It's pretty thin. I don't have it next to the new Folio, but compare to the 10.5 cover when folded, the Pro cover is a bit thicker. When open, maybe 1 or 2 mm thinner. Is the Folio very thin? 3x thinner would make it as thin as a greeting card.
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When will Apple directly compete with Surface Pro?
- Thread starter pdoherty
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It's pretty thin. I don't have it next to the new Folio, but compare to the 10.5 cover when folded, the Pro cover is a bit thicker. When open, maybe 1 or 2 mm thinner. Is the Folio very thin? 3x thinner would make it as thin as a greeting card.
That is true and I miss that in my iPP. But the Surface is not even in the same ballpark as a tablet. It is mainly a laptop and nothing else. So you can’t really compare the two devices...
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But that is the problem. Windows is even more away from a tablet OS than IOS is from MacOS. So this „whole package“ seems easier archivable by improving the iPad (or better IOS) than the other way round....
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In one sense it is but Microsoft already has the hardware there to support the full 2 in 1 experience, all they need to do now is tweak the software to accommodate the tablet mode experience. Apple needs to revamp their iOS and file system plus introduce new hardware to compete in a more proper laptop experience. Hardware like a proper stand to hold it up, a backlit keyboard and a trackpad
All those things Microsoft already has. It will be interesting to see who gets there first
I doubt they’ll ever compete with Microsoft. They like to stay in the corner when it comes to competing with others (as far as I’m concerned).
I don't expect Apple to create a 2 in 1 like you are describing. Apple will likely keep adding productivity features to iPad and keep macOS completely separate, but create a shared app platform between the two platforms to drive app development. They don't want to make the iPad a laptop, they already have that. My company has had nothing but problems with our Surface devices and it's a terrible tablet, so I am not sure how much sense it makes for Microsoft either. 2 in 1 devices just have too many compromises right now.
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They compete with Microsoft today, with laptops, desktops, and tablets. If by staying in the corner you mean selling a lot more products, then yes they will stay in the corner.
“They compete with Microsoft today, with laptops, desktops, and tablets. If by staying in the corner you mean selling a lot more products, then yes they will stay in the corner.”
Exactly.
Exactly.
The folio is pretty thin, yeah. I can barely tell the difference between the regular (keyless) folio and the keyboard folio. My Surface Pro keyboard, on the other hand, is quite noticeably thicker. I’d guess around 3x thicker, but I’ll give that it might only be 2.5x thicker. I sent back the keyboard folio yesterday so I can’t do a true measurement.
I see your point because some people want think keyboard with small key travel, others want bigger key travel. Honestly that for me is a minor detail. As long as we have choice what kind of keyboard we want to use it's all fine. Some would use thin ones, others would use thicker ones. The ergonomics of the keyboard itself IMO are not that important because in the end of they day there are enough Bluetooth keyboards on the market. And I doubt the actual choice would have impact on the device itself.
What has impact is the functionality of the keyboard itself - trackpad or no trackpad, function keys or no function keys. For function keys I believe iOS has support even now (correct if I am wrong) so we are left with trackpad where obviously there are two groups. Some want it, others don't.
I have few questions for people that do not want the trackpad:
1. Do you like the way you edit text in iOS? I am assuming you do. I don't. It's PITA. Magnifying glass is inaccurate and slow. I want a cursor that is visible that I can move however I want without waiting for the magnifying glass. That could be done without trackpad btw. It works great in Android without trackpad or external keyboard. It's called visible cursor.
2. For the guys that manage to hook up external monitor to your iPad. What is your use case? How do you use it? I mean for me this is weird. You have to constantly look at the iPad to actually move around something on the bigger monitor. I see only one useful use case for this - making presentations for people. I use multiple monitors for daily work though and I need to switch apps and files between monitors. Do you have such case and how do you do it?
3. Do you use your iPad for doing multiple things in the same time. Like for example doing something in Procreate while chatting with people. Or working on a document and chatting with people explaining them something from said document. Watching videos and chatting with people. If yes how do you manage to do this? I assume with split screen (maybe). Do you find the 12.9 inch enough for such tasks (I don't hence why I am asking).
4. Do you find the gestures in iOS intuitive and easy to use? I don't. I am sorry but I don't want to be bothered to remember all of those gestures. I can't find any logic in them and some of them are so similar to each other. The gesture for closing an app and accessing the dock are almost the same. I quite often do this mistake. The gesture for accessing all open apps often does not work. The gesture for the Control Center does not always work either. For cases like this I want to have other means to do those tasks.
5. How often do you use the hardware keyboard and what for? How do you deal with using touch for switching between apps and the keyboard. Do you rely only shortcuts (plus function keys) when you use the hardware keyboard? If yes do you find them sufficient for what you do?
I am asking because for me personally it's not about having trackpad and mouse per se. It's about fixing those issues so if you have ideas how iOS could be improved to solve those issues I am all ears.
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Interesting. I was unaware, I’ve never really used Chrome OS. I’ll check it out. And I hope you’re right, apple needs better competition in the tablet market to hopefully inspire some innovation.
