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SSD-GUY

macrumors 65816
Sep 20, 2012
1,159
2,118
Interstellar
'Will' is a bit absolute for Intel's current situation, 'planned to be' is probably the better phrasing. I mean, by that timeline Ice Lake should already be in machines on the market en masse (it states halfway through Q2, we're now into Q3). Also worth pointing out, what Intel is now releasing as '10nm' isn't anything like what they were promising in 2014/15. I've read 18-20% improvement (single core), which isn't to be sniffed at, but that's over Skylake! Intel have basically said their first steps into '10nm' class chips will be more like transferring their 14nm designs onto a 12nm manufacturing process, with none of the ambitious density increase that made previous shrinks significant. It sounds more like this will be similar to Kaby Lake over Skylake - it will run cooler and that will let them up clock speeds a little bit. I'd really love to be pleasantly surprised, but I'd definitely advise keeping hopes somewhat restrained.

Yeah I've read the same, however I'm more excited about a potential redesign. The fact that the 13" MBP now packs a quad-core processor is more than enough juice for me, plus the graphical improvements are quite a bit better compared to the CPU improvements, so that's a plus.
 
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SSD-GUY

macrumors 65816
Sep 20, 2012
1,159
2,118
Interstellar
'Will' is a bit absolute for Intel's current situation, 'planned to be' is probably the better phrasing. I mean, by that timeline Ice Lake should already be in machines on the market en masse (it states halfway through Q2, we're now into Q3). Also worth pointing out, what Intel is now releasing as '10nm' isn't anything like what they were promising in 2014/15. I've read 18-20% improvement (single core), which isn't to be sniffed at, but that's over Skylake! Intel have basically said their first steps into '10nm' class chips will be more like transferring their 14nm designs onto a 12nm manufacturing process, with none of the ambitious density increase that made previous shrinks significant. It sounds more like this will be similar to Kaby Lake over Skylake - it will run cooler and that will let them up clock speeds a little bit. I'd really love to be pleasantly surprised, but I'd definitely advise keeping hopes somewhat restrained.

Also, it does state on the leaked roadmap that the Ice Lake chips are (limited) meaning perhaps they're not going to have a wide rollout.

I for one hope they get tiger lake 28w chips in by next summer so I can replace my 2017 model
 

Cmgreen

macrumors newbie
Jun 26, 2019
10
5
So guys am just reading quietly in the back ground, I am keen to purchase a MBP 13" but all the rumours etc about keyboards failing is putting me off just yet, now if we read all the latest rumours there's a new keyboard on the MB Air poss Just the MacBook, correct if I am wrong, but would apple really release a new keyboard on these models and potentially put off new MBP owners? Surely this would dent sales even more?
 

kp98077

macrumors 601
Oct 26, 2010
4,316
2,766
Whistler, BC
So guys am just reading quietly in the back ground, I am keen to purchase a MBP 13" but all the rumours etc about keyboards failing is putting me off just yet, now if we read all the latest rumours there's a new keyboard on the MB Air poss Just the MacBook, correct if I am wrong, but would apple really release a new keyboard on these models and potentially put off new MBP owners? Surely this would dent sales even more?
Am I confused or if they release a new keyboard on the new Air, it should be the same keyboard the 2019 MBP? which is great BTW! perfect tactile balance, IMO...
 

Howard2k

macrumors 603
Mar 10, 2016
5,716
5,674
Am I confused or if they release a new keyboard on the new Air, it should be the same keyboard the 2019 MBP? which is great BTW! perfect tactile balance, IMO...


There is allegedly a new keyboard to debut in the new Air. It's not the 2019 Pro KB, it's a materially different design and a different manufacturer.
 
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Cmgreen

macrumors newbie
Jun 26, 2019
10
5
There is allegedly a new keyboard to debut in the new Air. It's not the 2019 Pro KB, it's a materially different design and a different manufacturer.

Apple would be fools to have a updated ‘better’ keyboard in just one of the Models, that would put alot of people off until the rest of the models followed suit, it would make sense to re design and launch the whole macbook/Air and Pro at the same time.

Surely they are not that stupid?
 

Howard2k

macrumors 603
Mar 10, 2016
5,716
5,674
Apple would be fools to have a updated ‘better’ keyboard in just one of the Models, that would put alot of people off until the rest of the models followed suit, it would make sense to re design and launch the whole macbook/Air and Pro at the same time.

Surely they are not that stupid?


That's how they do it routinely. The current butterfly keyboard debuted in the 12" Macbook. So they were selling the Pro and Air with the older KB and the Macbook with the new KB.

They don't routinely re-launch all laptops simultaneously for a keyboard refresh, in fact I'm not sure they've ever done that.

