What it's like to be color blind

[mkrishnan]

The result is that we spent a very educating time revisiting how users interact with our applications. The benefit was that we had a better product that was certainly easier to use by all.

Wow, that's really interesting. Thank you for sharing! Did you end up using a lot of color coding, but focus on contrasts that are easy to distinguish by intensity or whatever, even to those who have a color blindness, or did you end up using different means of communicating to the user in place of the color contrasts?

 

[Bosunsfate]

Well, we had orginally hoped we could do this on the cheap by going with adding symbols. The problem this quickly showed was that the display quickly would get crowded and the result was really more confusing.

Note, we build graphical planning and control tools for container ships and yards.

What we had to do was really look at what was the essential information really needed by the user, but the problem is that what is important for one user was different for another. So, the solution was to cut back what was standard information and allow the displayed attributes to be configurable.....this lead into the whole part about a redesign given the underlying architecture of the application.....say goodbye to the quick and easy change.

The result is that not only can a user configure what they want displayed and how they will view it....the way they can do that configuration is simple and easy to do....afterall, nobody reads a manual, nor remembers their training....

 

[w_parietti22]

Yeah, my friend cant tell the difference between Orange, Pink and Red. Like one time he had a RL Polo Shirt on with a pink Polo symbol and he thoght it was red when it was pink. it was pretty funny.

 

[kylos]

Another color blind member

You can add me to the list of color blind macrumors members. I have one of the red-green forms (apparently the opposite of Dr. Q). I sure couldn't see any three or 45's in those images. I don't notice it often, but a few things such as determining the difference between buddies who are available and idle in ichat (green/yellow) can be difficult. ichat allows you to use shapes for status indicators, but apple made them ugly, so I prefer not to use them. Also, I'll often confuse wire colors, and resistors are impossible to read.

Someone in the thread asked if colorblindness affected the ability to use 3d glasses to view images. I doubt they would, since the lenses are just filters, and the filtering takes place before your eye ever views the image, but I can't know for sure, since I have another eye condition which prevents me from having a normal depth of field. The brain is supposed to composite the images from both eyes to create a sense of depth, but my eyes don't work together like they're supposed to. As an example, I can hold my finger in front of my face and with both eyes open, alternately view my finger in two positions, simulating having one or the other eye closed, but I cannot view my finger in between those two positions as should happen if I had regular vision. I end up using my left eye (I think) most for position. Interestingly, this doesn't affect my peripheral vision. If I understand correctly, this is due to strabismus (cross-eye), which I had surgery to correct when I was two. Apparently, even a slight deviation in eye alignment can cause binocular failure. When I was younger, I ran into walls and freaked out the other kids when I attempted to look them straight in the eye as I hadn't figured out how to coordinate my eyes yet.

I've managed to handle these oddities for the most part, and really don't notice any difficulties with my vision any more (learning how to judge distances while driving occasionally produced some extreme misjudgments of available stopping distance, but I've been able to adapt), though I do wonder if it ever affects the way I interact with my environment.

 

[sushi]

I try to think of analogies to explain what it's like to be color blind. Here, for better or worse, are a few of them:

1. Suppose you tasted varieties of apples and tried to distinguish them. Some people might be able to distinguish many varieties and others might get similar types of apples confused. Some are more flavor sensitive than others because they have more capable taste buds on their tongues. It would be very rare for somebody to have no ability at all to distinguish one type of apple from another, but those who can distinguish a fewer-than-normal number might be considered "apple taste blind".

2. A creature from another planet shows up and tells you that he can distinguish blue from buel. He points out that the sky is blue but the car you call blue is buel. Others from the planet come along and agree with him. They can all tell the difference but you can't. You learn to call your car buel and the sky blue, but you wouldn't know it if the colors were swapped since they look the same to you. The aliens consider you to be color blind. To you, they seem to have a magic ability to tell two identical colors apart.

3. The waitress at Joe's Burger Shack asks if you want a large drink or a big drink. You say that "large" and "big" are the same, but she insists they are different. If you measure them carefully with instruments, you find that one cup is slightly taller and the other slightly wider. You can't tell them apart by looking but she clearly can. Then she brings you a "large" round plate of french fries and a "big" square plate of onion rings (nutritious meal, eh?). You can see that the plates have different shapes but can't tell which is considered "large" and which is considered "big". Even if you memorize the answers, you won't know which cheeseburger is the large one and which is the big one. The words are the same to you.

DrQ, this is very informative.

