MP 7,1 Waiting for Mac Pro 7,1 A1991 (no more)

[SoyCapitanSoyCapitan]

Well well two things have appeared on the radar

- OS loading screen in Sierra is now visible on PC graphics cards. Almost the entire booting process can be seen on my RX 470.

- Apple is building kernel level support for ARM architecture in macOS

It indicates that Apple will produce ARM based computers and also that macOS x86 could become available to install on PCs

I predict they will drop iTunes for Windows and recommend installing macOS for people who want to sync their iOS devices. Already QuickTime for Windows has been killed.

Then finally you will see companies develop better macOS drivers for hardware upgrades.

 

[Mago]

they're just repeating the exit strategy from back in the ppc days: you want to be ready to move to ARM when Intel drops the bucket, and they've already indicated their focus is no longer on the desktop.

Or maybe as backup strategy just in case AMD's Zen doesn't deliver its promise and becomes another 'dozer.

But as cited above Apple' s bet on IoT (and general home automation) it's clearer than its interest on VR/AR, and while iCloud it's an key for IoT there still many people that don't believe on the cloud and the host your 'own cloud" concept has a natural appeal.

What I see is at some point next year Apple should release either an beefier Time capsule on macOS server (after APFS is ready) and/or some rack optimized macOS server both running on ARM.

An dual boot iPad has no sense even with enough apps it will be painfully slow Mac.

And an ARM MacBook would be also another sad story of low performance and no apps, and impossible it to compete with sub 200$ chromebooks unless aimed at schools and Apple assuming the losses by selling it at competitive prices.

Also an macOS server appliance or rack will shrink the mac mini market even further, so unlikely Apple to update the mini if some ARM Server is planned.

So to me ARM on MacOS means:

* a server appliance to replace time capsule and bring support to the IoT.
* a farm optimized server either for Apple cloud services or even for commercial/pro users (it depends how many cores include that Hurricane cpu).
* an educational MacBook.
* the dead of the Mac mini server (surely the entire Mac mini line)

 

[Mago]

Well well two things have appeared on the radar

- OS loading screen in Sierra is now visible on PC graphics cards. Almost the entire booting process can be seen on my RX 470.

[....]

It indicates that Apple will produce ARM based computers and also that macOS x86 could become available to install on PCs.

This will happen when Apple decides to give up the pc business...

. About the boot screen.. I don't remember clearly, but I mean this happened before with earlier Intel Macs w/o integrated GPU.

 

[SoyCapitanSoyCapitan]

This will happen when Apple decides to give up the pc business...

. About the boot screen.. I don't remember clearly, but I mean this happened before with earlier Intel Macs w/o integrated GPU.

A PC company that updates its computers with increasing rarity has effectively given up its traditional business and is looking in a new direction. It's no longer Apple Computer for a reason, this is becoming clearer daily.

 

[Mago]

A PC company that updates its computers with increasing rarity has effectively given up its traditional business and is looking in a new direction. It's no longer Apple Computer for a reason, this is becoming clearer daily.

This will happen when Carly Fiorina get in possession of Tim Cook's soul...

 

[fuchsdh]

A late October event is basically a given, since they aren't going to wait any longer. That's basically the last minute for holiday sales. i still doubt we're going to get a full iOS/WWDC-style event though.

 

[fastlanephil]

An article about why the Mac could be going to ARM soon.

https://www.macobserver.com/columns...ce-mounting-apple-will-convert-macs-arm-cpus/

 

[koyoot]

An article about why the Mac could be going to ARM soon.

https://www.macobserver.com/columns...ce-mounting-apple-will-convert-macs-arm-cpus/

http://semiaccurate.com/2011/05/05/apple-dumps-intel-from-laptop-lines/

2011 year. Look at the specific line about Fab capacity at GlobalFoundries, Samsung and TSMC. And look at this: http://semiaccurate.com/?s=Apple+has+a+Fab
5 articles, from much further in time period.

The thing is: Moving Macbook's to ARM is ridiculous from every single point of view. They would automatically become iPad's.

As I have said in Macbook Pro Skylake thread: the ARM CPU is for TouchID, and APFS and integrated security of the data stored.

 

[Mago]

As I have said in Macbook Pro Skylake thread: the ARM CPU is for TouchID, and APFS and integrated security of the data stored.

Sorry friend you're totally lost, you don't need an ARM Kernel header to support ARM Peripherals, even if those peripherals run in kernel mode (which I doubt).

PD. The MacObsever seems to me the most moronic and fanatic (not to said dumbest) MacBlog.

 

[fastlanephil]

The Mac Observer article says that the MacBook Pro released this October will use Skylake. Their thought is that Apple might move the Mac line to ARM in 2017. What that Mac line will consist of is also a question.

 

[Mago]

The Mac Observer article says that the MacBook Pro released this October will use Skylake. Their thought is that Apple might move the Mac line to ARM in 2017. What that Mac line will consist of is also a question.

