When will Apple directly compete with Surface Pro?

[tromboneaholic]

I am guessing that iOS is the long term future OS for Apple, not MacOS. As iOS continues to evolve and get more features, more and more people will be able to use it as their only computer and Macs will become increasingly niche products used for specialty cases.

"When we were an agrarian nation, all cars were trucks, because that's what you needed on the farm. But as vehicles started to be used in the urban centers, cars got more popular … PCs are going to be like trucks. They're still going to be around, they're still going to have a lot of value, but they're going to be used by one out of X people."

-Steve Jobs, 2010​

 

[flur]

[QUOTE="zhenya, post: 26821428, member: 45497”]Even today Windows 10 is merely passable as a tablet operating system. People buy Windows laptops that can do a few tablet-like things. Virtually nobody buys a Windows 10 device as a pure tablet.[/QUOTE]
This ^^

The 12” MacBook is the direct competition for the Surface Pro. The only real advantage the Surface has over it is the ability to use the Microsoft pen. Beyond that, the Surface is a laptop. The tablet experience stinks on it.

There’s currently no device that functions perfectly as both a tablet and a laptop. I’ve used both a Surface Pro and an iPad for several years now, and my personal experience is that the iPad comes a lot closer to doing both than the Surface does.

 

[sracer]

This ^^

The 12” MacBook is the direct competition for the Surface Pro. The only real advantage the Surface has over it is the ability to use the Microsoft pen. Beyond that, the Surface is a laptop. The tablet experience stinks on it.

There’s currently no device that functions perfectly as both a tablet and a laptop. I’ve used both a Surface Pro and an iPad for several years now, and my personal experience is that the iPad comes a lot closer to doing both than the Surface does.

I'm having a difficult time seeing how 12" Macbook competes with the Surface Pro... against the Surface Laptop, yes, but not the Pro. The 12" Macbook is a laptop with no touchscreen, no pen support, and no ability to be used as a tablet.

As for devices that function perfectly as both a tablet and laptop, that is highly subjective and greatly depend upon an individual's use cases. For some (not me), the Surface Pro is that device. For others the Pixelbook or more accurately, the Pixel Slate is that device. (currently this is where I'm at)

As much as one might want to try to fit one of Apple's existing products into that slot, Apple doesn't currently have one. That doesn't mean that the current iPads can't be successfully used by people who want to use it as both tablet and laptop... but there are too many limitations with the hardware to make it a reasonable comparison.

Should Apple include support for mouse/trackpads, universally accessible file system, true extended display support, and expanded support for USB peripherals, they'd have a killer alternative... one that I'd happily fork over $1500 for (and I'm far from alone on that)

 

[Newtons Apple]

I do not think Apple has any desire to compete with the Surface.

 

[Raist3001]

I do not think Apple has any desire to compete with the Surface.

I agree. Hard to believe apple could not do an iPad/MacOS hybrid properly if they so chose. Such a device is not part of their vision.

 

[AlexJoda]

I'm having a difficult time seeing how 12" Macbook competes with the Surface Pro... against the Surface Laptop, yes, but not the Pro. The 12" Macbook is a laptop with no touchscreen, no pen support, and no ability to be used as a tablet.

As for devices that function perfectly as both a tablet and laptop, that is highly subjective and greatly depend upon an individual's use cases. For some (not me), the Surface Pro is that device. For others the Pixelbook or more accurately, the Pixel Slate is that device. (currently this is where I'm at)

As much as one might want to try to fit one of Apple's existing products into that slot, Apple doesn't currently have one. That doesn't mean that the current iPads can't be successfully used by people who want to use it as both tablet and laptop... but there are too many limitations with the hardware to make it a reasonable comparison.

Should Apple include support for mouse/trackpads, universally accessible file system, true extended display support, and expanded support for USB peripherals, they'd have a killer alternative... one that I'd happily fork over $1500 for (and I'm far from alone on that)

What do you think of the idea that the big trackpad on the MacBooks could be something similar to a touch based interface on the iPads? With that in mind the MacBooks might compete "from the other side" with the tablets. They also support gestures and other features of the iPad UI. Some people even suggest that Apple should add pencil support to the trackpad....

 

[sracer]

What do you think of the idea that the big trackpad on the MacBooks could be something similar to a touch based interface on the iPads? With that in mind the MacBooks might compete "from the other side" with the tablets. They also support gestures and other features of the iPad UI. Some people even suggest that Apple should add pencil support to the trackpad....

