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TiggrToo

macrumors 601
Aug 24, 2017
4,205
8,838
Sounds like a ***** system then. My 19 year old car still works as good as new and doesn't ever need system updates. So the car analogy is still in the OPs favour.
No, it nails it perfectly. It's something that the theory could be updated, the vendor chooses not to.

I never said it made sense and I never said I supported this.

The reasoning here for Infiniti is that it's DVD based and they don't want to pay for the DVD production any more.

So we're left with a perfectly good car (as per the OPs iPad) with apps that no longer get new data (as per the OPs apps).
 

davidh2k

macrumors newbie
Mar 10, 2012
26
54
You can check up which Version of iOS/ipadOS (the current version/update of) an app requires on the app store page. This does not mean that you can't download older versions of apps, if the developer allows you too.

Interesting to see, that as posted earlier, even the netflix version for iOS 10 is still functioning to this day.

1649765162117.png

Some prominent examples, including some german language specific ones, since they popped to my mind.

iOS 10
Whatsapp (not a reader app, but you gotta give credit where it's due)

iOS 11
TVnow/rtl+ (German TV Channel Group)


iOS 12
emby
Joyn (another german TV Channel Group)
twitch (12.4)


iOS 13
Paramount+
Peacock


iOS 14
Plex (14.5)
Netflix
Disney+
Amazon Prime Video


It's up to the devs to just export it in xcode for that specific version. There are probably not many reasons api wise, that some apps are compiled for a very new (as in iOS14) target.

Edit: For Reference:


https://stackoverflow.com/questions/65645983/how-to-change-deployment-target-in-xcode-12-3


Greetings
David
 
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SirAnthonyHopkins

macrumors 6502a
Sep 29, 2020
948
1,892
Can't believe you're still going into bat for the weak car analogy, but hey, if that's the hill you want to die on...

Given that an iPad Air essentially always has been a consumption device ahead of anything else, the equivalent of losing access to video streaming apps isn't very similar to losing the ability to update your GPS firmware, it's more like having your steering wheel removed.

I don't even really think the OP has much of a point, Apple devices are pretty well supported for years after release, and it's understandable that devs choose to support more recent operating systems rather than constantly patching security issues for a minority people on older OS.

But iPads and cars aren't very much alike in many respects, and especially not when you're trying to argue that both lose equal amounts of their usefulness over time.
 
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Andeddu

macrumors 68000
Dec 21, 2016
1,798
2,341
Good luck trying to convince Netflix to continue supporting a system that’s completely redundant and no longer supported by even the manufacturer.

I have an iPad Mini 1 which is still in perfect working order. It’s a brick now though because none of the apps are supported any longer. You have to remember that apps are more sophisticated now than they were 9-10 years ago. My 2015 Mini 4 is still fully supported after 7 years which represents great value from the manufacturer and third party organisations.

My iPad Mini 5 should be fine until 2027-28. Happy to upgrade when the time comes. I sure won’t feel cheated after 8 years of support.
 

mpetrides

macrumors 6502a
Feb 10, 2007
591
524
I hate to join in this conversation because doing so gives the original post some level of continued validity but I do need to point out that you paid perhaps $500 for your iPad Air and used it for 9 years. So you have paid perhaps $55 per year for the Air and that's not good enough??? Plus, you can still use the Air, just not for every single new app. How is that Apple's problem?

My Apple ][+ (yes, I still have a functioning Apple ][+) still runs the software I had for it in 1980 but it doesn't have the ability to drive a Retina display. Is that a defect for which Apple is responsible? I think not.
 

Heat_Fan89

macrumors 68030
Feb 23, 2016
2,933
3,822
At least they still have trade in value. I think you’d get pretty much $0 for any Android or Windows tablet released circa 2013-14 (almost 8-9 years old). They perform even worse than same vintage iPads, too.
That really depends one where you trade it in. Last year my 9.7" Samsung Galaxy Tab S2 which I bought on Amazon for around $270 had a value of $350 with Samsung during their BF event. So I was in the plus range. As with any trade in, timing and with whom is everything.
 

TheRoadRunner

Suspended
Oct 7, 2020
83
163
United Kingdom
Around the Air 1 model, the iPad had enough horsepower for my kid and wife to watch movies and play various games. At this point, I have three Air 1's, 2 Mini's and an Air 2 that still work perfectly fine, but have maxed out on IOS updates that have basically rendered them useless due to most apps requiring a later version.....even movie apps!! Trade and resale value is crap. You're literally forced to upgrade to a new device. I bought an Air 4 to replace my Air 2. Then bought an Air 5 and gave the Air 4 to wife. Kid to getting a Mini 6 next month for Bday.

I assume this is a laugh? If not, Apple leads the way on software support for older devices, no Android manufacturer comes even close.
 

BigMcGuire

Cancelled
Jan 10, 2012
9,832
14,032
You need to file a complaint with each app developer who doesn't maintain a version that works with your old OS.
I wonder if that would work with the old Kaypro in my parent’s garage. :p I demand Age of Empires II remastered work on that! :p To court! (/sarcasm).

