When will Apple directly compete with Surface Pro?

[secretk]

I said sitting in bed lol. Sitting, pillow propped up on the headboard for back support, tv wallmounted with iPad in front of me. It’s a nice set up for late at night

I do the same but with my laptop - bigger screen, more stable on my lap. However I don't own a TV. Never needed one. I use my laptop for media consumption and stream TV directly there.

 

[tromboneaholic]

Now I give you that. Apple are careful in the way they do marketing. They do it in a way where you could never say "they claimed this and that", but I don't see it. They play with words carefully so that we can always have discussion on "did they advertise it as a laptop replacement or not". And in the end of the day you could definitely see that some interpret this as yes, others as not. Based on this different people have different expectations.

I think the visuals in the marketing are important as well, and are being overlooked by some tech people who forget that lifestyle also counts.

The settings, uses and people being shown define who the "your" Apple is taking to in "5 reasons iPad pro can be your next computer."

If you don't identify with any of the lifestyles, people or tasks they are doing, you're not going to think it could be yours.

 

[Mac 128]

Isn't that's one of the Pencil many usage for? To facilitate text input? I mean, I'm writing this post in bed on the iPad & Pencil. Much more comfortable & up-close personal.

Yes, inquring mind wants to know

The Pencil makes it even harder to use in some cases. I would never type on an external keyboard, move my hand to pick up a pencil to reach up to the screen at an awkward angle with no hand support to make an edit then put it back down, and move my hand back to the keyboard, that's so many more steps than just moving my thumb to a trackpad, or to the side of the keyboard. Besides, Apple tells us that lifting one's hand to touch a screen makes no sense on a laptop because it's fatiguing and ergonomically inefficient. And I'd hate to place my Pencil on the iPad, and have to reach for, and pull it off its magnets every time I wanted to edit some aspect fo a document, then put it back, or risk it getting lost in the sheets or the couch cushions. But that's just me.

So don't assume what works for you, however inexplicably, works for everyone, including Apple. I can't even fathom how you'd juggle all of those items and a keyboard, per the OP, comfortably while laying back on a sofa, much less a bed.

 

[DNichter]

It depends on the perception and interpretation. This is not how it's advertised though. It's specifically said that it's more powerful than a laptop (which is irrelevant as I can't run any meaningful software to me there to actually take advantage of said power), that it's a laptop replacement and that it can be the only computer you will ever need.

Now I give you that. Apple are careful in the way they do marketing. They do it in a way where you could never say "they claimed this and that", but I don't see it. They play with words carefully so that we can always have discussion on "did they advertise it as a laptop replacement or not". And in the end of the day you could definitely see that some interpret this as yes, others as not. Based on this different people have different expectations.

And obviously some people (though let's agree not that big amount) do have the expectation that the iPad is a laptop replacement. It seems that all tech reviewers are on this opinion as well. That in itself shows that for some people Apple do claim that iPad is a laptop replacement. And obviously for people like me and few others as well as tech reviewers are not.

Then we have two other groups. Group of people that do not see it as a replacement but they never expected it to be and they are OK with this so they do not care and group of people that do find it as a replacement as it fits in with their needs and workflow.

That's fair. You're right, it is all in the wording. The power is legitimate though as some apps (Affinity, Luma, Photoshop) will take advantage of the power, but I get that the app support isn't there for all situations. I think people on these forums (which is a small, particular group) get hung up on the laptop replacement aspect because they are only thinking of themselves (fair). The bulk of consumers who buy PC's need them for browsing and media. I think this is where Apple is aiming when they market it as a viable computer replacement (I like to say alternative). I like the conversation though as I feel that there is a good amount of people who genuinely want it to be a laptop replacement, but it just needs more macOS-like functionality and app support. I personally don't think we are too far off.

 

[secretk]

I think the visuals in the marketing are important as well, and are being overlooked by some tech people who forget that lifestyle also counts.

The settings, uses and people being shown define who the "your" Apple is taking to in "5 reasons iPad pro can be your next computer."

If you don't identify with any of the people or tasks they are doing, you're not going to think it could be your's.

