Other Where is the small petite sized phone?

[DNichter]

I don’t think Apple has completely abandoned the 4.7” form factor quite yet. Once the 8 gets too old I’m fairly certain they’ll do some sort of spec update much like they did with the SE for the 4” form factor.
Those who need anything smaller, however... Apple has completely abandoned. And no, a smartwatch doesn’t replace a smartphone.
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That’s not necessarily the whole truth. Even if there is a decent market, it’s possible Apple would forgo the SE if it works against their larger strategy.

Sure, makes sense. Either way, a business decision.

 

[subjonas]

If pocket size is the dominant factor in choosing a phone and 1.69 ounces makes that much difference, it sounds like there's a better fit (literally) by going with another manufacturer's product that prioritizes dimensions rather than functionality.

I don’t know what value this type of response contributes. I think that going with another manufacturer is a choice that everyone is well aware of. This response can be used literally any time someone complains about an Apple decision (which is 90% of this forum site), and unfortunately it many times is.

And dimensions is functionality.

 

[DNichter]

Looks like there is hope for smaller phones. Makes sense to use 7 parts, but I wonder what it would look like. Just an SE with a glass back?

 

[MyMacintosh]

I find it interesting the that posts like these have the same theme. Small cutesy woman = must have tiny phone. I am super petite myself and have child sized hands. I like big phones and am going to max from 8+. Same with my friends. I don't need my cell phone in my boobs.

Me and alot of other women I see tend to have the Plus phones so idk what OP is talking about lol

 

[GGJstudios]

I don’t know what value this type of response contributes. I think that going with another manufacturer is a choice that everyone is well aware of. This response can be used literally any time someone complains about an Apple decision (which is 90% of this forum site), and unfortunately it many times is.

There's nothing wrong with stating the obvious fact that if Apple doesn't manufacture a device that meets the specific needs, requirements and whims of any particular consumer, that the alternative is to buy another manufacturer's product. So many are quick to complain about anything that Apple manufactures that it bears repeating that they don't have to buy any particular product. It's not like they're going to change what Apple produces by complaining in a forum that Apple doesn't even watch.

And dimensions is functionality.

Dimensions are not functionality. What a phone does is functionality. That functionality can come in packages of different sizes. A larger screen may be a desired feature, but a larger screen doesn't have functionality that is different than a smaller screen.

 

[artfossil]

Where do you women here buy jeans that can fit an iPhone Plus much less an XS or XR? And do you also have an Apple Watch so you don't have to actually pull out your giant phone all the time

I don’t wear jeans.
I can stow my 8+ in other locations.
Yes, I have a Watch so I don’t have to have my phone handy.
My small hands can navigate an 8+ easily.
I’d never go back to a small phone as that would mean a small screen.

 

[wallysb01]

With all due respect, you're going off personal opinion by saying there is a market for it. I am trusting Apple here, as I am sure they have done plenty of research and understand better than anyone. If there was a market, they would make a phone that size.

Everyone complaining here are the market. Apple has clearly decided to not offer an up-to-date sub-5 inch phone, but that doesn't mean there isn't a market for it. It might just be a small one that Apple, with its drive for huge margins on limited numbers of options, just doesn't want to go after. In fact, they probably don't want to offer such a phone for fear of eating into higher margined phones.

I've been on the iPhone 5c since it was brand new. I've replaced the screen, the battery and now finally the home button is busted with no easy repair. I'm sad to see this size go. I'd happily pay maybe 600 bucks or so for an iPhone Xr mini or some such thing. But I'm not jumping up to a 6.1 inch phablet, and the $1000 price tag on the still kinda large size Xs is hard to swallow. My wife has the 7 and that works out fine for me, but is probably the largest size I'd go to. The issue with that is going down to the 8 is a) still not cheap and b) behind on the tech. Somehow I have to do something though, I've been living with this busted home button for around a month waiting for this event. I read the rumors, I new a size and price I was really wanting was unlikely, but here we are. Maybe I'll hit up a used iPhone 7 and cross my fingers a more modest sized edge-to-edge phone (an SE 2?) is in Apple's near future.

