Generik said:
Two things above in the emboldened statement: what's it supposed to mean? And assuming that what you mean and what I think you mean is on par, why does it matter? What exactly is the relevance of that statement?
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What makes a MBP better than the E1505?
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Two things above in the emboldened statement: what's it supposed to mean? And assuming that what you mean and what I think you mean is on par, why does it matter? What exactly is the relevance of that statement?
So let's say you're in school (dunno if that's what you do, but I do it) and the conversation with your mates goes a bit like this:
Me: Hey, I got a new laptop!
Mate: Cool! How much did it cost?
Me: £1500! It's awesome!
Mate: Oh oh, which laptop is it?
Me: It's the X77849UIP-H
Mate: Oh, right...
What's this about Apple not innovating?
Let me see now, a screen which adapts to the brightness of your room, a keyboard which lights up when it gets dark, a magnetic power adapter which won't stay in if you stretch the power cord across a road, a built in webcam which doesn't make the screen so thick that the laptop falls over backwards when it's more than 90º from the rest of the machine, an OS which is 6 years ahead of everything else on the market, an ethernet card which can configure itself depending on which cable is used, instant plug and play networking, no need for external soundcards for low-latency audio playback, a decent sized trackpad, dual core processors, remote control for zero-set up or kerfuffle media center capability, the ability to run two screens at completely independant resolutions without restarting, a one inch think case... (the list goes on)
Not to forget the best design yet to be seen on a laptop.
How many other laptops have all, or even a quarter of those things?
Me: Hey, I got a new laptop!
Mate: Cool! How much did it cost?
Me: £1500! It's awesome!
Mate: Oh oh, which laptop is it?
Me: It's the X77849UIP-H
Mate: Oh, right...
What's this about Apple not innovating?
Let me see now, a screen which adapts to the brightness of your room, a keyboard which lights up when it gets dark, a magnetic power adapter which won't stay in if you stretch the power cord across a road, a built in webcam which doesn't make the screen so thick that the laptop falls over backwards when it's more than 90º from the rest of the machine, an OS which is 6 years ahead of everything else on the market, an ethernet card which can configure itself depending on which cable is used, instant plug and play networking, no need for external soundcards for low-latency audio playback, a decent sized trackpad, dual core processors, remote control for zero-set up or kerfuffle media center capability, the ability to run two screens at completely independant resolutions without restarting, a one inch think case... (the list goes on)
Not to forget the best design yet to be seen on a laptop.
How many other laptops have all, or even a quarter of those things?
benthewraith said:
Just so we are clear on things, so that I don't offend the wrong crowd unnecessarily (ie: the males who like the pretty white computers, or the females who like the masculine PM/PB stylings).
What's wrong with that? I don't like pretty white computers, and I like masculine looking industrial designs. Some others may, by virtue of genetics, or choice, or exposure to "culture" in their field of work (namely the artistic crowd) and have different ideas.
I certainly didn't want to suggest to a male who is not into women that he'd reject a woman based on reasons that aren't true. He'd reject a woman regardless.
Edit: Male by birth, man by choice.
Killyp said:
Tell us frankly.. you made that model number up right?
Killyp said:
Sure, all those are nice features, but let's not forget the issues plaguing macs either.
The issues affect everyone, not everyone needs the perks. How often does our sassy college-going Jane Doe get affected by the smart LAN cable detection?
How often does she get sweaty palms each day? Windows XP can change resolution without restarting too, hello? You still stuck on Linux on the PC world?
An OS that is 6 years ahead of anything on the market, sure, it is too advanced to run the bulk of the world's software. Or I can just cut to the chase and simply ask source please. And no, sources with "Mac" and "Apple" in them are not independent sources.
In fact that list while very nice, and impressive sounding, think about how many of the features you named can't be just as easily struck off the list because it also exists in Windows XP? Hmm.. not so many left, and I don't care about what's left.
1) When I'm in Excel for Windows and have three different spread sheets open, it looks like I have three copies of Excel running at once. Why, when I close one spreadsheet does it then go and close the other two spreadsheets and exit all three copies of Excel?generik said:
2) How do I do a screen capture in Windows? I'm confused. When I press the clearly labled button on the keyboad, nothing happens.