Technically, I am not color blind and can pass the color blind tests. However, some of them are very hard to distinguish the numbers/shapes so I do have an inkling of what it might be like. But your examples above and with the pics more clearly illustrate color blindness.

Question, what did Spock on the original Star Trek series look like compared to other people on the show. He was a bit green at first. However, since you see normal folks as somewhat green, I wonder if he looked different on screen.

 

[Doctor Q]

Question, what did Spock on the original Star Trek series look like compared to other people on the show. He was a bit green at first. However, since you see normal folks as somewhat green, I wonder if he looked different on screen.

I had no idea he wasn't a normal color. I'll have to rent The Trouble with Tribbles and take a look!

What about Data on Star Trek Next Generation?

His eyes always looked funny to me, but was his skin inhuman?

 

[Counterfit]

2. A creature from another planet shows up and tells you that he can distinguish blue from buel. He points out that the sky is blue but the car you call blue is buel. Others from the planet come along and agree with him. They can all tell the difference but you can't. You learn to call your car buel and the sky blue, but you wouldn't know it if the colors were swapped since they look the same to you. The aliens consider you to be color blind. To you, they seem to have a magic ability to tell two identical colors apart.

Hey, I can tell blue apart from buel!

I have a friend at school who's colorblind. Last year, someone gave him a box of 96 Crayola crayons with the labels removed.
I think my right eyes sees colors differently than my left as well. My right seems to be a little "warmer" and my left, a little "cooler" (in terms of color temperature).

What I've always wondered if we all really do see the same colors. What if we just called them the same thing, but saw them differently? Suppose swapping eyes would let you see what someone else sees. Their green might be your blue or orange. There's really no way to test for that I guess.

 

[AliensAreFuzzy]

My name is Dan (waits for obligatory AA style "Hi Dan"), and I am color blind.

 

[dotdotdot]

Here is another type of color blindness test: 10 slides where you identify which colored dot looks most like the one in the center. It points out each mistake as you go, so for me it says "You have just made a Protanomalous type of matching error" after most of them, confirming what I already know.

Edit: This link no longer works for me.

Woah, took it, got one wrong, clicked back to the one I got wrong, and then looking at it again, I saw the right answer, very clearly...

Hmmm... SilentPanda and dotdotdot and I are color blind and all have black and white avatars! How suspicious!

I see some other avatars in this thread that are shades of gray too. I wonder if this is just a coincidence.

It is a coincidence for my avatar, since I change it now and then and it just happens to be about some black and white creatures at the moment.

Um... well actually, those are yellow dots. And I can see the yellow clearly

 

[Doctor Q]

I just took that test, and I scored 10/10; I have to say, though, that there was one near the beginning of the test that showed green in the middle and two shades of greens as the two possible "right" answers. That one threw me for a little loop.

Doctor Q, which ones did you get wrong? Were they all the same type of error?

#1 Protanomalous type of matching error
#2 Deutanomalous type of matching error
#3 Deutanomalous type of matching error
#4 Protanomalous type of matching error
#5 Protanomalous type of matching error
#6 Protanomalous type of matching error
#7 Correct! I'm duh man!
#8 Protanomalous type of matching error
#9 Protanomalous type of matching error
#10 Protanomalous type of matching error

I'm guess I'm not gonna get that job as an interior decorator after all.

And I won't be the one you call to defuse the bomb. "I said to cut the red wire, not the brown wire!!!!" BOOM!

 

[DCapple]

#1 Protanomalous type of matching error
#2 Deutanomalous type of matching error
#3 Deutanomalous type of matching error
#4 Protanomalous type of matching error
#5 Protanomalous type of matching error
#6 Protanomalous type of matching error
#7 Correct! I'm duh man!
#8 Protanomalous type of matching error
#9 Protanomalous type of matching error
#10 Protanomalous type of matching error

I'm guess I'm not gonna get that job as an interior decorator after all.

And I won't be the one you call to defuse the bomb. "I said to cut the red wire, not the brown wire!!!!" BOOM!

too sad... dont worry im pretty sure you'll have a job that doesnt require color recognizing...cheer up!

 

[me_94501]

I think my right eyes sees colors differently than my left as well. My right seems to be a little "warmer" and my left, a little "cooler" (in terms of color temperature).

Guess what? Same here. But it depends on the type of lighting; I notice it more when I'm outside than when I'm inside.

What I've always wondered if we all really do see the same colors. What if we just called them the same thing, but saw them differently? Suppose swapping eyes would let you see what someone else sees. Their green might be your blue or orange. There's really no way to test for that I guess.

I've wondered the same thing myself.

