What makes a MBP better than the E1505?

[generik]

Fighting with a arrogant people is like fighting a 2 year old. Yes-huh, Nu-uh, Yes-huh, Nu-uh.

My step-dad take for example. He wants a 13 inch computer, for cheap that is powerful, and would work great. He sees a sony viao and starts drooling. i say "why don't you just get a Macbook, then you could have OS X and windows. You'd have a computer that is reliable and built really well, plus the best of both worlds."

He replies "because I dont want a Mac"

I say "Why not its cheaper than the viao and equally built quality if not better. Aren't you going for cheaper anyways?"

He replies "I am going for cheaper, but I dont want a Mac"

I guess the point is. Even when the Macbook has equal features and is cheaper it doesn't matter really.

So maybe it doesn't prove the point to well... but you really can't have logical arguments.

It is not illogical. Hey, even though most lusers out there will struggle with keeping spyware and viruses off their Windows "PeeCees" and can actually do quite with the same degree of "loserity" on MacOS, but Pro users (not the bearded artistic kinds, but the real people who did Computer Sciences and IT) understand the why behind the "Microsoft sucks", and take measures to mitigate it.

End result?

You have a locked down platform that is capable of running under 1% of all software titles in the world vs a platform that can be locked down which is capable of running 90+% of the software in the world.

You can argue till you are blue in the face about how one app on MacOS is > 100 apps on Windows. Oh yeah? Find me an equivalent for...

Alcohol 120%
Exact Audio Copy

Heck, in fact if you want to use certain third party optical writers you even need to install something cheesy like http://www.patchburn.de/download.html

Oh, and by the way Microsoft Media Player actually works in full screen for free. What's so pro about playing a video in full screen? Seriously that notion actually makes me associate "pro" with "moron".

On such an overpriced computer which Apple purportedly spent so much of their margins developing they can't even offer full screen video playback?!

Incidentally these points are the first ones that roll off the top of my head, and I have not even began to scratch the even the tip of the iceberg.

Simply put. Windows = choice. Mac = dictatorship. And I don't like being told what and what not to do, and what and what not to like.

 

[gnasher729]

So he comes to class today, and says the E1505 can be had with just about the same specs as the MBP but right now for only $1100 as opposed to $2499. How does one refute that!?

By checking the numbers. Get the specs for the MacBook Pro (2 GHz, 1 GB, including all the software), go to the Dell page, check out the E-1505 and add everything to make it equivalent, then compare prices. It is not $2499 vs. $1100. You don't pay $2499 for the MacBook Pro, and you don't get the Dell for $1100.

Then try getting the price for a machine that can run both MacOS X and Windows XP. How much do you pay for a Dell that can do that?

 

[Killyp]

Concerning the exact wording of the OP, I bet that kid's dad owns, say a BMW 5 series. Beautiful car, but you can get a Lotus elise for half the price which will be faster.

Which would you rather own? The Lotus, or the BMW?


That doesn't meen to say, Macs are slower. Just show him the benchmarks of the latest processors out there. The Core Duos are right at the top.

 

[generik]

Then try getting the price for a machine that can run both MacOS X and Windows XP. How much do you pay for a Dell that can do that?

Two points.

1) Boot camp is currently in beta.

2) Overpaying Apple for the previlege of running Mac OS on a computer equipped with a big brother chip does not really equate to an advantage. On the Apple, the user chooses to get blackmailed. For the Dell user he refuses to yield. There is no technical reason why MacOS can't run on the Dell apart from Apple's business model.

 

[poppe]

It is not illogical. Hey, even though most lusers out there will struggle with keeping spyware and viruses off their Windows "PeeCees" and can actually do quite with the same degree of "loserity" on MacOS, but Pro users (not the bearded artistic kinds, but the real people who did Computer Sciences and IT) understand the why behind the "Microsoft sucks", and take measures to mitigate it.

End result?

You have a locked down platform that is capable of running under 1% of all software titles in the world vs a platform that can be locked down which is capable of running 90+% of the software in the world.

You can argue till you are blue in the face about how one app on MacOS is > 100 apps on Windows. Oh yeah? Find me an equivalent for...