I had a relative call me up recently saying how upset they were that their 2011 MBP wasn’t installing Monterey and they felt like Apple was forcing them to buy a new laptop. As someone (me) who upgrades every 3 years (or less) lol….. <cough> I did my best to explain that this lifespan was very good for a laptop.
 

davidh2k

macrumors newbie
Mar 10, 2012
26
54
Good luck trying to convince Netflix to continue supporting a system that’s completely redundant and no longer supported by even the manufacturer.

As shown, some companys, like meta in that example, do that.

I wonder if that would work with the old Kaypro in my parent’s garage. :p I demand Age of Empires II remastered work on that! :p To court! (/sarcasm).

Thats not the same analogy. For the most part, depending on the usage of respective iOS APIs and Swift it could be simply selecting the target deployment to an earlier iOS Version.

You need to file a complaint with each app developer who doesn't maintain a version that works with your old OS.

Thats completely right, allthough I don't think that a joe sixpack would have much chance of succeeding anything here. But OP is right, it turns perfectly fine Hardware into bricks for those purposes - especially if Developers don't allow to download older versions of their apps - which would still work just fine.


Greetings
David
 

julesme

macrumors 6502a
Oct 14, 2016
626
2,222
San Jose
So because it was released 9 years ago it’s too old to watch a Peacock app, Paramount, Disney, etc….why? It should still be able to do those things, maybe not as good, sure.
It’s just me talking, guy….Apple doesn’t care what I think.

Peacock, Paramount, and Dis+ apps didn’t even exist when your Air 1 came out, so those are not good examples for your situation. Are you expecting a new app released in 2022 to also support the original iPad Air?

Otherwise, I understand and sympathize with your point, ie that apps which originally work when you buy the device should also continue to do so over time.
 

pilotpat

macrumors 6502a
May 6, 2015
613
1,169
Nebraska, USA
I totally get the sentiment that an app that works today should work in in the future, but it's a view that isn't shared by developers. It's fine in concept, but not so much in application.
For instance there are new API's, new OS features, new media compression options that require minimum processor specs to work efficiently. 3rd party API's and backend requirements where the 3rd party has decided not to support older version of an OS. Swift UI for example only works for iOS 13 and higher. If I want to use the newer options I have to cut things off at some point.
Having 2 versions of the same app isn't as easy as everyone seems to think it is. Especially when it comes to independent developers, i'm not saying it's not allowed, or possible, just that it's not just a matter of clicking a box in xcode. You have to maintain a separate work flow for the older app, adding complexity to testing, especially when you need to test it on a physical device.
 

rui no onna

Contributor
Oct 25, 2013
14,919
13,262
Good luck trying to convince Netflix to continue supporting a system that’s completely redundant and no longer supported by even the manufacturer.

No need to convince Netflix. They haven't withdrawn their older app versions from the App Store and those still work fine for devices running older firmware. You won't get app updates or new features but you can still watch.

Again, I tested Netflix on a mini 4 on iOS 10 and it was working fine. Will test later if it will work on OG Air+iOS 9. Alas, I don't have devices with older firmware than that. Well, I do (iPt 4/iOS 4, iPhone 4/iOS 5, iPhone 4S/iOS 6) but I don't have 30-pin cables anymore.
 
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BigMcGuire

Cancelled
Jan 10, 2012
9,832
14,032
No need to convince Netflix. They haven't withdrawn their older app versions from the App Store and those still work fine for those on older firmware. You won't get app updates or new features but you can still watch.
For an application like Netflix I could see how this would be an easy thing to support - just downloading video.

Applications that require more involved features (back and forth data transfers, etc) would need more recent hardware to comply with security requirements and new feature requirements.

As someone who has worked as a developer in my past (and manages a development team now) - most companies have a developer budget that barely covers programmers to develop for the current OS let alone past OS versions.
 
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BugeyeSTI

macrumors 604
Aug 19, 2017
7,240
9,086
Arizona/Illinois
No need to convince Netflix. They haven't withdrawn their older app versions from the App Store and those still work fine for devices running older firmware. You won't get app updates or new features but you can still watch.

Again, I tested Netflix on a mini 4 on iOS 10 and it was working fine. Will test later if it will work on OG Air+iOS 9. Alas, I don't have devices with older firmware than that. Well, I do (iPt 4/iOS 4, iPhone 4/iOS 5, iPhone 4S/iOS 6) but I don't have 30-pin cables anymore.
Netflix still supports the AppleTV 3rd gen and it works fine. I don't have all the fancy new interfaces but I actually think it's easier to use without all the fluff
 

rui no onna

Contributor
Oct 25, 2013
14,919
13,262
For an application like Netflix I could see how this would be an easy thing to support - just downloading video.

Applications that require more involved features (back and forth data transfers, etc) would need more recent hardware to comply with security requirements and new feature requirements.

True but the apps the OP is complaining about are video streaming ones.
 

