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FNH15

macrumors 6502a
Apr 19, 2011
822
867
It explains enough! You’re talking about iOS updates and RAM. These things weren’t discussed in the OP, in fact, it was stated, being updated to the latest iOS isn’t a concern because, the device purpose doesn’t need the latest.

Not sure what you’re not understanding.

A baseline OS is required to access data via the apps you’re trying to use.
The device you’re using doesn’t support the minimum required OS for these apps, due to a device limitation (i.e. not enough RAM, not the correct processor instruction set to run the baseline OS)

Thus, you can’t access data via these apps.

Developers don’t gain any money from an iPad sale. They gain money from subscriptions / app purchases. If anything devs have a vested interest in supporting older OSes so that their user base is larger.
 
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GMShadow

macrumors 68020
Jun 8, 2021
2,126
8,683
It explains enough! You’re talking about iOS updates and RAM. These things weren’t discussed in the OP, in fact, it was stated, being updated to the latest iOS isn’t a concern because, the device purpose doesn’t need the latest.

You've spent the entire thread making bad faith claims and circular arguments. Everyone here is wasting their time replying to you at this point.

Go buy new devices or sell them for Android gear, and move on.
 

BigMcGuire

Cancelled
Jan 10, 2012
9,832
14,032
You've spent the entire thread making bad faith claims and circular arguments. Everyone here is wasting their time replying to you at this point.

Go buy new devices or sell them for Android gear, and move on.
5 pages - not too bad eh? :) I know, I'm guilty of replying lol.
 
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FNH15

macrumors 6502a
Apr 19, 2011
822
867
You've spent the entire thread making bad faith claims and circular arguments. Everyone here is wasting their time replying to you at this point.

Go buy new devices or sell them for Android gear, and move on.

You’re right. Life’s too short. Personally I’m unsubscribing from this thread.
 
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Gix1k

macrumors 68040
Original poster
Jun 16, 2008
3,496
1,203
You've spent the entire thread making bad faith claims and circular arguments. Everyone here is wasting their time replying to you at this point.

Go buy new devices or sell them for Android gear, and move on.

Clearly you DON’T READ! I said already they have been replaced.
 

Gix1k

macrumors 68040
Original poster
Jun 16, 2008
3,496
1,203
You’ve already admitted you just assumed this was an Apple problem. You’ve also admitted that there could be a perfectly good reason why the apps no longer connect.

But still you beat this poor horse to death.

You’ve responded more to this thread than I have…lol!
 
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iStorm

macrumors 68020
Sep 18, 2012
2,035
2,442
Again, I tested Netflix on a mini 4 on iOS 10 and it was working fine. Will test later if it will work on OG Air+iOS 9. Alas, I don't have devices with older firmware than that. Well, I do (iPt 4/iOS 4, iPhone 4/iOS 5, iPhone 4S/iOS 6) but I don't have 30-pin cables anymore.
I got you... I've got a 10-year-old iPad 3 topped out at iOS 9.3.5 lying around. I fired it up, downloaded Netflix, and watched some shows just fine. I'm actually surprised it still works.
 
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rui no onna

Contributor
Oct 25, 2013
14,918
13,261
I got you... I've got a 10-year-old iPad 3 topped out at iOS 9.3.5 lying around. I fired it up, downloaded Netflix, and watched some shows just fine. I'm actually surprised it still works.

Lol, we traded our iPad 3s back when we could still get like $100-130 for it and replaced them with the iPad 5th gen (circa 2017). Performance was so bad on the iPad 3 (even typing is majorly delayed) that I couldn't in good conscience give it away to extended family.

I know I complain a lot about 2GB RAM and iPadOS 15 but even those are a dream to use compared to the iPad 3.
 
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EdT

macrumors 68020
Mar 11, 2007
2,429
1,980
Omaha, NE
10 years ago is 2011. What car in 2011 was still using discs for sat nav?
Maybe 15 years ago, sure. I had a 2004 BMW 330Ci with DVD-based maps which lost support in 2015. Not a bad run.

My 2009 BMW 335i uses its hard disk for nav data. I received an update last year for its mapping data (hopefully will receive an update this year as well). Indeed I still receive live RTTI traffic updates as well. BMW does tend to support its cars a lot longer, and is way more advanced than other manufacturers, though. My 911 doesn’t get map updates any more, and it’s also a 2009.