Simple: MacObserver editors Knows about Hardware more less the same Dr Dre Knows about, I just laugh reading the article, the most exhilarating part was the "2017 ARM Mac Pro" ehh?... ohh my god. Totally supine.

Switching from Intel to ARM is not as easy as from PowerPC to Intel:

1st Intel CPU easy outpaced PowerPC in performance, not 1.1 eve 4x faster then than the closest PowerPC.
2nd Emulating a PowerPC on Intel its much more easier than an x86 on ARM, by order of magnitude, even today there is no Linux Virtual Machine that allow to virtualize x86 cpu on ARM platforms, if it doesn't exist yet on Linux on macOS would take more time.

to educate about virtualization is convenient to read https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_platform_virtualization_software

Modern Virtualization relies on specific instruction ser absent on ARM architecture, to develop both the virtualization host and ARM cpu will be an expensive endeavor, I don't even consider feasible -n practical terms- yet.

Apple to switch to ARM should introduce ARM macs (and/or servers) for vertical markets and wait for Software optimized for those macs, once there is enough macOS apps supporting ARM the release ARM Macs to the Mainstream.

So i consider an First move from Applet into ARM PCs will target Headless Servers(nas/racks-cloud-farms) and Educational PCs (same as Chomebooks).

 

[koyoot]

Sorry friend you're totally lost, you don't need an ARM Kernel header to support ARM Peripherals, even if those peripherals run in kernel mode (which I doubt).

PD. The MacObsever seems to me the most moronic and fanatic (not to said dumbest) MacBlog.

TouchID? You need secured enclave, and that is related to the CPU. And the CPU can work in tandem with... OLED touchpad.

Something has to display, and process the data and touch input on touch hardware. And for that you need CPU. What is better way to integrate ALL of this?

And Applications for Touch Panel in MacBooks, keyboards would need to be compiled for ARM in this view.

I have to say. This feature can have dozens of uses in this view...

 

[Mago]

TouchID? You need secured enclave, and that is related to the CPU. And the CPU can work in tandem with... OLED touchpad.

Something has to display, and process the data and touch input on touch hardware. And for that you need CPU. What is better way to integrate this?

You still lost on how Security Enclave Works, none needs to run on the OS Kernel, as much it will run at the SMC.

Security Enclave has it's very own micro-OS and its basically an FIFO stack once you introduce the right data it releases the key to decipher the storage or other keys related to other functions, in no-way SE is intended to run main OS code (and actually this is an safety feature).

 

[koyoot]

You still lost on how Security Enclave Works, none needs to run on the OS Kernel, as much it will run at the SMC.

Security Enclave has it's very own micro-OS and its basically an FIFO stack once you introduce the right data it releases the key to decipher the storage or other keys related to other functions, in no-way SE is intended to run main OS code (and actually this is an safety feature).

Thats exactly what happens in the start up of the computer.

There is no indication that whole applications are made for ARM, so far, nor does the whole system built around ARM architecture.

 

[Mago]

Thats exactly what happens in the start up of the computer.

At Startup the SMC (which rigth now uses an ARM cpu in the mac you are touching) reads the PRAM and System Register, if you have some Hot-Key combinations or the Disk is encripted it prompts you with an GUI that resembles macOS but isnt, the with your data it load (decyphering) macOS or some services from the storage or the network, adding touch ID and SE it's like to add another keyboard and data storage.

 

[ManuelGomes]

I'd say more like a new Mini Home Server, based on A10 or A10X, running macOS.

I'm curious, if indeed rMBP will come with the Touch Strip and all seems to point that way, will we also have a new keyboard with it? Hope so.

It's too early for ARM to replace x86.
As much as I'd like to see going back to RISC, ARM isn't it yet.

 

[mathpunk]

The Mac Observer article says that the MacBook Pro released this October will use Skylake. Their thought is that Apple might move the Mac line to ARM in 2017. What that Mac line will consist of is also a question.

I think there might be something to this. It would explain a lot of things, such as the long delays for Mac updates and the move to the Metal graphics+compute API. It also might explain the nMP design: if you can offload much of the compute-intensive work to the GPUs, why not just design a server-class 8-16 (or more) core custom ARM processor paired with two (or more) compute-capable GPUs?

 

[Zarniwoop]

You still lost on how Security Enclave Works, none needs to run on the OS Kernel, as much it will run at the SMC.

Broaden your view; a Mac with ARM and Intel/AMD will run TWO OS's in one machine same time. ARM is running an OS, x86 chip second. That's how they'll create the new security features. Intel CPU does not have direct access to IO & TouchID. It has to ask the ARM chip to do the magic, which is working like an immigration officer at Passport booth.

This is not a new approach at all. Just look how they've created Nintendo Wii U. Pure ingenuity, what they can do with un underperforming hardware when done right. It's basically running IBM G4 smp and ATI HD4850 with 32MB dram and 2GB system ram. Still it runs Mario Kart 8 60fps on tv and a second screen in the controller. And there's ARM processor doing exactly same as what I described above; running a separate system in same device.

