Spoilers What Movie Are You Watching?

[twietee]

What Ever Happened to Baby Jane is a hoot! What a great and wild melodrama/horror film! As you undoubtedly know, Bette Davis and Joan Crawford hated each other with a white hot passion. In the scene where Davis kicks Crawford while she is on the floor, the story is Davis "accidentally" really kicked Crawford. Apparently the set was not a place you really wanted to be when the two of them were doing a scene together.

A wonderful piece of schlock!!

WAAAA! Spoilers ahead I'd say!

 

[Shrink]

WAAAA! Spoilers ahead I'd say!

Sorry, Mate!

I forgot that you had not yet seen the film! But I don't think it will come as any surprise after about three minutes into the film. Their film relationship (which apparently mirrored their real relationship) is revealed immediately.I don't think, and do hope, that my carelessness will take anything away from your enjoyment of this classic junk.

It is a winner!!

 

[twietee]

I was mostly joking and theoretical am convinced that a good piece of artwork (as I assume this movie will be) doesn't loose any quality with antecedent knowledge. No, one should know actually everything about the plot before, so that one can judge better about the artistic and intellectual work. Must be a Brecht thing.

That said, I nevertheless avoid, under any circumstances, any given spoiler,be it as tiny as can be, which takes away the adventurous mystery of watching an unknown movie.

 

[Shrink]

I was mostly joking and theoretical am convinced that a good piece of artwork (as I assume this movie will be) doesn't loose any quality with antecedent knowledge. No, one should know actually everything about the plot before, so that one can judge better about the artistic and intellectual work. Must be a Brecht thing.

That said, I nevertheless avoid, under any circumstances, any given spoiler,be it as tiny as can be, which takes away the adventurous mystery of watching an unknown movie.

I am appalled and humiliated at my thoughtless error.

"A good piece of artwork" may be taking it a tad too far. Wonderful entertainment, enjoyable tomfoolery...perhaps. But, It could be argued, I suppose, that "art" is in the eye of the beholder.

Do forgive my egregious error!

Mea Culpa...

 

[twietee]

Mea Culpa...

Thou shalt be forgiven.
Especially since it is my own 'fault' visiting a forum like this. Your remarks are as always highly appreciated and please don't hold anything back in future posts because of me b****ing around.

And of course I shouldn't call something a piece of artwork since I haven't seen it...ahem. But chances are good I don't have to take that back.

 

[twietee]

"A good piece of artwork" may be taking it a tad too far. Wonderful entertainment, enjoyable tomfoolery...perhaps. But, It could be argued, I suppose, that "art" is in the eye of the beholder.

Ok, now you made me curious. Are you referring to said movie precisely or is that a more general statement regarding films? For example the last movie I saw (Blue Velvet) is a true masterpiece and definitely a piece of art in my opinion, as is Double Indemnity.

And please excuse the double post.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

If you like "Whatever Happened To Baby Jane?" (which is a very fine movie), I suggest that you take a look at "Sunset Boulevard" which is sheer class; beautifully filmed, acted, scripted - an absolute classic.

PS: Note no spoilers, instead, just go and watch it.........

 

[twietee]

If you like "Whatever Happened To Baby Jane?" (which is a very fine movie), I suggest that you take a look at "Sunset Boulevard" which is sheer class; beautifully filmed, acted, scripted - an absolute classic.

PS: Note no spoilers, instead, just go and watch it.........

The ghosts I called I can't get rid of now.

Sunset Boulevard: I Love that film. Wasn't it the first Wilder ever? But maybe I'm inventing stuff right now. I'm a big fan of von Stoheim. And beware, small spoiler adhead: great opening scene

 

[Scepticalscribe]

The ghosts I called I can't get rid of now.

