What’s on your mind?

[Apple fanboy]

Pondering the sanity of a twit. Also wondering when I'll see a headline such as "Tourist from New York eaten alive by alligators in Florida swampland."
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The Essex Daily or the B&H Independent?

I don’t think I’ve visited Essex since I joined MR’s

 

[Huntn]

Yes, I can understand that, but quite a few guys (dudes) think that they cannot abide school, and cannot wait to escape and start earning, only to realise, years (or sometimes decades) later, that they were a little hasty or precipitate in their actions.

Understand as well about the domestic complications, but, for some, education is an escape form their life and offers opportunities that they would never be able to obtain elsewhere.

For me it was like that. Work was the escape from education. I hated it. Couldn’t get out quick enough.
These days everyone does a degree. I’m not sure they should. Some of the people with degrees I know are think as a plank.
They’d have been better off doing something better.
Then they think they are entitled because of outdated ideas of what a degree means.
Truth be told many of them are virtually unemployable.

Degrees are brilliant for a good number of reasons, but - agreed - they are not for everyone, although it is natural for parents to want their kids to be able to obtain a degree.

Historically, degrees afforded access to the middle class professions, the church, teaching, and the mid to higher ranks of the public service, thereby ensuring some element of both status and security, and often, through scholarships, afforded a means of social mobility, as well.

Personally, I'm sorry that the old system of apprenticeships has become so undervalued, - along with the decent and well paid kinds of work that those without degrees could aim towards - and would like to see something along those lines encouraged and promoted.

Having said that, it is important to ensure that kids have proper training and that a genuine career path is possible, something an economy predicated on part time work, zero hours contracts and unpaid internships cannot guarantee or offer. But, those are different arguments.

However, educationally, (and in terms of career planning) it can be very difficult to get through to boys (dudes, guys) in their mid teens. Some of them don't really wake up until they are around 25.

By 25 I’d already got married and bought my first house.
Agree apprenticeships and such were (are) undervalued.

Most degrees or higher education these days don’t have any prospect of a job at the end. I recall reading somewhere that there were three times more students studying to be beauticians than were currently employed in that role! Great career advice!

A very interesting discussion you have going. As compared to the 1970s when I was in college, I wonder how much the landscape has changed, how much need there is for a higher education today as compared to 50 years ago. Some degrees are no brainers such as professions that rely on a background in math, science, and engineering. Fine Arts or film majors may prepare you for a career in the highly competitive Commercial Arts or the film industry (movie industry), but are there still English majors? I assume this prepares you for a teaching job or editing jobs in a variety of careers.

For myself, the most bits of info I wanted to know about a career was how many openings were available and how well did it pay?

Would you describe the Liberal Arts Education as being in a state of health or on the decline in favor of Vocational studies? One important service Unions provided was on the job training.

We talked our son into 1 year of college. He went to a vocational school to become a mechanic, but described he’d rather go on an adventure and joined the USAF as a mechanic, then transferred to being a flight engineer (flight crew). He seems to enjoy it. However for him to be an officer from the start, he would have needed a 4 year degree.

When I attended college, the requirement was any 4 year degree, now they are more picky about getting a degree in something that would more applynto a military career, math, science, medical, or business/management.

So for the vast majority, I wonder if the 4 year Liberal Arts Degree still holds an important place, or is the idea of a rounded education now passé, or no longer practical, or more importantly affordable? My impression is that the cost of higher education has Sky rocketed since the 1970s, at least in the US. We could probably get involved in an energetic discussion that might end up in PRSI regarding the reasons, I’ll just describe it has the deterioration of the health and affluence of our society. I don’t know about the trends in higher educational opportunities in the UK.

As the cost of higher education increases making affordability more difficult, I can understand the perception, of why should I pay learn English or History to do my job? I’d argue that decent Language skills are important, and if we don’t know our history, we are bound to repeat our mistakes, although the latter may not directly help you manage an office of employees. As education becomes more out of reach financially, I understand the need to trim the fluff, and keep the skills just necessary to do the job being trained for.

 

[yaxomoxay]

How many humans are estimated to have ever lived?

 

[decafjava]

How many humans are estimated to have ever lived?

We have to define "human"

 

[yaxomoxay]

We have to define "human"

Homo Sapiens.

 

[Apple fanboy]

How many humans are estimated to have ever lived?

