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theSeb

macrumors 604
Aug 10, 2010
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It does mean that it is ageing faster, actually. It's not only ageing, it's being damaged. It is an absolutely bad idea to keep any lion battery at 100% at all times. This is how you get swollen batteries which can then explode and start a fire. I've seen it happen first hand, as I said, and it WOULD have exploded had I not been there to disconnect the laptop from the power source and then open it and disconnect the battery from the motherboard.

I recommend you read up a bit on this topic before coming here to these threads and telling people they shouldn't care about it at all. If you don't want to care - sure, just don't spread this around as it is dangerous. What you are doing is precisely harm. Let people take proper care of their tech and you do whatever you feel is OK for you.

Sitting drained, or at 100% is stressful for a battery. High temperatures are stressful for a battery. Combine these for a long time and get yourself an explosion. I don't care how low the chance is. This happens more often than you would like to think, or admit. Otherwise you wouldn't be claiming what you claim. It didn't happen to you but it can happen to someone else. It's good to consider possibilities outside of your own personal experience.

View attachment 973652
Don't resort to FUD to push your agenda. Yes, Lithium is highly reactive and unstable. I understand that high schools are no longer allowed to do this in science class in many countries, but many of you of a certain age may recall your science teacher dropping a piece of Sodium into a bowl or bucket of water. The adventurous science teachers would use a tiny piece of Lithium and everybody would be highly amazed thanks to the amazing show because Lithium is even more reactive than Sodium.

Lithium batteries can catch on fire. But that has nothing to do with how you charge it. It happens because there was a defect in manufacturing. I am sure we've all read about that other company's phones catching on fire on flights or smoking. They weren't connected to chargers and they were banned on most airlines. There was also a similar problem with a particular year of Macbook Pros. None of those issues had anything to do at all with charging. If there is a defect in how the battery was manufactured, then you will end up with screenshots like you have included, no matter what apps you use and how you take care of your cycles and whether you perform a voodoo ritual every time you connect your computer to a charger.

Most important is to consider the MILLIONS of devices out there (not just Apple's) using Lithium ion batteries and not blowing up, or catching on fire, around the world. We recall the news stories because it's big news, but the number of times it actually happens is statistically insignificant. It's kind of like shark attacks. Some people get very worried about shark attacks and it's super scary. In reality you have a higher chance of being hit by lightning than being attacked by a shark, even if you surf or swim everyday.

Yes, Lithium batteries do prefer to have their capacity remaining within a certain range and running them down completely is bad for them retaining their capacity over time. The reality is that it's perfectly fine not worrying about it. There are more important things to worry about. Just use the computer and don't stress about it. Or stress about it and do what you want and go through the song and dance routine of discharging and charging and vigorously tracking your battery capacity in Excel spreadsheets with graphs, if it makes you happy.
 

Broko Fankone

macrumors regular
Jun 14, 2020
231
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"The cause of anode lithium plating depends strongly on the
cell design and operating conditions, especially charge rate and
temperature
. During high-rate charging at room temperature, the
poor solid phase diffusion of lithium ions is responsible for
anode lithium plating. As the temperature decreases, the inter-
face reaction is also hindered in addition to solid phase lithium
diffusion. Therefore, the main limiting factor of anode lithium
plating at low temperatures is still controversial: sluggish charge
transfer kinetics and limited lithium ion diffusion in graphite
have both been proposed. At present, in order to suppress anode
lithium plating, optimizing the electrolyte composition and
modifying the graphite surface structure by methods such as
coating and doping are usually employed. In addition, appro-
priate working conditions and charging protocols can reduce the
possibility of anode lithium plating
. Nevertheless, anode lithium
plating has still not been satisfactorily suppressed because the
anode lithium plating process is complicated."