 

[sushi]

I had no idea he wasn't a normal color. I'll have to rent The Trouble with Tribbles and take a look!

What about Data on Star Trek Next Generation?

His eyes always looked funny to me, but was his skin inhuman?

Didn't notice his eyes that much. Need to take a look.

Data's skin is a bit different -- more of a pasty light brown cream color (?). More so in the movies than the TV show.

 

[iMeowbot]

Data's skin is a bit different -- more of a pasty light brown cream color (?). More so in the movies than the TV show.

He's supposed to be gold, but it didn't show up well. The eyes were yellow.

 

[commonpeople]

1) First of all we're all almost completely color blind, so I don't feel that sorry for those who are a little more color blind than others. I doubt very many of us lay awake at night lamenting that we can't see into the ultraviolet spectrum. From a physics point of view it's really ridiculous to think that any of us are seeing the 'true' colors. OK, so it makes it a little harder to play video games and look at some art. Still- we're all lucky enough, smart enough (and rich enough) to own Macs, so life can't be that bad!

2) What I really want to know is whether color-blind people experience the 'qualia' of (e.g.) redness in the same way that others do. I'm interested in these people who are only color blind in one eye- presumably they can tell that the colors look different in their 'bad' eye - or do they just renormalize things so that their senstations match up as close as possible to the different input signals?

There's an interesting theory that bats may well perceive sonar echolocations as 3-D color objects in an analagous way to how we perceive the physical spectrum. So a bat might well associate the subjective feeling of red with a particular sonar signal. Is the same true of color-blind people- or do they just never experience 'redness' in the same way?

 

[sushi]

He's supposed to be gold, but it didn't show up well. The eyes were yellow.

Thanks, I will take another look.

 

[emw]

1) First of all we're all almost completely color blind, so I don't feel that sorry for those who are a little more color blind than others. I doubt very many of us lay awake at night lamenting that we can't see into the ultraviolet spectrum.

First, I don't think this is about "feeling sorry" for people - it's about understanding a limitation in their ability to see things like the majority of the population. Saying that their "disability" isn't that much worse than ours, relative to the general population's ability to see the entire spectrum of light, is a little, well, insensitive.

It's like saying that since humans can't run 50 miles an hour like a cheetah we shouldn't need to make any accommodations for people who are paralyzed.

 

[Doctor Q]

--- Online ---

Now and then I come across a website that uses red-on-black text. I can barely make out such text. I imagine it's like trying to read pale yellow on white for most of you.

Rather than deal with it (with software, for example), I simply give up on that page. There are plenty of other websites I can visit instead.

--- Print ---

Newsweek, one of the worst offenders among printed publications when it comes to accommodating the color blind, had some red-on-black text in an article I came to this morning. I could have asked somebody to read it to me, taken it in bright sunlight and maybe been able to figure it out, held colored filters in front of my eyes, or just skipped it. I chose the latter.

Newsweek also loves to use graphs, pie charts, etc. with 10 shades of tan instead of choosing more distinct colors, so many of their graphs are useless to me. I've complained to them, but they seem to be "hearing deficient". They could even keep these colors and add patterns (dots, dashes, stripes, etc.) to the color-shaded areas, so that they can be distinguished without color at all, but they have yet to bother. I guess I'm their only color blind subscriber.

--- Panasonic ---

When I was in Japan, I visited the Panasonic Center in Osaka, where they display the latest Panasonic high-tech consumer electronics and home appliances. I was impressed that they had a display about the use of color in home products that would accommodate the color blind, and examples of color-coded labels on gadgets to accomplish that. But nearby that display was a counter with a small kitchen appliance that used colored lights that I couldn't distinguish.

Our hostess there, who followed us around taking notes on how we reacted to the displays, was very interested once she learned I was color blind, and asked me if "color blind" was the correct phrase, and whether it was considered polite to say it to people. I answered yes and yes, and also pointed out that they hadn't followed their own guidelines. She scribbled it down in her pad. Perhaps they'll change the colors and the color blind will once again be able to make toast!

 

[commonpeople]

First, I don't think this is about "feeling sorry" for people - it's about understanding a limitation in their ability to see things like the majority of the population. Saying that their "disability" isn't that much worse than ours, relative to the general population's ability to see the entire spectrum of light, is a little, well, insensitive.

It's like saying that since humans can't run 50 miles an hour like a cheetah we shouldn't need to make any accommodations for people who are paralyzed.

Au contraire. I feel sorry for paralyzed people. I don't feel too bad that some people can only walk/run 60% of normal speed. It kinda sucks if you're that person, but it's not a tragedy, especially now that we've all got cars.