Too many. I have a list of people I’d wished had never been born!

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Cold callers.

Especially cold callers who open by requesting (in that old fashioned way) to speak to "Mr...." followed by my surname.

Two things - well, three - come to mind.

The timbre or pitch of my voice is unusually low, and I am sometimes mistaken for a male on the phone.

However, secondly, my dad has been deceased for 14 years now, so anyone who opens a phone call by asking to speak with him will not receive a warm welcome from me.

Thirdly, after his death, I had my mother's entry in the phone book changed so that it is now preceded by an initial, which means that the gender of the entry is not obvious; I didn't want her to receive crank calls - when dad was alive, she and my father had a joint entry with both (full) names.

 

[daimos]

We have to define "human"

No matter how fascinating you think of the number of humans who ever lived,
your probability of living is even more fascinating .
You and all your ancestors have survived extinction level events (comets, volcanoes), accidents, diseases, war, famine, genocide, predators, etc. (Cosmos tv show)

 

[Conutz]

A very interesting discussion you have going. As compared to the 1970s when I was in college, I wonder how much the landscape has changed, how much need there is for a higher education today as compared to 50 years ago. Some degrees are no brainers such as professions that rely on a background in math, science, and engineering.

Some degrees go beyond the material itself. The thought process, problem-solving and analytical skills learned, for example, provide an excellent grounding and are applicable to many fields. Education of this nature, in my view, will always be valuable.

 

[kazmac]

For me it was like that. Work was the escape from education. I hated it. Couldn’t get out quick enough.
These days everyone does a degree. I’m not sure they should. Some of the people with degrees I know are think as a plank.
They’d have been better off doing something better.
Then they think they are entitled because of outdated ideas of what a degree means.
Truth be told many of them are virtually unemployable.

All good points.

I was trying for my Bachelors, but fighting the validity/stupidity of this particular school/degree, and the utterly brutal hours of my present job I decided to stop. Not worth my health. I am convinced the stress I was under with school, etc. set me up for my near fatal food poisoning last summer.

Also the thought of paying another $20k for this useless degree was not agreeable.

I may not have a Bachelors or Masters, but I’ve done well in my industry. Waiting to hear if I landed better job (should be later this week). I am hoping to coordinate interview at a second firm too, but I cannot take afternoons off this week due my supervisor being on site.

I’ve learned a lot of the non-degree specific skills mentioned in other posts on the job.

 

[Huntn]

Some degrees go beyond the material itself. The thought process, problem-solving and analytical skills learned, for example, provide an excellent grounding and are applicable to many fields. Education of this nature, in my view, will always be valuable.

I don’t disagree, but I imagine people arguing just to learn practical skills to do their jobs.

 

[Apple fanboy]

All good points.

I was trying for my Bachelors, but fighting the validity/stupidity of this particular school/degree, and the utterly brutal hours of my present job I decided to stop. Not worth my health. I am convinced the stress I was under with school, etc. set me up for my near fatal food poisoning last summer.

Also the thought of paying another $20k for this useless degree was not agreeable.

I may not have a Bachelors or Masters, but I’ve done well in my industry. Waiting to hear if I landed better job (should be later this week). I am hoping to coordinate interview at a second firm too, but I cannot take afternoons off this week due my supervisor being on site.

I’ve learned a lot of the non-degree specific skills mentioned in other posts on the job.

Good luck with the interviews.
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I don’t disagree, but I imagine people arguing just to learn practical skills to do their jobs.

I think people who have actually been doing the job for the four years rather than learning about if (typically from someone who has never done the job), probably are better at the analytical and problem solving stuff. At least in my experience.

 

[LizKat]

Cold callers.

Especially cold callers who open by requesting (in that old fashioned way) to speak to "Mr...." followed by my surname.

Two things - well, three - come to mind.

The timbre or pitch of my voice is unusually low, and I am sometimes mistaken for a male on the phone.

However, secondly, my dad has been deceased for 14 years now, so anyone who opens a phone call by asking to speak with him will not receive a warm welcome from me.

Thirdly, after his death, I had my mother's entry in the phone book preceded by an initial, which means that the gender of the entry is not obvious; I didn't want her to receive crank calls - when dad was alive, she and my father had a joint entry with both (full) names.