For the n-th time, let people worry about whatever they want and let them make use of the correct practices if they want. How complicated is that to understand is beyond me. What exactly is uncertain about the chemistry of these batteries?? This is precisely what I did with my gaming laptop. High temperatures and 100% charged at all times. It took 2 years for the cell to expand. Had this happened while I was not there, the expanded cell can easily get punctured by anything inside of the laptop, really, and then it becomes a bomb. This is not hard to achieve. Stress the battery enough and you will achieve it. Do not compare phone batteries to laptop batteries. One of these are way more easy to stress than the other - things like overall capacity, fast-charging rate and ambient conditions are huge factors. You call this uncertain, I call it "this is how these batteries work". Take care of them or don't, do what you want.

And this is what happens when you let the cell go under 2V - overdischarged - even over a few cycles:
  • Under-voltage / Over-discharge
  • Rechargeable Lithium cells suffer from under-voltage as well as over-voltage. Allowing the cell voltage to fall below about 2 Volts by over-discharging or storage for extended periods results in progressive breakdown of the electrode materials.
    • Anodes
    • First the anode copper current collector is dissolved into the electrolyte. This increases the self discharge rate of the cell however, as the voltage is increased again above 2 volts, the copper ions which are dispersed throughout the electrolyte are precipitated as metallic copper wherever they happen to be, not necessarily back on the current collector foil. This is a dangerous situation which can ultimately cause a short circuit between the electrodes.
    • Cathodes
    • Keeping the cells for prolonged periods at voltages below 2 Volts results in the gradual breakdown of the cathode over many cycles with the release of Oxygen by the Lithium Cobalt Oxide and Lithium Manganese Oxide cathodes and a consequent permanent capacity loss. With Lithium Iron Phosphate cells this can happen over a few cycles .
There is a reason why manufacturers store cells at 50% charge and not 0 or 100. And it's a seriously good reason.
 
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BigMcGuire

Cancelled
Jan 10, 2012
9,832
14,032
"The cause of anode lithium plating depends strongly on the
cell design and operating conditions, especially charge rate and
temperature
. During high-rate charging at room temperature, the
poor solid phase diffusion of lithium ions is responsible for
anode lithium plating. As the temperature decreases, the inter-
face reaction is also hindered in addition to solid phase lithium
diffusion. Therefore, the main limiting factor of anode lithium
plating at low temperatures is still controversial: sluggish charge
transfer kinetics and limited lithium ion diffusion in graphite
have both been proposed. At present, in order to suppress anode
lithium plating, optimizing the electrolyte composition and
modifying the graphite surface structure by methods such as
coating and doping are usually employed. In addition, appro-
priate working conditions and charging protocols can reduce the
possibility of anode lithium plating
. Nevertheless, anode lithium
plating has still not been satisfactorily suppressed because the
anode lithium plating process is complicated."


For the n-th time, let people worry about whatever they want and let them make use of the correct practices if they want. How complicated is that to understand is beyond me. What exactly is uncertain about the chemistry of these batteries?? This is precisely what I did with my gaming laptop. High temperatures and 100% charged at all times. It took 2 years for the cell to expand. Had this happened while I was not there, the expanded cell can easily get punctured by anything inside of the laptop, really, and then it becomes a bomb. This is not hard to achieve. Stress the battery enough and you will achieve it. Do not compare phone batteries to laptop batteries. One of these are way more easy to stress than the other - things like overall capacity, fast-charging rate and ambient conditions are huge factors. You call this uncertain, I call it "this is how these batteries work". Take care of them or don't, do what you want.