I agree though, it's not about 'feeling sorry' for people, and I don't.

 

[Counterfit]

Guess what? Same here. But it depends on the type of lighting; I notice it more when I'm outside than when I'm inside.


I've wondered the same thing myself.

Get out of my head!

 

[Shamus]

*joins the support meeting*

I don't see anything in the image either. I try to tell people I'm more of an 8 Crayola kinda guy. You'll never hear me refer to something as "Maroon" or "Navy Blue". I just call things by the standard 8 colors in the small Crayola box.

[/URL]

I always wondered why your avatar was of a blue panda...

 

[Shamus]

I've always claimed that this is why I'm usually in a good mood. I'm very slow to anger because you won't make me "see red".

LOL. Good one.
I have also just noticed that doctor Q and Silent panda, whom have both said are colour blind, BOTH have a black and white avatar...
...Interesting.

 

[UKnjb]

"Grape soda is purple." "Jeans are blue." If I run into blue grape soda or purple jeans, I wouldn't know the difference, but I call them the colors I've learned are correct without thinking. I assume that cake frosting is pink and not gray because I've never heard of gray frosting. I'm so used to octagonal stop signs being red that I'd assume anything dark that said "STOP" was red and probably that any dark octagonal sign was red.

The shades and objects for which you make color assumptions may be different than mine, UKnjb, but I'd expect that you have similar habits.

OK. But not up to any point that I can relate to. This is a late reply as I have only just seen a perfect example of why your explanation doesn't work (for me). Watching on TV a game of hockey from the Commonweath Games. There was no sun when the game started and the grass on which they were playing was a deep "vrety" colour. In the second half of the game, the sun was obviously shining and the colour of the grass was now "twach". The latter had no relation to the former. As I was watching, I was trying to convince myself that your idea was correct and that I could learn that the colour of grass was indeed "vrety" and that if I put my mind to it, I could see it as such when the sun had come out. But it was not so. They were totally different "colours". My partner, watching with me, told me that she could see the grass was obviously green, to her, under both circumstances of dark and light, but that in the latter, the hue had changed. Bu they were still so obviously the same colour to her.

My point is that, with something so obvious as grass, with the colour shifting (with my perception) so easily depending on the ambient circumstances, I cannot 'learn' these things. Association of something with having a particular "colour" would surely need a constant set of reference points, like lighting etc. for your theory to work, at least for me. That it doesn't work is not to disagree with your theory; it just doesn't work for me and my own particular set of colour-vision defects. And also, therefore, I don't think I can share your habits on accomodating unknown, but related, objects. What may have the colour "vrety" over there has the colour "twach" over here and they may well change anyway if someone turns another light on in the room.

Did I really write all that tortuous and obscure stuff? Sorry. My brain hurts.

As my closing remark on this matter, doesn't all of the correspondence in this fascinating thread indicate how difficult it is to convey in precise and readily-understood terms how colour is perceived by different individuals?

 

[Doctor Q]

Which witch is which?

Here is a frame of Dorothy and the Wicked Witch from The Wizard of Oz. This should show you why I never knew that the witch wasn't normal-colored.

In the true frame on the left, I'm told that Dorothy is pinkish and the witch is green. On the right you see how the frame looks to me. I'm told that both are yellowish with a hint of green. When I've done the same with other frames, they come out a little more greenish. In all cases, Dorothy and the witch come out the same color.

The left and right frames look exactly the same to me, so what you see on the right is what people with either "flesh"-colored skin or green skin look like to me.

I can call that color "flesh" or I can call it "green" because they are both the same to me. Two names for the same color. When I describe a person, I'd say he/she was flesh-colored, because I know that's what to say. If I saw a car the same color, I'd say it was green, because people don't use the word "flesh" for car colors.

Some people consider the words "purple" and "violet" to be two names for the same color. Others consider violet to be the purer shade, and purple to be a more reddish version of violet. To me, purple, violet, and blue are the same, one color I could call by any of those names. Or I could call it bluvurple. Because red adds darkness but not red to what I see, I usually guess that darker shades of bluverple are purple and medium and lighter shades are blue. Occasionally I'm even right, but that didn't stop me from buying my wife a purple dress that I thought was such a nice blue.

 

[iBlue]

Here is a frame of Dorothy and the Wicked Witch from The Wizard of Oz. This should show you why I never knew that the witch wasn't normal-colored.

wow, the witch looks a lot scarier with your vision Q. the green made her seem more storybook-like but without it she just looks evil creepy. quick, get the water!