Waiting for the 2020 MBP

[Falhófnir]

No, it wouldn't work in the Unibody chassis unless you're talking 2008-2011. The 2013-2015 form factor is a little too thin - you wouldn't even have room for all of the parts.

My ideal hardware model for a MacBook Pro workstation is the Dell Precision 7730. Pricing is comparable to Apple for equivalent hardware. But it can take 4 SSDs and 128 GB of RAM, has cellular options, modem options, battery options, a ton of video card options (they're probably user-installable), generous ports, 4K screen, 17.3 inch display.

https://www.dell.com/en-us/work/sho...rationid=e511605a-6167-4f54-b731-294f1c22ec7a

Yes that's the generation that is usually meant by unibody - additionally there was no 2012-2015 (retina) 17". While all MacBooks since have been 'unibody' including the Retina and Touchbar Pros, and 12" MacBook and MacBook Airs, that generation of Pro is the one for which it was the big tentpole feature so it remains associated. Additionally I also meant to say cooked their GPUs not CPUs!

 

[pshufd]

Yes that's the generation that is usually meant by unibody - additionally there was no 2012-2015 (retina) 17". While all MacBooks since have been 'unibody' including the Retina and Touchbar Pros, and 12" MacBook and MacBook Airs, that generation of Pro is the one for which it was the big tentpole feature so it remains associated. Additionally I also meant to say cooked their GPUs not CPUs!

Well, I have 2008 and 2011 17 inch MacBook Pros so I know those well. I was disappointed when they discontinued them. Even the 2007-2011 models could get pretty hot doing things like video transcoding. And there were just plain, defective GPUs too - though I blame nVidia for that. The 2014/2015 models are a lot better but those can spin up too under loads like Video Transcoding. The Dell 7730 actually reminds me of my 2008 and 2011 17 inch MacBook Pros. It's a bit angular but the thickness and geometry are similar. I would guess that the 7730 is a bit thicker to be able to accommodate all of the additional hardware options. Those old laptops weight 8 pounds too. A lot of people complain that that's far too heavy but even an old geriatric guy like me manages with about 35 pounds of gear to/from the office.

 

[Martius]

So after the yesterday release, here is my prediction for 2019-2020:

I think that Apple is obviously trying to quickfix Macbook keyboard problems (only to gain some extra time), so they have replaced all the non-2019 Macbooks (they added at least truetone to MBA to somehow justify the release). I think that the 2019 keyboard might be finally flawless in terms of reliability, they had enough time to test it.

They have released entry-level TB MBP, because in 2019 it might be cheaper for them to sell TB-only MBP 13". The price of that gimmicky TB technology must be much lower than it was in 2016, so it might be easier to have just one version of MBP 13".

I don't think we will see any new laptops from Apple in 2019, maybe some preview of upcoming 16" MBP. I think the 16" will be there to replace the 15", so the 16" might just be only part of the 2020 release of MBP replacements (14" will be another part). Selling 16" side-by-side with 15" would mean that: a) Apple needs to lower the price of the 15" or b) 16" is gonna be much more expensive than 15". I hope that Apple knows that the "b" option is insane. Even the current prices of 15" are quite high, can't imagine how many people would buy $3500+ computer. The 15" used to be reasonable priced computer. Not cheap, but reasonable.

And the last thought: I think we might see the return of Macbook 12" with ARM processor priced similary as the current (old) Macbook 12" – premium ultraportable laptop.

So to sum it up for 2020: cheap Macbook = MBA 13", premium small, new tech = ARM Macbook 12", powerful = MBP 14/16".

 

[danwells]

Makes sense, although I could see the 16" showing up later in 2019 the way the Retina did in 2012 or so - a "halo model" that comes only in generous configurations (at a high price) at first. There was a period of between 6 months and a year when Apple sold the two alongside each other (not counting refurbs - you could get a Unibody from the refurb store for at least another year or two).

The Retina carried a price premium, but the premium wasn't huge ($200-$300?) once you configured the two similarly. The catch was that the Retina came only with a SSD, and the only way to get a SSD larger than 256 GB (at first) was to also buy the upgraded processor. A Retina MBP with 16 GB of RAM, a 512 GB SSD and the upgraded processor was a $3000 machine - but configuring a regular Unibody to the same specs was almost as expensive.

