When will Apple directly compete with Surface Pro?

[booksbooks]

I want an OS X tablet like the Suface Pro that can be a tablet or a docked laptop (with keyboard and trackpad). Why does Apple ignore this segment?

No you don’t want that.

OS X has both point and click AND MULTI-TOUCH just like iOS. The combination of hardware and software with OS X and Mac computers is optimized with huge trackpads that are multi-touch.

IOS is a smartphone operating system designed for meaty fingers.

Both operating systems serve their functions well, but not to be mixed.

My perspective is that an operating system would need to be created where itself and all of the Apps are responsive: one codebase, works on any device. This is a lot of work. I also view this future operating system as something much more fluid that gets out of the way and can work on multiple screens like a wall screen, desk-based screen, tablets, smartphones, desktops, etc.

Microsoft has the right idea with Windows 10 and devices like the Surface Pro, but the Surface Pro is a crappy laptop and a crappy tablet because it tries to be both and does neither as good as each category of device it purports to contend with.

So far, the best emodiment of what I’m envisioning is the Microsoft Surface Studio PC. That is like a future iMac. Apple cannot do this because of their dual operating systems. Down the road Apple will release a new OS and we’ll see what they develop at that time.

 

[haruhiko]

I think that most of the complaints for the iPad are at the functional/feature level rather than at the fundamental OS level. So no, and macOS iPad is not the solution. Apple should add more tablet features to iOS instead. There is nothing technical preventing Apple from adding external storage support to iOS.

 

[cardfan]

Even if they have their own goals and do not want to make a touch screen laptop, isn't money the bigger motivation. They know there is demand for it. A powerful tablet running macOS, with a keyboard attachment and mouse/pointer support. They have to know it would sell like crazy. I would buy it. I just don't understand why they can't get their heads out of the sand and give the customers what they want.

Basically that’s an iPad killer. And apple doesn’t want that until they can make a killing off apps. I don’t buy the nonsense that apple thinks a touchscreen laptop doesn’t work well. Their iPad and keyboard says otherwise. I think they’d rather sell iPads than macs as they’ll keep making money off you on iOS.

 

[TheRealAlex]

I want an OS X tablet like the Suface Pro that can be a tablet or a docked laptop (with keyboard and trackpad). Why does Apple ignore this segment?

Everyone wants an Apple product like the Surface Pro. Everyone.
And guess what Apple willl never make.
Why? Because they outsell it ten times over, by offering a MacBook Pro with Touch Bar and a iPad Pro.

 

[Rogifan]

Everyone wants an Apple product like the Surface Pro. Everyone.
And guess what Apple willl never make.
Why? Because they outsell it ten times over, by offering a MacBook Pro with Touch Bar and a iPad Pro.

Speak for yourself. I don’t. I don’t own a Mac and don’t have any need to use macOS. Apple has 100M Mac users and over 1B iOS users so clearly I’m not the only one.

 

[fokmik]

Everyone wants an Apple product like the Surface Pro. Everyone.
And guess what Apple willl never make.
Why? Because they outsell it ten times over, by offering a MacBook Pro with Touch Bar and a iPad Pro.

haha everyone, but almost no-one buy surface...
Apple the closes product with surface, will be the ipad pro but with iOS and pointer support...not OS X that will be a disaster with touch input..like windows 8 was and even win 10 still is
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Speak for yourself. I don’t. I don’t own a Mac and don’t have any need to use macOS. Apple has 100B Mac users and over 1B iOS users so clearly I’m not the only one.

100B mac users? i think you wanted to write 100Mil ?

 

[Ralfi]

Apple eat into competitor markets, not their own.

 

[IowaLynn]

Microsoft planned the Surface Go, which I have, to use SnapDragon. That's been in the works for two yeats... except Intel sweetened the deal and lowered their price keeping them for now with x86. But the move to put Snapdragon like the SD1000 in laptops or 2in1 will.

Android apps for Surface?

Apple sounds like they want to be less dependent on Intel and use their own Axx chips. And meld hardware and software.

Apple seems like a lead from behind. They killed the Mac Pro with a trash can, then offer an iMac 4 years later. Apple screws up iOS with new build number rather than simply improve what they have and pour fit for new device hardware at same time. They are their own worst enemy.

MacBook 2020 with A20 chip???

 

[Rogifan]

100B mac users? i think you wanted to write 100Mil ?

Oops yes, corrected.
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Apple eat into competitor markets, not their own.

Right, because iPhone didn’t eat into iPod at all.

 

[Zimmy68]

Apple would have to re-write OS X for touch screen which is something they have no interest in doing.