Alcohol 120%
Exact Audio Copy

Heck, in fact if you want to use certain third party optical writers you even need to install something cheesy like http://www.patchburn.de/download.html

Oh, and by the way Microsoft Media Player actually works in full screen for free. What's so pro about playing a video in full screen? Seriously that notion actually makes me associate "pro" with "moron".

On such an overpriced computer which Apple purportedly spent so much of their margins developing they can't even offer full screen video playback?!

Incidentally these points are the first ones that roll off the top of my head, and I have not even began to scratch the even the tip of the iceberg.

Simply put. Windows = choice. Mac = dictatorship. And I don't like being told what and what not to do, and what and what not to like.

I guess i dont understand why its not not logical? If you could explain.

This is the way I see it: By a Sony Viao (this is in best buy but don't know model) with same specs practically as the macbook, but the macbook is actually cheaper.

Why shouldn't he buy it? He says he is shopping best bang for buck and if Macbook is a little cheaper then whats the logic?

 

[Topono]

Sheesh... I thought this post was made to help a guy who wanted to tell a kid in his class how Macs are better from his perspective. Now it's an angry ball of hate. HATE I SAY! There are people who prefer PCs and Windows; there always will be. No need to fight over it. Stick to your personal opinion and don't try and ridicule other people's opinions.
Many people here on MR have Macs and love them. There are a few trolls *cough*inthisthread*cough*, but that was bound to happen the way this topic was going. To the OP, like many have said, you don't need to tell him why Macs are better than, in my opinion, a somewhat crappy Dell. YOU have a Mac, and YOU know why they are better. Anyways, I'm done preaching, so to try and avoid this soon-to-be flame war, I'm going to hide in this brown box here. It's the perfect disguise! *Hides* No one will find me here!

 

[jaxstate]

I agree. Someone said that Dell's can't run OSX. Yeah they can, it's been done already. Thing is, Apple won't allow it to happen. To the OP, why would you even car about what type of computer someone else uses. Saying "my computer is better than yours", isn't gonna changed anyone's mind. If a person wants to use a Dell, then so be it.

Two points.

1) Boot camp is currently in beta.

2) Overpaying Apple for the previlege of running Mac OS on a computer equipped with a big brother chip does not really equate to an advantage. On the Apple, the user chooses to get blackmailed. For the Dell user he refuses to yield. There is no technical reason why MacOS can't run on the Dell apart from Apple's business model.

 

[generik]

I guess i dont understand why its not not logical? If you could explain.

This is the way I see it: By a Sony Viao (this is in best buy but don't know model) with same specs practically as the macbook, but the macbook is actually cheaper.

Why shouldn't he buy it? He says he is shopping best bang for buck and if Macbook is a little cheaper then whats the logic?

Most probably this..

Since you so conveniently choose to forget about it, chances are the Vaio actually has a magnesium alloy shell, a previlege that you need to pay an extra one grand for on Apple hardware to not get.

The Vaio just works out of the box, for the Macbook you get a cheap plastic computer which needs an extra $250 for a windows xp license and having to rely on a piece of beta software before you can even get rolling.

Need I go on?

 

[poppe]

deleted

 

[generik]

Why are you always I smart A**? Your post was just unclear...

It is unclear because you choose to be delusional.

What's so unclear about the post?

Case in point, a recent switcher I got. When she got the Mac she was to say.. rather underwhelmed by the whole "Apple lifestyle" bull.

1) I can't use the Mini CDs I have on the computer.
2) Why can't the green maximize button do what it is supposed to do?
3) Why do some windows have the red X button deactivated? How do I close it?
4) Do you know of any software for Mac that does <something>. (the answer is no)
5) How do I upgrade the memory? (It was a Mac Mini, so the official word on that is it is not user serviceable)

So what else do I tell her? "haha! basically I was suckered, and now I suckered you to get suckered too just so we can get suckered together!"

The way I see it this is exactly what's going on in forums like these, people buy their shoddy inferior overpriced toys, they start getting post purchase dissonance, they start being verbal about perceived advantages of their choice to justify their decision and convince themselves that they are not fools.

Don't worry, it is human nature. You can still be helped at your local shrink

 

[Killyp]

No the Vaio doesn't have an aluminium alloy or anything fancy. In fact the most fancy thing Sony makes it's Vaios out of is plastic, coated in a thin layer of aluminium, and that's only the top model.


