Other Where is the small petite sized phone?

[GGJstudios]

There’s nothing wrong with it in the sense that sure, everyone is free to do it, just like everyone is free to complain. I’m just saying that stating the obvious adds no value to the conversation, it brings about no enlightenment because everyone already knows it. That’s the characteristic of obvious.

Again, people know this, so I don’t think it bears repeating. Nevertheless it does get repeated by many here. It gets repeated and repeated and repeated and repeated, with absolutely no effect—because it’s obvious.

The same can be said about the complaints themselves. They get repeated and repeated. And yet, you seem to think that one side of the discussion should be shut down because it's obvious. Sorry, it doesn't work that way.

True. But let me guess—you only use these arguments against complaints you don’t agree with?
If I were to search your post history, would I find no complaints against Apple?

Sure, there are things about Apple products that I don't care for, but I'm not going to complain repeatedly in this forum about them, because no one in the forum can change anything that Apple does, and Apple doesn't read the forum, looking for feedback on its products and services. It has a website for that, which is the appropriate place to lodge complaints, because then someone from Apple will actually read them and maybe something would be done about them.

Large screens can do more functions, like split screen. Point is, the size of a device is one of the determining factors as to how it can be used. How it can be used = functionality. It’s true with cars, tools, laptops, iPads, phones, and many other things.

Fitting in a particular pocket (as was being discussed here) is not part of an iPhone's functionality. Look at any list of iPhone features and functions on the Apple site, and you won't find a single mention of how well it fits in small pockets. That has nothing to do with how it can be used; only how it can be transported. It makes more sense to modify a pocket to fit the phone, than to complain to Apple to modify its phones to fit a particular pocket.

 

[wallysb01]

The same can be said about the complaints themselves. They get repeated and repeated. And yet, you seem to think that one side of the discussion should be shut down because it's obvious. Sorry, it doesn't work that way.

I don't want to jump on subjones' toes, but I don't he was telling you to shut up so much as saying that you're essentially trying to divert the conversation into something that is not informative for anyone. Exchanging ideas about about what we'd like iPhones to be, even if complaining, is a more productive conversation than just telling us Apple doesn't have to make everything for everyone.

Sure, there are things about Apple products that I don't care for, but I'm not going to complain repeatedly in this forum about them, because no one in the forum can change anything that Apple does, and Apple doesn't read the forum, looking for feedback on its products and services. It has a website for that, which is the appropriate place to lodge complaints, because then someone from Apple will actually read them and maybe something would be done about them.

And yet, here you are complaining to the complainers about their complaining. You don't have to agree with the complaints, but at the same time you don't have to trivialize them self evident points.

Fitting in a particular pocket (as was being discussed here) is not part of an iPhone's functionality. Look at any list of iPhone features and functions on the Apple site, and you won't find a single mention of how well it fits in small pockets. That has nothing to do with how it can be used; only how it can be transported. It makes more sense to modify a pocket to fit the phone, than to complain to Apple to modify its phones to fit a particular pocket.

Look at the iPhone features and functions on the Apple site and you WILL find its dimensions. This is a feature that directly relates to its functionality. You're just wrong on this point. A 747 has different functionality than an F-18, size is part of the reason why.

 

[shoebobs]

I don’t agree with the argument that Apple is ignoring the small phones because their market research has indicated there is no market. Apple doesn’t listen to what the market wants, they force their decisions onto the market.

If they based their decisions on market research, they wouldn’t have dropped optical drives/USB type A on Macs and headphone jack on the iPhone as aggressive a timeframe as they did.

This decision isn’t because the market doesn’t want a small phone option, it is because they want you to be forced to pay the much higher premium for the bigger screen phones. It’s all about Tim trying to increase profits by forcing consumers into higher cost devices.

 

[subjonas]

The same can be said about the complaints themselves. They get repeated and repeated. And yet, you seem to think that one side of the discussion should be shut down because it's obvious. Sorry, it doesn't work that way.

What discussion? Telling someone to go buy something else is the essentially saying “shut up, take it or leave it.” Hardly a discussion. Discussion is asking questions, countering arguments with facts and reason, etc.

My issue is not with repetition. That’s inevitable. It’s the obvious condescending statements that we can do without.

Sure, there are things about Apple products that I don't care for, but I'm not going to complain repeatedly in this forum about them, because no one in the forum can change anything that Apple does, and Apple doesn't read the forum, looking for feedback on its products and services. It has a website for that, which is the appropriate place to lodge complaints, because then someone from Apple will actually read them and maybe something would be done about them.

I’m not clear on your answers.
So you do criticize all complaints, not just the ones you disagree with?
So you have or have not complained here about Apple on this site? Because if you have even once, you’re being hypocritical with everything you’re saying here.

I’m not sure why you’re focusing on the issue of repetition now. I don’t care about it, my issue is with stating the obvious. And your issue is apparently complaining about Apple on a non-official Apple website, which I think is fine, and which I have a hard time believing you’re innocent of. But please correct me if I’m wrong.

Fitting in a particular pocket (as was being discussed here) is not part of an iPhone's functionality. Look at any list of iPhone features and functions on the Apple site, and you won't find a single mention of how well it fits in small pockets. That has nothing to do with how it can be used; only how it can be transported. It makes more sense to modify a pocket to fit the phone, than to complain to Apple to modify its phones to fit a particular pocket.

Apple has absolutely advertised the portability of many of their devices. But even if that wasn’t so, whether something is listed on a manufacturer’s website is not the definition of functionality. But I can see I’m not going to win you over on this point.