When I choose to answer my landline (I don't use caller ID) I am amused to hear sometimes the now ancient cold caller formulation where he asks if I am the head of household after having asked for me by name. I sometimes feel like saying "no, let me go get my grandfather, he's in the shower, he''ll be thrilled to be rousted out of there to come listen to your pitch."

Cold calls do remind me that once upon a time I had my full name listed in the white pages of Manhattan. Everyone I knew did that back then to help high school friends and college mates locate you among the zillion entries for P J Smith or C K Lane in some borough of NYC.

But nowadays all a data miner needs is your name in full or in part, plus one address or phone number and they're off to the races to round up more data off store loyalty or credit cards, change of address notifications filed with the postal authorities... all that just to farm it out to some cold caller who actually reaches you despite Do Not Call listing... and pitches how would you like to buy a new septic system. I've tried to remember to let my answering machine beep into their ears lately.

 

[0388631]

Back in the day when we'd still get those types of calls, I'd simply forward them to a random number I'd pick out of the business directory and jotted down into a journal. I use to have a go with them, winding them up for a good half hour before dropping the call or putting a screamer sound clip on.

 

[LizKat]

Back in the day when we'd still get those types of calls, I'd simply forward them to a random number I'd pick out of the business directory and jotted down into a journal. I use to have a go with them, winding them up for a good half hour before dropping the call or putting a screamer sound clip on.

You are fanatically bad.

I do remember once playing a System 7 sound clip of GHWBush saying "It's clearer to me now" over and over again until the idiot who was trying to pitch me something hung up. It got simpler and quieter to mute the ringer and let calls go to the machine, and just delete my way through it once a week or so.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Some degrees go beyond the material itself. The thought process, problem-solving and analytical skills learned, for example, provide an excellent grounding and are applicable to many fields. Education of this nature, in my view, will always be valuable.

Agree absolutely.

All good points.

I was trying for my Bachelors, but fighting the validity/stupidity of this particular school/degree, and the utterly brutal hours of my present job I decided to stop. Not worth my health. I am convinced the stress I was under with school, etc. set me up for my near fatal food poisoning last summer.

Also the thought of paying another $20k for this useless degree was not agreeable.

I may not have a Bachelors or Masters, but I’ve done well in my industry. Waiting to hear if I landed better job (should be later this week). I am hoping to coordinate interview at a second firm too, but I cannot take afternoons off this week due my supervisor being on site.

I’ve learned a lot of the non-degree specific skills mentioned in other posts on the job.

The only reason to do a degree is if you actually want to study those subjects, and might derive personal and professional satisfaction from them.

I don’t disagree, but I imagine people arguing just to learn practical skills to do their jobs.

Not necessarily.

As @Conutz has observed, at their best, the humanities teach you to be able to research material, assess it, critically analyse it, and present it to make a case, either orally or in writing.

 

[kazmac]

The only reason to do a degree is if you actually want to study those subjects, and might derive personal and professional satisfaction from them.

I agree with that. An interest helps.

If it were up to me now, I'd love to get my Bachelors in graphic design and fine arts (at least that would be more useful than communications and media which is woefully out of date). Ironically, my high school (12th grade senior) art teacher said I should take graphic design, and when I went to a school that offered graphic design 14 years ago, I was told I couldn't draw to save my life and was shown the door.

In light of my self taught drawing excursion since the summer of 2017 going for a degree at my university system in these subjects would require I actually go to the colleges instead of online. I cannot do that with my work schedule and taking care of me and mom.

At any rate, if I am meant to get a Bachelors, I will. Just like anything. I've proven to myself that I am an A student (but does that really mean anything?), but I also know no piece of paper is worth losing my health and sanity over, so that's that.

---

On my mind this morning, very annoyed I am dealing with an awful arthritic attack that's cost me two days of work when my supervisor is in from Los Angeles. I thought I had the one glucosamine brand that worked for me, but I just remembered mom finished it last Fall, trying to get relief from her pain.

I am grateful that I was able to sort my IRS Federal refund this a.m. though. I received a letter saying I needed to prove my identity and after I couldn't sign up on the IRS site (thanks to verification notice issues with this iPhone 8+. Not the first time this has happened with this particular phone), I had to call in. Thankfully, I got a hold of a nice representative just now and verified my identity. I may have to wait until April 30th to receive the refund, but at least I was able to get the verification out of the way. One of two good things about being home today.