 

[epigenome]

The thing is: Small cutesy woman = small cutesy pockets...

I'm not the smallest thing on the planet... but I'm 5'2" and weigh around 110 lbs... I can fit my 7+ in my pocket well enough to walk around with it securely (you can actually fit it in kind of sideways/diagonally in jeans!). Clearly I take it out when sitting down... but even in the odd clothing item with ample pockets I prefer taking my phone out when sitting - it's uncomfortable leaving it in! Beyond that - similar to many women in the world... I carry a purse! With a pocket for storing my big honkin' phone.

I'm all down for people having different preferences... but a small phone is, ultimately, a preference for most people... not a necessity for us cute little things. I know plenty of men and women who prefer a small phone for a variety of reasons that don't just revolve around being cute, little and a woman.

 

[blco02]

All I can think of is the will Ferrell skit with the tiny phone...

 

[GGJstudios]

Everyone complaining here are the market.

Correction: Everyone complaining here represents a microscopic sliver of the market. Even the entire membership of MacRumors is a microscopic sliver of the market. Apple obviously knows the market better than anyone in this forum, as proven by their success. Is there a market for smaller phones? Sure! But how big is that market compared with the segment demanding larger phones? Obviously, not big at all, or Apple and many others would be making products to appeal to that segment.

 

[DNichter]

Everyone complaining here are the market. Apple has clearly decided to not offer an up-to-date sub-5 inch phone, but that doesn't mean there isn't a market for it. It might just be a small one that Apple, with its drive for huge margins on limited numbers of options, just doesn't want to go after. In fact, they probably don't want to offer such a phone for fear of eating into higher margined phones.

I've been on the iPhone 5c since it was brand new. I've replaced the screen, the battery and now finally the home button is busted with no easy repair. I'm sad to see this size go. I'd happily pay maybe 600 bucks or so for an iPhone Xr mini or some such thing. But I'm not jumping up to a 6.1 inch phablet, and the $1000 price tag on the still kinda large size Xs is hard to swallow. My wife has the 7 and that works out fine for me, but is probably the largest size I'd go to. The issue with that is going down to the 8 is a) still not cheap and b) behind on the tech. Somehow I have to do something though, I've been living with this busted home button for around a month waiting for this event. I read the rumors, I new a size and price I was really wanting was unlikely, but here we are. Maybe I'll hit up a used iPhone 7 and cross my fingers a more modest sized edge-to-edge phone (an SE 2?) is in Apple's near future.

We are talking about Apple’s decision to not release a 4 inch phone. There isn’t market for Apple, that’s all I’m saying. I know people here (a very small minority of phone users) want one, that doesn’t mean everyone purchasing an iPhone does. For the sake of everyone who wants one, I hope you get it though.

 

[wallysb01]

Correction: Everyone complaining here represents a microscopic sliver of the market. Even the entire membership of MacRumors is a microscopic sliver of the market. Apple obviously knows the market better than anyone in this forum, as proven by their success. Is there a market for smaller phones? Sure! But how big is that market compared with the segment demanding larger phones? Obviously, not big at all, or Apple and many others would be making products to appeal to that segment.

Sure, those complaining here are part of the market. But they are also the market. Each individual is a market in and to themselves even. Far too much narrow thinking surrounding the concept of a market here.

Next, Apple's success proves nothing. They've royally ****ed up before, even relatively recently. The fact that they have been successful, doesn't mean every choice they make is infallible.

We are talking about Apple’s decision to not release a 4 inch phone. There isn’t market for Apple, that’s all I’m saying. I know people here (a very small minority of phone users) want one, that doesn’t mean everyone purchasing an iPhone does. For the sake of everyone who wants one, I hope you get it though.

The first bold statement is a tautology, the second is an absurd hyperbole. I'm glad you have some sympathy, I guess...

 

[DNichter]

Sure, those complaining here are part of the market. But they are also the market. Each individual is a market in and to themselves even. Far too much narrow thinking surrounding the concept of a market here.

Next, Apple's success proves nothing. They've royally ****ed up before, even relatively recently. The fact that they have been successful, doesn't mean every choice they make is infallible.