And this is what happens when you let the cell go under 2V - overdischarged - even over a few cycles:
  • Under-voltage / Over-discharge
  • Rechargeable Lithium cells suffer from under-voltage as well as over-voltage. Allowing the cell voltage to fall below about 2 Volts by over-discharging or storage for extended periods results in progressive breakdown of the electrode materials.
    • Anodes
    • First the anode copper current collector is dissolved into the electrolyte. This increases the self discharge rate of the cell however, as the voltage is increased again above 2 volts, the copper ions which are dispersed throughout the electrolyte are precipitated as metallic copper wherever they happen to be, not necessarily back on the current collector foil. This is a dangerous situation which can ultimately cause a short circuit between the electrodes.
    • Cathodes
    • Keeping the cells for prolonged periods at voltages below 2 Volts results in the gradual breakdown of the cathode over many cycles with the release of Oxygen by the Lithium Cobalt Oxide and Lithium Manganese Oxide cathodes and a consequent permanent capacity loss. With Lithium Iron Phosphate cells this can happen over a few cycles .
There is a reason why manufacturers store cells at 50% charge and not 0 or 100. And it's a seriously good reason.

Thanks for taking the time to write all that information. Read it twice and thoroughly enjoyed it. Don't let other people get in the way of you enjoying your stuff. I am a HUGE battery hobbyist. I've read Isidor Buchmann's book like 4 times and I have 5 external batteries I really enjoy playing with.

People feel strongly about batteries. Most people see them as an expendable tool. I treat them like some people treat a sports car. Hey, variety is the spice of life right? If we all did the same thing life would be boring as all get out. :)

Thanks again.
 
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BigMcGuire

Cancelled
Jan 10, 2012
9,832
14,032
Don't resort to FUD to push your agenda. Yes, Lithium is highly reactive and unstable. I understand that high schools are no longer allowed to do this in science class in many countries, but many of you of a certain age may recall your science teacher dropping a piece of Sodium into a bowl or bucket of water. The adventurous science teachers would use a tiny piece of Lithium and everybody would be highly amazed thanks to the amazing show because Lithium is even more reactive than Sodium.

Lithium batteries can catch on fire. But that has nothing to do with how you charge it. It happens because there was a defect in manufacturing. I am sure we've all read about that other company's phones catching on fire on flights or smoking. They weren't connected to chargers and they were banned on most airlines. There was also a similar problem with a particular year of Macbook Pros. None of those issues had anything to do at all with charging. If there is a defect in how the battery was manufactured, then you will end up with screenshots like you have included, no matter what apps you use and how you take care of your cycles and whether you perform a voodoo ritual every time you connect your computer to a charger.

Most important is to consider the MILLIONS of devices out there (not just Apple's) using Lithium ion batteries and not blowing up, or catching on fire, around the world. We recall the news stories because it's big news, but the number of times it actually happens is statistically insignificant. It's kind of like shark attacks. Some people get very worried about shark attacks and it's super scary. In reality you have a higher chance of being hit by lightning than being attacked by a shark, even if you surf or swim everyday.

Yes, Lithium batteries do prefer to have their capacity remaining within a certain range and running them down completely is bad for them retaining their capacity over time. The reality is that it's perfectly fine not worrying about it. There are more important things to worry about. Just use the computer and don't stress about it. Or stress about it and do what you want and go through the song and dance routine of discharging and charging and vigorously tracking your battery capacity in Excel spreadsheets with graphs, if it makes you happy.

While I baby my batteries, my wife will just use her devices and she uses them 3-4x "harder" than I do. She usually has 150-200+ cycles than I do on her phone (until this year, we've always had the same phone). My wife has had her phones die on her and doesn't freak out when her battery hits 60% (like I do).

Comparing her battery health to mine has shown me that one can do all the right things and depending on the "lottery" will have a worse battery than someone else, or ... it just comes down to that babying your battery doesn't help all that much these days. My wife's capacity was always very close to mine even after several years.

This has relaxed my "obsession" with babying my batteries but I do it now more for "fun" and as a hobby than anything.

I know some people with MacBooks that are many years older than mine that have great capacity and they've never done anything special.

I still run AlDente and keep my battery at 65% when plugged in for long periods of time. :p
 
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Broko Fankone

macrumors regular
Jun 14, 2020
231
225
Modern devices are designed with the thought that users will not take ideal care of them, and the results are not bad at all. These problems do not occur at a very high frequency, but they do occur.