Conversely, the built-in telematics don’t work, as they’re 2G based. I can’t send directions from my iPhone to my car, for example. Doesn’t work because the supporting infrastructure literally no longer exists.

This works for iOS devices too. Your built-in apps still function fine - Clock, Messages, Mail, even Maps. But stuff which requires a server to relay data might cease to work as the system’s firmware becomes more obsolete. For example, my iPad 2 running iOS 6 serves Maps data fine, but Safari has issues rendering pages and Netflix hasn’t worked in years. My iPhone 3G running 3.1.3 still loads Google Maps, but Safari is limited to a handful of text-only websites (m.cnn.com, for example), and Weather / Stocks no longer work.

Maintaining compatibility with obsolete firmware versions is a major attack vector, as later OS releases bring security improvements. For videos, you can still load .mp4 files from iTunes / Finder onto the local device. That works even with an iPod Classic...
I have a 2012 Toyota Camry. It still had/has discs for sat nav. And at the time, upgrading the discs was expensive, although I don't remember the exact cost. I had an iPhone and had access to both Google Maps and Apple and I never tried to get the disc replaced/upgraded. It has the original disc(s) now, as I still own the car.
 

mi7chy

macrumors G4
Oct 24, 2014
10,625
11,298
Fruitless anyway since iPad Air 1 is DRAM deficient with only 1GB that limits OS updates and suffers from app reloads. Compared to competing devices at the time that had 3GB that are still more usable today.

At least they still have trade in value. I think you’d get pretty much $0 for any Android or Windows tablet released circa 2013-14 (almost 8-9 years old). They perform even worse than same vintage iPads, too.

False if you check sold prices on Ebay plus what I stated above. As someone who uses both ecosystems, iPads tend to have less future proofing and worse apps compatibility with regards to older OS compared to Android that has better specs and hardware features so better future proofing and better backwards OS app compatibility plus open source ROMs that make even 2012 2GB DRAM devices usable in 2022.

 
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v0lume4

macrumors 68030
Jul 28, 2012
2,548
5,286
Either that, or developers for Windows or Android feel they have to support old versions or lose sales. Whilst on iOS I know that I can support iOS 15 and 14 and still reach 86% of iPad users and 93% of iPhone users (Apple's own figures). In my experience of supporting iOS and Android apps, Android users are a lot more forgiving of issues that only affect their phone or version of Android OS.

Don't get me wrong, every time a developer makes that decision it is a hard one to make, but many would rather lose a few sales than risk giving users of old devices a poor experience that will result in bad App Store reviews.
Yeah, I’m honestly not sure. On the topic of Windows vs macOS, the fact that I can fire up Windows 7 on my MacBook and run the very same apps that macOS won’t let me (because I’m too many updates behind) tell me there’s something fundamentally different about the way that Windows as an OS operates in regards to compatibility compared to macOS. These big, numbered OS updates that Apple releases yearly for macOS are treated by Apple (and devs) as top down OS revisions when they’re really mostly feature updates. I don’t know if Apple is stripping out legacy API’s and breaking compatibility yearly or what. I have a hard time believing that it’s all on the developers.
 

v0lume4

macrumors 68030
Jul 28, 2012
2,548
5,286
Google are going to be enforcing apps be updated and will be hiding apps with no updates after 2 years.

And dollars to donuts many of the same issues that affect old iPadOS will also affect old Android apps.
Google will be enforcing that apps be updated at least every two years? Or you’re saying Google will not allow apps to run on Android versions over 2 versions old? I doubt they’d do the latter.

My Android 7.1 phone was running the same versions of apps that people running Android 12 were running. You’d never see that on an iPhone. See my reply above to another poster. I don’t know why OS updates by Apple seem to limit or break compatibility to such a degree.
 

blkjedi954

macrumors 6502
Feb 15, 2012
409
314
Florida
Honestly, I blame people like you for all these products/updates not being better or impactful. Apple has to support unnecessarily old tablets like yours which means the next big OS update is a big dud because of your old hardware. I like tech evolution and think Apple should limit mobile device support (e.g. iPads, iPhones) to 5yrs max.
Probably one of the dumbest and myopic comments I’ve ever read in these forums, outside of troll comments. You’re in TimeOut from infinity and beyond. Sheesh, that thought actually formed in that grey of yours and you thought it made sense to share it. Two failed opportunities to stop it; at inception AND dissemination.
 
