MP 7,1 Waiting for Mac Pro 7,1 A1991 (no more)

[NY Guitarist]

I guess this new carrot/stick announcement is good for some Apple loyalists.

My workplace already jumped ship. So when a new Mac Pro comes out 'sometime not this year' we will still be 2 years away from replacing equipment, and having made the jump may not want to go back to Apple again.

 

[iMcLovin]

it's too late, and obviously they just started planning, so noone (not even apple) knows what next years Mac Pro will be or when it will be out. And if I know Apple right, they are perfectionist, the production will be delayed, so I would bet my dollar on 2019. Same for displays. Nothing is out yet. Doesnt matter who said they they will release any or not, fact is there's not much new under the sun except knowing that Apple will not cancel the Mac Pro line. - Which is good news I guess if you stuck with Apple as your pro machine and can hold out for 1-2 years more.

But shocking that apple actually have released their Roadmap for Mac Pros, this is completely new, and if it would become a common thing it would be good. But, I doubt it, I think this is only because they suddenly woke up and found out that neglecting it actually has a certain impact and since they all forgotten about it just briefly started, they had to do something to calm people down.

 

[Appleaker]

Yeah, its great, and i will try to not complain that much when it is basically good news, BUT:

Why next year? Why is Apple almost always 1 year away from their "amazing product pipeline" nowadays? Next year Skylake-EP and -W would have been out for quite some time (Apple have access to them now, atleast the -EP, so the manufacturing could start and be ready when Intel "release" the cpu to the public), and Vega would have been out for a while, TB3 would have been out for ages and still no Mac Pro with TB3 until then. They had 4 years to plan the next MP, it should have become available as soon as all the chips are available in middle of 2017, both CPU and GPU will be but Apple stubborn design group will drag out the release date all the way into the next year? And which time next year? Spring? Summer? I bet it will be in the fall or winter 2018.

Does this news give you guys that are on the fence about switching any confidence at all that Apple will pull through and offer you a stable platform with LTS for your business? Is the damage already done? Have to many people already switched so when Apple finally release a new Mac Pro in 2018, they could have lost so many customers already that there is just a tiny tiny minority of a minority left that will buy it and thanks to that, Apple will kill it altogether thanks to poor sales?

Yes, thanks Apple for listening on our battlecries for once but i hope its not to late, good luck, i am looking forward to the nnMP, i though; have already switched.

As I've said, they've been testing out new iterations for a while what we were told today expands on that point. They wanted to change the Mac Pro in ways that weren't thermally possible with that design. This certainly wasn't the only reason for the delays, although it's the only one they talked about. (Although they did iterate on the same design), they chose to create a new design that was future proof, allowing for future refreshes and user upgrades to be carried out easily. Because they intend for the next design to be VERY future proof (which this design was not), the redesign will take time. You must also think about the other priorities within the Mac teams and scheduling with other products such as their displays and other accessories.
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it's too late, and obviously they just started planning, so noone (not even apple) knows what next years Mac Pro will be or when it will be out. And if I know Apple right, they are perfectionist, the production will be delayed, so I would bet my dollar on 2019. Same for displays. Nothing is out yet. Doesnt matter who said they they will release any or not, fact is there's not much new under the sun except knowing that Apple will not cancel the Mac Pro line. - Which is good news I guess if you stuck with Apple as your pro machine and can hold out for 1-2 years more.

But shocking that apple actually have released their Roadmap for Mac Pros, this is completely new, and if it would become a common thing it would be good. But, I doubt it, I think this is only because they suddenly woke up and found out that neglecting it actually has a certain impact and since they all forgotten about it just briefly started, they had to do something to calm people down.

Joking aside, they never forgot about the Mac Pro and they weren't going to get rid of the line - a claim I've always tried to refute whenever I saw it. And they have not just started planning, they've been doing it for a very long time (including testing multiple models) although not for the entirety of the 3+ years this Mac Pro has been out. Apple have a somewhat clear plan of where the Mac Pro will go in the next iteration although as you can imagine, they can't be certain in when it'll be ready for release.

One thing they should have done earlier is the spec bump, I don't know of any reason why they chose not to do that earlier, perhaps because they didn't predict the direction the Mac Pro was going in and the time scale involved.

 

[askunk]

https://techcrunch.com/2017/04/04/apple-pushes-the-reset-button-on-the-mac-pro/

This has a bit more details. Apple is still taking care of Pro users who want power in their machines. With a bit of a delay... but it appears it does.

 

[Mago]

Hey, is not Aprils 1st ?