I could see them doing something similar with the 16" - the premium for the 16" itself might not be huge, but it might come only with a 1 TB SSD (although Apple just dropped their SSD prices substantially, so 1 TB is "only" a $200 upgrade from 512 GB), or only with 32 GB of RAM, or only with an 8-core processor, or only with a Vega 20 (or some combination). It could easily have a $3000 - $3500 base price, but most of that would be the high configuration.

Come the spring 2020 upgrades, the 15" would go away and less heavily configured 16" models would take their place...

 

[x-evil-x]

Makes sense, although I could see the 16" showing up later in 2019 the way the Retina did in 2012 or so - a "halo model" that comes only in generous configurations (at a high price) at first. There was a period of between 6 months and a year when Apple sold the two alongside each other (not counting refurbs - you could get a Unibody from the refurb store for at least another year or two).

The Retina carried a price premium, but the premium wasn't huge ($200-$300?) once you configured the two similarly. The catch was that the Retina came only with a SSD, and the only way to get a SSD larger than 256 GB (at first) was to also buy the upgraded processor. A Retina MBP with 16 GB of RAM, a 512 GB SSD and the upgraded processor was a $3000 machine - but configuring a regular Unibody to the same specs was almost as expensive.

I could see them doing something similar with the 16" - the premium for the 16" itself might not be huge, but it might come only with a 1 TB SSD (although Apple just dropped their SSD prices substantially, so 1 TB is "only" a $200 upgrade from 512 GB), or only with 32 GB of RAM, or only with an 8-core processor, or only with a Vega 20 (or some combination). It could easily have a $3000 - $3500 base price, but most of that would be the high configuration.

Come the spring 2020 upgrades, the 15" would go away and less heavily configured 16" models would take their place...

That doesn’t differentiate a 16” from a 15” much besides just upping the specs on the existing 15”. I really don’t see apple just releasing an only spec 16” to make it different with the same internals you can get on a 15”. They would just drop the 15” for the 16” at that point. Just adds more confusion to the line. If they are going to keep the 15” around then the 16 needs to be Something MORE than just a higher spec 15” model you can buy now.

 

[Blair Paulsen]

Modern laptop buyer groups:

Group 1) Price sensitive and typically values user experience (size, weight, screen quality, kb feel, etc) over specs.
For Apple this is iPad, iPadPro, MB, MBA territory. Competition is under $500 PC laptops, other tablets, phablets...

2) Laptoppers - folks who use them for everything from email to spreadsheets to watching GOT. They need easy to live with - long battery life, easy to carry around, decent display, etc.

3) Serious tech heads and posers seeking street cred. Specs should be desktop class. Display should be 3840 pixels wide (2160 or 2400 H) with 10 bit color, >95% P3 gamut. Ultra modern casing to attract well heeled, image conscious buyers.

I submit that Apple already has plenty (perhaps too many) options for the first two groups. The underserved segment is actually the high end where $4-8K for a serious work machine is not an issue. Moreover, the traditional office setting filled with desktops is trending toward a far more mobile model where having serious computing resources in your shoulder bag or backpack can be a real asset.

 

[x-evil-x]

I feel like apple should have a more pro MacBook Pro with upgradable parts just like the Mac Pro. There is no way apple would sell that many 4-5k laptop that you can't upgrade. I don't feel like there would be a huge market for it if they wouldnt be self upgradable in that price range.

 

[MrGunnyPT]

Modern laptop buyer groups:

Group 1) Price sensitive and typically values user experience (size, weight, screen quality, kb feel, etc) over specs.
For Apple this is iPad, iPadPro, MB, MBA territory. Competition is under $500 PC laptops, other tablets, phablets...

2) Laptoppers - folks who use them for everything from email to spreadsheets to watching GOT. They need easy to live with - long battery life, easy to carry around, decent display, etc.

3) Serious tech heads and posers seeking street cred. Specs should be desktop class. Display should be 3840 pixels wide (2160 or 2400 H) with 10 bit color, >95% P3 gamut. Ultra modern casing to attract well heeled, image conscious buyers.

I submit that Apple already has plenty (perhaps too many) options for the first two groups. The underserved segment is actually the high end where $4-8K for a serious work machine is not an issue. Moreover, the traditional office setting filled with desktops is trending toward a far more mobile model where having serious computing resources in your shoulder bag or backpack can be a real asset.

So we assuming the Pro users as 3rd?

 

[Martius]

That doesn’t differentiate a 16” from a 15” much besides just upping the specs on the existing 15”. I really don’t see apple just releasing an only spec 16” to make it different with the same internals you can get on a 15”. They would just drop the 15” for the 16” at that point. Just adds more confusion to the line. If they are going to keep the 15” around then the 16 needs to be Something MORE than just a higher spec 15” model you can buy now.