In the case of my other laptop, if the cell pack was defective, I would have experienced failure very soon after buying it, and not after two years, so I achieved the failure through stress and not because of a defect.

I'm not saying people should sleep with one eye open around their tech - I am saying that telling them to not consider taking better care of their devices will do no good to anyone and might do harm to some. Nobody is saying you should freak out about this, nor is this any type of fear-mongering.

This is simply stating the facts - batteries are not toys, they pose risks and treating them badly COULD end up badly. Or it couldn't. But more importantly - it could.

Furthermore, ignoring the risks, maintaining a high capacity will also increase the resale value of your devices. It's one thing to sell a laptop with 95%+ capacity and another to sell it with a "battery needs to be serviced" notification.

In summary, this thread is a good thing.
 
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Hyloba

macrumors 6502
Sep 30, 2014
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So I’ve put my laptop limit to 70% at the moment as I always use it in clamshell mode with the power plugged. Hopefully my battery will remain in pretty good condition. I will try to dinther same with my phone, keeping it between 30-90. So instead of overnight charging I will charge it during the day once or twice. My question is, as it is handier and because technology seems to go towards it: is Qi charging ok? I’ve always avoided it due to energy loss via heat, so that it may be damaging to the battery. But I’ve tried it a couple of times and the back of the phone doesn’t get much warmer that skin temperature. So I guess it should be fine?
 

Broko Fankone

macrumors regular
Jun 14, 2020
231
225
I don't think wireless charging is an issue.

For charge limiting, please take this into consideration: the battery has to be cycled through at least once per ~week. If you remain at 70% for more than a couple of weeks, the battery will lose calibration and reported capacity will no longer be correct. This means that it could show 70%, but actually be at 50%, or less. In such a case, once you reach 20% your battery will actually be depleted and your laptop will shut down.

Cycling once per week avoids this problem. I've experienced this with a 2020 MBP 13" and I had to do 3 full cycles one after another to recalibrate it. I now do 1 deep cycle every week - charge the cell to 100%, then let it drain to less than 20%, then charge it back up to 65% and mostly let it sit there for another week as I use it on my desk most of the time, plugged in.

It's also worth it to use Battery Health option from macOS (if you have it) in parallel with charge limiting, as it will do additional soft cycling during the week to keep the chemistry moving.

Oh, and here's the graph I'm getting from coconut comparing it online to averages:

1603663993146.png

1603664013545.png
1603664042757.png


The point where capacity starts going up is when I started using a Charge limiter. The "average" after 5 months of usage is 4765mAh and I am at 5111mAh, which looks pretty good in terms of capacity retention considering I'm using this MBP all day long during work and after work.

Capacity doesn't really "go up" but after doing a few deep cycles it can refresh and show you more accurate numbers. It might show low numbers and as you do the full cycles it will refresh. This is another thing that requires calibration to be accurate (not just current state of charge, but also overall capacity).
 
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theSeb

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Aug 10, 2010
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especially charge rate and temperature.

Yes, charge rate. This is not referring to charging up to 50% or 75% or 100%, like you think. They are talking about the rate (speed) of charging. Modern devices, including Apple's, account for this and will slow down, or completely stop, the charging rate at high ambient temperatures. Apple's devices also charge faster in normal / optimal ambient conditions till around 80% and then slow down the rate of charging.

Apple warns about ambient temperatures over 35° C and say that it can cause permanent damage to your battery. They also mention that charging a battery in high ambient temps can damage it even more and that their software may limit/stop charging above 80% when the ambient temperatures are exceeded.


In addition, appropriate working conditions and charging protocols can reduce the possibility of anode lithium plating.