Sunset Boulevard: I Love that film. Wasn't it the first Wilder ever? But maybe I'm inventing stuff right now. I'm a big fan of von Stoheim. And beware, small spoiler adhead: great opening scene

Great opening scene, agreed, but amazing final scene.......and no, that is not a spoiler, merely an attempt to tempt some others (Shrink, you might like this one if you haven't seen it). Twietee: You constantly surprise and delight me; I'm impressed (and delighted) to meet a fellow fan of this movie....

Von Stoheim was simply terrific, as was the inimitable Gloria Swanson......and it must be said that William Holden played an excellent role, too......

Sheer class, class, class.......go watch, if you have not yet seen it. Seriously. Just. Go. Watch......

 

[Shrink]

Ok, now you made me curious. Are you referring to said movie precisely or is that a more general statement regarding films? For example the last movie I saw (Blue Velvet) is a true masterpiece and definitely a piece of art in my opinion, as is Double Indemnity.

And please excuse the double post.

I am referring to this movie only when I question it's description as "art".

To me, film is a very significant art form. Incredible films like "Citizen Kane", "The Third Man" and even "The Asphalt Jungle" are, to me, among the many films I would classify as "art".

Unable as I am to really adequately define "art", it is, perforce, a subjective judgement on my part. But acting, direction, cinematography, lighting, etc. all reach that subjective criteria in some films. "What Ever Happened To Baby Jane" does not, for me, reach those criteria.

Many films that I love do not meet those criteria, e.g. some Warner Bros gangster films of the 40's, some 50's sci-fi schlock, campy, kitschy films, and the like are wonderful to watch...but not "art".

Film, as a medium, certainly reaches the level of art, but not always...

Jeez, what a pompous and pedantic screed is the above...

 

[twietee]

Great opening scene, agreed, but amazing final scene.......and no, that is not a spoiler

Are you sure? I didn't mention the final scene because....well you know why
Great framing overall. And my bad, it's spelled Von Stroheim of course - haven't seen his movie Greed up to now but am very curious to do that.

 

[Shrink]

Are you sure? I didn't mention the final scene because....well you know why
Great framing overall. And my bad, it's spelled Von Stroheim of course - haven't seen his movie Greed up to now but am very curious to do that.

"Sunset Boulevard", a truly breathtaking film.

No, it wasn't Billy Wilder's first film. Get this, his first film was a little nothing called "Double Indemnity"!! Not bad for the first crack out of the box. Also, before William Holden was offered the role, the first choice was Montgomery Clift. He's a fine actor, if you need someone to play an introspective, suffering part...but would have been miscast in the "Sunset Boulevard" role. William Holden was terrific in the part...I can't really imagine anyone else in the role (although Marlon Brando, who was offered the role and turned it down, might have been interesting at that point in his career).

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Are you sure? I didn't mention the final scene because....well you know why
Great framing overall. And my bad, it's spelled Von Stroheim of course - haven't seen his movie Greed up to now but am very curious to do that.

Yes. Actually, I had written Von Stroheim, because that was what I remembered how he was called, and then I read your post (the post of a German speaker), and I doubted myself. And changed it. Mea culpa. (And debated with myself whether or not to google, or otherwise seek to confirm or not the spelling of his name, and thought, lazily, 'no', I'll leave it.......it just goes to show, never, never take anything on trust, especially somebody else's spelling......)

"Sunset Boulevard", a truly breathtaking film.

No, it wasn't Billy Wilder's first film. Get this, his first film was a little nothing called "Double Indemnity"!! Not bad for the first crack out of the box. Also, before William Holden was offered the role, the first choice was Montgomery Clift. He's a fine actor, if you need someone to play an introspective, suffering part...but would have been miscast in the "Sunset Boulevard" role. William Holden was terrific in the part...I can't really imagine anyone else in the role (although Marlon Brando, who was offered the role and turned it down, might have been interesting at that point in his career).

Ah, Shrink, what wonderful stories; and yes, agree that Holden's world weary air is just right for that movie; I cannot imagine anyone else in that role.