3) About once a day, my start button/task bar disappears for a few seconds. When it comes back, it doesn't show all of the icons that were by the clock before it reset itself. When I try to start those programs again, it says that they're already running, but I don't see them. Where are they?
4) I just downloaded something called an ISO file from the web. When I click on it, it doesn't do anything. How do I open it? How do I burn it?
5) Can you please tell me how to do <x> in Windows? (the answer is way too frequently "buy a 3rd party program").
Point is, the list for people switching from Windows to OS X and vice-versa can go on for quite awhile.
Isn't the mini the only Apple product that the average person would struggle adding more memory to, and that's because of it's unique design?
generik said:
You know, people that use Macs all their lives ask similar questions about Windows. Except, a lot more of them.
And that's NOT what the green button is *supposed* to do. There is not, and never has been, a "maximize" button on Macs... it is the fit-to-content button. It's intelligent, efficient window-resizing. Something you apparently can't grasp. It's been that way since years before Windows 95 introduced the maximize button. If you refuse to un-learn years of inefficient screen use by maximizing everything, then go buy a PC.
I believe Front Row plays in full screen and that's free - and guess what it uses quicktime to do it! And playing full screen is not ther only feature of quicktime pro. Media Player is a Joke - and it's free for Mac too.
Furthermore expanded choice doesn't make for a better platform especially when most of that choice is rubbish software that's most likely incompatible with one chipset or another in x pc. What software for PC would you recommend instead of logic pro for those who use TDM hardware? Don't know?
Show me something, anything in the PC world that is innovative. Hmmm that's a tough one. Just more of the same old - oh but this ones a bit faster.
Oh and do you call your parents Mum and Dad or Aunt and Uncle? Seems those terms are basically interchangable in your case
benthewraith said:
Actually, neither Windows nor Mac OS have crashed on my laptop... but Mac OS does get that stupid spinning pinwheel crap frequently. If I was choosing a OS based on speed / memory usage -- I'd choose Windows.
I've also never had a virus on my Windows PCs. Why? I'm not retarded. No virus scanners either.
Give it time and viruses will spawn for Mac OS X. The more you brag about there not being any, the more you taunt virus developers.
By the way... Windows 2000 and higher use the same BSD TCP/IP implementation that OS X does
Good try with the networking.Killyp said:
Obviously you aren't too classy.
Mercedes, BMW, Lexus, etc... they all use ridiculous model numbers that I can't remember, but apparently they are better :]
Honestly, I like names better, but they mean nothing. Apple named all their laptops Powerbooks/iBooks up to this point, but they varied quite a bit over the years. Model names differentiate the computer. Dell's Exx05 model numbers are quite good.
aristobrat said:
Hrmmm, if I'm not wrong, it warns you about that. You clicked the wrong button. You're just dumb.
I don't see a "screen capture" button on the keyboard. I must have been using different keyboards than you for the past 17 years or so... because there has never been a "screen capture" button.
They're probably in some ghost town you made up in your head, or consumed by a virus that you installed because you were looking for free porn.
If you are downloading an ISO, you are smart enough to know what to do with it... and if you don't, then you don't deserve to be downloading Linux or pirating warez or whatever you kids do nowadays.
I rarely hear this question. Most people just want to browse the web, write a paper, or do their taxes. Both Mac OS and Windows allow the first one, and both require 3rd party programs for the other two.
The average person would take their computer to BestBuy to add memory
Do you guys read the stuff you post here objectively? It's quite funny how you seem to think that the "style" of one product justifies a thousand dollar difference in price. Or that a "name" is somehow a indication of innovation.
Don't get me wrong, I love my MBP. But the Dells are overall a better deal economically. There are things OSX can do that Xp can't, and vice versa. But they basically do the same thing. If you want a machine that you can browse the internet, write a document, play some games (oops, sorry mac), play movies/music, organize your schedule etc etc then BOTH Dells (and Hps, IBMs, Compaqs, etc) and Macs do them all fine. It's all a matter of taste, and since taste is subjective, no one has the right to say that one is universally better than the other. There are too many personal preferences and tastes to even come close to making a totally true statement. It's just a stupid argument to have, and there are too many people wasting thier time on it, including me. Just get over it.