Charging protocols is referring to the design considerations engineers must follow. Things like
  • Do not charge over X volts
  • Do not fast charge over 80%
  • Do not fast charge at high ambient temperatures
  • Do not allow charging when battery reaches X temperature
  • Do not allow device to drain battery below X volts.
  • Special procedures for low voltage cells or mark battery as bad and do not proceed as appropriate
  • etc etc etc
The paper is not aimed at consumers, nor is it attempting to offer guidelines about how one should charge their devices with Lithium Ion batteries


Stuff about deep discharge and swelling

Let's consider the common causes of swelling:
  • Deep discharge - discussed below
  • Overcharge - this is when a cell gets charged to over around 4.2 volts, depending on the exact makeup of the cell. This can increase battery performance (how long it will take to drain) but will decrease the life span. overcharge != 100% battery level
  • Cheap cells - bad quality and/or design
  • Excessive temperatures
  • Mechanical damage - caused either during the manufacturing process or other, such as dropping the device

Whenever you run your device until it shuts down it does not go into deep discharge. This is because reputable manufacturers do not have stupid engineers. Either the device shuts down before it gets to (0%) or 0% is not actually really 0%. Just like with many devices 100% is not really 100%. In reality you are often only charging to around 80 or 90% without realising it because it's reported as 100% or 3 bars or whatever.

What can consumers do to prevent battery swelling issues?
  • Do not buy cheap replacement batteries from unknown brands
  • Be wary of aftermarket chargers, especially ones advertising "fast / faster charging times"
  • Do not expose your devices to pro-longed high temperatures
  • If in storage, charge your device to 50% around every 6 months

Additionally, whilst this isn't exactly on the topic of batteries, be wary of USB-C cables. This is a great read, if you have not heard of the story



... One of these are way more easy to stress than the other - things like overall capacity, fast-charging rate and ambient conditions are huge factors. You call this uncertain, I call it "this is how these batteries work". Take care of them or don't, do what you want.
Huh? Sorry, you've lost me in this section.

There is a reason why manufacturers store cells at 50% charge and not 0 or 100. And it's a seriously good reason.

Yes, it's to maximise battery life before it gets to the customer whilst they are not being used. Long term off storage is best at around 50% charge. No where in Apple's rather detailed maximising battery performance mini site do they suggest to only charge your device to X percent during normal use. They also do not specify to not run your Mac on the charger at all times. If there was a problem with doing that, then they would have included this information, especially considering our modern highly litigious society. They do have detailed instructions on what to do when your Mac is long term switched off storage.

A small side note on your graph. I have seen this behaviour with all of my portable Macs. There is an initial drop down when you start using them and then the capacity jumps back up for a while and then starts to drop down again much slower this time.

Like I already said, people can do what they want, but it's also important that people are aware of the entire picture to make their own mind up. I take exception when you mention things like "correct procedure", because it's only partially right at best. According to "Modelling of Lithium-Lion Battery Degradation for Cell Life Assessment" the optimal cycle is charging to 75% and discharging to 65%. People are welcome to try to do this and live by this rule, but as I have already shown, you can also happily do whatever you want and still have acceptable battery capacity left after 8 years.

There is also a problem with that rule, as I already indirectly mentioned somewhere above. We don't know exactly what Apple is showing us on the battery level versus what the real actual battery level is. So, charging it to 75% may actually only be 50 or 60% of the real capacity of the battery, which is then clearly not the optimal cycle.
 
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brianmowrey

macrumors 6502
Oct 5, 2020
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No where in Apple's rather detailed maximising battery performance mini site do they suggest to only charge your device to X percent during normal use. They also do not specify to not run your Mac on the charger at all times. If there was a problem with doing that, then they would have included this information, especially considering our modern highly litigious society.
I agree with your analysis on batteries and your perspective on risk, but not on Apple’s legal priorities. Apple and other large tech companies expect their lawyers to advise them on what they might get away with, not what they might not.

It’s quite safe to guess that Apple is more concerned about how their battery management advice impacts the Macbook brand image than whether it risks yet another Replacement Program.
 

theSeb

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Aug 10, 2010
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I agree with your analysis on batteries and your perspective on risk, but not on Apple’s legal priorities. Apple and other large tech companies expect their lawyers to advise them on what they might get away with, not what they might not.