So, yeah the Mac Pro comes back, fisrt mild update, then a new Modular Mac Pro (farewell trash can, I loved you, but I need Power)

 

[fuchsdh]

I'm sad the can will be going away (personally it was perfect for my needs, and I would have bought one if they'd ever refreshed it in 2015 or 2016) but if Apple is only going to be upgrading every few years giving people a more versatile machine they can upgrade is pretty much what had to happen (and I'd rather Apple offer that than both SKUs, because I think everyone can agree they need to shave down their iOS and Mac product matrixes to something more sane.)

I'm also happy they straight-up told us this so people can make good buying decisions. Wondering if they'll drop the BTO upgrade prices on the Apple Store along with the core and GPU bump.

 

[shaunp]

I'm sad the can will be going away (personally it was perfect for my needs, and I would have bought one if they'd ever refreshed it in 2015 or 2016) but if Apple is only going to be upgrading every few years giving people a more versatile machine they can upgrade is pretty much what had to happen (and I'd rather Apple offer that than both SKUs, because I think everyone can agree they need to shave down their iOS and Mac product matrixes to something more sane.)

I'm also happy they straight-up told us this so people can make good buying decisions. Wondering if they'll drop the BTO upgrade prices on the Apple Store along with the core and GPU bump.

The trashcan design is nice if you need a minimalist workstation, it just ends up being messy if you need a load of storage. I think they should keep the design, but have an i7 in it, standard RAM, a gaming GPU and space for 2 PCI-e SSD's. Let it sit between the mini and the pro and just call it the Mac. They'd sell loads of them and plenty of people have been crying out for that if these forums are anything to go by.

 

[Mago]

I'm sad the can will be going away

Nothing said so far, maybe the next modular Mac Pro, still a trash can but one less constrained (1200W TDP) with Std GPU modules (MCM) or maybe with current GPU module but opened to 3rd party,a s nVidia).

I love this quote

“We’re working on it,” says Schiller. “We have a team working hard on it right now, and we want to architect it so that we can keep it fresh with regular improvements, and we’re committed to making it our highest-end, high throughput desktop system, designed for our demanding pro customers.

we will be doing a Pro display as well

My favorite

“And if we’ve had a pause in upgrades and updates on that, we’re sorry for that

 

[filmak]

Pat, MP it's not dead...

Manuel, have you heard? a new display for you...
and a modular system coming for all of us...

At last some good news!

 

[fuchsdh]

The trashcan design is nice if you need a minimalist workstation, it just ends up being messy if you need a load of storage. I think they should keep the design, but have an i7 in it, standard RAM, a gaming GPU and space for 2 PCI-e SSD's. Let it sit between the mini and the pro and just call it the Mac. They'd sell loads of them and plenty of people have been crying out for that if these forums are anything to go by.

Yeah, but the same problem occurs that Apple is talking about in their roundtable—we're talking a distinctly tiny percentage of users.

For my use case (graphics-intensive work, with storage handled by Dropbox, one NAS, and one DAS), the perfect Mac Pro would probably be something very similar to the size of the tube, with dual MXM GPUs and dual M.2 SSDs for upgrades (I only really need a single fast scratch disk for cache, so having that be internal would be best.) But even with a single GPU version, it seems clear that Apple miscalculated on devs willing to go whole-hog into multiple-GPU optimization and the result was a machine that wouldn't really fit the single powerful GPU people want.

Thanks to Apple, we now have some pretty good estimates for the pro market, and we now know the Mac Pro is ≤10% of the pro market itself. I can imagine that will jump somewhat if Apple releases a successor to the Mac Pro, since it's certainly shriveled in part by Apple's missteps rather than purely pro's use cases, but it's still a really tiny niche to try and target with a bunch of products. That's where having a relatively flexible system people can tailor works best, and it seems that is now Apple's conclusion as well.

Honestly as much as I love the mini, I think the sooner Apple gets back to the 4-quadrant product matrix for both its Mac and iOS lines, the better.

 

[filmak]

but I need Power

You mean Powah?

 

[fuchsdh]

I do think that if the nnMPs are assembled in China again (Phil wouldn't comment), that gives us a partial answer as to why it'll take them so long to roll out the successor machine.

 

[Neodym]

Cheesegrater reloaded or more stylish, like this concept?

 

[askunk]

Seems they want to go back to a single GPU option. Here is what, I think, is the best insight:

John Ternus, Apple’s VP of Hardware Engineering, explains.

I think one of the foundations of that system was the dual GPU architecture… and for certain workflows, certain classes of pro customers, that’s a great solution. But… to Phil’s point, “Pro” is so broad that it doesn’t necessarily fit all the needs of all the pros.

The way the system is architected, it just doesn’t lend itself to significant reconfiguration for somebody who might want a different combination of GPUs… That’s when we realized we had to take a step back and completely re-architect what we’re doing and build something that enables us to do these quick, regular updates and keep it current and keep it state of the art, and also allow a little more in terms of adaptability to the different needs of the different pro customers.