 

[Rogifan]

Basically that’s an iPad killer. And apple doesn’t want that until they can make a killing off apps. I don’t buy the nonsense that apple thinks a touchscreen laptop doesn’t work well. Their iPad and keyboard says otherwise. I think they’d rather sell iPads than macs as they’ll keep making money off you on iOS.

I still think Apple execs believe touching a vertical screen is not a good experience but adding mouse and trackpad support to iOS is not trivial and in some ways is not the future of computing, its legacy. I’m sure there have been plenty of debates inside Apple about bringing those features to iOS or at least iPad.

Microsoft isn’t really playing in the mobile space and Windows 8 was a disaster. Surface exists because everyone wants to be Apple in some way. Heck Panos Panay admitted that he wakes up in the morning thinking about Apple. Why do you think Amazon released a phone and even Facebook is doing hardware now? Hardware/gadgets gets more love and attention from the tech press. The Verge couldn’t care less about some new Azure feature but release a Surface Pro in a new color and they’re all over it.

 

[x-evil-x]

imagine a dual operating system. The current os style and a full blown Mac style with larger more touch friendly buttons. I think they know they would and could sell an iPad with full Mac software on it for a grand or more.
I personally would pay a grand for a tablet with Mac software on it.
I dont think they want to hurt sales of other computers is why. Theres still a market for norma laptop and a tablet experience with full Mac software on it im hoping they do release something like that in the next few years.

 

[zhenya]

imagine a dual operating system. The current os style and a full blown Mac style with larger more touch friendly buttons. I think they know they would and could sell an iPad with full Mac software on it for a grand or more.
I personally would pay a grand for a tablet with Mac software on it.
I dont think they want to hurt sales of other computers is why. Theres still a market for norma laptop and a tablet experience with full Mac software on it im hoping they do release something like that in the next few years.

Microsoft built exactly that with Windows 8. It was a massive failure.

Even today Windows 10 is merely passable as a tablet operating system. People buy Windows laptops that can do a few tablet-like things. Virtually nobody buys a Windows 10 device as a pure tablet.

Apple’s direction is crystal clear here. MacOS is not coming to the iPad.

 

[x-evil-x]

Microsoft built exactly that with Windows 8. It was a massive failure.

Even today Windows 10 is merely passable as a tablet operating system. People buy Windows laptops that can do a few tablet-like things. Virtually nobody buys a Windows 10 device as a pure tablet.

Apple’s direction is crystal clear here. MacOS is not coming to the iPad.

the tablet style operating system was just bad though. I think a real Mac OS on an iPad will appeal to a lot of people. Not huge buttons but slightly oversized from the original.

 

[zhenya]

the tablet style operating system was just bad though. I think a real Mac OS on an iPad will appeal to a lot of people. Not huge buttons but slightly oversized from the original.

Why would Apple do this? Currently they can sell you two devices that each excel in their niche. If they converge devices they get to sell you one device that is not optimized for either use.

 

[x-evil-x]

Why would Apple do this? Currently they can sell you two devices that each excel in their niche. If they converge devices they get to sell you one device that is not optimized for either use.

to have a real tablet that runs good software? I mean, there are a lot of people that wont buy iPads because its the software isn't the real experience of a computer.

 

[zhenya]

to have a real tablet that runs good software? I mean, there are a lot of people that wont buy iPads because its the software isn't the real experience of a computer.

But there are a lot more people who buy both a Mac and an iPad because an iPad does a lot of things better than a traditional computer.

Having MacOS on an iPad is one of those things that sounds great to a few people in theory. In reality it is pretty much a certainty that Apple would sell many fewer iPads if they did not run on iOS.

 

[x-evil-x]

But there are a lot more people who buy both a Mac and an iPad because an iPad does a lot of things better than a traditional computer.

Having MacOS on an iPad is one of those things that sounds great to a few people in theory. In reality it is pretty much a certainty that Apple would sell many fewer iPads if they did not run on iOS.

a dual system you can choose from would increase sales of their iPad a great amount imo

 

[zhenya]

a dual system you can choose from would increase sales of their iPad a great amount imo

And once again, even a mythical dual system (that somehow runs both iOS and MacOS?) would now mean Apple sells one device whereas now they sell two. Why would they do that?

The iPad already outsells the Macbook by huge margins. They aren’t going to sell more of them by adding MacOS to the iPad. They will just sell fewer devices in total at a lower overall cost. And they’d likely lose a lot of iPad sales because the iPad would no longer be so simple and reliable.

 

[x-evil-x]

And once again, even a mythical dual system (that somehow runs both iOS and MacOS?) would now mean Apple sells one device whereas now they sell two. Why would they do that?

increase sales and actually have a laptop replacement. Not everyone will want a iPad Mac experience they will still buy a laptop over an iPad with macOS.