EDIT: Here you go:
https://appleinsider.com/articles/1...y-keyboard-for-scissor-version-in-macbook-air
 

Cmgreen

macrumors newbie
Jun 26, 2019
10
5
That's how they do it routinely. The current butterfly keyboard debuted in the 12" Macbook. So they were selling the Pro and Air with the older KB and the Macbook with the new KB.

They don't routinely re-launch all laptops simultaneously for a keyboard refresh, in fact I'm not sure they've ever done that.

EDIT: Here you go:
https://appleinsider.com/articles/1...y-keyboard-for-scissor-version-in-macbook-air

Understand that, but as apparently people have had issues then makes sense to re fresh the while range? Just doesn't make sense to me, maybe the marketing people are stoned
 

Falhófnir

macrumors 603
Aug 19, 2017
6,146
7,001
Am I confused or if they release a new keyboard on the new Air, it should be the same keyboard the 2019 MBP? which is great BTW! perfect tactile balance, IMO...
I guess as the Pro only had one more year before it was redesigned anyway they felt less inclined to redesign it with the new KB this year, as the Air would presumably have not been redesigned for another 3-4 all being well, they probably decided that was a non-option so just bit the bullet and changed it after a year.
 

kp98077

macrumors 601
Oct 26, 2010
4,316
2,766
Whistler, BC
I guess as the Pro only had one more year before it was redesigned anyway they felt less inclined to redesign it with the new KB this year, as the Air would presumably have not been redesigned for another 3-4 all being well, they probably decided that was a non-option so just bit the bullet and changed it after a year.
I know that is how they did it before just seems odd to me they would bring it out first on the Air versus the pro... who knows... lol
 

burton317

macrumors newbie
Jul 5, 2019
2
0
The main problem I have with waiting at this point is that the very fact that they engineered a fourth generation butterfly keyboard with new materials tells me that they’re not getting rid of that keyboard garbage anytime soon.
It was just announced that they are in fact dropping the butterfly keyboard and going with the scissor type
 

Falhófnir

macrumors 603
Aug 19, 2017
6,146
7,001
not a chance....Apple could try the waters with 12" macbook first
A real possibility - Apple might not want their ARM chips pigeonholed as a low power/ low performance solution - debuting them on a really high end machine would be a real tour de force if they have the performance
 

morze

macrumors member
Jun 17, 2019
89
79
A real possibility - Apple might not want their ARM chips pigeonholed as a low power/ low performance solution - debuting them on a really high end machine would be a real tour de force if they have the performance

If it's a really high end machine, that would mainly target professionals. I use software that takes a while to even support later OSX versions for example. Apple tend to force their hand, but it sometimes backfires or doesn't go down too well. Or is going from Intel to ARM not an issue for software developers?
 

Falhófnir

macrumors 603
Aug 19, 2017
6,146
7,001
If it's a really high end machine, that would mainly target professionals. I use software that takes a while to even support later OSX versions for example. Apple tend to force their hand, but it sometimes backfires or doesn't go down too well. Or is going from Intel to ARM not an issue for software developers?
If Project catalyst is anything to go by, Apple already have many developers working on having their applications run across x86/ ARM and KB and mouse/ touch UIs. By the time an ARM mac launches, even if it's later this year, I'd expect there to already be a good catalogue of apps available (almost certainly iWork suite, Final cut, Adobe suite, Microsoft office), and I'd imagine a handful of choice others. Emulation is a wildcard with if it will be present as an interim solution, and how well it will work, but in this scenario I am guessing Apple will keep the 2019 Pros around for anyone who's really stuck and for whom there isn't a workaround, while the shiny new 16" powerhouse showcases what Apple can do with their own silicon.
 

pshufd

macrumors G4
Oct 24, 2013
10,155
14,579
New Hampshire
The good news is that they are ditching the keyboard for 2020. But I wonder if the scissors keyboard will be in the 2019 16. Apple has a lot of work to regain trust.
 

cool11

macrumors 68000
Sep 3, 2006
1,823
223
The good news is that they are ditching the keyboard for 2020. But I wonder if the scissors keyboard will be in the 2019 16. Apple has a lot of work to regain trust.

Do we really know that apple will drop butterfly keyboard?
 

Cmgreen

macrumors newbie
Jun 26, 2019
10
5
Do we really know that apple will drop butterfly keyboard?

No, all based on some guys rumours, it wouldnt be sensible for Apple to just change the keyboard on one model and not the rest, as they have had issues with the Butterfly Keyboard as people will wait for the laptop they want to be released therefore losing sales massively, i would even go as far as the 7 new part number Apple released are all new versions of the current range with new keyboards, Macbook air, Macbook, Macbook pro 13" and 15" ..............
 
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