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Other Where is the small petite sized phone?

For the most part, I understand why Apple is making the decision to make phone screens larger. I'm just a little sad about it. The fact that all three of the phones they announced this week are larger than their current small phone (that is the 6/7/8 size model) is discouraging to me. (Anyone else notice how they only compared the phones to the Plus size phones in the keynote?)

As much as I love my SE, I know that form factor is probably going away, so I've been slowly preparing myself to get used to the larger size. But right when I'm thinking about upgrading, they make it even larger.

Definitely want to get my hands on the new models before I make any decisions though.
 
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bluecoast said:
iPhone 7 is the new small phone.

Although it pains me to write that.

Next March, I can see Apple simply releasing a version of it called just ‘iPhone’ (including a plus size) with every component of the 7 and 7 plus the same except for:

- A11 & its camera - for longevity
- lcd screen from the 7 era plus force touch from the XR ie to remove 3D Touch and this make the screen component cheaper

In this way:
- the 7 gets even cheaper and can stay in the market a little longer (with the a11 & its camera) & its festures are nowhere near the XR (ie so you are not getting new features on a budget)
- the ‘iphone plus’ provides a bigger screen and a ‘pricing bridge’ to the XR
- Apple now no longer needs to make the 7 or 8
- the iPhone range is simplified to ‘budget/classic’, mid-range (XR) and premium (XS)
Click to expand...

Interesting, but they could have done that now if they wanted.

Also, this "iPhone" that you speak of is basically a stripped down iPhone8, rather than a Franken-7. I would imagine if such a phone happened, they would like for it to have wireless charging.

But back to your lineup, which I do like very much. I would guess that they would not have a plus version.

$500 for the iPhone (8 chassis, therefore TouchID) (maybe need to strip it even further to get to $450)
$750 for the Xr
$1000 for the Xs
$1100 for the Xs Max
[doublepost=1536936113][/doublepost]
mrbobdobolina said:
For the most part, I understand why Apple is making the decision to make phone screens larger. I'm just a little sad about it. The fact that all three of the phones they announced this week are larger than their current small phone (that is the 6/7/8 size model) is discouraging to me. (Anyone else notice how they only compared the phones to the Plus size phones in the keynote?)

As much as I love my SE, I know that form factor is probably going away, so I've been slowly preparing myself to get used to the larger size. But right when I'm thinking about upgrading, they make it even larger.

Definitely want to get my hands on the new models before I make any decisions though.
Click to expand...
While Apple doesn't disclose sales numbers by model, most analysts had pegged the 8plus outselling the 8 by a wide margin (pun not intended).

It's not surprising that the entire line is moving up in size. That's what the market wants.
 
When iPhone 5 came out, a lot of people said it was too big, and that the iPhone 4 was a better form factor. And that was right. iPhones have progressively gotten less ergonomic since #4. Not to mention, they keep getting much, much more fragile with each iteration. Less metal, more glass, heavier, harder to hold, easier to drop, etc. And the improvements to internals have no real-world application because they just keep making the operating system clunkier and flashier, so there's actually been no noticeable performance improvement since the original 3G. The 3G at launch was just as snappy to load as any iPhone now. It was just lighter weight software. Then they added a bunch of fluff, and the 3g got slow, so you'd buy a 4. And so on.

Now the SE, which was once argued by many to be "too big", is too small for the marketplace. And frankly, this is all a reaction to Samsung. Apple is just following the trends so they don't lose out to a competitor.
 
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jackoatmon said:
When iPhone 5 came out, a lot of people said it was too big, and that the iPhone 4 was a better form factor. And that was right. iPhones have progressively gotten less ergonomic since #4. Not to mention, they keep getting much, much more fragile with each iteration. Less metal, more glass, heavier, harder to hold, easier to drop, etc. And the improvements to internals have no real-world application because they just keep making the operating system clunkier and flashier, so there's actually been no noticeable performance improvement since the original 3G. The 3G at launch was just as snappy to load as any iPhone now. It was just lighter weight software. Then they added a bunch of fluff, and the 3g got slow, so you'd buy a 4. And so on.

Now the SE, which was once argued by many to be "too big", is too small for the marketplace. And frankly, this is all a reaction to Samsung. Apple is just following the trends so they don't lose out to a competitor.
Click to expand...

I so agree. To be fair though, I do appreciate a lot of the features that have been added since the 3G. But oh what I wouldn’t give for a high functioning 4. Seriously it would shock Apple.
 
I have the X, and I do not even mourn for a second for 4 inch iPhone. That thing is just too tiny. I still have the 5S, but I almost never use it. The X is my daily driver and it suits me perfectly.

The XS Max is just too large for me, though.
 
jackoatmon said:
When iPhone 5 came out, a lot of people said it was too big, and that the iPhone 4 was a better form factor. .
Click to expand...