It’s quite safe to guess that Apple is more concerned about how their battery management advice impacts the Macbook brand image than whether it risks yet another Replacement Program.
I think it's both. The accountants are working in cahoots with the lawyers and they look at the risks and costs of a replacement program whilst the engineers shake their heads in disgust.
 
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Broko Fankone

macrumors regular
Jun 14, 2020
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Those points are not wrong. They are just non-exhaustive and intentionally ignorant of all benefits of charge limiting.

First of all, Apple (or any other brand for that matter) would never suggest any of this to any customer, ever. These types of practices complicate usage on one hand, and also would reduce the amount of battery replacements Apple get to do on the other hand. There exist some windows laptops, which allow users to do charge limiting - configurable in BIOS. That has been done for a reason, sadly it is extremely rare. Macs are superior in that regard given how easy it is to achieve limiting.

I don't understand how the points you made are supposed to be arguments against my point. Rate of charge is taken care of by the design itself. Temperature, though? My mac is barely below 35C most of the time, and more often at 36, or a bit higher. Turns out Apple doesn't take into account that people use external monitors. External monitors elevate temperatures considerably. Such are the ambient conditions. During summer it goes beyond that. Just by being in a warm room, combined with heavy usage of your laptop, combined with low state of charge and currently ongoing charging, you will increase your cell temperature past 40C. That is already 5C into unwanted territory. Meaning, the takeaway from this point is temperature, not so much charging rate. This is already one factor that actively damages cells.

"Charging protocols is referring to the design considerations engineers must follow."

I find it quite funny how you mentioned several protocols that the manufacturer does, but for some reason decided that user practices cannot be considered protocols. So let's add a few more:

- If possible, do not keep the laptop fully charged for prolonged periods of time
- If possible, discharge and charge your laptop between 40% and 80%.
- If possible, do not drain your laptop to 0% (I know the cutoff is not true 0%, thanks for mentioning that but it's not news)
- If possible, do not charge your laptop to 100% too often (same thing applies)

(Incidentally, charge limiting achieves these points on its own)

Will these things prolong battery life and reduce battery stress? Absolutely, most certainly they will.

Note: Most manufacturers are likely applying a soft cap at around ~90% capacity. It's no more than 10%. It's most definitely not 20, 30%, or more. That's ridiculous.

"Whenever you run your device until it shuts down it does not go into deep discharge."

It absolutely does, as long as you leave it drained for enough time. It will drain past the cutoff point, just give it time. I've done that a number of times with 18650 lion batteries. And then, when I checked their voltage, I had to recycle them as it would be stupid and irresponsible to continue using them. Plating has already occurred, short circuit becomes a danger. The same would apply if your Macbook's battery has drained past the cutoff point due to negligent care. Claiming that leaving your laptop on a shelf for months, drained, is fine, is downright dangerous and utterly misleading.

"What can consumers do to prevent battery swelling issues?"

They can do what you suggested, plus what I've suggested.

Limiting charge to ~ half of the capacity is technically as stressful for the battery as storing it at half capacity is. It's the least stressful when compared to low/high state of charge. The important thing is to still do enough cycling to maintain calibration.

Charge limiting means that once you reach, let's say 65%, your laptop starts using the power supply. The battery is no longer being actively discharged. It is being stored and VERY occasionally trickle charged, considering the self-discharge rate at half capacity is much slower than at 100%.

Doing the same and letting your battery sit at 100% is going to introduce a whole lot more stress to your battery. That's the point of charge limiting. I'm not sure why this point is not coming across and why anyone would ever advocate against this practice. The only reason not to do it is if you are not sure how to do it. Which is why we've created such threads where the practice is being discussed and experience is being shared.

This is an additional practice that can allow you to prolong battery life, reduce capacity loss over time, and reduce the stress that batteries go through while at max or very low state of charge.