Apple fan from Korea

macrumors regular
Mar 27, 2021
175
210
Around the Air 1 model, the iPad had enough horsepower for my kid and wife to watch movies and play various games. At this point, I have three Air 1's, 2 Mini's and an Air 2 that still work perfectly fine, but have maxed out on IOS updates that have basically rendered them useless due to most apps requiring a later version.....even movie apps!! Trade and resale value is crap. You're literally forced to upgrade to a new device. I bought an Air 4 to replace my Air 2. Then bought an Air 5 and gave the Air 4 to wife. Kid to getting a Mini 6 next month for Bday.
Expecting modern apps to run flawlessly on an almost 9 year old device seems quite asinine
 

EdT

macrumors 68020
Mar 11, 2007
2,429
1,980
Omaha, NE
If the reason that your apps aren’t working is because of some change that Apple has made to their OS then you might have a (very) weak claim. If the reason that the app isn’t working is because the Developer cut off support after X years and it’s not a problem caused by Apple’s code then you are complaining to the wrong party.

Considering how many devices (phones, tablets, computers, game console’s, etc) that need to be maintained by the DEVELOPER and not something that Apple is responsible for I can understand why after 5-7 years that Developer decides it’s not worth fixing the code for only a small (relatively) number of customers. But that is still the Developer and not Apples decision.
 

FNH15

macrumors 6502a
Apr 19, 2011
822
867
A 10 year old car, if had Navigation, was being fed by a disc somewhere in the vehicle, so the chances of you getting an update could be likely.
10 years ago is 2011. What car in 2011 was still using discs for sat nav?
Maybe 15 years ago, sure. I had a 2004 BMW 330Ci with DVD-based maps which lost support in 2015. Not a bad run.

My 2009 BMW 335i uses its hard disk for nav data. I received an update last year for its mapping data (hopefully will receive an update this year as well). Indeed I still receive live RTTI traffic updates as well. BMW does tend to support its cars a lot longer, and is way more advanced than other manufacturers, though. My 911 doesn’t get map updates any more, and it’s also a 2009.

Conversely, the built-in telematics don’t work, as they’re 2G based. I can’t send directions from my iPhone to my car, for example. Doesn’t work because the supporting infrastructure literally no longer exists.

This works for iOS devices too. Your built-in apps still function fine - Clock, Messages, Mail, even Maps. But stuff which requires a server to relay data might cease to work as the system’s firmware becomes more obsolete. For example, my iPad 2 running iOS 6 serves Maps data fine, but Safari has issues rendering pages and Netflix hasn’t worked in years. My iPhone 3G running 3.1.3 still loads Google Maps, but Safari is limited to a handful of text-only websites (m.cnn.com, for example), and Weather / Stocks no longer work.

Maintaining compatibility with obsolete firmware versions is a major attack vector, as later OS releases bring security improvements. For videos, you can still load .mp4 files from iTunes / Finder onto the local device. That works even with an iPod Classic...
 

SpaceN64

macrumors newbie
May 16, 2021
27
82
Universe
I’m not looking for Apple support. I’m just saying at least allow movie apps and such to still be useable. Sure, they still have “value” and work better than any Android tablet, but what good is that if you cannot do anything with them other than native stuff.
Its up to the developer of the apps, if they think it shouldn't run on one of your devices, then so be it. You always have safari and third party developer apps for a certain streaming service
 

erikkfi

macrumors 68000
May 19, 2017
1,726
8,097
OP is a little off base but something similar happens on Mac, where iWork apps won’t even download anymore if you can’t upgrade the OS further. So for example, if you’re stuck on Catalina, the App Store will tell you to upgrade your MacOS if you try to download Numbers, rather than offering you the last version of Numbers that was compatible with Catalina.

You can sometimes find older versions on the Web but the fact you have to do so is a disgrace for Apple, which is always touting the App Store as a “safe” one-stop shop for applications.
 

TracerAnalog

macrumors 6502a
Nov 7, 2012
796
1,462
Around the Air 1 model, the iPad had enough horsepower for my kid and wife to watch movies and play various games. At this point, I have three Air 1's, 2 Mini's and an Air 2 that still work perfectly fine, but have maxed out on IOS updates that have basically rendered them useless due to most apps requiring a later version.....even movie apps!! Trade and resale value is crap. You're literally forced to upgrade to a new device. I bought an Air 4 to replace my Air 2. Then bought an Air 5 and gave the Air 4 to wife. Kid to getting a Mini 6 next month for Bday.
Which apps require you to upgrade to a newer but incompatible version? I’m curious. I’m guessing cloud based services like Netflix?
 

subjonas

macrumors 603
Feb 10, 2014
6,257
6,737
It's part of the vehicle that can no longer be updated. Sure the rest if the vehicle is fine.

Just like the OPs iPad...
… sigh…
The analogy doesn’t work because a car is not used primarily for GPS. It’s used primarily for driving. GPS is one practically inconsequential accessory, because it is so far from the primary function that many cars don’t even have it. Internet-dependent apps are in almost all cases THE primary function of iPads.

A good analogy would be about primary function. It was a bad analogy. I am making no other point here btw.
 
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