I have to admit that I have not checked the visuals. I do not have the time and patience to watch the full keynote. Sorry. You are right though. I am a pro user in the sense that I care about specs a lot and about power. Whenever I see powerful device I always run checks in my head what kind of processes I could run through it to take advantage of said power. And of course those heavy processes should make sense to me and be relevant for my usage. So for me it's about this, but for others could be visuals for sure.

Edit: Another reason is the pricing. The new iPad pro has the price of quite good laptop. Naturally people start comparing them. Or at least some of them (OK, me) and ask the question "is it worth it to buy the iPad pro instead of this powerful laptop"? And the next question is "can it replace the laptop that I could buy for the same price?". As for me the answer is NO. I naturally go to the next question. Can this powerful laptop do what the iPad can do? The answer is not that good because the pencil experience is better on the iPad compared to the 2 in 1 laptops. So then I am like "So I will buy the regular iPad, the powerful laptop and wait for 2 in 1 laptops to get better or for Apple to provide 2 in 1 experience". We all know what is more feasible to happen :lol: .

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That's fair. You're right, it is all in the wording. The power is legitimate though as some apps (Affinity, Luma, Photoshop) will take advantage of the power, but I get that the app support isn't there for all situations.

Agree with you completely there. Man if you use the iPad for photos and video editing you can take advantage of that power for sure.

I think people on these forums (which is a small, particular group) get hung up on the laptop replacement aspect because they are only thinking of themselves (fair).

Completely true!

The bulk of consumers who buy PC's need them for browsing and media. I think this is where Apple is aiming when they market it as a viable computer replacement (I like to say alternative).

That's true but honestly you do not need that much power for this. Regular iPad works great for media consumption and browsing.

I like the conversation though as I feel that there is a good amount of people who genuinely want it to be a laptop replacement, but it just needs more macOS-like functionality and app support. I personally don't think we are too far off.

Yeah not every opinion shared in these discussions is productive one or useful you know. There is always filtering, but I think that we could gain something just by thinking in this direction.

 

[djas]

The Pencil makes it even harder to use in some cases. I would never type on an external keyboard, move my hand to pick up a pencil to reach up to the screen at an awkward angle with no hand support to make an edit then put it back down, and move my hand back to the keyboard, that's so many more steps than just moving my thumb to a trackpad, or to the side of the keyboard. Besides, Apple tells us that lifting one's hand to touch a screen makes no sense on a laptop because it's fatiguing and ergonomically inefficient. And I'd hate to place my Pencil on the iPad, and have to reach for, and pull it off its magnets every time I wanted to edit some aspect fo a document, then put it back, or risk it getting lost in the sheets or the couch cushions. But that's just me.

So don't assume what works for you, however inexplicably, works for everyone, including Apple. I can't even fathom how you'd juggle all of those items and a keyboard, per the OP, comfortably while laying back on a sofa, much less a bed.

Are you sure you are replying to the correct person?

I did not use an external keyboard to type that post fyi. For this simple a task, I don't even need an iPad; an iPhone will suffice.

 

[Mac 128]

I said sitting in bed lol. Sitting, pillow propped up on the headboard for back support, tv wallmounted with iPad in front of me. It’s a nice set up for late at night

So the iPad leans against your raised knees, and the BT keyboard rests in your lap? I mean, sure I've done something similar I guess, but of course, if you have to get up to go to the bathroom, that's two pieces you have to move to the side. The laptop is all one piece. Something like the Apple keyboard folio wouldn't work at ali I wouldn't think, but I haven't really tried it -- at least it would be all one piece. The laptop isn't perfect either, since sometimes I want the angle of the screen greater than it's physically capable of opening up to accommodate. But a laptop that could open 180 degrees, or close to that would solve the problem. I do see one advantage to using a separate BT keyboard with the iPad in that situation -- sometimes I take the iPad to the bathroom with me to keep reading something, and doing that with the attached keyboard would be far more clumsy. That said, I've also carried the laptop to the bathroom to keep reading something, and had no problem carrying it with one hand to do so.
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Are you sure you are replying to the correct person?

I did not use an external keyboard to type that post fyi. For this simple a task, I don't even need an iPad; an iPhone will suffice.

You were replying to my response to the OP, who was using a keyboard, including my exact wording to the OP, "inquiring minds want to know". I also addressed your specific use of a Pencil for editing, and how that was even worse than a trackpad in my opinion, keyboard or no. But now I'm wondering if you're replying to the right post, since it's not possible to use a Pencil with any iPhone.

