MP 7,1 Waiting for Mac Pro 7,1 A1991 (no more)

[Joe The Dragon]

I'd say the DNG's predictions (or leaks) are quite spot on, if it really comes in the near future. Apart from the HBM2 claim on Polaris of course. I could see D310 with 4GB GDDR5, D510 with 8GB of GDDR5(X if supported) and Vega 10 with HBM2. Since Vega 11 seems to be the replacement for Polaris 10 next year, I don't think we'll see it there. Only one pure compute GPU seems right, for those who actually need it.
Broadwell-EP seems to be the CPU of choice, lacking anything else at the moment and the near future.
But C610 will hardly handle it all with grace. Doing the math it's a heck of a bottleneck. 32 lanes are taken by the GPUs. The remaining 8 will go to the 2 TB3 controllers. Will the 6 USB-C ports only get USB 3.1 Gen.1 speeds? Probably, but then no DP 1.3 out of them. Where will the 10GbE ports come out of? Switched with TB3? And both SSDs?

you can put an pci-e switch on the video cards and feed the switch with one X16 link.

X16 switched to 3-4 TB 3 buses + USB 3.1 + maybe 1 10 gib nic?

X8 switched to 2 X4 storage ports?

the DMI link can take networking / sound / etc.

 

[ManuelGomes]

Ideally we'd be getting Skylake-W with Basin Falls in nMP but that could be well far off. That's up to 48 PCIe lanes, Socket R (2061), 4ch mem, Kaby Lake PCH (20 PCIe 3 lanes, 10 USB 3.0 ports).
That would do it.
But C612 has 8 PCIe 2 lanes, maybe for both SSDs. But then the GbE controller is gone. 6 USB 3.0 ports that could have USB-C sockets but Gen. 1 speeds only. The chipset is supposed to have Flexible IO, so Apple could ditch the SATA functionality to get more lanes, since it's not used, maybe for the 2 GbE controllers. WiFi/BT could be also there or on USB2.
No, 6 USB3 and 8 PCIe2 is the max, the remaining SATA ports are fixed.
[doublepost=1477339197][/doublepost]Joe, that's nice and all but where on earth would you put all those switches? Remember, it's already camped in there, and switches (and additional controllers) take not only space but power. And they aren't miracle makers, there's competition for bandwidth. They used a switch on the 6,1 already, for the TB2 ports and SSD.
And I don't see them using only x16 for both GPUs, do you?
I'm not saying it won't happen, but...

 

[Joe The Dragon]

unless they up the DMI link even if Kaby Lake PCH had 100 pci-e lanes they will still all over the 3.0 X4 dmi link.


Now AMD zen may have 16+16+4 3.0 pci-e with all chipset stuff having it's own pci-e / links on top of that. Aka no stuffing network , usb, sata , etc all over an limited dmi link.


now can that Intel chip spit an x16 link to x8 x8 without an switch?

 

[ManuelGomes]

The real heavy stuff needs to be on the CPU.
DMI is a bottleneck but at least KBL is rated as PCIe 3, X99 is like PCIe2.
Zen seems to have most of the PCH integrated.
You might be able to split the links into smaller chunks, but I guess not. Only x16 x16 x8 I believe.

 

[Joe The Dragon]

If the hardware can do PCI-E Bifurcation they it should be easy to have video at x8 x8 but switched x16 x16 from an x16 link can be better overall.

 

[AidenShaw]

If the hardware can do PCI-E Bifurcation they it should be easy to have video at x8 x8 but switched x16 x16 from an x16 link can be better overall.

Note the architecture of the GDX-1....

 

[Mago]

C610 will hardly handle it all with grace. Doing the math it's a heck of a bottleneck. 32 lanes are taken by the GPUs. The remaining 8 will go to the 2 TB3 controllers. Will the 6 USB-C ports only get USB 3.1 Gen.1 speeds? Probably, but then no DP 1.3 out of them. Where will the 10GbE ports come out of? Switched with TB3? And both SSDs?

There are many ways to deal with it.

My favorite is to multiplex the remaining 8 PCIE3 lines for 2-3 TB3 controllers, 2 2.5/10 GB Ethernet + USB3.1, hook the 2 SSD to the PCH (dual Pcie2-NVME),even keeps the line trace moreless the same layout as the current nMP (pcie2-SSD, PCIe3-MUX-TB2-LAN-USB).

Another way is to use only 8 PCIe3 lines on GPU2, and 8 for 2x tb3 8 for a dual PCIe3 NVMe, LAN, USB3 other perpheral hooked to the PCH, even an legacy TB2 header.

