Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Waiting for modular Mac Pro 2019
- Thread starter Zarniwoop
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
Uhh.... you just make up statements like this? You haven't seen the benchmarks or?
He
[doublepost=1523032992][/doublepost]Since they talked like that, its clear the future mac pro will be as it should be...because if they now say these such things about this and in 2019 nobody will like/buy the mac pro because its a BS product...the TURST in Apple brand will fall significantly and the stocks will start to drop big time...
hes right tb2 has 20g so it will use just 50% of that gpu power instead of 90%
[doublepost=1523032992][/doublepost]Since they talked like that, its clear the future mac pro will be as it should be...because if they now say these such things about this and in 2019 nobody will like/buy the mac pro because its a BS product...the TURST in Apple brand will fall significantly and the stocks will start to drop big time...
I'm pretty sure that is not correct. tb2 is using more than 50% of a egpu. Depending on what application you are running a 1080 in an tb2 egpu can trounce the internal d700s. So, that would make it effective and worth using.
You didn't think this through did you? Or do you just assume any GPU will saturate the TB2 bus?
ok, its clear you havent tried a desktop gpu through TB2
My amd 580 is getting around 26-27 fps through the TB2
And through Tb3 im getting around 58 fps
Remember, all of these in the latest macOS version
remember that video is from 2 years...a lot of change on the latest macOS HS....in macoS sierra i had a pretty good result even with tb2 but now, since they updated the OS...i think Apple statement is like iphone "cut down performance"
If you want better performance buy from us, a new mac with tb3 ...
Apple on Steve era, made products to last as long as you can...with every update pointing in that direction, now, until the lawsuit...Apple with ios 11 they tried to cut the performance for the older models
If you want better performance buy from us, a new mac with tb3 ...
Apple on Steve era, made products to last as long as you can...with every update pointing in that direction, now, until the lawsuit...Apple with ios 11 they tried to cut the performance for the older models
Haaaaaaaaaaaaaa.
You guys idolize Steve a bit too much.
Remember the time Apple said that OS X would run on any 603e or 604e Mac and everyone rushed out to buy one, and then the G3 came out and Steve was like "Actually it requires a G3 now."
Good times.
I have over 25,000 digital images in multiple Aperture Libraries. A large percentage of them with multiple versions, edits & adjustments.
Apple dropped me like a bad habit.... They shut down Aperture without a thought. Not the first time. I'm still pissed they axed AppleWorks.....
“We want to be transparent and communicate openly with our pro community"
Unfortunately for us it's a one-way conversation....
“We know that there’s a lot of customers today that are making purchase decisions on the iMac Pro"
This should really read: “We know that there’s a lot of customers today that are making purchase decisions on Hackintoshes and PC's.
Tim needs to pull his head out....
Apple dropped me like a bad habit.... They shut down Aperture without a thought. Not the first time. I'm still pissed they axed AppleWorks.....
“We want to be transparent and communicate openly with our pro community"
Unfortunately for us it's a one-way conversation....
“We know that there’s a lot of customers today that are making purchase decisions on the iMac Pro"
This should really read: “We know that there’s a lot of customers today that are making purchase decisions on Hackintoshes and PC's.
Tim needs to pull his head out....
Last edited:
To be fair, Apple said Rhapsody was targeted at the 603, 604, Intel PC and Yellow Box for Windows. MacOS X was only ever offered as something that would run on the G3 and above.
If you remember Steve introducing it "so what was this Rhapsody thing?" He basically consigned that to being an Amelio-era product and strategy, that wasn't his idea, and was being cancelled and replaced wholesale, by a completely different product.
Oh sure, Steve Jobs talked all around it and used a rebrand to pretend OS X was a different product, but at the end of the day everyone went out and bought a lot of really expensive Macs, only to have them dumped by Apple 3.5 years later.
Steve Jobs was more in charge of Rhapsody than he’d like to have admitted. But even assuming it was all Amelio’s fault, he made no effort to help 603e and 604e users when, in the end, OS X ran fine on that hardware once you bypassed Apple’s lockouts.
I’m not trying to thrash Steve completely. He made a lot of good decisions too. But I also thinks it’s funny to act like Steve was overly concerned with keeping old machines working.
I mean, under Steve’s watch, after the Intel transition, they kept PowerPC machines supported for all of one major OS X update.
Yup, dodged a bullet sticking with my powermac 7100 and not investing in the 603/604 era machines... but then again, the first few generations of G3 often ran OS X like garbage - saying it was supported wasn't guarantee that it was good.
But realistically, that's the story of Apple over and over - hype a new technology, realign the whole company around it, sell machines based on the promise of said new tech, but those machines will be obsolete before the promise actually comes to fruition. Thunderbolt being a great example, realistically even TB3 is a half-baked product, but it's the first version to get eGPU support, which was the whole darn point when Intel first showed off light peak.