People dump on iOS on iPads (me included) but the dock, drag and drop, split screen, it’s made more progress recently than I think it’s get credit for. The issue for me as an iPad Pro owner, is that the $329 iPad basically does the same thing for the fraction of the price. I’d like to see more a “pro” OS.
I do think it’s hilarious that mouse support and a file system would basically achieve this for me, something THAT simple, but refuses to adhere. Seems like something they could easily add in.
I used Chromebooks from when they first appeared up until last year as an experiment. They can be very inexpensive, fast and simple to use. I found that if I gave up having to use the MS Office Suite and move to cloud apps, I could get most productivity work done. But when it came to some very important programs like Adobe CC suite, well that is where it fell short. Like an iPad Pro, I could use a Cromebook for 80% of what I did but not all of it.
Chrome OS is starting to get mature and makes a compelling alternative to a traditional desktop OS.
I am in the files-centric boat for a couple reasons.
First, I work on projects that span different applications. When I’m working on a project, I want to have all my associated files organized in one place rather than having to look for them scattered around in different apps.
Second, in my view, apps come and go—it’s the files that I want to keep forever. And I don’t want them associated with (and possibly locked to) a particular app any more than I have to.
I’d actually prefer that apps be invisible and get out of the way of files as much as possible. But then, devs make more money when their apps are in the limelight. Of course, I’m talking about creation apps. Consumption apps are a different thing.
Edit- on second thought, this might apply to a lot of consumption apps as well.
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To me the new iPad Pro with a keyboard is basically a Surface Pro. Touch screen, keyboard, healthy processor, etc.
Pretty much the only difference overall between the two is one has no mouse support, and a limited OS.
Pretty much the only difference overall between the two is one has no mouse support, and a limited OS.
I feel the same way. This is why the current Photos organization in iOS do not work for me. When I do something in Procreate I have a lot of additional pictures (reference pictures, palette colors samples etc) and I want them in one place. Same when it comes to work. Unfortunately I have to support my team and with 25 people we work on at least 10 different projects in the same time. I need some separation for them because otherwise it gets really messy.
I have both the iOS apps (pages, keynote and numbers) and the Microsoft apps. I want to use only the Microsoft apps because I have Windows machines both at work and at home. iOS however always opens such files with the iOS apps and in the process it even creates another files and I don't want that. Can I make iOS to open such files by default with the Microsoft apps?
The battery life of the surface is abysmal at about 50% of iPad's. Speaking of batteries, Surface pen still requires a AAAA battery, right?
I tried the Surface three different times and returned them within a week. Hope Apple does not copy the surface.
I've owned a SP4 and a SP6; both were returned. I don't even know why I bought the SP6 except that I get caught up in the hype Surface owners generate about what an amazing device it is, then when I actually get it setup I have that realization that it's just a Windows ultrabook with a floppy, unstable keyboard. I would hate for Apple to copy the Surface; keep making iOS more capable and focus on the iPad. That's where the money is in the long term.
Yep, I bought the 1st one and returned it same day. I think I had the 3 and 5 after that and that was the end of it.
You pay way too much for a form factor that is not very practical.
iOS doesn’t let you choose default apps unfortunately. But what app are you using to open the files?
Thanks for the answer! I currently use the default Files app (iOS newbie
). Do you think that there iOS apps that could help me with this issue?While there is a learning curve, I do actually find them pretty intuitive. But they are obviously designed for iPhones first. They work in a much more sensible way there because you have haptic feedback giving you a little nudges to tell you when you are doing them right. The lack of that on the iPad makes them less responsive and the larger screen means you need larger movements to do things. Especially the dock vs home screen gesture can often be triggered wrong.
Apple could do a lot better job indicating when something is swipable, e.g. if you have slide over app in use. Now there is no visual indicator for this.
I do prefer this gesture based system to having constant on screen buttons. Being able to use the Magic Trackpad 2 to do all these while connected to an external screen would go far in making the iPad Pro more usable.
I think the point you missing is that without Apple's ecosytem, people will say
Surface is "not a tablet". I your an artist/handwriter needing only productivity apps, Surface is a clear winner. I your just an artist, ipp may be the best bet.
Thanks for the answer! I currently use the default Files app (iOS newbie
Sorry, I haven’t used the Files app very much. I use dropbox and occasionally Documents by readdle. For those apps, you either view/edit the files directly (in the app), or if you can’t, you have to choose another app you want to share the files to, then share them back to dropbox/documents each time. I haven’t had to use my iPad that way often, so I haven’t looked into better solutions.
Thanks for sharing your experience! That could be culprit though. I don't own an iPhone so my first attempt at working with iOS gestures is on an iPad. Maybe for a lot of people the process was starting from the iPhone where you say that it's a bit easier as you receive some sort of feedback.
I do actually have issues with the fact the screen is bigger. Some gestures require indeed larger movements that I do not find comfortable making.
Good point!
For me it's about balance. Gestures are great, but honestly the more gestures you have, the less intuitive the system becomes. At some point there are just too many to remember.
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Ah I see. Thanks. I use the OneDrive app as well. It seems to be a bit better when it comes to this because it knows to use the Microsoft apps
.