 

[Mago]

Broaden your view; a Mac with ARM and Intel/AMD will run TWO OS's in one machine same time. ARM is running on OS, x86 chip second.

Nope.

Security enclave is defined as a peripheral, its cpu run its own micro-OS (SE actually is another ARM core fully independent from OS exposed cores) and comunicates with the main system as another peripheral with FIFO I/O, there is no two cpu running or watching the same OS, there are just an Peripheral device installed inside a CPU, in iOS SE is part of the main CPU (chich run iOS) in macOS/x86 it necesarily run as a peripheral, the ideal one is the SMC (the peripheral that's manage the mac and is reponsible to Load macOS, decrypt storage, handle boot keyboard commands), current SMC is ARM based (as surely is from Day-0), SMC and SE actually dont run an OS in particular (even mBed), it's like an arduino it just run some routines then sleep until its wakeup on some event, an SE-Enhanced SMC will remain exactly the same.

 

[Zarniwoop]

Nope.

Security enclave is defined as a peripheral, its cpu run its own micro-OS (SE actually is another ARM core fully independent from OS exposed cores) and comunicates with the main system as another peripheral with FIFO I/O, there is no two cpu running or watching the same OS.

Read again what I wrote. There're two independent OS's. One run on ARM, second on x86. And for x86, ARM is like a peripheral like you said.

 

[Mago]

Read again what I wrote. There're two independent OS's. One run on ARM, second on x86. And for x86, ARM is like a peripheral like you said.

Ok but both OS aren't the same only macOS is on the x86 side.

While I consider it unlikely a possibility is that thst arm cpu is running a stripped down MacOS Sierra with only the basic emergency tools for advanced richer recovery features while providing an native environment for security enclave. But I consider it too overkill (while on high end pc I've saw something similar as some bios load a mini Linux distribution from Rom or flash with basic capabilities as backup OS or as instant on services (not needed now that every system boot from ssd).

Let's see.

My choices as first ARM powered Mac are a server (either a NAS appliance or 1U) and a educational MacBook where cost and sustainability are prime and software availability not a nightmare (some school IT managers actually think that's a feature...)

Those are things Apple actually needs an true macOS server cheap and power efficient (as most Mac environment has some nas but not a time capsule) , and and a MacBook where kids get in touch with Apple ecosystem (right now Google/Linux monopolize the educational market, those 90% of the kids are now in touch with chrome (android) and Linux, but not an Apple device this will drive their future platform preferences)

 

[ManuelGomes]

AMD has an ARM Trust Zone core embedded in their CPU/APUs.
Pro APUs launched today by the way.
[doublepost=1475504878][/doublepost]While this means nothing for the nMP Kaby Lake Xeons E3-1200 will be out in Q1'17.
Too bad the "real" Xeons won't be out that soon.
[doublepost=1475505621][/doublepost]Kaby Lake (desktop parts) seem to have a huge gain over Sky Lake, if you believe the leaks.
40% single thread and 20% multi thread.
If this is true, it's awesome.
But salt is advisable, came from WCCFTech.
[doublepost=1475506830][/doublepost]Or maybe the new rumored 2017 iPads will run macOS?! Kidding

Best Buy has an add (maybe a mistake) of a new iMac with 7th gen Intel processor (Kaby Lake). If this is true, maybe the new rMBP will also get KBL.

 

[koyoot]

AMD has an ARM Trust Zone core embedded in their CPU/APUs.
Pro APUs launched today by the way.
[doublepost=1475504878][/doublepost]While this means nothing for the nMP Kaby Lake Xeons E3-1200 will be out in Q1'17.
Too bad the "real" Xeons won't be out that soon.
[doublepost=1475505621][/doublepost]Kaby Lake (desktop parts) seem to have a huge gain over Sky Lake, if you believe the leaks.
40% single thread and 20% multi thread.
If this is true, it's awesome.
But salt is advisable, came from WCCFTech.
[doublepost=1475506830][/doublepost]Or maybe the new rumored 2017 iPads will run macOS?! Kidding

Best Buy has an add (maybe a mistake) of a new iMac with 7th gen Intel processor (Kaby Lake). If this is true, maybe the new rMBP will also get KBL.

Geekbench 4 scores show that performance is 7% better on Kaby Lake, and all is due to increased core clock 4.2 GHz vs 4.0 GHz.

 

[ManuelGomes]

Thanx. It looked too good to be true, since it's supposed to be a tune up only.
I wonder where those scores came from?

 

[JimGoshorn]

Or maybe the new rumored 2017 iPads will run macOS?! Kidding

That might not be as absurd as it sounds. Windows 10 works on phones, tablets, laptops and desktops. Apple has been bringing iOS type features to Macs. They added continuity between devices and Macs. Now with their new file system, all devices will share a common format.

Things that make you go hmmmmm