Without knowing what TB2 machine you're referring to it's hard to know why you're experiencing such poor performance. As someone that has run a 1080Ti eGPU on both TB2 and TB3 computers I can say you're quite wrong in your assessment. Also, I've linked this video to show how they all compare, the results can be seen at the 3 minute mark.
A problem with your setup doesn't mean it's a problem for everyone.
It isn't just the machine it is also two other major factors.
1. which software is driving the benchmark. Game and spec porn benchmarks which simply pre-load 90% of the sequence being test into VRAM and run it won't take a big hit on the bandwidth drop.
Apps which have a higher interchange of data to the host system will.
2. As the video indicates about 20 seconds after the 3 minute mark if you route the output back through the TB cable to display on another screen off the internal GPU there is another hit. The video author nor Apple recommend this but Apple is going to support individual apps doing this long term. ( some folks are going to do it).
TBv2 in that context is a big hit. Even more so as crank up the screen size/resolution.
If Apple doesn't support TBv2 then they close support calls on a "not support config" status when users call in or otherwise soak up Apple support resources (i.e., money) with something that doesn't perform all that well. Yes configs and context will but others won't. A complicated, cherry picking support matrix isn't going to work. supported , not supported is clear and easy to communicate. ( even though there will still be a small set of folks who even not understand that. )
As long as "back to internal GPU and out" is in the supported mix TBv2 is likely to be pushed out.
I'm not talking about just benchmark results, but real-world performance. I have actively used an eGPU on TB2 and TB3 machines, not routed back to any internal display, and can attest to the fact that eGPU performance on TB2 is not at least 50% slower than TB3. Which leads me to suspect a problem with their setup that is causing such poor performance.
You are in the Mac Pro section. Irrelevant.
I don't even know why you're bringing Apple support or iGPUs into this, clearly eGPUs on the nMP are not supported by Apple *at all* yet here we are finding ways to make it happen.
In addition to my nMP I have a 2015 15” MBP with the M370X driving a 4K display.
I’ll hook up my Akitio Node w/RX580 soon and run some subjective tests including a few games and see if it’s “good enough”.
If for some apps I get say 30 FPS vs 5 FPS with the dGPU that may be workable, and save me from thinking about upgrading to a 2017 model. That’s ultimately what matters to me.
For the nMP, as I sold my D300 system and now have a “proper” 8 core D700 system I am content to leave it stock, at least for now.
I’ll hook up my Akitio Node w/RX580 soon and run some subjective tests including a few games and see if it’s “good enough”.
If for some apps I get say 30 FPS vs 5 FPS with the dGPU that may be workable, and save me from thinking about upgrading to a 2017 model. That’s ultimately what matters to me.
For the nMP, as I sold my D300 system and now have a “proper” 8 core D700 system I am content to leave it stock, at least for now.
Indeed, using an external monitor there's a performance hit for both TB3 and TB2, which is around 20%. The suggestion that the difference in TB2 and TB3 bandwidth gives a 50% GPU performance hit because TB2 has half the bandwidth is just a load of nonsense, and it certainly is utter nonsense that EGPU over TB2 has worthless performance. He should read this thread:
https://egpu.io/forums/mac-setup/pcie-slot-dgpu-vs-thunderbolt-3-egpu-internal-display-test/
[doublepost=1523109218][/doublepost]
The D300 cards are really slow, on my 12-core nMP I get a score of 455 in Unigine Heaven. With a 1080 Ti eGPU connected that score jumps to 1892.
Last edited:
I think people take D60's "industry briefs" too personally... he often quotes posts just as a jumping off point to bring up other points and suggest a wider perspective of the actual reality, not necessarily as a rebuttal of what was written (people are so conditioned around here to take everything as an affront to whatever someone says based on their perceived Apple "political" leanings).
Whatever people think of D60's technique, he's one of the few posters in this subforum who actually knows what they're talking about. Most of the folks around here are computer hobbyists, or pros who like to talk a little shop but don't actually know much - which is generally fine for a discussion site like this, but also frustrating/funny to just read the utter nonsense sometimes.
What’s frustrating is that he quotes posts and replies with irrelevant points in a way that very much makes it seem as though he is disagreeing with what has been said.
His “technique” is a poor one.
I'm surprised people still take this Apple product development speak as anything meaningful to the product itself. It's all public relations and marketing BS... it's the same BS that almost every other company will shovel out to their customers at one time or another. It's just embarrassing that Apple continues to ramp it up. But no longer surprising - the last few years of keynotes have been one embarrassment after another. Their software and services have gone to utter ****. They still make some slick hardware, but their premier Mac product, the MBP with the butterfly keyboard fiasco is just another eye-roller.