 

[1BadManVan]

I think apple has overpriced the pro for the category they want it to compete in. I think the regular iPad sits comfortably where I needs to be at its price point. Making a good laptop replacement for those who only use laptops for the simpler tasks

They want the pro to compete on the higher levels for laptop alternatives but iOS is too locked down considering the price point they put it at. But people still buy them, they make them visually appealing enough for the consumer to get sucked into the high pricing

Seeing as they are over double the cost of a standard ipad, they don’t really do much more then one. They just do the same thing better

 

[djas]

You were replying to my response to the OP, who was using a keyboard, including my exact wording to the OP, "inquiring minds want to know". I also addressed your specific use of a Pencil for editing, and how that was even worse than a trackpad in my opinion, keyboard or no.

Thin & light iPad + OSK +Pencil = tap tap tap.

But now I'm wondering if you're replying to the right post, since it's not possible to use a Pencil with any iPhone.

You don't say.

 

[DNichter]

I think apple has overpriced the pro for the category they want it to compete in. I think the regular iPad sits comfortably where I needs to be at its price point. Making a good laptop replacement for those who only use laptops for the simpler tasks

They want the pro to compete on the higher levels for laptop alternatives but iOS is too locked down considering the price point they put it at. But people still buy them, they make them visually appealing enough for the consumer to get sucked into the high pricing

Seeing as they are over double the cost of a standard ipad, they don’t really do much more then one. They just do the same thing better

For some people, the Pro is worth it. I use mine as my main work and personal computer so a $799 price tag isn’t a huge deal for me. The $329 iPad, I agree though, is a great value for a lot of people. Good by Apple for offering it. Think of the difference between the iPad and iPad Pro as the same between the MacBook and MacBook Pro. Both have the same OS and can do generally the same things, but the Pro offers more power and more features.

 

[djas]

I think apple has overpriced the pro for the category they want it to compete in. I think the regular iPad sits comfortably where I needs to be at its price point. Making a good laptop replacement for those who only use laptops for the simpler tasks

They want the pro to compete on the higher levels for laptop alternatives but iOS is too locked down considering the price point they put it at. But people still buy them, they make them visually appealing enough for the consumer to get sucked into the high pricing

Seeing as they are over double the cost of a standard ipad, they don’t really do much more then one. They just do the same thing better

I find myself carrying 3 devices (iphone, ipad & mbp) to & from work everyday. That gets old after awhile. The only thing I do on the iPP is to annotate music sheets and I need the mbp for DAWs. Here's wishing both these devices can be combined into one.

At this rate I think I will let go of the iPP and just use a Wacom tablet for my annotations on the mbp.

This year is the first time ever that I do not upgrade to the latest iPP & iPhone due to price & device fatique (I think) & the new mbp models are not appealing at all. I have never been out of Apple ecosystem & doesn't know any other systems and this makes me feeling trapped & at a lost.

I see Mr (husband) with his Note & Surface combo & am wondering if I can do an iPhone & Surface combo. Isn't that upsetting when a lifelong Apple user is thinking those thoughts? Something is rotten in the state of Denmark.

 

[Cape Dave]

So then I would say that it isn’t very useful speculation. There is no way to prove that they would actually gain anywhere near that amount of sales from mouse and pointer support. Not to mention that there is a chance that they would lose sales from it as well.

It would be negligible at best.

Your opinion does not change my opinion. Apple will eventually get with the program. And act like it is a new idea that they were so smart to think of.

 

[Knowimagination]

Your opinion does not change my opinion. Apple will eventually get with the program. And act like it is a new idea that they were so smart to think of.

If by “get with the program” you mean add mouse support I sure hope you are wrong because I’m convinced that will be the sign of the beginning of the death of the iPad.

 

[Mac 128]

If by “get with the program” you mean add mouse support I sure hope you are wrong because I’m convinced that will be the sign of the beginning of the death of the iPad.

Right, because Apple will make every customer sign an agreement forcing them to use a mouse?