 

[ManuelGomes]

I could see it with a couple of switches, one for 2 TB3 controllers, another for 2 10GbE + USB 3.1 Gen.2 indeed. Both SSDs out of PCH. Maybe some legacy USB3. LAN was not muxed on the CPU lanes, both are on the PCH.
I don't think Apple will cut on GPU lane though.
But I don't think we'll get 10GbE yet, only with USB-C adapters I guess if we get USB 3.1 Gen.2.
Or one SSD paired with 10GbE and USB 3.1.

 

[Mago]

My "impossible" whish list for next event:

1. Xeon Based Pro Machines (iMac, Macbook Pro), in Space Black o JetBlack.
2. An Apple-NAS based on macOS Server and ARM-Hurricane architecture, full on SSD/2.5 HDD compact not bigger than a mac mini but loaded wih 4-5 HDD/SDD and 10GB Eth.
3. A Mac Pro with a SINGLE compute/pro nVidia Pascal GP100, even a Single GPU on 300W tdp will do much more than 2 RX480, also leaves enough PCIe3 lines free for 3 TB3 Headers+Dual PCIe3 NVMe+dual 10G Ethernet, W/O Multiplexing, also use the PCH PCIE2 for 2 TB2 legacy headers ( 6 TB3+2 TB2+4 USB-C ).
   
4. Tim Cook announcing to split Apple among Apple Computer, Apple Consumer Electronics and Apple Entertainment.

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But I don't think we'll get 10GbE yet

Actually seems the industry is aligned among the new 2.5GB Eth STD seems the new Base Ethernet STD, dont get scared to see it on the new Macs that still support native Ethernet ports.

 

[archimacpro]

Here's a basic question, which I can't fathom, due to me not being a tekkie.
I have the current Macpro, 6 core/ 16gb/1TB.
Mainly use it for Archicad & Indesign.
How much quicker is the next new Mac pro likely to be?

 

[aaronhead14]

Here's a basic question, which I can't fathom, due to me not being a tekkie.
I have the current Macpro, 6 core/ 16gb/1TB.
Mainly use it for Archicad & Indesign.
How much quicker is the next new Mac pro likely to be?

I think most people are hoping for a HUGE bump in the GPU. That's really what sucks in the 2013 Mac Pro. Most pros are probably hoping Apple goes back to NVIDIA as well...

 

[pat500000]

https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...integration-in-10-12-1.2008996/#post-23774469

Interesting find. Someone from mbp subforum discovered Polaris 10 and 11 support.

 

[AidenShaw]

Actually seems the industry is aligned among the new 2.5GB Eth STD seems the new Base Ethernet STD, dont get scared to see it on the new Macs that still support native Ethernet ports.

I see 'most everyone jumping over 25g and going to 40/100. As long as you're spending that much money, go for more.

And I can't really see Apple jumping to networking that needs twin-ax or optical cabling.

Heck, 10 GbE over Cu was well established when the MP6,1 was announced - yet Apple stuck with older technology.

 

[Jaho101]

https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...integration-in-10-12-1.2008996/#post-23774469

Interesting find. Someone from mbp subforum discovered Polaris 10 and 11 support.

I think people rooting around in the dev beta kexts have found these already, but they seem limited to the amount of CUs that the laptop versions will have so they won't run a desktop 480 at full tilt. Seems to give credence to the idea that only MacBooks are coming this week, though it doesn't mean that a Mac Pro announcement isn't possible. But Apple likes to remain secretive and milk a product line till the last moment, I doubt they'd announce a Pro far in advance and that we wouldn't have seen evidence of it in any Sierra betas.

 

[Barry Bishop]

I think people rooting around in the dev beta kexts have found these already, but they seem limited to the amount of CUs that the laptop versions will have so they won't run a desktop 480 at full tilt. Seems to give credence to the idea that only MacBooks are coming this week, though it doesn't mean that a Mac Pro announcement isn't possible. But Apple likes to remain secretive and milk a product line till the last moment, I doubt they'd announce a Pro far in advance and that we wouldn't have seen evidence of it in any Sierra betas.

They will announce it..what I mean is they will tease us with it, but it's not going to be up for ordering the day of the event. They will sport it around like they did with the nmp and take orders later on.

 

[ManuelGomes]

Apple has been ditching wired Ethernet ports in all devices, I guess nMP could be next? Wireless all around?
Workstations are not there yet.

Mago, I coud see single CPU, single Vega GPU, and the third PCB with all the rest (dual SSD, 3 TB3, dual 10GbE) but that would unbalance the thing.

