MP 7,1 Waiting for Mac Pro 7,1 A1991 (no more)

[deconstruct60]

AMD stopped production of Fiji GPUs.

Because they ran out of money? ( AMD has limited funs to keep both the Fiji and Polaris in production. If there is a finite amount of money and can't pay for both? .... keep Fiji or Polaris in production? That is a pretty easy call. )

Inventory is too high? ( is the die mask going to evaporate if don't use it for a couple of months? Probably not. ) Even if AMD does have money if they are running a positive substantive inventory on Fiji chips ... STOP ... AMD's financials are crappy enough without some inventory bloat. ( Inventory bloat is what has been a major contributor to their problems over last 12-18 months. Making too much of what they can't sell. ). Flush the queue and then start wafer runs back up at the slower pace ( that isn't higher than demand. )

Remember if Apple would want Fiji, AMD would have to produce two of GPUs for each Mac Pro, regardless if it would be Fiji XT or Pro, or in any other way, shape or form of Fiji ASIC.

And how many new Mac Pros are shipping right now? None. So....

( not that it is in a Mac Pro, but the Mac Pro shows no signs of being a driver of demand at this point. )

Extremely odd though if in April AMD releases dual Fiji

http://www.anandtech.com/show/10279/amd-releases-radeon-pro-duo-fiji-350w-vr

and shuts down the whole line less than 3 months later. How did that product hit break even that fast? If not , yet even more hole digging on the negative cash flow and debt. ...... which is more an indicator of "broke" (and can not buy lots of wafers ) than some huge positive move.

If want the optimitics spin may mean that HBM 2 stuff is ahead of schedule.... at which point want to flush the inventory. ( AMD can't afford gobs of inventory. Low inventory means don't have to run huge fire sales to get rid of it. )

AMD does not produce the GPU anymore.

Even if AMD had a fab it wouldn't make sense to run wafer product didn't need in larger volumes in the near future.

 

[ManuelGomes]

http://www.anandtech.com/show/10437/samsung-sm961-price-and-availability-outlook

Double Polaris on nMP? Or triple?

 

[koyoot]

Because they ran out of money? ( AMD has limited funs to keep both the Fiji and Polaris in production. If there is a finite amount of money and can't pay for both? .... keep Fiji or Polaris in production? That is a pretty easy call. )

Inventory is too high? ( is the die mask going to evaporate if don't use it for a couple of months? Probably not. ) Even if AMD does have money if they are running a positive substantive inventory on Fiji chips ... STOP ... AMD's financials are crappy enough without some inventory bloat. ( Inventory bloat is what has been a major contributor to their problems over last 12-18 months. Making too much of what they can't sell. ). Flush the queue and then start wafer runs back up at the slower pace ( that isn't higher than demand. )



And how many new Mac Pros are shipping right now? None. So....

( not that it is in a Mac Pro, but the Mac Pro shows no signs of being a driver of demand at this point. )

Extremely odd though if in April AMD releases dual Fiji

http://www.anandtech.com/show/10279/amd-releases-radeon-pro-duo-fiji-350w-vr

and shuts down the whole line less than 3 months later. How did that product hit break even that fast? If not , yet even more hole digging on the negative cash flow and debt. ...... which is more an indicator of "broke" (and can not buy lots of wafers ) than some huge positive move.

If want the optimitics spin may mean that HBM 2 stuff is ahead of schedule.... at which point want to flush the inventory. ( AMD can't afford gobs of inventory. Low inventory means don't have to run huge fire sales to get rid of it. )



Even if AMD had a fab it wouldn't make sense to run wafer product didn't need in larger volumes in the near future.

After thinking about this:
Information came from retail and was about Fury Nano, Fury, Fury X chips.

AMD offers Fiji not only there but also in server S9300X2, and like you said: Pro Duo.

Maybe AMD does not accept orders for retail chips of Fiji(Fury Nano, Fury, Fury X)?

 

[Draeconis]

There have been a lot of things holding a new Mac Pro back. I would have firmly bet on a 7,1 using Fiji, but given koyoot's information, this seems less and less likely. I can't see any information online about this, apart from OcUK having almost no stock of the R9 Nano (loads of the Pro Duo though!).

Were AMD manufacturing the D300/500/700 series cards though? Or was this fabbed by Apple? AMD may well have stopped producing Fiji for the R9 Nano/Fury X/Pro Duo series, but does that strictly mean they have halted any and all Fiji production, or could Apple have asked them to focus purely on manufacturing their bespoke PCBs for the D300/500/700 successors? They've certainly negotiated contracts like that before for other things.