And twietee, no, it is not a spoiler to say the last scene is superlative. Because it is. We have not discussed anything in the story itself.

I've not seen "Greed" either, but it is supposed to be one of those classics that was 1) so expensive and 2) so far ahead of its time that it virtually bankrupted and destroyed the studio which financed it. However, 'Sunset Boulevard' shows that Von Stroheim was at least as superb an actor as he had been director.

To all who have not seen it: This is superb - an intelligent, powerful, brilliant, bitter-sweet and ultimately moving movie.

 

[Huntn]

Watched Prometheus last night. After I've had some time to digest it from theater viewing, it's best feature is atmosphere and visuals which are very good. The story feels, would it be fair to describe as "shallow"? I mean although there are revelations, there is not that much to chew on- spoiler> aliens, DNA altering goo, mutated crewmembers, emerg C-Section, bio-weapons station where their creations got our of control, aliens created and now want to destroy us, shootdown, all but one die, off to confront our makers. <end spoiler Hmm. Just not as fulfilling as I would hope, but good enough, I'll probably watch it again.

 

[twietee]

Watched Prometheus last night.

Haven't you watched it already one page ago?

I was soo close to get it from Amazon this afternoon, but probably wait some time til it gets down to a more reasonable price. (well, finally pulled the trigger on Fantasia today-so that's where the big money went..thx Walt)

 

[flopticalcube]

Watched Prometheus last night. After I've had some time to digest it from theater viewing, it's best feature is atmosphere and visuals which are very good. The story feels, would it be fair to describe as "shallow"? I mean although there are revelations, there is not that much to chew on- ... Hmm. Just not as fulfilling as I would hope, but good enough, I'll probably watch it again.

Image

Yes. I thought much the same. Oh well...

 

[Huntn]

Haven't you watched it already one page ago?

I was soo close to get it from Amazon this afternoon, but probably wait some time til it gets down to a more reasonable price. (well, finally pulled the trigger on Fantasia-so that's where the big money went..Walt)

You may be referring to my reply to someone discussing the movie. But it was last night that I saw it again since it was in the theater.

 

[LizKat]

Well if iTunes would sell Indochine, I'd be watching that. They have the sound track but not the movie. So annoying. I think I asked them to get it. Maybe it's not even available as a digital purchase. I have a DVD but it's upstairs and I'm thoroughly spoiled now by having movies stashed in iPad and laptops...

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Well if iTunes would sell Indochine, I'd be watching that. They have the sound track but not the movie. So annoying. I think I asked them to get it. Maybe it's not even available as a digital purchase. I have a DVD but it's upstairs and I'm thoroughly spoiled now by having movies stashed in iPad and laptops...

Is this the French movie "Indochine" which featured Catherine Deneuve (and Vincent Perez)? If so, I well remember it - an epic, stunning, beautifully-told and wonderfully gripping story.

Shrink, and twietee, if you haven't seen this, I strongly urge you to take a look at it. For, it is a tale in which to lose yourself for several hours - simply wonderful. Exquisitely told, beautifully filmed, and great acting.

 

[twietee]

For a heartbeat I read Catherine Deneuve and Vincent Price in your comment. Gave me a kind of 'too good to be true' feeling.

Speaking of which, poor twietee had/has to spend his weekend in the bureau and so I came home late, didn't had the reserves to go through the process of projecting Whatever happened to... (which I find adequate) and just watched a bit of my lullaby Basil The Great Mouse Detective. Why do I tell you this you'll ask? Because it is a wonderful movie, probably the best Disney, the very first in a very long series of movies I watched during my pitiful short life, and featuring the great villain Rattigan. Spoken by Vincent Price.



Indochine, I've never heard of before.

 

[Shrink]

Is this the French movie "Indochine" which featured Catherine Deneuve (and Vincent Perez)? If so, I well remember it - an epic, stunning, beautifully-told and wonderfully gripping story.

