iPad We need to file a complaint!

[brooksbrewer]

You’re missing the point….I don’t care that these devices cannot get iOS 15.4.1….they work fine on iOS 12 or wherever they stopped. Your point is valid, they would run terribly on the latest firmware, BUT the device should still have access to apps to be useful.

You’re extremely confused. Let’s break down storage and size of apps, data, etc. If a developer is building an app that runs on the latest APIs, includes all of the necessary architecture to work, that alone is a good chunk of information. Now let’s throw in APIs that go all the way back to versions you need; now that app is sizably larger. How much storage do your iPads have? As we move forward, software and files get bigger. At some point it’s A) Not cost effective like mentioned above, and B) Netflix all of a sudden is 1.3gb to download. But now you don’t have space and something else to complain about.

Let alone 32/64 bit architecture, and having an app be compatible with both adds to the size. But that’s a completely different facet.

If you have no idea about anything I just typed, you don’t have a good platform to stand on with your argument.

 

[joseph2166]

TL;DR - If an iPad Air / iOS 12 user reports an issue developers may need that exact device and iOS combination in order to reproduce and fix the issue. And even Netflix and Disney's engineering budgets aren't infinitely large.


There are four reasons developers like myself drop support for old versions of iOS:

1. It's time-consuming to test on multiple versions of iOS, and impossible to test on every combination of hardware and os version. Automated tests improve matters, but it still takes time and therefore money to set-up
2. You end up testing on the Xcode simulator, which as the name suggests isn't 100% accurate, or you end up buying and maintaining a large number of old devices, which is costly and often impractical
3. If users report an issue on an iOS or device you don't own, you can't always reproduce the issue in order to fix it; so in what sense can you say you 'support' that iOS and device?
4. It stops developers using many of the latest iOS and Swift features - features that can improve reliability and therefore the experience on newer devices. Not to mention the lives of of developers

As other's have posted, this is only a problem for connected apps, of which Netflix and Disney are examples. I maintain a catalogue of unconnected apps dating back over a decade. Users on old machines who are no longer supported by the latest version of my apps can still download the last-supported version for free from the App Store (although this doesn't work for potential new users) and rarely report issues.

But for developers of connected apps there's an even bigger problem: testing each device and iOS version combination each time the server-side architecture changes significantly. Again, automated tests can help, but they can't solve the problem entirely.

 

[TiggrToo]

… sigh…
The analogy doesn’t work because a car is not used primarily for GPS. It’s used primarily for driving. GPS is one practically inconsequential accessory, because it is so far from the primary function that many cars don’t even have it. Internet-dependent apps are in almost all cases THE primary function of iPads.

A good analogy would be about primary function. It was a bad analogy. I am making no other point here btw.

Oh, so the iPad is primarily used to watch Netflix videos?

Funny, my iPad is used primarily for Zoom meetings, remote connections to Windows boxes for support, graphics work with Affinity, doing my daily journal and web browsing.

And occasionally watching movies.

That’s just me, mind.

In the meantime the GPS can be hugely important when driving to help us navigate hands-free. Not having it updated means we have to resort to our phones - and without Carplay, that’s significantly harder to do.

 

[jagolden]

It’s equally asinine you typed this when those expectations haven’t been mentioned one time in this thread.

Seems hey have been.
Just what is your expectation and problem?
No one needs a long BS post for these answers.
Waste of time on something which was inevitable from the day you purchased it (them).

 

[TiggrToo]

10 years ago is 2011. What car in 2011 was still using discs for sat nav?

Infiniti for one. Right up to 2017. Guarantee they’re not alone.

You not knowing this doesn’t mean it didn’t happen.

 

[subjonas]

Oh, so the iPad is primarily used to watch Netflix videos?

Funny, my iPad is used primarily for Zoom meetings, remote connections to Windows boxes for support, graphics work with Affinity, doing my daily journal and web browsing.

And occasionally watching movies.

That’s just me, mind.

In the meantime the GPS can be hugely important when driving to help us navigate hands-free. Not having it updated means we have to resort to our phones - and without Carplay, that’s significantly harder to do.