Federighi elaborates:

I think we designed ourselves into a bit of a thermal corner, if you will. We designed a system that we thought with the kind of GPUs that at the time we thought we needed, and that we thought we could well serve with a two GPU architecture… that that was the thermal limit we needed, or the thermal capacity we needed. But workloads didn’t materialize to fit that as broadly as we hoped.

Being able to put larger single GPUs required a different system architecture and more thermal capacity than that system was designed to accommodate. And so it became fairly difficult to adjust. At the same time, so many of our customers were moving to iMac that we saw a path to address many, many more of those that were finding themselves limited by Mac Pro through a next generation iMac.. And really put a lot of our energy behind that. [But,] while that [upgraded iMac] system is going to be fantastic for a huge number of customers — we want to do more.

 

[JesperA]

Cheesegrater reloaded or more stylish, like this concept?

I like the breadbox concept but with traditional ATX style layout for the GPU, so a thermal core for up to dual CPU:s and then a PCI "chamber" for graphic and other expansion cards. The breadbox concept have kinda odd cable management for traditional GPU:s

 

[askunk]

Vega! Vega! Vega! (+ Naples?) And maybe the option of using nVidia as well?
Damn... this thread is going to last. Better rename it with a 2018 date

 

[fuchsdh]

Cheesegrater reloaded or more stylish, like this concept?

That concept would never physically work, and is laughable at first blush, so no, not like that.

But I'm assuming it'll take more hints from the old Mac Pro while still being smaller. As they talk about, the thermal core is a pretty awesome bit of engineering but only fits a specific design. I'm not sure they can adapt that to something more modular.

Especially since they pointed out the dual GPU push fizzled, I'd be kind of surprised if they specifically made room for a second full-length GPU (I certainly doubt they'd offer a SKU for it like the 2010-2012 Pros.)

 

[rjtiedeman]

The prices have not changed on their web site so those of us who are are waiting for the bump will have to wait a little longer.

 

[askunk]

“There’s certain scientific loads that are very GPU intensive and they want to throw the largest GPU at it that they can,” says Federighi. “There are heavy 3D graphics [applications] or graphics and compute mixed loads. Those can be in VR, those can be in certain kinds of high end cinema production tasks where most of the software out there that’s been written to target those doesn’t know how to balance itself well across multiple GPUs but can scale across a single large GPU.”

They will go for a single GPU, very likely giving the chance for upgrades with new cards. Maybe they are waiting for PCI-E 4.0 to be published and go for a machine that could theoretically grow with time.

I think that they will then need just two panels to cool, instead of three, with quite different loads, unless they go only for 2S and put a couple of 130/145 W CPUs. We may expect them to go back to a rectangular shape, therefore that design is not that impossible. I wish, at least, it could be jet black

 

[Thunderbird]

 

[Mago]

To summarize:

Its more-less safe to speculate the Mac Pro 7.1 will be a simple upgrade to Xeon E5v3 and Dual Vega GPUs as top option, maybe wont include TB3 ports at All.

But Mac Pro 8,1 (waiting thread open soon) will be the Beast all We Dream.

I hope the MP8,1 to use ISA GPUs this will easy for Apple progressive upgrades and move the thermal issues responsability to the Manufacturer.

I Like the Bread Toaster -like Concept.

 

[askunk]

Its more-less safe to speculate the Mac Pro 7.1 will be a simple upgrade to Xeon E5v3 and Dual Vega GPUs as top option, maybe wont include TB3 ports at All.

I got that they will just take the 4cores option out and the D300, offering at lower prices the 6-8 and 12 core with D500 and D700.

 

[JMacHack]

I knew I wasn't wrong for keeping faith.

 

[askunk]

Which may be also the sign of the 7,1 being at least a 6 core (or 8 in case of a Naples implementation)?

 

[Mago]

Maybe they are waiting for PCI-E 4.0 to be published

PCIe4 will take longer to get to the Mac Pro, what they are waitng for are the New Xeon Skylake Architecture, whit this architecture (48PCIe3 lines) Apple Can Offer 2 GPU, 6 TB3, 1 NVMe, plus 10GBet, and Common socket with Intel Xeon Phi (enabling a Xeon-Phi mac or a 72 core Mac Pro for those who need CPU and not GPU compute).

However one thing thought for Apple would be to resign the GPU hardware control again, we know how they love to control what you can put inside th Mac, so this case a Modular Approac doesnt mean ISA GPU, maybe thy just rething the current Mac Pro on much higher TDP with an new Modular Thermal Core.

P.D. No body mention the Poor Mac Mini, R.I.P. Mac Mini.