Shrink, and twietee, if you haven't seen this, I strongly urge you to take a look at it. For, it is a tale in which to lose yourself for several hours - simply wonderful. Exquisitely told, beautifully filmed, and great acting.

I haven't seen Indochine, but had heard of it. On your recommendation, I'll try to find it and give it a look. At the risk of sounding like a complete pig, watching Catherine Deneuve is never a struggle. She is also an admirable actor, so I'll find the film.

While I'm typing this, I'm watching "Stella Dallas". Now there's a melodrama for the ages. As ridiculous as it is, I must say Barbara Stanwyk (an actress I have enjoyed more and more over time) does save it from being totally over the top loser.

 

[twietee]

On your recommendation, I'll try to find it and give it a look.

I know you didn't exactly recommended it, if I remember correctly, but just for the record because we talked about this some time ago: I recently saw The Island of Dr Moreau, the Lancaster one, but couldn't even finish it - nasty movie in a bad way I've to say. Don't even bother anymore to see the Brando one at this point and stay with the original Lost souls.


Never heard of Stella Dallas either.

 

[Shrink]

I know you didn't exactly recommended it, if I remember correctly, but just for the record because we talked about this some time ago: I recently saw The Island of Dr Moreau, the Lancaster one, but couldn't even finish it - nasty movie in a bad way I've to say. Don't even bother anymore to see the Brando one at this point and stay with the original Lost souls.


Never heard of Stella Dallas either.

I completely agree that the original version is the best of the bunch. Brando, in his later films (perhaps with the exception of "The Godfather"), was ridiculous...very sad. With the exception of the original, the various "Dr. Moreau" films are something I would not recommend. Disappointing choice for Lancaster...generally an actor worth watching.

"Stella Dallas" is a 1937 weeper...worthwhile only from an historical perspective, and for watching the development of Barbara Stanwyk's work. I particularly like the "pre-code" movies...many not great, but interesting historically to see what was being done in film prior to the Production Code (read Censorship Code).

EDIT: For accuracy sake..."Stella Dallas" is not pre-code, as it was made in 1937.

 

[twietee]

I completely agree that the original version is the best of the bunch. Brando, in his later films (perhaps with the exception of "The Godfather"), was ridiculous...very sad.

Surely you forgot Apocalypse Now as an exception (here's hoping). I would compare his introduction there with the visibile introduction of Welles in The Third Man [spoiler-cat comes along] except that it has a much bigger physical impact in Coppolas movie. Not better, but different. The lightning of his spoiler-bald head is truly epic (ok, I know that Brando wasn't really responisble for the setting and framing but notice how he clutches the pot of water with only 4 fingers giving an impression of a spoiler-claw).

The pre-code movies are really interesting. I forgot which one it was I saw some time ago but there were some interesting things mentioned regarding it...could it have been Angels with Dirty Faces....or even Island of the lost souls? Bad memory.

 

[Shrink]

Surely you forgot Apocalypse Now as an exception (here's hoping). I would compare his introduction there with the visibile introduction of Welles in The Third Man [spoiler-cat comes along] except that it has a much bigger physical impact in Coppolas movie. Not better, but different. The lightning of his spoiler-bald head is truly epic (ok, I know that Brando wasn't really responisble for the setting and framing but notice how he clutches the pot of water with only 4 fingers giving an impression of a spoiler-claw).

The pre-code movies are really interesting. I forgot which one it was I saw some time ago but there were some interesting things mentioned regarding it...could it have been Angels with Dirty Faces....or even Island of the lost souls? Bad memory.

I agree that "Apocalypse Now" was a worthwhile film, and an exception to my somewhat overstated denigration of Brand's later work...which, let's say was "mostly" awful. The beautiful youth of the "Streetcar Named Desire" and "The Wild Ones"...the revolutionary acting of that time deteriorated, IMO, into a caricature of his earlier talent and become self indulgent silliness. (How's that for putting my tush on the line!!!)