That's an interesting angle, but it isn't quite the same as the direct interaction of touching the screen...and it isn't a new angle. I'm pretty sure that I'm not alone in using the app Inklet 8 years ago to use the Macbook Pro trackpad as a digitizer. For its time, it was fantastic. In the age of tablets, using an offscreen digitizer is a step backward.

My Lenovo Yoga Book has its Halo keyboard also double as a Wacom tablet. Great implementation, but not as good of an experience as writing directly on the screen. The YB supports using the stylus also directly on the screen but without pressure sensitivity or palm rejection. 10 years ago, this would've been terrific. But now with the iPad and Pencil, it feels like a step backward and doing that on a laptop when there are laptops that have touchscreens and direct screen pen support will feel that way too.

 

[VineRider]

I own both a Surface Pro 5 and an iPad Pro. I use them for different things. Both devices are good at email, web browsing etc., but the iPad is better at handling PDF's for signing documents with the pen. It is also better as a media consumption device. Some apps I use for network management (UniFi) are more robust on the iPad as well as banking, credit card, Apple Pay etc.

The Surface Pro is better as a business machine. Doing heavy Excel or PowerPoint requires a trackpad or a mouse in my opinion. Office 365 apps are also more robust and powerful on the Windows platform. Being able to manage files both locally and in the cloud is much more seamless on the Surface in my opinion. Windows having a full fledged file system makes managing files much easier.

In my opinion, both are good devices, but currently serve different purposes. For me, there is no way an iPad could replace my Surface. It has a long way to go before it's capable of doing that.

 

[AlexJoda]

I own both a Surface Pro 5 and an iPad Pro. I use them for different things. Both devices are good at email, web browsing etc., but the iPad is better at handling PDF's for signing documents with the pen. It is also better as a media consumption device. Some apps I use for network management (UniFi) are more robust on the iPad as well as banking, credit card, Apple Pay etc.

The Surface Pro is better as a business machine. Doing heavy Excel or PowerPoint requires a trackpad or a mouse in my opinion. Office 365 apps are also more robust and powerful on the Windows platform. Being able to manage files both locally and in the cloud is much more seamless on the Surface in my opinion. Windows having a full fledged file system makes managing files much easier.

In my opinion, both are good devices, but currently serve different purposes. For me, there is no way an iPad could replace my Surface. It has a long way to go before it's capable of doing that.

If you have to choose only one which device would stay with you?

 

[VineRider]

If you have to choose only one which device would stay with you?

Due to work, I'd keep the Surface. My iPhone could take the place of the iPad

 

[treyhunnid]

iOS wont compete with windows. only macOS will do that, when macOS hits an iPad then we can talk.

 

[gdeputy]

Honestly, the biggest issue for me is VPN for work. iPad sucks at it, and it means the products I need won't really work. Still considering as a personal device, but, a bit frustrated by that.

 

[aevan]

I think that most of the complaints for the iPad are at the functional/feature level rather than at the fundamental OS level. So no, and macOS iPad is not the solution. Apple should add more tablet features to iOS instead. There is nothing technical preventing Apple from adding external storage support to iOS.

Agree with this. iOS needs to become more versatile and powerful even at the cost of elegance. But a mash-up of macOS and iOS is not what people should want.

 

[richpjr]

Honestly, the biggest issue for me is VPN for work. iPad sucks at it, and it means the products I need won't really work. Still considering as a personal device, but, a bit frustrated by that.

I was in good shape with the built in support for Cisco, but my company recently upgraded our IT infrastructure to new hardware and I lost my VPN connectivity. That really sucks as I need to access servers inside of our intranet all the time so I have to fire up my MBP to do it.

 

[JP913]

iOS wont compete with windows. only macOS will do that, when macOS hits an iPad then we can talk.

Seriously, who wants MacOS on the iPad?

Is it about familiarity, or is it that some users are unwilling to change their workflows to adapt to iOS?

A full OS on a tablet sucks. I had a Wacom MobileStudio, and I got rid of that thing and moved to the iPad BECAUSE of how horrible Windows (or any full desktop class OS) is on a tablet.

I understand wanting some of the functionality of a full OS (file system, desktop class apps), but I'd rather mold myself to iOS than get frustrated with a bad MacOS experience on the iPad.

 

[treyhunnid]

Seriously, who wants MacOS on the iPad?

Is it about familiarity, or is it that some users are unwilling to change their workflows to adapt to iOS?

A full OS on a tablet sucks. I had a Wacom MobileStudio, and I got rid of that thing and moved to the iPad BECAUSE of how horrible Windows (or any full desktop class OS) is on a tablet.