As I've pointed out in other threads; historically the Mac Pro has (almost) always been at least 2 years behind in GPU technology. R9 Nano was released nearly a year ago, so based on previous product decisions, I'd still assume it's more likely any new Mac Pro would be based around this card.

Apple I think are quite keen to not have another Apple Cube moment again, although some complains online certainly paint the 2013 redesign in a poor light; mass GPU failures etc.

While they might usually be behind with GPUs, I'd assume that the SM961 (or an Apple OEM equivalent) is almost a given.

CPU-wise, Apple have historically released products with newly released (or sometimes even before they're announced) CPUs from Intel, so I don't see much chance of the 7,1 not getting some E5 v4 love.

PSU-wise, I'd like to see a little innovation here. Apple basically invented the AC switching PSU for modern PCs; surely they can devote some of their rather staggering R&D budget on refining and improving power supplies.

TB3 is also kind of a given. eGPU support is interesting, though probably not with the Mac Pro in mind.

 

[mattspace]

TB3 is also kind of a given. eGPU support is interesting, though probably not with the Mac Pro in mind.

Non-display MFi-style FCPX-Certified Accelerator boxes would be my bet as a Mac Pro accessory.

 

[Mago]

AMD offers Fiji not only there but also in server S9300X2, and like you said: Pro Duo.

It's very likely AMD is reading a Dual-Polaris GPU to replace these, and given it high cost they surely should have a huge inventory to hold the dual-polaris gpu release.
[doublepost=1466596174][/doublepost]

http://www.anandtech.com/show/10437/samsung-sm961-price-and-availability-outlook

Double Polaris on nMP? Or triple?

Apple has it own SSD controllers.
[doublepost=1466596561][/doublepost]

Apple basically invented the AC switching PSU for modern PCs;

That's not accurate, Apple maybe was the first on sell a Desktop w/ an Switching PSU, the First one was used on an IBM Laptop, when those things cost more than a compact car, Neither Apple developed the technology, as now the trend is to switch to AC->DC-DC converters (as on New Cellphone Charger).

 

[ManuelGomes]

Yeah, but let's see if they'll use it. I'm betting they'll use an off-the-shelf solution still. Unless they optimize it for the short lane count.
[doublepost=1466596766][/doublepost]Yeah, but let's see if they'll use it. I'm betting they'll use an off-the-shelf solution still. Unless they optimize it for the short lane count. Having dual SSDs in 4 lanes that is. Maybe they can tweak the controller or the design so not to take a huge hit. Although, 2 lanes should be good for most anyway, not ideal, but ok.

 

[radus]

until last year we had only macs - but nowadays they are not worth the money, I bougt a customized PC with nvme ssd and pcie ssd and a big sata ssd, gti 980 graphic card, 6-Core Processor and today I put in it 64 gb ddr4 mem for 220 euro.
I am happy with windows 10 pro, VM's for linux and solaris --- everything is very fast and stable, easy to use.

no more waiting, no more 4k problems, fast silent system -- and I will transfer this knowledge to my company not buying Macs anymore

 

[Mago]

Yeah, but let's see if they'll use it. I'm betting they'll use an off-the-shelf solution still. Unless they optimize it for the short lane count.
[doublepost=1466596766][/doublepost]Yeah, but let's see if they'll use it. I'm betting they'll use an off-the-shelf solution still. Unless they optimize it for the short lane count. Having dual SSDs in 4 lanes that is. Maybe they can tweak the controller or the design so not to take a huge hit. Although, 2 lanes should be good for most anyway, not ideal, but ok.

Leaks suggest the nnMP to have dual PCIE2 NVMe (the same pinout as current, but using two cards each at 4x lines at each GPU not only at GPU1).
[doublepost=1466603387][/doublepost]

-- and I will transfer this knowledge to my company not buying Macs anymore

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz....

We are aware on both you write and much more, If you are in discomfort with Apple, I suggest you to switch to a PC platform but instead running Wincrap, run a KVM linux hipervisor, on top of this you can run macOS (with an Valid SysID), Linux, and Wincrap, Isolated and on a much more efficient, stable and secure setup.

BTW I'll stay on Apple as long *nux is functional enoug to be more productive on It ( I ran ubuntu 16.04 on my Mac Pro thru Bootcamp, due OpenCL and Intel PE), 3rd party systems based on PC/Commodity maybe cheaper or faster but dont bring me all macOS advantages.