Completely agree! As I said, keeping 16" and 15" side-by-side doesn't really make sense at all for me. 15" is that high-end computer. Of course there are gaming computers / pro-workstations, but those are niche products. 15" is a great compromise between portability, battery life, performance...

Companies like Apple have to be more careful with raising the prices and raise them only when it's really necessary (some really expensive new technlogy), not just because it's a new computer (with better specs). You know, like adding FaceID. FaceID tech is already two years old and it must have gotten much cheaper to produce than it used to be. So adding FaceID to a laptop should not make it $100 more expensive. 15" inch MBP is already a very expensive laptop and making even more expensive laptop is a direct route to a market failure.

I think what actually is missing here is a $2000 15" MBP, not a super-high-end super-expensive laptop. Look at that new Mac Pro. It's a great machine, but they have completely missed that $2500-6000 range which is the price that semi-pros / freelancers (like me) are able to pay for an upgradable computer + decent monitor. Nobody is going to buy the base Mac Pro, because the specs are just bad. So the Mac Pro more like a $10000+ computer that has a "cheap" option to bring it closer to the previous Mac Pro prices. I agree that iMac fills that mentioned price range, so for me it's the only option right now. And it's a great computer, of course.

 

[fokmik]

It's a great machine, but they have completely missed that $2500-6000 range

If apple made it 4999$ you would said 2500-4999 range right? and so on..
also the same with the 2000$ mbp 15" if apple will lower the price for the 15" after the release of the new 16" you will say then instead of 2000$, 1800$ ?

 

[danwells]

It would be something more than the 15", while also replacing the 15" in a year's time...

It can't have new processors, because there aren't any (and there may not be until 2021?).
It will hopefully have new GPUs (existing Vega as base, new Vega or Navi option).
It will have a new, higher-resolution screen (I agree with those hoping for 4K)
It will have a new keyboard
It will hopefully have better cooling
It may offer 64 GB of RAM as an (expensive) option?

The market for the old 15" will be split among two or three machines. One is the new 16", of course, which will capture the core creative market for the 15" All of us who've been saying "I'd be happy with another half-pound if it meant better cooling, a new keyboard and a bit more GPU" will love the 16". It'll still be a relatively thin and light machine, but not as extreme. It will compete with machines like HP's ZBook Studio and Lenovo's P1 a little better than it does now.

I don't think we're looking at a full-power 6 lb ZBook 15 or Lenovo P53 competitor - there's too little those machines can do that their 4.5 lb counterparts can't anymore (wired Ethernet without a dongle and spinning disks are about the only two differentiators left). This is a ~4.5 lb machine - fast, powerful and still very portable.

The second option for old 15" customers will be the 13" MBP, especially if it becomes the 14" MBP. It's already a quad-core, and may have hex-core options with Intel's next processor generation (28W 6-core processors and/or 28W quad-core processors with radically improved graphics both look more likely than a major improvement at 45W).

The third option is a new machine Apple may have in development. I'm guessing (and this is no more than a guess) that one of the mysterious model numbers is something big and thin - a 3 lb 15" machine? Call it a MacBook Air or a MacBook - it really doesn't matter. 15W quad-core with integrated graphics, but a nice big screen...

 

[Blair Paulsen]

For many users, particularly folks like me in media production, new CPUs are not the biscuit.
System RAM needs to be at least 32GB, 64GB mo' bettah'.
Enough PCIe lanes to support GPU and serious I/O.
Enough cooling for a stronger GPU and enough power to support a card with 8GB VRAM.
The 4.5lb (2kg) weight spec makes sense but a thicker chassis to ease cooling challenges is still a tradeoff I'd make.
At the end of the day, it's about a laptop that performs like a desktop. Otherwise, the MBP, whether 15" or 16", is still too thermally constrained for most media pros.

 

[danwells]

What's your ideal (presently available) laptop? Forget OS considerations and assume you could have a Mac version of whatever exists now. If you want a 10 lb gaming laptop, you get the 1 hour battery life, the weight and the fan, though (desktop CPU or GPU with decent battery life and reasonable portability isn't a viable option unless you can point to a Windoze machine that offers that combination).