 

[Mago]

Apple has been ditching wired Ethernet ports in all devices, I guess nMP could be next? Wireless all around?
Workstations are not there yet.

Only Desktops will be available with integrated wired lan this will not change soon, even the mini (if not discontinued) will have one lan port as most sites don't have wireless lan for security.

Mago, I coud see single CPU, single Vega GPU, and the third PCB with all the rest (dual SSD, 3 TB3, dual 10GbE) but that would unbalance the thing.

I don't think so the thermal core easy could be re-arranged to deal with this, and actually is what it dues as most of the time only one GPU is working and usually close to 220W, there is no thermal imbalance and actually its something easy to fix.

 

[Mago]

I see 'most everyone jumping over 25g and going to 40/100. As long as you're spending that much money, go for more.

And I can't really see Apple jumping to networking that needs twin-ax or optical cabling.

Heck, 10 GbE over Cu was well established when the MP6,1 was announced - yet Apple stuck with older technology.

10GbE over CAT 6E copper wires never become a open standard there where at least 3 different vendors, while the new 2.5/5 Gb aka 802.3bz or MGbE is the new IEEE standard on commodity hardware from pc to routers, the selling point is that's cheap and recycles current wiring.

 

[JesperA]

10GbE over CAT 6E copper wires never become a open standard there where at least 3 different vendors, while the new 2.5/5 Gb aka 802.3bz or MGbE is the new IEEE standard on commodity hardware from pc to routers, the selling point is that's cheap and recycles current wiring.

Don't really see your point with 6e? 10GBASE-T is a standard and can be used with Cat6a so 6e is fairly irrelevant.

 

[pat500000]

I think people rooting around in the dev beta kexts have found these already, but they seem limited to the amount of CUs that the laptop versions will have so they won't run a desktop 480 at full tilt. Seems to give credence to the idea that only MacBooks are coming this week, though it doesn't mean that a Mac Pro announcement isn't possible. But Apple likes to remain secretive and milk a product line till the last moment, I doubt they'd announce a Pro far in advance and that we wouldn't have seen evidence of it in any Sierra betas.

we'll gonna have to wait and see...because it seems like Mac Pro is very possible by looking at that.
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They will announce it..what I mean is they will tease us with it, but it's not going to be up for ordering the day of the event. They will sport it around like they did with the nmp and take orders later on.

Just announcing it would calm lot of people down.

 

[Mago]

Don't really see your point with 6e? 10GBASE-T is a standard and can be used with Cat6a so 6e is fairly irrelevant.

10GbT 802.3an-2006 is not an OPEN Standard as 802.3bz
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2.5GBASE-T_and_5GBASE-T#cite_note-18

 

[JesperA]

10GbT 802.3an-2006 is not an OPEN Standard as 802.3bz
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2.5GBASE-T_and_5GBASE-T#cite_note-18

Irrelevant and i still don't get why you dragged Cat6e into your answer to AidenShaw's post

 

[Joe The Dragon]

There are many ways to deal with it.

My favorite is to multiplex the remaining 8 PCIE3 lines for 2-3 TB3 controllers, 2 2.5/10 GB Ethernet + USB3.1, hook the 2 SSD to the PCH (dual Pcie2-NVME),even keeps the line trace moreless the same layout as the current nMP (pcie2-SSD, PCIe3-MUX-TB2-LAN-USB).

Another way is to use only 8 PCIe3 lines on GPU2, and 8 for 2x tb3 8 for a dual PCIe3 NVMe, LAN, USB3 other perpheral hooked to the PCH, even an legacy TB2 header.

or X8 GPU-2 X16 switched to Dual PCI-e storage and 2-3 TB3. With networking / sound / usb 3.1 on PCH / DMI.

 

[ManuelGomes]

Will the Magic Keyboard also have the Magic Toolbar?
https://www.macrumors.com/2016/10/25/virtual-keyboard-layouts-touch-bar/
[doublepost=1477420974][/doublepost]Performance drop with GPU(s) on x8 wouldn't be dramatic but still I don't think it will happen, I hope not.
Maybe now it doesn't matter but later on it will, or not!! By that time the nMP could be obsolete.

 

[fuchsdh]

If we're talking about divvying up PCIe bandwidth I'd say I could easily see Apple keeping the USB3 ports as Gen 1 5Gb ports, like they did with the USB-C on the MacBook. For most "normal" uses that's fast enough, and on a pro machine where you have the much faster TB3 it's not like you are lacking for speed.