When will Apple directly compete with Surface Pro?

[Raist3001]

and Apple is all about uncompromised experience.

You don't consider donglegate a compromised experience?

I find it ludicrous that apple has said that a touchscreen Mac would not work because wrists would become fatigued by reaching up to Touch the screen. Yet with Apples smart Keyboard, they have essentially given us an iPad which can be used in a laptop orientation with a touch screen where we need to reach up and touch the screen. Apple is positioning the iPad Pro as a laptop replacement, with no mouse support or trackpad support.
In my opinion, an iPad running MacOS would chip away at sales of their Mac computers. In the very least, Apple should be leading the way with Pro apps to show why the iPad in its current form can be a laptop replacement.

 

[JP913]

In the very least, Apple should be leading the way with Pro apps to show why the iPad in its current form can be a laptop replacement.

Apple gave the developers the hardware necessary for pro-level work...isn't it up the App creators to produce pro level software?

Once Adobe releases Photoshop for the iPad next year, that's a huge step forward for creative professionals to leave the Mac behind.

 

[DNichter]

You don't consider donglegate a compromised experience?

I find it ludicrous that apple has said that a touchscreen Mac would not work because wrists would become fatigued by reaching up to Touch the screen. Yet with Apples smart Keyboard, they have essentially given us an iPad which can be used in a laptop orientation with a touch screen where we need to reach up and touch the screen. Apple is positioning the iPad Pro as a laptop replacement, with no mouse support or trackpad support.
In my opinion, an iPad running MacOS would chip away at sales of their Mac computers. In the very least, Apple should be leading the way with Pro apps to show why the iPad in its current form can be a laptop replacement.

I do find it a bit disingenuous on Apple's part, but I don't think by them offering a keyboard for extensive typing is Apple saying that the iPad should be used this way consistently. I use an iPad Pro for work and just use the magic keyboard on my desk while handling emails or writing up reviews or proposals, but I actually don't reach up to the screen much at all in this situation, I just use keyboard shortcuts. I think a macOS tablet would just be way too many compromises and end up kind of crappy, like the Surface. I think Apple will just keep adding features to iOS on the iPad.

 

[tromboneaholic]

Apple should be leading the way with Pro apps to show why the iPad in its current form can be a laptop replacement.

I think that's exactly why they had Adobe demo the full version of Photoshop at the keynote.

It's an example of a pro app that can not just be used on an iPad as a laptop replacement, but it can be a better experience on iPad than on laptop.

A lot of people are asking for a direct 1:1 laptop replacement, and ignoring iPad's potential to offer better experiences than a laptop.

 

[JP913]

I think a macOS tablet would just be way too many compromises and end up kind of crappy, like the Surface. I think Apple will just keep adding features to iOS on the iPad.

Agreed.

There's just a couple things Apple should add to the iPP (external harddrive support, native second screen use with a Mac) and for me, that would be all I need.

Until then, there's workarounds for both of those that I can use for now.

I think that's exactly why they had Adobe demo the full version of Photoshop at the keynote.

It's an example of a pro app that can not just be used on an iPad as a laptop replacement, but it can be a better experience on iPad than on laptop.

A lot of people are asking for a direct 1:1 laptop replacement, and ignoring iPad's potential to offer better experiences than a laptop.

Yeah, exactly. I don't want a touchscreen MacOS, I want an elevated iOS experience, which the Pencil gives, which better apps give, which the new iPP gives.

I think it's pretty clear that the iPP is aimed at creative professionals, but it offers a lot to people who DO want to replace their laptop. Most people e-mail, chat, and surf the web on their laptops, so what more do those individuals need from the iPad / iOS?

 

[Raist3001]

Apple gave the developers the hardware necessary for pro-level work...isn't it up the App creators to produce pro level software?

Once Adobe releases Photoshop for the iPad next year, that's a huge step forward for creative professionals to leave the Mac behind.

Sure it's up to App developers to create new Pro Apps, but the the App developers are not the ones promoting the iPad as a laptop replacement. That charge should have been lead by Apple to show what can be done.

 

[JP913]

Sure it's up to App developers to create new Pro Apps, but the the App developers are not the ones promoting the iPad as a laptop replacement. That charge should have been lead by Apple to show what can be done.

Well, again, that's why Adobe was there. Apple said "Hey, this thing can replace a laptop. Watch this..." and then Adobe showed off "real" Photoshop, which, up until VERY recently, was only a pipe dream on the iPad.

I honestly don't think the iPad can replace a full computer in every instance. Adobe Illustrator, for example, seems like it wouldn't work on the iPad...but then again, I also think that it's up to Adobe to figure out how to MAKE it work for the iPad and the Pencil and not give us a straight up port of the program, but a better experience, which is what Photoshop seems to be.

Apple needs to create the hardware to drive these innovations in the developer community. I think they've done pretty good so far. App creators have the power (literally, with all the under-the-hood enhancements) to make these pro-level apps a reality.