My personal answer is "the next size up" from the top MBP - HP and Lenovo make stuff that's slightly thicker and heavier than a 15" MBP, but not much, and offer better keyboards and cooling, 64 GB RAM capacities and 4K screens (possibly with a bit more GPU power). They don't support 2.5" internal drives, but they DO offer a few more ports (not Ethernet, but yes to HDMI and both USB-C/TB3 and old-style USB)

I just don't see enough difference in the 6 lb workstations (personally) to justify them over the 4.5 lb versions. They'ere heavy, but not unreasonably so - but they don't offer a lot that the 4.5 lb versions don't - same CPUs, screens and RAM, maybe a little extra GPU or wired Ethernet, plus 2.5" drive support, but are those things worth an extra 1.5 lbs?

The 8-10 lb gaming machines do offer more power, especially on the GPU side, but the tradeoffs are huge - huge (sometimes dual) power adapters, roaring fans and 1-2 hour battery lives...

 

[pshufd]

Dell Precision 7730. 128 GB user installable RAM, up to four SSDs. Wide choice of CPUs and GPUs. Wide choice of screens up to 4K. 17.3 in screen. Choice of modems. Choice of cellular modems. Choice of batteries. 3 USB ports, two Thunderbolt 3, HDMI, mini-DisplayPort, keyboard with more travel than most laptops. SD card reader. Secure Card option. Choice of fingerprint readers. Price is way up there if well speccedw.

 

[danwells]

Very nice machine, if somewhat heavy (7 lbs, and I don't want to think about what the 240 watt power adapter adds) - the weight is probably worth it for some folks.

It's around $3700 in a 32 GB/1 TB configuration with the same i9-9980HK Apple uses and a Radeon WX 7130 (a close friend of Apple's "Pro 580" - same number of stream processors, very similar performance, slightly less memory bandwidth than the "Pro 580". ) The 1 TB NVMe SSD is much slower than Apple's (an extra $300 buys one that is quite a bit closer in speed). That does include the optional 4K display (the next option down is full HD and only sRGB).

At its astonishingly high full configuration (128 GB of RAM, quad 2 TB SSDs, Quadro 5000), it can exceed $12,000

 

[swifty168]

This has probably already been discussed but what do you all think the possibility of the 2020 models moving to 16” and 14” for the pro models.
Footprint needn’t change too much if the screen goes closer to the edge and a shift to 16:9 native 4K for the 16” model.
Or possibly even 17:9 cinema 4K with 4096 x 2160. In which case I can see the 16” as a stand-alone model whilst keeping the 16:10 ratio 15” and 13” pro models.

 

[c0ppo]

My personal answer is "the next size up" from the top MBP - HP and Lenovo make stuff that's slightly thicker and heavier than a 15" MBP, but not much, and offer better keyboards and cooling, 64 GB RAM capacities and 4K screens (possibly with a bit more GPU power). They don't support 2.5" internal drives, but they DO offer a few more ports (not Ethernet, but yes to HDMI and both USB-C/TB3 and old-style USB)

Don't know anything about HP, but Lenovo offers all you wrote about, but the machine is less heavy then a MBP.
It offers 2x USB-a, 2x TB3, SD Card, etc., upgradable ram slots, dual nvme drives (upgradable as well), and weights less then MBP.

I'm talking about X1E. Gen2 of that device is coming out in a week or so, and it will offer OLED screens as well.

 

[TheRealAlex]

2020 Will be a huge Upgrade 100%

But I’m sorry Ive waited this Long, I’m just gonna keep waiting for either 4K OLED or 144Hz FreeSync Display.
As an option.

Before I could safely say Apple MacBook Pro had the Best Displays for Laptops

In 2019/2020 that’s just Not true.

 

[throAU]

Suspect i won't ever buy another macbook.

For the portable stuff i do, the new ipads are a better device. For the stuff i need a computer for, the macbooks aren't powerful enough anyway.

 

[pshufd]

Very nice machine, if somewhat heavy (7 lbs, and I don't want to think about what the 240 watt power adapter adds) - the weight is probably worth it for some folks.

It's around $3700 in a 32 GB/1 TB configuration with the same i9-9980HK Apple uses and a Radeon WX 7130 (a close friend of Apple's "Pro 580" - same number of stream processors, very similar performance, slightly less memory bandwidth than the "Pro 580". ) The 1 TB NVMe SSD is much slower than Apple's (an extra $300 buys one that is quite a bit closer in speed). That does include the optional 4K display (the next option down is full HD and only sRGB).