What? This response sounds like you read the first and last word of my post and filled the rest in with whatever was on your mind at the moment.

 

[v0lume4]

Say what you will, but the OP’s argument holds water. Yes, Apple does well with providing software support for longer than most mobile device manufacturers.

But to be “artificially” locked out of applications due to an older OS is really silly.

Case in point: my old MacBook Pro from 2010 is still my daily driver. However, because I’m running an older version of macOS, there’s many programs I can’t use. However, I can boot right into Windows 7 (SAME hardware) and install literally any program.

Ditto with my recently retired Android phone that was still rocking Android 7.1. I ran all the up to date apps I needed.

I’m not a software engineer, so all I know to say is that there’s clearly something more “modular” about Windows/Android compared to the method in which Apple defines and allows compatibility from app developers. Windows adapts to whatever hardware it runs on, rather than the hardware adapting to Windows. Android apps are able to be more “self contained” and work on an OS that is five years out of date.

 

[TiggrToo]

What? This response sounds like you read the first and last word of my post and filled the rest in with whatever was on your mind at the moment.

Except I read it all.

YOU claimed GPS Navigation was inconsequential. May be inconsequential to you. YOU however do not represent everyone.

It’s important to the wife and I.

 

[joseph2166]

I’m not a software engineer, so all I know to say is that there’s clearly something more “modular” about Windows/Android compared to the method in which Apple defines and allows compatibility from app developers. Windows adapts to whatever hardware it runs on, rather than the hardware adapting to Windows. Android apps are able to be more “self contained” and work on an OS that is five years out of date.

Either that, or developers for Windows or Android feel they have to support old versions or lose sales. Whilst on iOS I know that I can support iOS 15 and 14 and still reach 86% of iPad users and 93% of iPhone users (Apple's own figures). In my experience of supporting iOS and Android apps, Android users are a lot more forgiving of issues that only affect their phone or version of Android OS.

Don't get me wrong, every time a developer makes that decision it is a hard one to make, but many would rather lose a few sales than risk giving users of old devices a poor experience that will result in bad App Store reviews.

 

[TiggrToo]

I’m not a software engineer, so all I know to say is that there’s clearly something more “modular” about Windows/Android compared to the method in which Apple defines and allows compatibility from app developers. Windows adapts to whatever hardware it runs on, rather than the hardware adapting to Windows. Android apps are able to be more “self contained” and work on an OS that is five years out of date.

Google are going to be enforcing apps be updated and will be hiding apps with no updates after 2 years.

And dollars to donuts many of the same issues that affect old iPadOS will also affect old Android apps.

 

[NT1440]

Say what you will, but the OP’s argument holds water. Yes, Apple does well with providing software support for longer than most mobile device manufacturers.

But to be “artificially” locked out of applications due to an older OS is really silly.

Case in point: my old MacBook Pro from 2010 is still my daily driver. However, because I’m running an older version of macOS, there’s many programs I can’t use. However, I can boot right into Windows 7 (SAME hardware) and install literally any program.

Ditto with my recently retired Android phone that was still rocking Android 7.1. I ran all the up to date apps I needed.

I’m not a software engineer, so all I know to say is that there’s clearly something more “modular” about Windows/Android compared to the method in which Apple defines and allows compatibility from app developers. Windows adapts to whatever hardware it runs on, rather than the hardware adapting to Windows. Android apps are able to be more “self contained” and work on an OS that is five years out of date.

How is it artificial if the App requires using modern API’s that aren’t in an older version of iOS?

 

[FNH15]

Infiniti for one. Right up to 2017. Guarantee they’re not alone.

You not knowing this doesn’t mean it didn’t happen.

Given the sorry state of Nissan’s infotainment systems, that doesn’t really surprise me, though that’s quite unfortunate and sad.
How the mighty have fallen. I remember when Infiniti was a valid competitor to the Germans (indeed I almost bought a G35 instead of the 330Ci).

The analogy still holds, though. A device will work in perpetuity for local software, but is at the mercy of server-based systems for relevance on the web.