The funny thing is, it's always the mac people who are instigating it (at least in my experiences.. the switch ads, and mac/pc adds come to mind). They are like the house guest who won't stop trying to convince you to join their religion.
Don't get me wrong, I love my MBP. But the Dells are overall a better deal economically. There are things OSX can do that Xp can't, and vice versa. But they basically do the same thing. If you want a machine that you can browse the internet, write a document, play some games (oops, sorry mac), play movies/music, organize your schedule etc etc then BOTH Dells (and Hps, IBMs, Compaqs, etc) and Macs do them all fine. It's all a matter of taste, and since taste is subjective, no one has the right to say that one is universally better than the other. There are too many personal preferences and tastes to even come close to making a totally true statement. It's just a stupid argument to have, and there are too many people wasting thier time on it, including me. Just get over it.
The funny thing is, it's always the mac people who are instigating it (at least in my experiences.. the switch ads, and mac/pc adds come to mind). They are like the house guest who won't stop trying to convince you to join their religion.
aristobrat said:
Oh yes, because Cmd-Shift-3 is SOOOOOOOOOOOO intuitive. Right.
Shift-Printscn, go to MS Paint, Ctrl-V to paste.
Easy.
Oh and by the way to do something like MS Paint on MacOS you need to buy Adobe Photoshop!
aristobrat said:
Sorry, I believe more freeware alternatives runs on MacOS then there are software for the whole MacOS as a platform.
dpaanlka said:
And obviously a person who is incapable is reading and comprehending a short forum post is incapable of deducing what is truly intelligent.
If you reread my post those are the exact questions I have been asked from a switcher I got, not questions I have of my own. So what should I tell her? "Heh, you are such an idiot, go back to Windows you godless heathen!"
Oh, and by the way Windows 2.0 already has the maximize button, not Windows 95. You reckon your "MacOS is so original" argument still holds?
baxterbrittle said:Oh and do you call your parents Mum and Dad or Aunt and Uncle? Seems those terms are basically interchangable in your case
Hey, you understand the meaning that.. "it is all relative"?
Your mum is obviously not my mum, and I will be damned surprised if on your Mum's driver's license it actually prints "Mum Baxterbrittle" there as her name, bonus points for the Dad being named "Dad Baxterbrittle".
But yes, if I live in such a crazy family as yours, mum, dad, aunt, uncle, they are all interchangeable. You probably eat raw meat and make grunting noises too.
Yes, because a car like a piece of crap name like "Mercedes E500" is such a... piece of crap, whereas a timeless name like "Toyota Corolla" is symbolic of such classiness and innovation.
See, the stupid Mercedes is named E500 today, next year's model will be E550! The one after may be E555! Oh noes! So confusing! My simple Mac brain can't handle it! Besides I've spent all the money I could have invested towards my own Mercedes on "branded" PeeCee hardware known as Macintosh!
What's left to do? Drive your innovative "Toyota Corolla" of course. A name close to your heart the same way "Corollary disease" is. Besides it is so easy to keep track. This year's will be the 2006 Corolla, next year will be the 2007 Corolla. Same deal with Macbook and Macbook Pros. No matter what's inside they all have the same name!
The MacBook Pro starts at $1999. People always choose the lowest price possible for their bet and highest price possible for the Mac. It's always been that way.
It's true, you can spend $9,000 on a pimped out dual-screen Power Mac or you can run out and get a $400 eMachines. But which one will run better after a few weeks?
Apple could make a low-end MacBook for maybe $699 with 256 MB RAM, a 40 GB HD, a 1.6 GHz Core Solo, a 12" screen and no iSight or iLife or Bluetooth or Wifi or MagSafe or FireWire or DVI-out or well-made drive or well-made anything. It would be made out of cheap plastic better suited for dollar store purchases and it would be two inches thick. They could do it, but it would ruin the value of a Mac. You don't get use out of something like that anyway.