Also, give me the name of a decent Sony laptop. I bet it's no more than a reference number. Would you buy a car called the X8059EH? No.

 

[poppe]

No the Vaio doesn't have an aluminium alloy or anything fancy. In fact the most fancy thing Sony makes it's Vaios out of is plastic, coated in a thin layer of aluminium, and that's only the top model.


Also, give me the name of a decent Sony laptop. I bet it's no more than a reference number. Would you buy a car called the X8059EH? No.

He said Magnesium tho... Are they made out of plastic or Magnesium. The ones I've seen all were plastic except the bottom I think.

Wow is that what I'm reading... I must be delusional

 

[benthewraith]

Well. This kind of sucks. I did a speech the other day for class on why you should by a Mac. This guy picked a fight with me. I saw it coming, but yeah.

So he comes to class today, and says the E1505 can be had with just about the same specs as the MBP but right now for only $1100 as opposed to $2499. How does one refute that!?

I mean, I would buy the MBP. But how do you convince someone who loves Dell and things that are cheap into buying one?

I am having a tough time with this. When I buy an Apple computer, I usually look for a deal, like the used market or just do the Edu discount. But for someone who goes straight to the source and is incapable of finding deals, what incentive is there to buy a Mac in this Windows world.

Sorry, for going all over the place. I just really wish I had something to come back with. I mean, there is so much more that you get when you buy a MBP over a Dell, but these things don't seem to matter to someone who wants it cheap.

*Frustration*

Hmm, the fact that the Macbook Pro has an operating system that is guaranteed to work with it, doens't get viruses, and crashes a lot less frequently (yes, I've had the Black Screen of Death on a Mac okay....note:not a blue screen). Also, is based off unix, instead of crappy arse windows networking. Much much much better GUI are just a few reasons.

 

[poppe]

It is unclear because you choose to be delusional.

What's so unclear about the post?

Case in point, a recent switcher I got. When she got the Mac she was to say.. rather underwhelmed by the whole "Apple lifestyle" bull.

1) I can't use the Mini CDs I have on the computer.
2) Why can't the green maximize button do what it is supposed to do?
3) Why do some windows have the red X button deactivated? How do I close it?
4) Do you know of any software for Mac that does <something>. (the answer is no)
5) How do I upgrade the memory? (It was a Mac Mini, so the official word on that is it is not user serviceable)

So what else do I tell her? "haha! basically I was suckered, and now I suckered you to get suckered too just so we can get suckered together!"

The way I see it this is exactly what's going on in forums like these, people buy their shoddy inferior overpriced toys, they start getting post purchase dissonance, they start being verbal about perceived advantages of their choice to justify their decision and convince themselves that they are not fools.

Don't worry, it is human nature. You can still be helped at your local shrink

Actually I dont have a Mac. I can't afford one. I would like to get one yes, but I can't afford one yet. So I'm not trying to justify anything. I was trying to justify to him that if you could save yourself (from what I remember the price being) $400 and then take 250 and use that to have boot camp. You'd still have a nice windows machine, with OS X for a cherry on top. Oh yeah and 150 big ones left...

 

[jaxstate]

You think "Macbook" and "Macbook Pro" are decent names. I wouldn't add the name of the computer to the equation when deciding to buy a computer or not.

No the Vaio doesn't have an aluminium alloy or anything fancy. In fact the most fancy thing Sony makes it's Vaios out of is plastic, coated in a thin layer of aluminium, and that's only the top model.


Also, give me the name of a decent Sony laptop. I bet it's no more than a reference number. Would you buy a car called the X8059EH? No.

 

[generik]

No the Vaio doesn't have an aluminium alloy or anything fancy. In fact the most fancy thing Sony makes it's Vaios out of is plastic, coated in a thin layer of aluminium, and that's only the top model.

You sure you want to stake your argument on that 2nd assertion? Anyway, even if that were the case it is not like you can't get a *real metal* shell at that price range anyway. I'd look at LG and Fujitsus.

Made in real places like Korea and Japan too, instead of some communist place where Apple basically have the parts turn into so called computers.