There is also a difference between support and what something will run. For example, my BMW diagnostics machine (a MacBook 5,2) runs Windows 7. I can still browse the web via Firefox. Would I want to though? Hell no. Windows 7 hasn’t received security updates for nearly 2 years. I can still totally browse the web in Firefox ESR on the Mavericks partition, BTW. Neither are supported by their software vendor.

Consider also that for Macs, software support includes hardware support in the form of firmware updates. This is why the Mac Pro 5,1s were dropped from support as Apple couldn’t get microcode updates from Intel for the Xeons used.

The iPad 1 uses an A7 chip, and there are substantial differences between an A7 and an A8 (what an iPad mini, Apple TV HD use). I suspect that’s the reason why Apple doesn’t support A7 devices to run iOS 15. It may also be the reason why app developers don’t support those older OS’ as well.

 

[cnnyy20p]

That’s the point of Apple ecosystem. Developers are required to update their software to support the latest architecture. And with Apple leave behind old architecture means that the OS is more efficient and is not bloated unnecessarily legacy stuff. It has some downside but that’s why it’s Apple.

 

[XIO[-]OIX]

You’re missing the point….I don’t care that these devices cannot get iOS 15.4.1….they work fine on iOS 12 or wherever they stopped. Your point is valid, they would run terribly on the latest firmware, BUT the device should still have access to apps to be useful.

I agree with you. But is it Apples fault or the developers just stop supporting it, as someone stated?

 

[GMShadow]

I’m a Java developer and have written many apps. You think I’m wrong and have no idea what Apple is capable of. So you’re one of those “I’m right, so you’re wrong kind of guys” If you believe an app like Peacock(just picking one) is not able to run on an older iPad for any other reason than they don’t want it to for performance issues, you’re crazy….considering it ran on it at one point just fine.

> I'm a Java developer

This explains so much.

Realistically, these companies look at costs. If it's going to cost them $4000 in labor to keep maintaining an app for an older version, and they make $2000 in revenue from users on that version, no sanely run enterprise is going to continue support.

They maintained them until it became a financial burden, then they dropped support. End of story.

The iPad 1 uses an A7 chip, and there are substantial differences between an A7 and an A8 (what an iPad mini, Apple TV HD use). I suspect that’s the reason why Apple doesn’t support A7 devices to run iOS 15. It may also be the reason why app developers don’t support those older OS’ as well.

It really came down to RAM. All A7 devices had 1GB, and iOS requires 2GB or more. It's why the Mini 4 and Air 2 running A8 variants still get iOS updates, because they had 2GB of RAM, while the iPhone 6/6+, which had 1GB, do not.

 

[XIO[-]OIX]

Like any and everything else, if Apple cared and pushed/demanded it of developers, it would happen.

Do you really think Apple should push/demand developers to support 10 year old hardware?
This is beyond unreasonable

 

[subjonas]

Except I read it all.

YOU claimed GPS Navigation was inconsequential. May be inconsequential to you. YOU however do not represent everyone.

It’s important to the wife and I.

It’s important to me too, but I’m talking about inconsequential to the analogy. Ok I’ll try explaining one more time because for some reason it’s important to me that people use good analogies lol. I didn’t say Netflix is the primary function. I don’t know if you noticed, but I said “internet-dependent apps” are primary. So you brought up Netflix which is one example. Then you proceeded to list the other apps that you primarily use, pretty much all of which were internet-dependent, so only proving my point. The primary function of an iPad is internet-dependent apps (for most people). The primary function of a car is to drive. If the issue is losing the primary function of an iPad, then the analogy of a car needs to address losing the primary function of the car. Losing GPS doesn’t work when 99% of cars throughout history never had GPS. So it would need to lose something elemental, like the engine or the wheels.

 

[TiggrToo]

It’s important to me too, but I’m talking about inconsequential to the analogy. Ok I’ll try explaining one more time because for some reason it’s important to me that people use good analogies lol. I didn’t say Netflix is the primary function. I don’t know if you noticed, but I said “internet-dependent apps” are primary. So you brought up Netflix which is one example. Then you proceeded to list the other apps that you primarily use, pretty much all of which were internet-dependent, so only proving my point. The primary function of an iPad is internet-dependent apps (for most people). The primary function of a car is to drive. If the issue is losing the primary function of an iPad, then the analogy of a car needs to address losing the primary function of the car. Losing GPS doesn’t work when 99% of cars throughout history never had GPS. So it would need to lose something elemental, like the engine or the wheels.