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v0lume4

macrumors 68030
Jul 28, 2012
2,548
5,286
How is it artificial if the App requires using modern API’s that aren’t in an older version of iOS?
Well that’s what I want to know. Android 7.1 can run apps that people on Android 12 are running.

Windows 7 on my MacBook can run the same programs that macOS cannot run on the same MacBook. Why does Apple treat its yearly macOS updates like it does mobile phone updates? Why is two updates behind “too old” for many developers? Is Apple fundamentally changing the OS at its core that much yearly? That’s what puzzles me.
 
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TiggrToo

macrumors 601
Aug 24, 2017
4,205
8,838
Google will be enforcing that apps be updated at least every two years? Or you’re saying Google will not allow apps to run on Android versions over 2 versions old? I doubt they’d do the latter.

My Android 7.1 phone was running the same versions of apps that people running Android 12 were running. You’d never see that on an iPhone. See my reply above to another poster. I don’t know why OS updates by Apple seem to limit or break compatibility to such a degree.
a) The former.
b) The same is true on iOS : there's a number of apps on the app store that haven't been updated in 5 years.

You were saying "You'd never see that on an iPhone" if I recall... Well, sucks to be wrong I guess. Not only is it 5 years old, but it still runs - I played it on my iPad again just a few months ago.

1649816927883.png
 
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joseph2166

macrumors 6502
Jan 11, 2006
258
5
I don’t know if Apple is stripping out legacy API’s and breaking compatibility yearly or what. I have a hard time believing that it’s all on the developers.
It’s 100% on the developers. It’s a simple drop-down menu in Xcode to decide which versions of iOS to support. Xcode currently supports back to iOS 9, which covers everything from the iPad 2 and iPhone 4S up.

If Disney has decided not to support iOS 13 and earlier then it’s entirely their choice. They’ve decided that the benefits of easier development and testing outweigh the cost of lost subscribers.

Legacy APIs are deprecated - ie developers are encouraged not to use them. The only example I can think of is the loss of the Carbon APIs when macOS dropped support for 32 bit applications.
 

sparksd

macrumors G3
Jun 7, 2015
9,996
34,307
Seattle WA
It’s 100% on the developers. It’s a simple drop-down menu in Xcode to decide which versions of iOS to support. Xcode currently supports back to iOS 9, which covers everything from the iPad 2 and iPhone 4S up.

If Disney has decided not to support iOS 13 and earlier then it’s entirely their choice. They’ve decided that the benefits of easier development and testing outweigh the cost of lost subscribers.

Legacy APIs are deprecated - ie developers are encouraged not to use them. The only example I can think of is the loss of the Carbon APIs when macOS dropped support for 32 bit applications.

Right. From a vendor's perspective, is it worth the costs of on-going maintenance, testing, configuration management, and maintaining organizational knowledge of older OS versions? At some point, the answer is no, $ trumps all.
 

rui no onna

Contributor
Oct 25, 2013
14,918
13,261
If Disney has decided not to support iOS 13 and earlier then it’s entirely their choice. They’ve decided that the benefits of easier development and testing outweigh the cost of lost subscribers.

Seems like the last compatible version still works on iOS 13.



Maybe potentially iOS 12, too, with a reinstall?

https://www.reddit.com/r/DisneyPlus/comments/rc1xh1
 

ian87w

macrumors G3
Feb 22, 2020
8,704
12,638
Indonesia
Around the Air 1 model, the iPad had enough horsepower for my kid and wife to watch movies and play various games. At this point, I have three Air 1's, 2 Mini's and an Air 2 that still work perfectly fine, but have maxed out on IOS updates that have basically rendered them useless due to most apps requiring a later version.....even movie apps!! Trade and resale value is crap. You're literally forced to upgrade to a new device. I bought an Air 4 to replace my Air 2. Then bought an Air 5 and gave the Air 4 to wife. Kid to getting a Mini 6 next month for Bday.
When did you buy them? Would you want to buy your own used iPads today at however value you expected?
 