The first bold statement is a tautology, the second is an absurd hyperbole. I'm glad you have some sympathy, I guess...

I’m lost. So if I’m exaggerating, you think every iPhone buyer really wants a small phone?

 

[pazgb]

Anything wider than 70 mm is too much. I really wish they would advertise one hand use vs the size of the screen.

I very distinctly remember Steve saying one hand use was priority but obviously that has changed.

Very disappointed on the Xr size.

I will not buy a phone that is over 70 mm wide.

FYI the 7 is around 67-68mm

 

[dafodeu]

I wish they kept the form factor of the 8 but did edge to edge LCD instead of going bigger with the Xr. Same form factor of 8 in the X design probably would have been around a 5.3 inch screen which would have been perfect.

 

[ftaok]

I'd happily pay maybe 600 bucks or so for an iPhone Xr mini or some such thing. .

this is the problem right here. You're looking for a flagship level phone at a low (for Apple) price. Maybe if there were more people willing to pay $750 for a 4.5" Xr, maybe Apple would make one. But too many equate size with value.

A small iPhone with the latest guts won't make Apple the kind of margin it wants.
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I wish they kept the form factor of the 8 but did edge to edge LCD instead of going bigger with the Xr. Same form factor of 8 in the X design probably would have been around a 5.3 inch screen which would have been perfect.

That's basically an Xs with an LCD and a single camera. If they made this, it would likely (IMO) canibalize sales of the Xs which likely makes better margins.

 

[dafodeu]

That's basically an Xs with an LCD and a single camera. If they made this, it would likely (IMO) canibalize sales of the Xs which likely makes better margins.

I agree with you but it's really lame that if you want a smaller form factor with the new X design you have to pay $1149 cause 64gb isn't enough. Xr 128gb (sweet spot storage) $799 is a much better value but not at that size.

 

[subjonas]

There's nothing wrong with stating the obvious fact that if Apple doesn't manufacture a device that meets the specific needs, requirements and whims of any particular consumer, that the alternative is to buy another manufacturer's product.

There’s nothing wrong with it in the sense that sure, everyone is free to do it, just like everyone is free to complain. I’m just saying that stating the obvious adds no value to the conversation, it brings about no enlightenment because everyone already knows it. That’s the characteristic of obvious.

So many are quick to complain about anything that Apple manufactures that it bears repeating that they don't have to buy any particular product.

Again, people know this, so I don’t think it bears repeating. Nevertheless it does get repeated by many here. It gets repeated and repeated and repeated and repeated, with absolutely no effect—because it’s obvious. People just complain and always will. And it’s fine in the right scenarios. This forum is one of those scenarios.

It's not like they're going to change what Apple produces by complaining in a forum that Apple doesn't even watch.

True. But let me guess—you only use these arguments against complaints you don’t agree with?
If I were to search your post history, would I find no complaints against Apple?

Dimensions are not functionality. What a phone does is functionality. That functionality can come in packages of different sizes. A larger screen may be a desired feature, but a larger screen doesn't have functionality that is different than a smaller screen.

Large screens can do more functions, like split screen. Point is, the size of a device is one of the determining factors as to how it can be used. How it can be used = functionality. It’s true with cars, tools, laptops, iPads, phones, and many other things.

Styling, color—those are aesthetic and not functional (though perhaps in some cases they could be functional too).

 

[ftaok]

I agree with you but it's really lame that if you want a smaller form factor with the new X design you have to pay $1149 cause 64gb isn't enough. Xr 128gb (sweet spot storage) $799 is a much better value but not at that size.

I agree but Apple are the masters at pricing and tiering to guide buyers to the highest margin models. They sure have a knack.

You can only vote with your wallet, but it's basically the "old man yelling at the sea" scenario. Just ride with it and enjoy whatever device you end up getting. Me personally, I'm going for the 256GB Xs in silver, but maybe black. Would have really loved a blue option for the Xs, whatever.

 

[wallysb01]

I’m lost. So if I’m exaggerating, you think every iPhone buyer really wants a small phone?