All the talk of the "Pro Workflow Team" is tech word salad for "we didn't know what the **** to do with the Mac Pro, and now we have to make **** up to sound like we're serious about getting this right". What's so pathetic is that they are only talking about that now, and in the way they talked about it, as though this was some sort of revelation, just makes them seem even more out of touch and moronic than their Mac Pro customers already suspect them to be (Apple is actually far from "dumb"... just not "smart" in the way a lot of people want them to be).
Every single excuse that's been offered for why there haven't been (semi-) yearly updates to the Mac Pro is utter bull-****. And now they're just shoveling more it. They are trying to re-write the narrative, but unfortunately they no longer have SJ's trusty RDF.
All the talk of the "Pro Workflow Team" is tech word salad for "we didn't know what the **** to do with the Mac Pro, and now we have to make **** up to sound like we're serious about getting this right". What's so pathetic is that they are only talking about that now, and in the way they talked about it, as though this was some sort of revelation, just makes them seem even more out of touch and moronic than their Mac Pro customers already suspect them to be (Apple is actually far from "dumb"... just not "smart" in the way a lot of people want them to be).
Every single excuse that's been offered for why there haven't been (semi-) yearly updates to the Mac Pro is utter bull-****. And now they're just shoveling more it. They are trying to re-write the narrative, but unfortunately they no longer have SJ's trusty RDF.
I've spent a bit of today looking up PC components, trying to figure out what sort of machine I would want to make as a VR station.
I'm starting to come around to the idea that there's just no point trying to get my 4,1 to do it, given it's PCI is going to be no faster than a TB3 eGPU when booting into Windows (I can't justify spending hundreds on flashing a 1080ti when taking postage into account), and I honestly don't think VR is ever going to take off substantially on the mac until until the ecosystem has the dynamic of being able to couple a very powerful gpu, with a low end cheaper computer, without the cost or bandwidth overhead of eGPU - eg something like a mac mini with a single standard PCI slot, plus it needs Nvidia to be a first class player, because AMD isn't delivering the goods on high resolution 3d game engine performance.
So instead, I may as well try to build a dedicated compact desktop (cause my mac pro, and its airflow, is eating a lot of the underside of my desk) VR appliance machine, that's just going to boot into steam & viveport, and keep the MP as my gigapixel-crunching (which is cpu only) workstation, and storage management.
I was previously interested in the Corsair One, but looking at their forums, the new product manager is now saying they're really not talking about them being upgradable any more. Then I happened upon an interesting case - Phanteks Evolv Shift. It's designed for mini-itx motherboards (some of which have 4 ram slots and TB3 in addition to a pci3 x16 slot), targeting single aio watercooled 1080ti class gpu, & aio watercooled cpu, and look to have pretty neat build options.
Never built or owned a pc before, but i guess there's a first time for everything.
Starting to wonder if there's a need for a dedicated "companion PC for your mac pro" thread
I'm starting to come around to the idea that there's just no point trying to get my 4,1 to do it, given it's PCI is going to be no faster than a TB3 eGPU when booting into Windows (I can't justify spending hundreds on flashing a 1080ti when taking postage into account), and I honestly don't think VR is ever going to take off substantially on the mac until until the ecosystem has the dynamic of being able to couple a very powerful gpu, with a low end cheaper computer, without the cost or bandwidth overhead of eGPU - eg something like a mac mini with a single standard PCI slot, plus it needs Nvidia to be a first class player, because AMD isn't delivering the goods on high resolution 3d game engine performance.
So instead, I may as well try to build a dedicated compact desktop (cause my mac pro, and its airflow, is eating a lot of the underside of my desk) VR appliance machine, that's just going to boot into steam & viveport, and keep the MP as my gigapixel-crunching (which is cpu only) workstation, and storage management.
I was previously interested in the Corsair One, but looking at their forums, the new product manager is now saying they're really not talking about them being upgradable any more. Then I happened upon an interesting case - Phanteks Evolv Shift. It's designed for mini-itx motherboards (some of which have 4 ram slots and TB3 in addition to a pci3 x16 slot), targeting single aio watercooled 1080ti class gpu, & aio watercooled cpu, and look to have pretty neat build options.
Never built or owned a pc before, but i guess there's a first time for everything.
Starting to wonder if there's a need for a dedicated "companion PC for your mac pro" thread
Last edited:
Check out this extreme tower “iMac Pro” hackintosh build guide. This link was originally posted on Gearslutz by a DAW builder who also posted Geekbench scores of 4264 for single core and 70629 for multi-core.
https://www.tonymacx86.com/threads/...c-pro-successful-build-extended-guide.229353/