People want them, and I believe we'll look back in 6 months or 1 year and be very pleasantly surprised.

 

[DNichter]

Sure it's up to App developers to create new Pro Apps, but the the App developers are not the ones promoting the iPad as a laptop replacement. That charge should have been lead by Apple to show what can be done.

Agree here also. Apple should really be leading the charge when it comes to Pro apps. I expect this to be a big focus for WWDC 19.
[doublepost=1542638940][/doublepost]I think Apple was caught in a compromising situation with this years iPad Pro, which is making this discussion pretty prevalent today. The hardware is the best out there, clearly, but it was made for iOS 13. Once all of the iPad specific features were pushed from 12 to 13 due to bad performance issues with iOS 11, they knew they were releasing a product with software that was a year behind. That doesn't make the new Pro's a bad product, it's still the best there is, but it will show it's true colors when iOS 13 is released.

 

[Raist3001]

Well, again, that's why Adobe was there. Apple said "Hey, this thing can replace a laptop. Watch this..." and then Adobe showed off "real" Photoshop, which, up until VERY recently, was only a pipe dream on the iPad.

I think you are missing my point. Just to be clear, I am not bashing Apple. Adobe's offering is great, but it was left to a developer to create. Apple wants the iPad Pro to be taken seriously as a laptop replacement, they should be leading the way in this belief. Not waiting on developers to create Pro Apps. We have had an iPad Pro now for over 3 years. Waiting on developers seems to be futile.

 

[JP913]

I think you are missing my point. Just to be clear, I am not bashing Apple. Adobe's offering is great, but it was left to a developer to create. Apple wants the iPad Pro to be taken seriously as a laptop replacement, they should be leading the way in this belief. Not waiting on developers to create Pro Apps. We have had an iPad Pro now for over 3 years. Waiting on developers seems to be futile.

I guess I'm just confused by what you want Apple to do... you want them to bypass app developers and just make the software themselves?

In the 3 years since the iPad Pro's have been released, there's been plenty of new, pro-level apps that have come out...ones that don't have desktop origins. I guess it's all in the eye of the beholder, but in regards to what I need to do with the iPad (art & illustration), there's plenty of pro options available right now (and Adobe will just put the icing on the cake)

Anyway, WWDC 19, iOS 13, I'm sure we're bound to see a huge leap in regards to what the iPad Pro can do, and what it can replace.

 

[Raist3001]

I guess I'm just confused by what you want Apple to do... you want them to bypass app developers and just make the software themselves?

How about a full featured Pro APP of Final Cut Pro? After all, if Adobe can do it, Apple can not?

 

[DNichter]

I guess I'm just confused by what you want Apple to do... you want them to bypass app developers and just make the software themselves?

In the 3 years since the iPad Pro's have been released, there's been plenty of new, pro-level apps that have come out...ones that don't have desktop origins. I guess it's all in the eye of the beholder, but in regards to what I need to do with the iPad (art & illustration), there's plenty of pro options available right now (and Adobe will just put the icing on the cake)

Anyway, WWDC 19, iOS 13, I'm sure we're bound to see a huge leap in regards to what the iPad Pro can do, and what it can replace.

I think he/she is saying that Apple's 1st party apps (Xcode, Final Cut, Logic, Aperture) should be on iOS, helping drive that Pro focus from 3rd part developers.

 

[everythingapplerainbow]

Even if they have their own goals and do not want to make a touch screen laptop, isn't money the bigger motivation. They know there is demand for it. A powerful tablet running macOS, with a keyboard attachment and mouse/pointer support. They have to know it would sell like crazy. I would buy it. I just don't understand why they can't get their heads out of the sand and give the customers what they want.

Nope
They’ve been fighting hard to keep iOS a clean operating system and much better security/ privacy models. Going back to MacOS is never a good direction for iPad

 

[tromboneaholic]

How about a full featured Pro APP of Final Cut Pro? After all, if Adobe can do it, Apple can not?

I am very interested to see where video editing progresses to on the iPad. However, for it to replace a desktop or laptop, the UI and input devices will need to be rethought. It's not just a matter of porting the apps from macOS to iOS. They'll need to rethink the workflow from the ground up.

 

[Raist3001]

I am very interested to see where video editing progresses to on the iPad. However, for it to replace a desktop or laptop, the UI and input devices will need to be rethought. It's not just a matter of porting the apps from macOS to iOS. They'll need to rethink the workflow from the ground up.

I totally agree. Other than a fast processor, higher RAM, and large internal storage (and high price), what makes the iPad a Pro level machine?

 

[skaertus]

I think you are missing my point. Just to be clear, I am not bashing Apple. Adobe's offering is great, but it was left to a developer to create. Apple wants the iPad Pro to be taken seriously as a laptop replacement, they should be leading the way in this belief. Not waiting on developers to create Pro Apps. We have had an iPad Pro now for over 3 years. Waiting on developers seems to be futile.