Fair enough, I guess. Its hyperbole in the sense that you were using this statement to exaggerate the points made by others. No one here ever said everyone wants a small phone, but you went and used that as some sort of point against those you're arguing with anyway. More properly this would be a straw man fallacy, could call it a ridicule.

this is the problem right here. You're looking for a flagship level phone at a low (for Apple) price. Maybe if there were more people willing to pay $750 for a 4.5" Xr, maybe Apple would make one. But too many equate size with value.

The Xr isn't the flag ship. The Xr is really closer what maybe could be called a Xr Plus, given its size relative to the 7/8 Plus. What I'm looking for is an Xr that is the size of the standard 7/8 at the largest. If they are charging $750 for the Xr "plus", ~$600 for that smaller Xr would be fairly consistent with Apple's price segmentations.

That's basically an Xs with an LCD and a single camera. If they made this, it would likely (IMO) canibalize sales of the Xs which likely makes better margins.

Right, this is their concern, IMO. They aren't going to make a smaller, slightly cheaper Xr style phone because they want to try to push you into the $1000 phone. As a consumer, that rubs me the wrong way. I'm not going to spend more because someone doesn't make what I want. Now, there might be hope here though. Apple has a tendency to work down the latter over time, so maybe even by spring, once they feel they have cashed in on the higher margin phones, we'll see a smaller phone.

 

[subjonas]

this is the problem right here. You're looking for a flagship level phone at a low (for Apple) price. Maybe if there were more people willing to pay $750 for a 4.5" Xr, maybe Apple would make one. But too many equate size with value.

A small iPhone with the latest guts won't make Apple the kind of margin it wants.

I completely agree. Apple isn’t fond of small phones because even if they put in top specs they couldn’t sell them with the margins that they can sell equally specced larger phones—because of that size = value perception. (Not to mention Apple can cram more features into bigger phones which allows them sell them with even higher margins.)
So it’s due to higher profitability of big phones along with the larger market for big phones that drives Apple to scrap lower profit devices like the SE. Since there are at least two factors and we don’t know the actual numbers, it’s possible the small phone market could actually be significant.

 

[ftaok]

The Xr isn't the flag ship. The Xr is really closer what maybe could be called a Xr Plus, given its size relative to the 7/8 Plus. What I'm looking for is an Xr that is the size of the standard 7/8 at the largest. If they are charging $750 for the Xr "plus", ~$600 for that smaller Xr would be fairly consistent with Apple's price segmentations.

That's exactly what I'm saying. If you put the same parts in this smaller Xr and price it at $600, Apple won't make the same margins. The smaller screen isn't worth $150. So they'd have to scrimp in other ways, then it's not the device you really want.

I'm asking if you'd be willing to pay $750 for this smaller Xr? Maybe you would because you put value on the smaller form factor. I'm thinking most would not.

So Apple is left with a dilemma. They could have both the 6.1 Xr and the smaller Xr both for $750. Or they could have the 6.1 Xr at $750 and a gimped small Xr for $600. I think they end up making smaller margin on both since they would split that market segment.

Apple is very deliberate in their product tiering. And this leads right up to your next point.

Right, this is their concern, IMO. They aren't going to make a smaller, slightly cheaper Xr style phone because they want to try to push you into the $1000 phone. As a consumer, that rubs me the wrong way. I'm not going to spend more because someone doesn't make what I want. Now, there might be hope here though. Apple has a tendency to work down the latter over time, so maybe even by spring, once they feel they have cashed in on the higher margin phones, we'll see a smaller phone.

Your apparently one of the customers that fall in between the cracks (at the moment). Your wants/needs are not being met with their newest lineup. I get it, it sucks. I've been there. Personally, I've been waiting for a phone around the size of my current iPhone 6 with a dual camera. The X actually met all of my needs, but the 6 still worked well at the time (pre-iOS11), so I waited ... hoping the base prices would come down. They haven't, but at least they didn't go up. And I'll get the Xs which should have the bugs from the X worked out.