The OP has only shown a few apps that don’t work - mainly media consumption.

Ergo other internet dependent apps (e.g. web browsing) are probably just fine.

In all my apps on my iPad only 6 are for video: Netflix, Hulu, Amazon Prime, HBO Max, Apple TV and YouTube.

That’s not even 10%.

 

[Gix1k]

[QUOTE="XIO[-]OIX, post: 31018644, member: 1302190"/]Do you really think Apple should push/demand developers to support 10 year old hardware?
This is beyond unreasonable[/QUOTE]

They won’t because by their design, I have to replace every iPad and keep feeding their pocket. I’m not mad at them on this subject. Just think it sucks that a perfectly capable device is more or less trash before it needs to be.

 

[TiggrToo]

They won’t because by their design, I have to replace every iPad and keep feeding their pocket. I’m not mad at them on this subject. Just think it sucks that a perfectly capable device is more or less trash before it needs to be.

You’ve already admitted you just assumed this was an Apple problem. You’ve also admitted that there could be a perfectly good reason why the apps no longer connect.

But still you beat this poor horse to death.

 

[subjonas]

The OP has only shown a few apps that don’t work - mainly media consumption.

Ergo other internet dependent apps (e.g. web browsing) are probably just fine.

In all my apps on my iPad only 6 are for video: Netflix, Hulu, Amazon Prime, HBO Max, Apple TV and YouTube.

That’s not even 10%.

Same here but I barely use 85% of my apps lol. But anyway..
Yeah, after the first post OP was focused more on certain video apps. BUT the first post said “most apps” were losing support, not specific to video apps, so that was what I was going off of. After all, it is known that any internet-dependent apps are the ones to lose compatibility first. (Yes first party apps and popular web browsers hold on longer.)
But also even if it was just video apps, I think we can all agree there are large swaths of people who primarily use their iPads as a TV. But nobody primarily uses their car as a GPS device (as in start up their car, check GPS, turn off car, then ride their bike).

 

[Gix1k]

> I'm a Java developer

This explains so much.

Realistically, these companies look at costs. If it's going to cost them $4000 in labor to keep maintaining an app for an older version, and they make $2000 in revenue from users on that version, no sanely run enterprise is going to continue support.

They maintained them until it became a financial burden, then they dropped support. End of story.



It really came down to RAM. All A7 devices had 1GB, and iOS requires 2GB or more. It's why the Mini 4 and Air 2 running A8 variants still get iOS updates, because they had 2GB of RAM, while the iPhone 6/6+, which had 1GB, do not.

It explains enough! You’re talking about iOS updates and RAM. These things weren’t discussed in the OP, in fact, it was stated, being updated to the latest iOS isn’t a concern because, the device purpose doesn’t need the latest.

 

[progx]

You’re missing the point….I don’t care that these devices cannot get iOS 15.4.1….they work fine on iOS 12 or wherever they stopped. Your point is valid, they would run terribly on the latest firmware, BUT the device should still have access to apps to be useful.

Apple leaves apps to the developers and what they choose to support. What we’re you doing on those iPads to get them to run so slow?

Have you tired streaming through Safari? My dad had no issues with my old Air 2.

 

[Macative]

I’m not looking for Apple support. I’m just saying at least allow movie apps and such to still be useable.

No. How's that for an answer?

 

[Gix1k]

Apple leaves apps to the developers and what they choose to support. What we’re you doing on those iPads to get them to run so slow?

Have you tired streaming through Safari? My dad had no issues with my old Air 2.

Dude….I never said they were slow. I said they work fine but are now lacking apps that my wife and kid used often to the point they stopped using them and use their phones for those things now. The Air 2 you speak of is still getting iOS updates and that’s why your dad is still well off.