I understand wanting some of the functionality of a full OS (file system, desktop class apps), but I'd rather mold myself to iOS than get frustrated with a bad MacOS experience on the iPad.

hey man, I agree. I'm not looking for a tablet to replace my MacBook. part of the reason iOS is so fast and reliable is because its locked down. it cant open up too much with running the risk of the standard OS pitfalls of unix/linux/etc

 

[flur]

Seriously, who wants MacOS on the iPad?

Is it about familiarity, or is it that some users are unwilling to change their workflows to adapt to iOS?

A full OS on a tablet sucks. I had a Wacom MobileStudio, and I got rid of that thing and moved to the iPad BECAUSE of how horrible Windows (or any full desktop class OS) is on a tablet.

I understand wanting some of the functionality of a full OS (file system, desktop class apps), but I'd rather mold myself to iOS than get frustrated with a bad MacOS experience on the iPad.

While I also would prefer to see iOS develop rather than port MacOS to the iPad, I do think MacOS would be a much better experience on a tablet than Windows is. MacOS already uses a lot of gestures, and many of them are the same as (or similar to) what’s being used in iOS.

 

[Alaxlmartin]

Due to work, I'd keep the Surface. My iPhone could take the place of the iPad

Surface No

 

[VineRider]

While I also would prefer to see iOS develop rather than port MacOS to the iPad, I do think MacOS would be a much better experience on a tablet than Windows is. MacOS already uses a lot of gestures, and many of them are the same as (or similar to) what’s being used in iOS.

I'm not a Mac person but I didn't think a Mac had a touch screen. What gestures are similar?

 

[flur]

I'm not a Mac person but I didn't think a Mac had a touch screen. What gestures are similar?

You can use a lot of gestures with the track pad - swipe to the side to move between desktops (PCs don’t have different desktops, but it’s similar to the PC app switcher), different swipes to see all apps, bring up the sidebar, see open windows, etc.

 

[VineRider]

You can use a lot of gestures with the track pad - swipe to the side to move between desktops (PCs don’t have different desktops, but it’s similar to the PC app switcher), different swipes to see all apps, bring up the sidebar, see open windows, etc.

Makes sense. Thanks for the explanation

 

[Mac 128]

Maybe. There are definitely times editing text that I wish I had a trackpad to move the insertion point and select text.

The iPad already has a built-in virtual trackpad, which Apple touts on its website, specifically to do that. What’s bizarre is that in the very same marketing pitch, they promote the external keyboard, which removes that very ability to use the virtual trackpad for text editing, and does not provide a similar physical option.

It’s completely inconsistent.

 

[skaertus]

The iPad already has a built-in virtual trackpad, which Apple touts on its website, specifically to do that. What’s bizarre is that in the very same marketing pitch, they promote the external keyboard, which removes that very ability to use the virtual trackpad for text editing, and does not provide a similar physical option.

It’s completely inconsistent.

Kind of. I think the purpose or the virtual trackpad is to help position the cursor in texts. The keyboard has the arrow keys to do that, making the virtual trackpad not necessary for this.

Said that, I would really like to see a real trackpad in iOS.

 

[richinaus]

Apple has never been in the business of just giving people what they want.

Can you explain why the iPad sells more than any laptop if it is not giving what people want?

If people didn't want it they wouldn't buy it.

You may want an iPad with full OS on it, I don't and love the iPad for what it is. It is a computer replacement to those with limited needs, but is also a great companion device for those with a laptop whose needs are more in depth.

It is not the compromised product a surface is. It is a tablet primarily, and as far as I can see, barely has any competition.

 

[Mac 128]

Kind of. I think the purpose or the virtual trackpad is to help position the cursor in texts. The keyboard has the arrow keys to do that, making the virtual trackpad not necessary for this.

Said that, I would really like to see a real trackpad in iOS.

True, but again completely inconsistent. I’d love some arrow keys to help navigate on the virtual keyboard, but there aren’t any. So why are they on the physical keyboard? Arrows are good for immediate up or down/side to side movements, but terrible for quick access. The iPad is all about immediate access to a location, and that’s what you get with the virtual trackpad, moving your finger in any direction, diagonal or otherwise and the cursor follows. And how is text selected on the physical keyboard? It’s a totally different method than on the virtual keyboard I’m guessing, rather than just support a real trackpad that replaces the virtual one, in order to keep the experience consistent between onscreen text editing and with the external keyboard.