The second good thing about being home today, I am process of drawing a favorite Shaw Brothers character and this actor is tricky for me to capture. This sketch looks like him!!! So I am very happy about that and not thinking about my pain.

>

We're get a lot of obnoxious would-be scammers and phishers calling here. As soon as I hear the booop! sound, I hang up. These jerks are still trying though. I like the techniques several folks here used.

The best one for me was calling the Better Business Bureau on some clowns who pretended to be the IRS. They stopped calling immediately.

 

[Apple fanboy]

Nobody calls our landline. All calls get screened before pick up. But if it’s 2 a month I’d be surprised.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

I agree with that. An interest helps.

If it were up to me now, I'd love to get my Bachelors in graphic design and fine arts (at least that would be more useful than communications and media which is woefully out of date). Ironically, my high school (12th grade senior) art teacher said I should take graphic design, and when I went to a school that offered graphic design 14 years ago, I was told I couldn't draw to save my life and was shown the door.

In light of my self taught drawing excursion since the summer of 2017 going for a degree at my university system in these subjects would require I actually go to the colleges instead of online. I cannot do that with my work schedule and taking care of me and mom.

At any rate, if I am meant to get a Bachelors, I will. Just like anything. I've proven to myself that I am an A student (but does that really mean anything?), but I also know no piece of paper is worth losing my health and sanity over, so that's that.

---

On my mind this morning, very annoyed I am dealing with an awful arthritic attack that's cost me two days of work when my supervisor is in from Los Angeles. I thought I had the one glucosamine brand that worked for me, but I just remembered mom finished it last Fall, trying to get relief from her pain.

I am grateful that I was able to sort my IRS Federal refund this a.m. though. I received a letter saying I needed to prove my identity and after I couldn't sign up on the IRS site (thanks to verification notice issues with this iPhone 8+. Not the first time this has happened with this particular phone), I had to call in. Thankfully, I got a hold of a nice representative just now and verified my identity. I may have to wait until April 30th to receive the refund, but at least I was able to get the verification out of the way. One of two good things about being home today.

The second good thing about being home today, I am process of drawing a favorite Shaw Brothers character and this actor is tricky for me to capture. This sketch looks like him!!! So I am very happy about that and not thinking about my pain.

>

We're get a lot of obnoxious would-be scammers and phishers calling here. As soon as I hear the booop! sound, I hang up. These jerks are still trying though. I like the techniques several folks here used.

The best one for me was calling the Better Business Bureau on some clowns who pretended to be the IRS. They stopped calling immediately.

I think when opportunity allows you to undertake such a course of study, you would find it fulfilling, enriching and rewarding; a time will come when it will be right for you.

Until then, - and I do know all about the demands (and exhaustion) of caring responsibilities - just do what you have to do to live as good a life as you can.

Glad to hear that the tax refund is - if not yet in hand - at least, being attended to.

Mine has taken months, but I have been informed today that I can expect to receive it next week.

 

[Huntn]

Agree absolutely.



The only reason to do a degree is if you actually want to study those subjects, and might derive personal and professional satisfaction from them.



Not necessarily.

As @Conutz has observed, at their best, the humanities teach you to be able to research material, assess it, critically analyse it, and present it to make a case, either orally or in writing.

I am not disagreeing with that assessment, but I’m saying that when finances become an issue, I can see people arguing why do they have to learn liberal arts type subjects, that they don’t believe directly benefit them in the basics of how to do their job.

 

[0388631]

You are fanatically bad.

Next time I get one I'll relay a tragic life story of having numerous children I could barely keep up with. Obviously I'll be basing said tragic life story on the novel Mr. Poppers Penguins. You could say I'm a quaint *part of your bum* to telemarketers.

 

[LizKat]

Next time I get one I'll relay a tragic life story of having numerous children I could barely keep up with. Obviously I'll be basing said tragic life story on the novel Mr. Poppers Penguins. You could say I'm a quaint *part of your bum* to telemarketers.

Letting the machine take their pitch usually solves 90% of the problem on "illegal" calls for me, i.e. the ones that should have complied with the the Do Not Call registry and just don't. A lot of them just hang up if a machine picks up. Some though actually figure your machine is the audience so they bother to bother to pitch to it. Is half of rural America trying to make a buck running bot pitches for new septic systems into the other half of rural America's landlines?