At its astonishingly high full configuration (128 GB of RAM, quad 2 TB SSDs, Quadro 5000), it can exceed $12,000

I'm spoiled with Magsafe and Magsafe 2 MacBook Pros. I have a lot of the charging bricks so I have three at the office and three at home so I don't need to bring them with me. I currently carry two MacBook Pros, 2014 15 and 2015 15 so weight really isn't a factor for me. But it's really nice that I can use old power bricks for newer equipment, even if only with an adapter.

I just received an employee sale email with up to 45% off on Lenovo laptops. The Lenovo P72 is the equivalent of the Dell Precision 7730. A lot of the specs and options are similar. I should take a look at it but I've heard some negative things about it in the reviews. I suspect that getting 2019 MBP performance comes down to picking the right components. You can get the cheaper components and it sounds nice on paper but you'll lose performance here and there. The advantage, though, is that you can buy a cheap configuration, and then improve it over time as the better performance components come down in price. The other thing is that you can put in components that are better than they are now down the road as parts are user-replaceable. This is harder to do with MacBook Pros which are effectively locked down.

 

[TheRealAlex]

2020 MacBook Pro DEALBREAKERS Top 5

#1. Must have Intel 10nm 10th Gen 8 Core CPU
#2. 120Hz IPS 10-bit 4K HDR Display. I’ll even accept FreeSync Support But 120-144Hz is a Must
#3. I think we need an SD Card Slot. UHS-III speeds
#4. FaceID sensor Built in
#5. We need a new Keyboard period.

2021 I am sure will be the first Samsung 15” 4K OLED Displays only about 7 Windows Laptops have them in 2019 and they are all Samsung OLED Panels. Samsung is catering to Apple saying look out 15” OLED Panels are reliable and Apple will place an order for a fraction of the price Windows PC like Alienware, HP, Lenovo, Dell, Gigabyte all paid for the Panels.

 

[c0ppo]

Apple will place an order for a fraction of the price Windows PC like Alienware, HP, Lenovo, Dell, Gigabyte all paid for the Panels.

Indeed, this will probably happen.
Apple will pay a fraction of the price that PC OEMs pay for, but PC users will pay fraction of the price when compared to Apple users

 

[gadgetfreaky]

2020 MacBook Pro DEALBREAKERS Top 5

#1. Must have Intel 10nm 10th Gen 8 Core CPU
#2. 120Hz IPS 10-bit 4K HDR Display. I’ll even accept FreeSync Support But 120-144Hz is a Must
#3. I think we need an SD Card Slot. UHS-III speeds
#4. FaceID sensor Built in
#5. We need a new Keyboard period.

2021 I am sure will be the first Samsung 15” 4K OLED Displays only about 7 Windows Laptops have them in 2019 and they are all Samsung OLED Panels. Samsung is catering to Apple saying look out 15” OLED Panels are reliable and Apple will place an order for a fraction of the price Windows PC like Alienware, HP, Lenovo, Dell, Gigabyte all paid for the Panels.

1- no release in sight on that one. Maybe late next year ?? Intel says yields are not there so they'd lose too much monehy if they tried to make those in quanity.
2. I sure hope so - I'd settle for just a big screen improvement . I agree Apple's screens are actually way far behind competitors like Dell etc.
3. meh. Apple seems hell bent on reducing all ports all the time.
4. Yes please
5. Should get next year at latest.

 

[Macintoshrumors]

That doesn’t differentiate a 16” from a 15” much besides just upping the specs on the existing 15”. I really don’t see apple just releasing an only spec 16” to make it different with the same internals you can get on a 15”. They would just drop the 15” for the 16” at that point. Just adds more confusion to the line. If they are going to keep the 15” around then the 16 needs to be Something MORE than just a higher spec 15” model you can buy now.

The ‘16 is nothing more then thinning the bezzels. That it. The ‘15 will be around untill stock depleates

 

[addictive]

Question: Would it be cheaper for Apple to manufacture the same chassis for a MBP for all models, i.e four USB-C ports? Then there is a clear difference with the MacBook Air having two USB-C ports. The MacBook Pro range of laptops would differ in price based solely on the internals you select.

I'm currently using a MacBook Pro retina (2015) and it suits me perfectly. I like the keyboard and mag safe is supreme, I use all the ports I have especially HDMI and to a lesser extent SD Card.

I purchased it on the day the 4th gen TB USB-C MBP were released in October 2016.

So I'm using a fairly old computer now but I'm just not tempted to buy these current models despite the higher specs.

I'm waiting on a redesign whether its in 2020 or later.