Oh, and about my graph. That average line under my own one is "average". Meaning my line is being compared to that of all coconut users that selected the option to upload their data online. Regardless, I'm willing to revisit this thread after 7 months so we can see how capacity looks after 12 months of prolonged daily usage.

Feel free to get informed even further here:


"Lower charge voltages prolong battery life and electric vehicles and satellites take advantage of this. Similar provisions could also be made for consumer devices, but these are seldom offered; planned obsolescence takes care of this.

A laptop battery could be prolonged by lowering the charge voltage when connected to the AC grid. To make this feature user-friendly, a device should feature a “Long Life” mode that keeps the battery at 4.05V/cell and offers a SoC of about 80 percent. One hour before traveling, the user requests the “Full Capacity” mode to bring the charge to 4.20V/cell."



It is clear that a 50% limit is not user-friendly. It makes the most sense to limit so low if you mostly use your laptop plugged. Thus, 80% is suggested as a more reasonable option. Thankfully, with a charge limiter you can decide what that number is for yourself. About half capacity is ideal.

Of course, you will not see this feature anytime soon. It goes against the idea of profitability. It is more profitable to have to replace your battery while in theory you could be getting close to your maximum capacity for years by reducing the stress as much as possible.

Obviously, by reducing stress you also reduce any kind of risk of thermal runaway or other types of failure, not just capacity loss.
 
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Fred Zed

macrumors 603
Aug 15, 2019
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Upstate NY . Was FL.
I assume you have software that will allow this? I don't know of a way to do this without 3rd party software. Apple's charging management is very efficient - yes, it'll keep the battery healthy by doing 95-100% now and then, but for the most part it just sits in a charged state and runs entirely off of the wall power.

My 2017 MBP 13' is 25 months old and I have 79 charge cycles because I leave it plugged in most of the time. Up until recently I was down to 94% of design capacity.

Now if I could, I'd set my MBP to 60-80% instead of having it at 95%.

I'm disappointed to see Mac OS's new battery longevity features just drain the battery to 80% then back to 100% now and then to keep the cells energized. I'd have much rather preferred a 50-80% setting and some "exercise" routines that happen once or twice a week.

Edit: That said, with Mac OS' latest update, my battery health has gone up 2-3% (and stayed there) thanks to the exercising. Health was at 94% now it is at 97.2%.
but I thought you used Al Dente?
 
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avz

macrumors 68000
Oct 7, 2018
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He wants to reduce the cycle count. Your suggestion may be good for battery health, but it’ll increase the cycle count.
Cycle count is meaningless if the battery health is poor. He is probably making an assumption that the average buyer will know nothing about the full charge capacity and only looks at the cycle count.
 

Fred Zed

macrumors 603
Aug 15, 2019
5,867
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Upstate NY . Was FL.
At the time of that post I didn’t know about that. At least I don’t think I did. Lol
That app was amazing to me. Shame there is none such thing for the M1 silicon. I don’t use mine plugged in at all, just approx 80-40 rule and off charge usage currently.
wonder if there is an app that measures battery statistics like GSAM or Accubattery, those android apps gave stats for screen on time , application usage etc. since last charge or unplug.
 
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Apple_Robert

Contributor
Sep 21, 2012
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In a van down by the river
That app was amazing to me. Shame there is none such thing for the M1 silicon. I don’t use mine plugged in at all, just approx 80-40 rule and off charge usage currently.
wonder if there is an app that measures battery statistics like GSAM or Accubattery, those android apps gave stats for screen on time , application usage etc. since last charge or unplug.
Check out Better Battery 2 The developer is a forum member and was recently giving away free redeem codes in the code give away forum. There might be one left. It is a very good app.

 
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Mike Boreham

macrumors 68040
Aug 10, 2006
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UK
Check out Better Battery 2 The developer is a forum member and was recently giving away free redeem codes in the code give away forum. There might be one left. It is a very good app.

It does look a good informational and reporting app, but doesn't seem to offer any way of controlling charge level like Al Dente. More of a competitor to Coconut Battery.
 
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