You can NEVER fairly compare prices between a PC and a Mac for several reasons.
a) Macs are generally made with higher-quality materials rather than cheap plastics.
b) Macs have a lot of R+D put into them to make sure they're sleek, stylish and beautiful.
c) Most companies offer substandard RAM. For example, when I was trying to match RAM while comparing a MBP to a Gateway, the Gateway only offered 533 MHz RAM while the Core Duo is supposed to use 633 MHz RAM.
d) The screens rarely match up. 14.1" or 14.2" is okay, but most of the time they're something like 1280x768 resolution rather than 1440x1028 and sometimes they're not even widescreen! Most screens aren't nearly as bright or as true-to-life as Macs have.
d) There are extras on a Mac. Lots of them. iLife is worth a lot, as well as iSight, the infrared remote and receiver, Front Row, the battery-life button on the batteries of laptops and MagSafe all add value to your Mac.
e) There are many built-in features in Mac OS X that people don't think of to buy but WILL need down the road. Virus protection*, ad-ware/spy-ware removers*, registry cleaners*, disk burning, firewalls, media software, iLife-like software and some of the equivalents of the free applications Macs come with (Quicken, etc.)
f) Most PC users wouldn't think that they'd have to spend money later in the computer's life as something breaks or dies. Macs are hardy machines and can take a LOT of abuse.
*I figured this is necessary to try to match the PC and the Mac as close as possible, so figure both computers wouldn't have these problems. And don't even try to pull that free app made by some 8 year old crap.
And, of course... It Just Works.™
It's true, you can spend $9,000 on a pimped out dual-screen Power Mac or you can run out and get a $400 eMachines. But which one will run better after a few weeks?
Apple could make a low-end MacBook for maybe $699 with 256 MB RAM, a 40 GB HD, a 1.6 GHz Core Solo, a 12" screen and no iSight or iLife or Bluetooth or Wifi or MagSafe or FireWire or DVI-out or well-made drive or well-made anything. It would be made out of cheap plastic better suited for dollar store purchases and it would be two inches thick. They could do it, but it would ruin the value of a Mac. You don't get use out of something like that anyway.
You can NEVER fairly compare prices between a PC and a Mac for several reasons.
a) Macs are generally made with higher-quality materials rather than cheap plastics.
b) Macs have a lot of R+D put into them to make sure they're sleek, stylish and beautiful.
c) Most companies offer substandard RAM. For example, when I was trying to match RAM while comparing a MBP to a Gateway, the Gateway only offered 533 MHz RAM while the Core Duo is supposed to use 633 MHz RAM.
d) The screens rarely match up. 14.1" or 14.2" is okay, but most of the time they're something like 1280x768 resolution rather than 1440x1028 and sometimes they're not even widescreen! Most screens aren't nearly as bright or as true-to-life as Macs have.
d) There are extras on a Mac. Lots of them. iLife is worth a lot, as well as iSight, the infrared remote and receiver, Front Row, the battery-life button on the batteries of laptops and MagSafe all add value to your Mac.
e) There are many built-in features in Mac OS X that people don't think of to buy but WILL need down the road. Virus protection*, ad-ware/spy-ware removers*, registry cleaners*, disk burning, firewalls, media software, iLife-like software and some of the equivalents of the free applications Macs come with (Quicken, etc.)
f) Most PC users wouldn't think that they'd have to spend money later in the computer's life as something breaks or dies. Macs are hardy machines and can take a LOT of abuse.
*I figured this is necessary to try to match the PC and the Mac as close as possible, so figure both computers wouldn't have these problems. And don't even try to pull that free app made by some 8 year old crap.
And, of course... It Just Works.™
generik said:Oh yes, because Cmd-Shift-3 is SOOOOOOOOOOOO intuitive. Right.
Shift-Printscn, go to MS Paint, Ctrl-V to paste.
Easy.
Oh and by the way to do something like MS Paint on MacOS you need to buy Adobe Photoshop!
Sorry, I believe more freeware alternatives runs on MacOS then there are software for the whole MacOS as a platform.
And obviously a person who is incapable is reading and comprehending a short forum post is incapable of deducing what is truly intelligent.
If you reread my post those are the exact questions I have been asked from a switcher I got, not questions I have of my own. So what should I tell her? "Heh, you are such an idiot, go back to Windows you godless heathen!"
Oh, and by the way Windows 2.0 already has the maximize button, not Windows 95. You reckon your "MacOS is so original" argument still holds?
Hey, you understand the meaning that.. "it is all relative"?