As far as i am concerned, the iPhone 4 was just about the worst iPhone ever released. I still have an ex-work one (4 or 4s), I still have it as it has basically never been used due to its brick like weight. Same basic size as the (much better) 3GS but with horrible square edges and what felt like twice the weight due to the ridiculous glass back. The iPhone 5 size increase was a concern when I got it but the slimness and lack of weight more than made up for it.
 
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I would also say that the new phones (with the pukenotch, the Samsung-inspired design, the big awkward lens bumps, the cartoonish size and garish maximalist design) represent the clear deviation from the Steve Jobs era. If we think back to the iPod, back then Apple was a company with a vision of the future where technology got smaller, more ergonomic, more discrete, sleek and more 'futuristic' in a Deiter Rams sense. Whereas now, it's back to the 1970s HiFi / muscle car craze era – bigger is better, louder is cooler, and ergonomics are a quaint and unnecessary notion.
 
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dcpmark said:
Couldn’t WAIT to get rid of my iPhone 6 for the SE...it was too big. So considering anything bigger than a 6 is a non-starter.
Click to expand...

Yep. When my 5 battery died, I got a 6. Way too big. Kept dropping it. Suffered with it for a year, then the SE came out to my great delight.

Apple: Please listen bc I’ve got no problem buying a simple small non Apple phone for...phone calls. That’s about all I use it for. I have a Mac mini, iPad mini, and soon, an iWatch 4. The phone is almost redundant, and I’m not gonna pay $1k for a heavy, bulky Phone. Bye, bye!
 
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solarmon said:
Yep. When my 5 battery died, I got a 6. Way too big. Kept dropping it.
Click to expand...

Yep. One of the reasons this happened to us was the design of the 6....not only was it too wide, but it was too thin and had rounded edges, which made it easy to rotate while you were holding it. The SE was not only thicker, but had squared-off sides that made it easy to hold, less prone to dropping or slipping out of your hand.
 
To the OP - not only women, but kids too. Where we live kids get phones upon finishing elementary school (i.e. finishing 5th grade, or around 10 years old). Don't judge, just the way it is here. Pretty much every kid I know has an SE (or prior hand me downs from parents...5, 5s, that sort of thing). But they didn't get the SE owed to price. They got it owed to size. Kid hands and pockets are small. Fact.
 
solarmon said:
Yep. When my 5 battery died, I got a 6. Way too big. Kept dropping it.
Click to expand...
dcpmark said:
Yep. One of the reasons this happened to us was the design of the 6....not only was it too wide, but it was too thin and had rounded edges, which made it easy to rotate while you were holding it. The SE was not only thicker, but had squared-off sides that made it easy to hold, less prone to dropping or slipping out of your hand.
Click to expand...

At the risk of jinxing my luck, but my SE has been caseless since day 1 and it is still in A-grade condition. They are tough little buggers.
The size is just right for my hand and the surface is not too slippery. The curves of the latest phones (gorgeous as they look in Apple's promo stuff) are just too slippery.
Like a bar of soap.
 
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Interestingly, I have noticed that most people I know with larger phones are women, because they carry them in a purse, not a pocket.

I am going for the larger size phone this year for the first time, after fighting it for years. The larger phones won’t fit well in front women’s pockets, but most of my pants have large back pockets. I may size up on my wallet, which currently holds the IPhone X, but barely.

My kids both have SEs. When my daughter goes to college in a few years, I’ll probably gift her with another phone, and all they will have will be larger sizes.
 
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Yeah i also do not use cases. It's never been an issue for me in any way. I've never put a case on an iPhone since buying my 3G on launch day. Hasn't seemed to matter in any way.
 
ftaok said:
Interesting, but they could have done that now if they wanted.

Also, this "iPhone" that you speak of is basically a stripped down iPhone8, rather than a Franken-7. I would imagine if such a phone happened, they would like for it to have wireless charging.

But back to your lineup, which I do like very much. I would guess that they would not have a plus version.

$500 for the iPhone (8 chassis, therefore TouchID) (maybe need to strip it even further to get to $450)
$750 for the Xr
$1000 for the Xs
$1100 for the Xs Max
[doublepost=1536936113][/doublepost]While Apple doesn't disclose sales numbers by model, most analysts had pegged the 8plus outselling the 8 by a wide margin (pun not intended).

It's not surprising that the entire line is moving up in size. That's what the market wants.
Click to expand...

What we do know though is how the install base changes year to year. In April of 2017, about 6 months after the iPhone 7 came out and around a year after the iPhone SE came out, the SE made up 3% of iPhones, while the 7 and 7 plus made up 8 and 11 percent respectively (from this reference in April of 2017). For example over time:

iPhone-installed-base-US-CIRP.png


Notice the SE's growth vs the 7 and 7 plus. That's not some totally trivial number, making up maybe 10-20% of "new" phone sales at the time. And while the SE had more time to sell, the SE was also at a disadvantage because it was nearly the same guts as a 6s, which was released ~6 months earlier (a few smaller differences in camera and battery, of course). So, we don't really know how a fully competitive ~5", or smaller, phone would sell if released at the same time as the larger options.
 