 

[Roykor]

frontpage of Macrumors from the last periode:

ios 10: taking a closer look (whaaaaa)
ios 10 redesigned apple music experience (woowww)
More ios 10 news about some Beta stuff
iphone news to focus on headphone fack removal!
9.3 ios beta seeds to developers
Apple pay stuff for there mobile divces
Former Apple employes team up for rear vision camera (cars)
watchos 3 news.. (we want more!!!)
iPhone 7 rumores to ship with standard 3.5 earpods (wwoaaawwww)
iPhone 7 has Dual Sim....
-- and on--- and on---- and on.......

Nothing about Macs, nothing about mac Pro stuff. I have respect for the hardcore here, who will defend it till the end!

Keep the faith!

p.s., I am teasing you peeps a bit... but, still sad tho

 

[ManuelGomes]

That would be great, RAID maybe.
But I'm not so sure.
Makes sense to have equal GPU cards, less SKUs, but I'll wait to be sure.
It will make the online configurator less simple, and I believe Apple wants to stick to having simpler configurations, but let's hope not.
And taking the full 8 PCIe 2 lanes from the PCH seems to me unlikely, I don't see them moving everything else (GbE, WiFi and BT) to internal USB, but I'm hoping that is exactly what they'll do.
I'm worried about Fiji though, if they put Fiji in it will be disappointing, to me at least. I'd rather have Polaris, and Vega even if later on. Polaris is quite enough for me, and looks really good. It seems NDA will expire earlier, this Friday if I'm not mistaken, instead of the 29th.

 

[koyoot]

It's very likely AMD is reading a Dual-Polaris GPU to replace these, and given it high cost they surely should have a huge inventory to hold the dual-polaris gpu release.

I have confirmed. False alarm. Fiji is still produced for professional market. Consumer is cut off.

 

[Ph.D.]

It might be best to avoid the term "leaks." I don't think we have seen any real "leaks" yet, and we're not likely to see any.

What we have so far, to my eye, is unfounded "rumor" and "speculation." This includes that new thread about a fabulous X-Mac that's just around the corner.

Enjoy yourselves, of course, but an echo chamber of rumor and speculation does not magically turn into fact.

 

[lowendlinux]

It might be best to avoid the term "leaks." I don't think we have seen any real "leaks" yet, and we're not likely to see any.

What we have so far, to my eye, is unfounded "rumor" and "speculation." This includes that new thread about a fabulous X-Mac that's just around the corner.

Of course, enjoy yourselves, but an echo chamber of rumor and speculation does not magically turn into fact.

But what are people supposed to talk about if we don't talk about rumors, leaks, or internet gossip?

 

[ManuelGomes]

That would be great, RAID maybe.
But I'm not so sure.
Makes sense to have equal GPU cards, less SKUs, but I'll wait to be sure.
It will make the online configurator less simple, and I believe Apple wants to stick to having simpler configurations, but let's hope not.
And taking the full 8 PCIe 2 lanes from the PCH seems to me unlikely, I don't see them moving everything else (GbE, WiFi and BT) to internal USB, but I'm hoping that is exactly what they'll do.
I'm worried about Fiji though, if they put Fiji in it will be disappointing, to me at least. I'd rather have Polaris, and Vega even if later on. Polaris is quite enough for me, and looks really good. It seems NDA will expire earlier, this Friday if I'm not mistaken, instead of the 29th.

 

[koyoot]

Manuel, something for you: It looks like Polaris may be disappointing on the front of compute capabilities:

We have received a tip from a reader claiming he was able to run an Ethereum hashrate test on the upcoming AMD Radeon RX 480 GPUs providing us with a photo proof that we are publishing here. Do note that for the moment we cannot confirm this result for sure, but it does seems legit enough for us to consider it as a highly possible. Unfortunately the hashrate that is apparently achieved at stock frequencies is a bit disappointing at just around 24 MHS for Ethereum Dagger-Hashimoto mining with about 100W, we are also told that with a memory overclock 26-28 MHS are possible with about 120W of power usage. If these results turn out to be true the Radeon RX 480 would not be that great for mining Ethereum as we suspected recently. On the other hand the RX 470 could end up being a much more interesting choice for low power Ethereum mining if it manages to achieve the same hashrate, but at a better price when it hits the markets sometime next month. Guess we’ll have to wait a bit more to see confirmations if this is the actual hashrate for RX 480 mining Ethereum, but with the 256-bit memory bus these results unfortunately are on track with the pessimistic expectations we already had instead of the optimistic version…

Everything in crypto mining is based on compute capabilities of GPUs. It is 1.3 MH rate higher than R9 290X.

On the other hand... it is not bad...