And is it my imagination that being on the Do Not Call list in the USA is less effective than it used to be? Probably just prevalence of illegal robocalls... The Federal Trade Commission oversees compliance but with respect to unauthorized robocalls (your dentist can run a bot to remind you of next appointment because you're a customer) is running a bunch of contests in the private sector for innovative techie ways to identify, trace and otherwise throw speed bumps at robocallng scammers.

Certain categories of phone calls are exempt from having to pay mind to the don't-call registry: political, charitable, debt collection, informational, telephone survey calls.

That's the FTC's list. Basically only "sales" calls are off limits. Most people realize that a lot of the so-called "informational" calls are actually pre-sales scripts, loosely masking the wannabe seller's book of sales call scripts once you evince any interest whatsoever.

 

[kazmac]

Letting the machine take their pitch usually solves 90% of the problem on "illegal" calls for me, i.e. the ones that should have complied with the the Do Not Call registry and just don't. A lot of them just hang up if a machine picks up. Some though actually figure your machine is the audience so they bother to bother to pitch to it. Is half of rural America trying to make a buck running bot pitches for new septic systems into the other half of rural America's landlines?

And is it my imagination that being on the Do Not Call list in the USA is less effective than it used to be? Probably just prevalence of illegal robocalls... The Federal Trade Commission oversees compliance but with respect to unauthorized robocalls (your dentist can run a bot to remind you of next appointment because you're a customer) is running a bunch of contests in the private sector for innovative techie ways to identify, trace and otherwise throw speed bumps at robocallng scammers.

Certain categories of phone calls are exempt from having to pay mind to the don't-call registry: political, charitable, debt collection, informational, telephone survey calls.

That's the FTC's list. Basically only "sales" calls are off limits. Most people realize that a lot of the so-called "informational" calls are actually pre-sales scripts, loosely masking the wannabe seller's book of sales call scripts once you evince any interest whatsoever.

You're not imaging the Do Not Call list in the USA is a lot worse. We get a mix of charities and scammers, mostly scammers lately. I hear that Booup! noise and hang up. Several of them are pretending to be Apple or something else, desperate to get my CC information.

Why not get a real job and leave the honest people alone already?

Well, I just submitted my medical benefits for this year and made sure I had extra hospital and critical care elections also in place as to not repeat last year's joys. I get dinged more money out of each check, but peace of mind. Am hopeful the next jobs will have medical electives like that.

In the meantime, I will not eat any foods on the CDC Listeria list which still includes my beloved avocados.

 

[LizKat]

...CDC Listeria list...

I really admire the CDC for their relentless pursuit of the source of foodborne illnesses.

So weird to think that with listeria, one could eat something today and turn up sick from it as far out as two months later... meanwhile not even feeling ill... and perhaps not having a clue which listeria-prone products one may have consumed, or when purchased. Who would keep the wrappings of some soft cheese for that long, or even remember eating a canteloupe two months prior? I could probably say when I'd last eaten avocado ("last week" usually on the money) but I wouldn't have a clue which supermarket I'd bought them in, since they're always on my grocery list the way milk or beer is for some shoppers.

I do scrub avocado skins with a veggie brush, and paper-towel them dry before cutting into them. It's said that contamination by salmonella or listeria is nearly always external at least for avocados, only sampling around 1% within the fruit... but fairly common on the skin (17-18%).

 

[kazmac]

I really admire the CDC for their relentless pursuit of the source of foodborne illnesses.

So weird to think that with listeria, one could eat something today and turn up sick from it as far out as two months later... meanwhile not even feeling ill... and perhaps not having a clue which listeria-prone products one may have consumed, or when purchased. Who would keep the wrappings of some soft cheese for that long, or even remember eating a canteloupe two months prior? I could probably say when I'd last eaten avocado ("last week" usually on the money) but I wouldn't have a clue which supermarket I'd bought them in, since they're always on my grocery list the way milk or beer is for some shoppers.

I do scrub avocado skins with a veggie brush, and paper-towel them dry before cutting into them. It's said that contamination by salmonella or listeria is nearly always external at least for avocados, only sampling around 1% within the fruit... but fairly common on the skin (17-18%).

Excellent points.

Bless the CDC and their diligence.