Your mum is obviously not my mum, and I will be damned surprised if on your Mum's driver's license it actually prints "Mum Baxterbrittle" there as her name, bonus points for the Dad being named "Dad Baxterbrittle".
But yes, if I live in such a crazy family as yours, mum, dad, aunt, uncle, they are all interchangeable. You probably eat raw meat and make grunting noises too.
Who really cares? You guys/gals should really calm down. I didn't want this to be a bitch fight. I just wanted to see what some of you would say when you get slapped with the argument of $1100 vs $2499 for basically the same thing.
kevin.rivers said:
Well, the trouble with this whole point is really quite simple.
Since Apple's hardware implementation is not significantly more "problem free" than others, not like for all their genius they came up with something to counteract the heat annoyances (the whine and moo issues are even more so of a disgrace). It really all boils down to software and design.
Well I wouldn't mind paying $500 more for a nicer design. Not like the Al case costed Apple $500 anyway so they still made a handsome profit there. But why is it that the "MacOS" component of a Mac have a variable pricing of sorts? On a MBP it may be $500, but if you apply that $500 towards a Mini you get a cost breakdown that'd fail to make any sense.
What exactly is the cost of MacOS?
Since Apple doesn't sell that, nobody knows...
You know I have a G3 Pismo still going strong. 7 years and still running? How many PC laptops have the same life?
Invest in a cheap machine, get cheap results. Invest the extra bucks and expect a higher return
Macbook/Pro can boot in XP and OS X. I'd like to see his Dell do that.
Mac Owners typically keep their computers significantly longer than PC users. Better investment for the future. Long lasting.
Vista won't be a bitch to run on someone's two year old PC (system hogging whore). Leapard will run flawlesly on someone's 4 year old Mac. (Or more)
I have found myself more productive on a Mac compared to the Optiplex I had from Dell. The Dell I had and moniter had poor color representation when using InDesign. I would print something of and say wtf thats not the color I wanted!!! Though I must say I wasn't using an LCD and Dell's new LCDs are much much better.
If you want a simple answer just say "My investment in a Mac will yeild returns of productivity years from now."
Invest in a cheap machine, get cheap results. Invest the extra bucks and expect a higher return
Macbook/Pro can boot in XP and OS X. I'd like to see his Dell do that.
Mac Owners typically keep their computers significantly longer than PC users. Better investment for the future. Long lasting.
Vista won't be a bitch to run on someone's two year old PC (system hogging whore). Leapard will run flawlesly on someone's 4 year old Mac. (Or more)
I have found myself more productive on a Mac compared to the Optiplex I had from Dell. The Dell I had and moniter had poor color representation when using InDesign. I would print something of and say wtf
thats not the color I wanted!!! Though I must say I wasn't using an LCD and Dell's new LCDs are much much better.If you want a simple answer just say "My investment in a Mac will yeild returns of productivity years from now."
KingYaba said:You know I have a G3 Pismo still going strong. 7 years and still running? How many PC laptops have the same life?
Invest in a cheap machine, get cheap results. Invest the extra bucks and expect a higher return
Macbook/Pro can boot in XP and OS X. I'd like to see his Dell do that.
Mac Owners typically keep their computers significantly longer than PC users. Better investment for the future. Long lasting.
Vista won't be a bitch to run on someone's two year old PC (system hogging whore). Leapard will run flawlesly on someone's 4 year old Mac. (Or more)
I have found myself more productive on a Mac compared to the Optiplex I had from Dell. The Dell I had and moniter had poor color representation when using InDesign. I would print something of and say wtf
If you want a simple answer just say "My investment in a Mac will yeild returns of productivity years from now."
It really depends on your definition of usable. A Pentium 3 1Ghz system with extra memory modules installed and an upgraded harddrive will be just as usable as your G3 Pismo. In fact I've used some pretty dated G4s in our school labs before, I really question your notion of "usable".
Besides, I really doubt the Macs today will last your alledged 4-7 years. Back in the day when Macs are assembled in USA or in Europe, the worksmanship is definitely better. Today Macs are literally disintegrating right out of the box, you'd be lucky if you can get through your 3 years of Applecare without sending it in for servicing once.
People say Macs are reliable, but they also recommend you get Applecare. Ironic isn't it?
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