I think there are far more people like me that the new lineup satisfies. And that's precisely why Apple does it. They're in the business of making money. If a small percentage of people fall in the crack, then that's how it's gotta be.

Perhaps your ideal device gets made. In the meantime, I hope you can stick it out with the one you have.

 

[wallysb01]

That's exactly what I'm saying. If you put the same parts in this smaller Xr and price it at $600, Apple won't make the same margins. The smaller screen isn't worth $150. So they'd have to scrimp in other ways, then it's not the device you really want.

I'm asking if you'd be willing to pay $750 for this smaller Xr? Maybe you would because you put value on the smaller form factor. I'm thinking most would not.

They manage to get more features into the Xs in a smaller package. I don't think the calculus is quite as simple as you're making it out. Smaller screen, smaller battery, smaller casing, smaller packaging, cheaper shipping/inventory-ing. There is more here than the screen size. Does it add up to $150, nah, probably not. But they did it with previous versions. Why do we find it so impossible with this version? I suppose its because the Xr is already skimped down, well, the price difference could shrink some. That would be fine by me. $650 and I'd probably bite. Honestly, the size turns me off more than the price.

So Apple is left with a dilemma. They could have both the 6.1 Xr and the smaller Xr both for $750. Or they could have the 6.1 Xr at $750 and a gimped small Xr for $600. I think they end up making smaller margin on both since they would split that market segment.

Apple is very deliberate in their product tiering. And this leads right up to your next point.


Your apparently one of the customers that fall in between the cracks (at the moment). Your wants/needs are not being met with their newest lineup. I get it, it sucks. I've been there. Personally, I've been waiting for a phone around the size of my current iPhone 6 with a dual camera. The X actually met all of my needs, but the 6 still worked well at the time (pre-iOS11), so I waited ... hoping the base prices would come down. They haven't, but at least they didn't go up. And I'll get the Xs which should have the bugs from the X worked out.

I think there are far more people like me that the new lineup satisfies. And that's precisely why Apple does it. They're in the business of making money. If a small percentage of people fall in the crack, then that's how it's gotta be.

Perhaps your ideal device gets made. In the meantime, I hope you can stick it out with the one you have.

All perfectly reasonable points. I suppose over time we'll see just how many people are slipping through the cracks.

 

[rui no onna]

That's exactly what I'm saying. If you put the same parts in this smaller Xr and price it at $600, Apple won't make the same margins. The smaller screen isn't worth $150. So they'd have to scrimp in other ways, then it's not the device you really want.

I'm asking if you'd be willing to pay $750 for this smaller Xr? Maybe you would because you put value on the smaller form factor. I'm thinking most would not.

So Apple is left with a dilemma. They could have both the 6.1 Xr and the smaller Xr both for $750. Or they could have the 6.1 Xr at $750 and a gimped small Xr for $600. I think they end up making smaller margin on both since they would split that market segment.

Apple is very deliberate in their product tiering. And this leads right up to your next point.


Your apparently one of the customers that fall in between the cracks (at the moment). Your wants/needs are not being met with their newest lineup. I get it, it sucks. I've been there. Personally, I've been waiting for a phone around the size of my current iPhone 6 with a dual camera. The X actually met all of my needs, but the 6 still worked well at the time (pre-iOS11), so I waited ... hoping the base prices would come down. They haven't, but at least they didn't go up. And I'll get the Xs which should have the bugs from the X worked out.

I think there are far more people like me that the new lineup satisfies. And that's precisely why Apple does it. They're in the business of making money. If a small percentage of people fall in the crack, then that's how it's gotta be.

Perhaps your ideal device gets made. In the meantime, I hope you can stick it out with the one you have.

Given the other alternative for not-so-largish is the $999 Xs, I'd actually be willing to bite the bullet on a $650-700 Xr mini. Alas, not gonna happen while the iPhone 8 is occupying that slot. Perhaps next year?

 

[mojolicious]

I have huge, calloused, manly hands.

I have pockets which can accommodate a paperback Thomas Pynchon novel.

I have a burning desire for a compact iPhone. With an edge-to-edge screen they could squeeze 5" onto something the size of a '4'.