HDFan

Contributor
Jun 30, 2007
7,290
3,342
So because it was released 9 years ago it’s too old to watch a Peacock app, Paramount, Disney, etc….why? It should still be able to do those things, maybe not as good, sure.

Those streaming services didn't even exist 9 years ago. The APIs which they likely use didn't exist then either.


A bit of a dumb analogy. A 10 year old car can still go where a 2022 car can go. Takes the same gas, same tires, same roads.

Do we complain that a ten year old car isn’t like new? No…


Our 10 year old car no longer gets GPS updates. So yeah, the car analogy works 100%.

Lemme list the ways my 10 year old car isn't like new.

1. The google maps application no longer works as it was made obsolete.
2. With 3G being turned off all of my cellular options (Google Voice Search, Weather, Fuel Prices, Travel information, Flight information, Parking information, Point-of-interest search and Wi-Fi hotspot) are going away in Q2 2022.
3. The on-board GPS maps have to be loaded by the dealer for $700. Newer models allow for on-line updates.


and so on ....
 

Apple fan from Korea

macrumors regular
Mar 27, 2021
175
210
It’s equally asinine you typed this when those expectations haven’t been mentioned one time in this thread.
Ok, then what should we file a complaint about? Apps being incompatible? Or maybe resale value being low? ‘Cause of course Apple will solve those, right? ?
 

randomando

macrumors member
Nov 12, 2021
47
98
If you want a technical reason for why you are experiencing this: This is half an app developer's problem and half an architectural problem.

App developers decide the lowest OS version they choose to support. Developers want to use the latest technologies when they code. No developer wants to work on old technology. Using newer technologies and newer libraries = writing better code to a developer. Also when it comes to streaming apps I imagine that many of the technologies they want to update have security issues over time. (I.e. If Netflix had a specific way of streaming before that left itself open to having movies streamed without an account but fixing this breaks compatibility and requires updating the client version).

The other half is the missing piece that could bridge new code to old software. On the web there are technologies in place like Babel to transpile new code to support old browsers. Web developers can work on newer versions of JavaScript and have a transpiler modify the code to work on older browser versions. There are also polyfills for technologies that didn't exist. Some things are still impossible though. Old enough browsers can't screen capture and won't magically gain the ability to do so.

What about iOS?
On iOS the OS ships with specific framework versions that the apps rely on. This allows apps to have smaller download sizes and faster startup times because the standard set of system frameworks are already on the system and can be shared between apps and loaded in shared memory. When new framework versions become available their new / modified APIs are given a minimum OS version corresponding to that release. That's because those features only exist on the OS from that version.

So why don't we use transpilers / polyfills to fix these issues?
There are a decent amount of open source polyfills for newer APIs that developers can use. Most developers still would want to use what is supported by the OS. "Vanilla" and simple code is often seen as better because it only relies on first party (OS) APIs instead of some random third party. Because Swift is statically and strongly typed developers can't choose to use type A for newer systems and type B (a polyfill) for older systems and interact with OS APIs. The type provided by the OS is viewed as different than the type provided by the polyfill. You would have to rewrite parts of the code to avoid directly passing type B to the OS. So there are restrictions to using polyfills.

Regarding transpilers (and the like), Swift / Objective-C actually have a pretty good range of compatibility. The latest versions support down to iOS 9. SwiftUI (the newest UI library) however only supports iOS 13+ and I'm betting many developers want to use this.

Is it possible to put SwiftUI on older devices?
Yes, but it would require (most importantly) Apple to allow that and also developers to include that library in their app. Which is concerning for several reasons: app size, startup speeds, interplay with other apps, etc... Technically this was supported for the _Concurrency library which mainly supported async / await in newer Swift versions. It is however a smaller library than SwiftUI and is open source and less risky since its usage is very localized to a specific app.

Why in the first place?
Another thing to mention is that version adoption on iOS is a lot more uptick than other platforms. Developers could spend time supporting older versions but there isn't much to gain. If I only have X users on iOS 12 and I want to use SwiftUI I'm most likely going to bump the minimum version to iOS 13. Having developers support older versions for the sake of a handful of people just isn't reasonable.
 
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