They market the iPad as having a virtual trackpad now. But when a physical keyboard is attached, they don't make a comparable physical trackpad available as well to duplicate that function. So at a minimum they should add mouse support for that. But even if it's there, it doesn't mean anybody is even going to use it. The iPad has plenty of features I don't use now, like the virtual trackpad. So how does making an optional feature available to some users who may benefit from it, even remotely suggest the death of the iPad?

 

[Cape Dave]

If by “get with the program” you mean add mouse support I sure hope you are wrong because I’m convinced that will be the sign of the beginning of the death of the iPad.

That is precisely what I mean.

 

[Knowimagination]

Right, because Apple will make every customer sign an agreement forcing them to use a mouse?

They market the iPad as having a virtual trackpad now. But when a physical keyboard is attached, they don't make a comparable physical trackpad available as well to duplicate that function. So at a minimum they should add mouse support for that. But even if it's there, it doesn't mean anybody is even going to use it. The iPad has plenty of features I don't use now, like the virtual trackpad. So how does making an optional feature available to some users who may benefit from it, even remotely suggest the death of the iPad?

That is precisely what I mean.

The fact that yall don't even understand the argument being made over and over again is astounding to me.

 

[Cape Dave]

The fact that yall don't even understand the argument being made over and over again is astounding to me.

You do know I am not saying make mouse support MANDATORY, right? Just optional. Use it, or not. I guess we will have to wait until Apple finally does this. Then you can say what a great idea it is

 

[Knowimagination]

You do know I am not saying make mouse support MANDATORY, right? Just optional. Use it, or not. I guess we will have to wait until Apple finally does this. Then you can say what a great idea it is

I have explained numerous times in several different threads why adding mouse support is not a "no big deal thing" I get that people want to think it isn't a big deal but it will be a game changer in a negative way in my opinion.

Feel free to follow my account if apple adds mouse support to the iPad you will never see me say a positive thing about it.

 

[Cape Dave]

I have explained numerous times in several different threads why adding mouse support is not a "no big deal thing" I get that people want to think it isn't a big deal but it will be a game changer in a negative way in my opinion.

Feel free to follow my account if apple adds mouse support to the iPad you will never see me say a positive thing about it.

Time will tell us all. Somehow I am finding it difficult to second guess a company that will not even put a few cheap LED's in its "keyboards", even for $170. Mouse support, LED's, headphone jacks, they are up to something, and I am not even sure they know what, except for "thinness".

 

[The Samurai]

Time will tell us all. Somehow I am finding it difficult to second guess a company that will not even put a few cheap LED's in its "keyboards", even for $170. Mouse support, LED's, headphone jacks, they are up to something, and I am not even sure they know what, except for "thinness".

The next smart cover next year will come with backlit keys and they are going to let us know how magical it is.

 

[Booji]

The next smart cover next year will come with backlit keys and they are going to let us know how magical it is.

The Surface Pro keyboard is backlit. The entire experience is amazing - lots of travel and yet still quiet and very light. The magnet is strong, yet easy to remove when you want to - much better executed than Apple's keyboards.

Wait, there is more - it even has a magical track pad!

 

[1BadManVan]

Imagine if the surface pro had a more iPad like touch screen experience? That would be the whole package!

 

[The Samurai]

The Surface Pro keyboard is backlit. The entire experience is amazing - lots of travel and yet still quiet and very light. The magnet is strong, yet easy to remove when you want to - much better executed than Apple's keyboards.

Wait, there is more - it even has a magical track pad!

You mean the same way in which the Surface pen magnetically attached to the Surface before the iPad Pro III did?

 

[Booji]

Imagine if the surface pro had a more iPad like touch screen experience? That would be the whole package!

It sure would! I think Microsoft will eventually realize the full 2-in-1 vision, granted I think it has a while to go.
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You mean the same way in which the Surface pen magnetically attached to the Surface before the iPad Pro III did?

Yea, like the Hello face ID too.....which BTW works very well even at distance

 

[flur]

The next smart cover next year will come with backlit keys and they are going to let us know how magical it is.

And it will be $250 for the 11” and $275 for the 12.9”
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The Surface Pro keyboard is backlit. The entire experience is amazing - lots of travel and yet still quiet and very light. The magnet is strong, yet easy to remove when you want to - much better executed than Apple's keyboards.

Wait, there is more - it even has a magical track pad!

It’s also 3x as thick.