 

[DNichter]

I feel like they do already, they make a lot of good laptops. The Surface is a bad tablet, so it's just another touchscreen laptop. The same as the ones they sell for $300, there isn't a big difference. I don't see Apple compromising the way that Microsoft has, they will continue to add more and more features to iOS.
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Everyone wants an Apple product like the Surface Pro. Everyone.
And guess what Apple willl never make.
Why? Because they outsell it ten times over, by offering a MacBook Pro with Touch Bar and a iPad Pro.

Not for me, personally. I much prefer iOS at this point and hope that they keep the platforms very separate. I think Marzipan is an effort to bring more pro apps to the iPad, but that's about it.

 

[JP913]

One, I feel like the iPP directly competes with the Surface. I suppose it just depends on what you need to accomplish.

Two, I’ve used and owned a Surface, and I hated it. I think there’s a lot of folks claiming they want MacOS on the iPP, but I don’t think a full OS is a great experience on a tablet. At least it wasn’t on the Surface.

To me, there’s only two things that I want Apple to add to the iPP, and I’d be completely satisfied...

The ability to use external hard drives (which you can work around right now, but it would be nice to have an easier option), and a Apple solution for using the iPP as a second screen with a Mac, ala Wacom tablets (not mirrored! Full second screen!)

 

[sracer]

And once again, even a mythical dual system (that somehow runs both iOS and MacOS?) would now mean Apple sells one device whereas now they sell two. Why would they do that?

The iPad already outsells the Macbook by huge margins. They aren’t going to sell more of them by adding MacOS to the iPad. They will just sell fewer devices in total at a lower overall cost. And they’d likely lose a lot of iPad sales because the iPad would no longer be so simple and reliable.

Correct... but times and markets change.

Apple has no reason now to offer that mythical dual system. Although the volume of iPad sales is declining, Apple is making up for it with higher prices. It's pretty obvious that is their plan and as long as it results in revenue and profit numbers that meet (or exceed) their goals, they'll keep doing that.

Of the handful of 2-in-1 devices that attempt to provide a dual system, they are slowing gaining in market awareness if not marketshare. The Surface Go/Pro line is doing well. It's very early, but, Chrome OS tablets are being released that might be seen as a longer term (2-4 years) alternative.

An increase in the sales of those devices will get Apple's attention. But they most likely won't react to that unless sales of the iPad Pro line decrease concurrently.

Apple was against 7" tablets, but once 7" Android tablets started growing in sales, Apple responded by producing the iPad Mini.

Apple was against phablets, but once Android phablets begain selling in serious numbers, Apple capitulated and started producing phablets.

Apple was against styli, but once devices like the Surface Pro offered them with desktop-strength apps, Apple produced the Pencil.

If iPad Pro sales were to drop because dual systems from their competition are selling, Apple will reconsider.

 

[DNichter]

Correct... but times and markets change.

Apple has no reason now to offer that mythical dual system. Although the volume of iPad sales is declining, Apple is making up for it with higher prices. It's pretty obvious that is their plan and as long as it results in revenue and profit numbers that meet (or exceed) their goals, they'll keep doing that.

Of the handful of 2-in-1 devices that attempt to provide a dual system, they are slowing gaining in market awareness if not marketshare. The Surface Go/Pro line is doing well. It's very early, but, Chrome OS tablets are being released that might be seen as a longer term (2-4 years) alternative.

An increase in the sales of those devices will get Apple's attention. But they most likely won't react to that unless sales of the iPad Pro line decrease concurrently.

Apple was against 7" tablets, but once 7" Android tablets started growing in sales, Apple responded by producing the iPad Mini.

Apple was against phablets, but once Android phablets begain selling in serious numbers, Apple capitulated and started producing phablets.

Apple was against styli, but once devices like the Surface Pro offered them with desktop-strength apps, Apple produced the Pencil.

If iPad Pro sales were to drop because dual systems from their competition are selling, Apple will reconsider.

Agreed. Pretty simple business method actually.

 

[Alaxlmartin]

Microsoft built exactly that with Windows 8. It was a massive failure.

Even today Windows 10 is merely passable as a tablet operating system. People buy Windows laptops that can do a few tablet-like things. Virtually nobody buys a Windows 10 device as a pure tablet.

Apple’s direction is crystal clear here. MacOS is not coming to the iPad.

I had a windows 8 Tablet 2 in one. It was slow and clunky. The new IPad Pro 1st gen came out a few months later. Guess what became my #1 device and eventually only device?