That makes some sense. In several cases, the developer of the platform is the one the publishes software to push it. Microsoft has Windows, and it also develops Office, which is the most used and fully-featured productivity software out there, and it helps sell the whole platform. Nintendo has its video game consoles, and it always launches at least one Mario game to lead the way and make the platform popular. Apple did this once: iLife and iWork were popular and exclusive applications for the then called OS X. But now Apple seems to rely on 3rd party developers to do the heavy lifting in terms of software.

 

[DNichter]

I totally agree. Other than a fast processor, higher RAM, and large internal storage (and high price), what makes the iPad a Pro level machine?

You could say the same thing about a MacBook though, which people rarely do. It's just an upgraded feature set (the Pro moniker).

 

[skaertus]

I am very interested to see where video editing progresses to on the iPad. However, for it to replace a desktop or laptop, the UI and input devices will need to be rethought. It's not just a matter of porting the apps from macOS to iOS. They'll need to rethink the workflow from the ground up.

You are right. But I guess it is difficult to design complex applications for the iPad. I am not surr if this is because, due to the simplicity of iOS, and of the input methods (touch), the iPad is naturally more limited than a Mac. Or if we are all so used to mouses and trackpads that we cannot conceive a workflow using different methods of input.

 

[Raist3001]

That makes some sense. In several cases, the developer of the platform is the one the publishes software to push it. Microsoft has Windows, and it also develops Office, which is the most used and fully-featured productivity software out there, and it helps sell the whole platform. Nintendo has its video game consoles, and it always launches at least one Mario game to lead the way and make the platform popular. Apple did this once: iLife and iWork were popular and exclusive applications for the then called OS X. But now Apple seems to rely on 3rd party developers to do the heavy lifting in terms of software.

Exactly. I wish apple would revisit their software development in order to produce Pro level apps for their Pro level iPad. Otherwise MKBHD said it correctly. Best iPad ever, but still an iPad.

 

[tromboneaholic]

I totally agree. Other than a fast processor, higher RAM, and large internal storage (and high price), what makes the iPad a Pro level machine?

I think "Pro" has many different interpretations. My wife is a "professional" who uses the base 2018 iPad to take and organize client notes. For her, it's quicker and easier to tap on the iPad screen with the Pencil and have the Notes app pop up from the lock screen than it is for her to open her laptop, login, launch an app, and create a new document. Plus, it's less intrusive to sit across from a client while she's holding an iPad and jotting a few notes than it would be for her to have a laptop on her lap and typing. The laptop creates more of a separation between her and her clients.

So the iPad form factor alone can be an advantage to professionals in certain situations that don't require a huge amount of processing power.

On the other hand, I bought a Mac in 1996 to work on Photoshop for my job. Since I still work in Photoshop to create layered PSD files to animate in After Effects, I am looking forward to taking advantage of the iPad Pro running Photoshop. Being able to hold the iPad in my hand and directly edit images with the Pencil on screen in the field is definitely a better experience than using a laptop, but requires the performance of the higher level machines.

I think the main thing is there are already many instances where the software for iPad makes it better than a laptop, and it will be interesting to see more apps designed with the idea of being better, not just a replacement.

 

[mmomega]

I want an OS X tablet like the Suface Pro that can be a tablet or a docked laptop (with keyboard and trackpad). Why does Apple ignore this segment?

I don't believe this will EVER be a thing.


For me, that is a good thing. I own 4 Surfaces at work and for that very particular situation they work ok. For my personal use, I would never own anything like that.

 

[tromboneaholic]

You are right. But I guess it is difficult to design complex applications for the iPad. I am not surr if this is because, due to the simplicity of iOS, and of the input methods (touch), the iPad is naturally more limited than a Mac. Or if we are all so used to mouses and trackpads that we cannot conceive a workflow using different methods of input.

I agree. I feel like I get caught up by what I'm used to doing with a computer and how I've done it for years, that I have trouble getting past my own expectations when I try to think of what my workflow should look like on an iPad.

 

[Dave-Z]

the iPad is naturally more limited than a Mac

Maybe. There are definitely times editing text that I wish I had a trackpad to move the insertion point and select text. However, I think the bigger issue is that users have decades of muscle memory from using computers a certain way and developers have decades of design philosophy; the iPad challenges that.
[doublepost=1542643743][/doublepost]

For me, that is a good thing. I own 4 Surfaces at work and for that very particular situation they work ok. For my personal use, I would never own anything like that.

Why? (Serious question.)

 

[richpjr]

Nope
They’ve been fighting hard to keep iOS a clean operating system and much better security/ privacy models. Going back to MacOS is never a good direction for iPad

I am guessing that iOS is the long term future OS for Apple, not MacOS. As iOS continues to evolve and get more features, more and more people will be able to use it as their only computer and Macs will become increasingly niche products used for specialty cases.

 

[Raist3001]

I am guessing that iOS is the long term future OS for Apple, not MacOS. As iOS continues to evolve and get more features, more and more people will be able to use it as their only computer and Macs will become increasingly niche products used for specialty cases.

Very interesting thought.