I still would prefer Fiji chips. On graphics side they may be worse than Polaris, that is no question. It still has enough horsepower to outperform it. At stock clocks it looks like Polaris will not be any faster than Fiji.

From compute side - I would prefer Fiji. From feature side... hmmm, that is tough question.

 

[radus]

Mago --> Nice to hear you are " awawe " ...

I bought from Apple for more then 150 000 $ so I am not in discomfort with Apple but I am in discomfort with their current products for Pro's ...

Windows 10 pro is much much better then I thought, it is not " crap "

 

[ManuelGomes]

Seems RX480 will have no delivery problems on launch. Let's wait and see it it's so.

http://wccftech.com/amd-rx-480-pre-order-in-stock/

http://wccftech.com/radeon-rx-480-thermal-tests-leak/

http://videocardz.com/61340/amd-radeon-rx-480-rumors-part-4


Also, another beta for .6
[doublepost=1466607192][/doublepost]koyoot, maybe the drivers aren't tuned yet. Or maybe it's just that one app.
Anyway, going back to Fiji, even if more compute capable, seems odd. I'd prefer the newer stuff any day, with the enhanced video capabilities. And still going with 28nm tech these days seems meh. Considering the power constrains in the nMP, even worse. Although it could have an upgraded PSU as rumored.
But I'd still prefer a lower powered GPU like Polaris, it's enough for me.
Fiji could always be an eGPU for those who need the extra humpf...

 

[linuxcooldude]

frontpage of Macrumors from the last periode:

ios 10: taking a closer look (whaaaaa)
ios 10 redesigned apple music experience (woowww)
More ios 10 news about some Beta stuff
iphone news to focus on headphone fack removal!
9.3 ios beta seeds to developers
Apple pay stuff for there mobile divces
Former Apple employes team up for rear vision camera (cars)
watchos 3 news.. (we want more!!!)
iPhone 7 rumores to ship with standard 3.5 earpods (wwoaaawwww)
iPhone 7 has Dual Sim....
-- and on--- and on---- and on.......

Nothing about Macs, nothing about mac Pro stuff. I have respect for the hardcore here, who will defend it till the end!

Keep the faith!

p.s., I am teasing you peeps a bit... but, still sad tho

Pro users still being niche from 30 years ago, consumers moving away from computers and more to mobile. Nothing new here.

 

[filmak]

I have confirmed. False alarm. Fiji is still produced for professional market. Consumer is cut off.

very nice of you... thanks

 

[Draeconis]

I have confirmed. False alarm. Fiji is still produced for professional market. Consumer is cut off.

So, that's a thing. Now if they could only make the SFF PSU 550w..

 

[Mago]

And taking the full 8 PCIe 2 lanes from the PCH seems to me unlikely, I don't see them moving everything else (GbE, WiFi and BT) to internal USB, but I'm hoping that is exactly what they'll do.

the nMP's GbE is wired to the PXEs to avoid moving extra lines to the back panel, with same arrangement on the nnMP there is no difference just a bit more Bandwidth fight, and for BT/WiFi having USB3 available at the PCH (and not requiring PCIe lines) its logical Apple wire this to USB3 it's a common practice, maybe not at apple.

 

[ManuelGomes]

Mago, either GbE port on the nMP takes one lane on the PCH, check out the diagram.
So does the WiFi/BT module.
1 lane left unused.
I can see it going USB this time around but it's not the ideal solution.

 

[Mago]

Mago, either GbE port on the nMP takes one lane on the PCH, check out the diagram.
So does the WiFi/BT module.
1 lane left unused.
I can see it going USB this time around but it's not the ideal solution.

No line is taken if you wire the GbE to the Back's panel PEX Switch as on the current nMP(along USB3 and TB2), you are talking to PCH's integrated GbE, Apple dont use it since it will require to wire it to th back panel, also the PCH provides only a Single GbE, instead Apple wires a Dual GbE to the Back's panel PCH (the same where TB controller are wired), and neither the USB or the SATA ports on the PCH account on PCIe lines, only "radical" change would bee wiring WIFI/BT to an internal USB3.

 

[Flint Ironstag]

.

TB3 is also kind of a given. eGPU support is interesting, though probably not with the Mac Pro in mind.

I disagree here - TB3 is absolutely a given, however, eGPU support is extremely interesting. Lots of workloads will benefit. For one instance, password auditing: the higher CPU core count, and the more GPUs I can stuff in an external enclosure the better. A 4 core iMac that will throttle due to thermal limitations after 3 minutes is doing me no good. A nMP with 12+ cores and a couple of boxes stuffed with 1080s is a different beast.