Also, give me the name of a decent Sony laptop. I bet it's no more than a reference number. Would you buy a car called the X8059EH? No.

Seriously, what it is called does not matter in the slightest to me. So by your line of reasoning you will reject a girl (assuming you are not like the majority of the Mac using population) based solely on her facial appearance, or even what her parents choose to call her?

Oh....



Talk about being so superficial and shallow.... I rest my case.

 

[Killyp]

Wow is that what I'm reading... I must be delusional
__________________
No longer Banned!!!!

Tread carefully my friend.

 

[Killyp]

You think "Macbook" and "Macbook Pro" are decent names. I wouldn't add the name of the computer to the equation when deciding to buy a computer or not.

I would. I don't buy things which have stupid names I can't remember. If a manufacturer can't even invent a decent name for their product, do you really think they're going to have innovated with it?

 

[poppe]

You sure you want to stake your argument on that 2nd assertion? Anyway, even if that were the case it is not like you can't get a *real metal* shell at that price range anyway. I'd look at LG and Fujitsus.

Made in real places like Korea and Japan too, instead of some communist place where Apple basically have the parts turn into so called computers.



Seriously, what it is called does not matter in the slightest to me. So by your line of reasoning you will reject a girl (assuming you are not like the majority of the Mac using population) based solely on her facial appearance, or even what her parents choose to call her?

Oh....



Talk about being so superficial and shallow.... I rest my case.

You are probbably right it would be better to get those two computers in that price range. But he doensn't want a fujitsu or a LG. What he liked was the Viao. So it was not a question of Mac Vs. All it was Mac vs. Sony Viao.

 

[jaxstate]

I may own one, but I think Macbook is a stupid name, but I bought it for what it does and not for what it is named.

I would. I don't buy things which have stupid names I can't remember. If a manufacturer can't even invent a decent name for their product, do you really think they're going to have innovated with it?

 

[Mac Rules]

That one-inch is a real dealbreaker, isn't it?

You try explaining that to the girlfriend!

Cheers

 

[generik]

I would. I don't buy things which have stupid names I can't remember. If a manufacturer can't even invent a decent name for their product, do you really think they're going to have innovated with it?

Yeah, I really see your point in this.

"Apple Macbook Pro! Now with 50% more profit margin and our all new patent pending Whine & Moo(tm) technology supercharged with our Premium Testicle Steriler(tm) functionality! Also comes with basically everything that came with our competition 15 years ago (namely real Intel processors) as well as an innovative power cable that won't stay plugged in!"

What other innovative features are there?

The antennas that are built in the lid coated with rubber? Oh how innovative, nevermind that it is to mitigate the stupid design decision to make a portable computer (you know, one which a user actually touches) with aluminium instead of anything else. Oh, perhaps while they are at it they should coat the whole laptop with rubber, seeing as to how it gets scratched and dinged so easily.

 

[generik]

I may own one, but I think Macbook is a stupid name, but I bought it for what it does and not for what it is named.

MacBook! Mac Bork! Bork Bork! Pok pok key!

Chicken computers?

 

[Topono]

So by your line of reasoning you will reject a girl (assuming you are not like the majority of the Mac using population) based solely on her facial appearance, or even what her parents choose to call her?

I thought we were talking about machines, not actual human beings who are living, have emotion, and have binocular vision.

 

[generik]

I thought we were talking about machines, not actual human beings who are living, have emotion, and have binocular vision.

Doesn't matter, a superficial and shallow person is always a superficial and shallow person.

Besides what's so bad about "X8059EH"? That's right, Sonys don't even have a name that bad, the OP made it purely out of his excrement hole. Likewise what's so good about "Macbook"? Or "iMac"?

Imagine calling tech support.

luser: "Hello, hi, my iMac is not working."
tech: "Can you please tell me which iMac it is?"
luser: "It is a 2Ghz iMac"
tech: "Is it G5 or Intel?"
luser: "I don't know.. I bought it this year.."
tech: "When you bought it was it on clearance?"
luser: "When I bought it, it was very expensive compared to other PCs"
tech: "Ok..."
tech: "Does it have a camera?"
luser: "Is it the little hole above the screen?"
.......

Save all that crap, I rather just have a computer that I can identify instantly and without any ambiguity "X8059EH".