The fact that this is a debate should be enough to prove there is a market for smaller smartphones as well as larger ones. I'm male and 5'9" with average sized hands. My wife is an inch taller and she has longer fingers. The iPhone X is pushing the size limit for a phone that I can operate with one hand. That's the main reason I have never wanted an iPhone Plus... to me it's a two-handed device that requires larger pocket than should be necessary for a phone. But anyone who has smaller hands than mine probably thinks of the iPhone X/XS as a two-handed device.

Over the years we have seen iPhones grow larger alongside their Android counterparts, which is kind of funny considering the trend in pre-smart mobile phones was to shrink them down to almost comically miniature sizes. The iPhone XS Max is physically no larger than an iPhone 8 Plus. It just has a larger display. The real issue here is that no update to the SE was announced, and that is a disappointment to folks who find it to be the most comfortable iPhone to use. Yes the iPhone 7/8 is a tad smaller than the X/XS, but not by much.

Ultimately it comes down to how you want to use and carry a smartphone. Many think the larger display and longer battery life is worth carrying, even if it requires two hands. I personally value the ability to use it one-handed. As far as carrying goes... I don't like having things in my pants pockets, so I tend to carry my iPhone in a jacket pocket or bag. A larger smartphone would still fit easily into those places. However in the Summer I will sometimes carry my iPhone X in the front pocket of my jeans or shorts out of convenience. It's not comfortable, and it looks awful, but I sometimes do it. The iPhone X is still less bulky than many sets of keys or wallets (I prefer the ultra-slim wallets with just a few cards though).

The most pocket-able phone I ever owned was the Motorola Razr, but of course I also carried a PalmOS device and an mp3 player... so when you think about how smartphones replace multiple devices (not to mention a compact camera) it doesn't seem so bad from a carrying perspective. But usability is another thing. There are so many situations when it may be necessary to pull out your iPhone and use it with only one hand. Apple really should offer a full range of sizes.

As a parent there is another market Apple should consider. Parents want to buy their teens smartphones that are less expensive, more durable, and easily pocket-able. It's no wonder that so many parents buy their teens inexpensive Android phones, even when the parents are iPhone users.
 
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Scepticalscribe said:
There actually is a market for small phones, - people (and not only women, but women comprise a large part of any given population) who want small phones and who like the form factor.

It is not just that you like to be able to use it with one hand (as I do), but also to be able to carry it around in a jeans or jacket pocket easily.

My brother had offered me his old iPhone 6, as a gift, and I found it too large, too unwieldy, and too uncomfortable to use.

As long as my iPhone SE works, that is what I shall use, and as long as it exists, that is what I shall replace it with.

Now, I have no intention of replacing my computer with my phone; for that, I have a perfectly good MBA.
Click to expand...

The market for a phone size isn't only determined by the number of people who want that size. It's also determined by the frequency with which those customers purchase new products. You'll notice that most people who want a small phone hold onto their phones for years and don't tend to have multiple phones. (They also tend to be older like me. Not the target market for tech. ) And these users also aren't motivated by technological advances to buy new phones (or new computers I'd wager). In contrast, the buyers of the new models purchase new products frequently. I see many posts here from iPhone X users who claim own multiple iPhones. Tech. advances motivate these users to buy new products.

So in realty the market for the small form factor is small and dying at a fast rate. No large company like apple has a future satisfying these buyers. The market is portably only big enough to sustain a small niche company.
 
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Eric Rathhaus said:
The market for a phone size isn't only determined by the number of people who want that size. It's also determined by the frequency with which those customers purchase new products. You'll notice that most people who want a small phone hold onto their phones for years and don't tend to have multiple phones. (They also tend to be older like me. Not the target market for tech. ) And these users also aren't motivated by technological advances to buy new phones (or new computers I'd wager). In contrast, the buyers of the new models purchase new products frequently. I see many posts here from iPhone X users who claim own multiple iPhones. Tech. advances motivate these users to buy new products.

So in realty the market for the small form factor is small and dying at a fast rate. No large company like apple has a future satisfying these buyers. The market is portably only big enough to sustain a small niche company.
Click to expand...

Very fair post - and point - and well said.

There is probably a lot of truth in this; I hold onto a phone (and anything else, such as a MBA) that is well designed, is reliable, portable, works well without giving any problems, - and thus, meets my needs.

The last time I went "wow" at an Apple event was when the late Mr Jobs eased a MBA from an A4 envelope; there and then, I decided that I "wanted" this computer, although I didn't actually purchase one for another two years until they had improved he specifications. But, I knew I wanted one and would buy one the day it was unveiled.

Since then, if I am satisfied, pleased, content, with a product, only a compelling reason will persuade me to change.
 
Phew – got a brand new SE in leftover stock at the Apple store. My current one is only a year old, too, so I should be ok for 6-8 years.
 
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