 

[FelixDerKater]

This is no longer a petite sized world.

 

[dukebound85]

Remember when Apple said 3.5in and then 4in phones were ideal because you could reach everything with your thumb?

Remember when Apple fans would use that argument to say how large phones were foolish?

Pepperidge farms remembers

 

[subjonas]

I don’t agree with the argument that Apple is ignoring the small phones because their market research has indicated there is no market. Apple doesn’t listen to what the market wants, they force their decisions onto the market.

If they based their decisions on market research, they wouldn’t have dropped optical drives/USB type A on Macs and headphone jack on the iPhone as aggressive a timeframe as they did.

This decision isn’t because the market doesn’t want a small phone option, it is because they want you to be forced to pay the much higher premium for the bigger screen phones. It’s all about Tim trying to increase profits by forcing consumers into higher cost devices.

I agree, I think this is a much bigger factor than people are giving credit to. I do think the big phone market is substantially bigger than the small phone market right now, but not so much to make small phone market insignificant. The big phones have just too much potential for profit for Apple to allow small phones to distract from their sales. With Apple’s competition giving up on one-handed phones, Apple has no financial reason to keep them around anymore.

 

[dukebound85]

With all due respect, you're going off personal opinion by saying there is a market for it. I am trusting Apple here, as I am sure they have done plenty of research and understand better than anyone. If there was a market, they would make a phone that size.

You realize the se was a huge seller right? I think that’s indicative of a market....

 

[douglasf13]

Regardless of whether there are people who prefer the smaller phones, there really is no profitable market for 4" phones.

Take a look around. Who's selling a 4" phone anymore. Apple was the last one and the margins must have been ridiculously small (for Apple standards) on the $350 SE.

If they were to build an SE sized phone with the edge-to-edge OLED screen and FaceID, there would folks that would love that phone. Would they pay $1000 for it? Would they pay $900? maybe some would, but the value proposition doesn't look good since most people equate size with cost.

So if they start gimping the SE-sized Xs, then folks get upset that there's no dual camera or the battery life sucks, or whatever.

No one is selling a small flagship anymore. Apple certainly cant do it at the scale they are at. Perhaps a smaller Android manufacturer could since they do not need to sell 10s of millions of phones to be a success.
[doublepost=1536850685][/doublepost]
Haha. We both said the same thing, practically.

I paid nearly $2K for a freaking 12” MacBook of all things, and so did a lot of others, so paying $1K for a top end phone the size of my SE would be a no-brainer. Apple has never been about budgets.

 

[Maven1975]

Its coming...

Theres no way Apple would leave cash like that on the table.

Perhaps with the iPad launch we will see the return of the iPad mini and a new XRse

 

[DNichter]

You realize the se was a huge seller right? I think that’s indicative of a market....

Companies typically don’t discontinue a huge seller without a similar replacement. Hoping for an SE 2 for everyone though.
[doublepost=1536915148][/doublepost]

Fair enough, I guess. Its hyperbole in the sense that you were using this statement to exaggerate the points made by others. No one here ever said everyone wants a small phone, but you went and used that as some sort of point against those you're arguing with anyway. More properly this would be a straw man fallacy, could call it a ridicule.



The Xr isn't the flag ship. The Xr is really closer what maybe could be called a Xr Plus, given its size relative to the 7/8 Plus. What I'm looking for is an Xr that is the size of the standard 7/8 at the largest. If they are charging $750 for the Xr "plus", ~$600 for that smaller Xr would be fairly consistent with Apple's price segmentations.



Right, this is their concern, IMO. They aren't going to make a smaller, slightly cheaper Xr style phone because they want to try to push you into the $1000 phone. As a consumer, that rubs me the wrong way. I'm not going to spend more because someone doesn't make what I want. Now, there might be hope here though. Apple has a tendency to work down the latter over time, so maybe even by spring, once they feel they have cashed in on the higher margin phones, we'll see a smaller phone.

Yea I’m not looking at it as deep as you and some people on here are. I’m just saying if there was a huge market for the SE and Apple could make a nice business out of it, they wouldn’t discontinue it without a replacement. Maybe they still will have a new one coming. Rumors for March. I’m certainly not against it. I think an X style SE would be awesome.

 

[44267547]

Greg Joskwiak said they brought back the iPhone SE in 2016 because there was a demographic who appreciated a 4 inch iPhone, which I believe to be true. But what he didn’t say during the March 2016 keynote, was that this phone really was meant for emerging markets across the world. It’s still very expensive even in countries like India, but I believe Apple wanted the SE to be a global seller more than anything else.

 

[arkitect]

Apple is trying to capture this market for the lifetime income.

Oh definitely.

They are making the proverbial hay while the sun shines…

Lean times come to all corporations.

I always have a laugh when I watch the original Blade Runner and the huge billboards for Atari, Pan Am, RCA and others. All long gone.
[doublepost=1536918483][/doublepost]

Maybe they still will have a new one coming. Rumors for March. I’m certainly not against it. I think an X style SE would be awesome.

I'm holding out for March as well… but just in case have a brand new unwrapped SE in my drawer in case my current one goes belly up.

 

[Lioness~]

With all due respect, you're going off personal opinion by saying there is a market for it. I am trusting Apple here, as I am sure they have done plenty of research and understand better than anyone. If there was a market, they would make a phone that size.

Maybe later, they sure want to sell more of their flagship phones first. We small phone owners, are patient people

I wouldn't be surprised if Apple releases an iPhone X Mini next year. I do think there is a small market for a smaller phone. I know a few people personally that want a smaller phone.

Of course there’s a market for a small phone. But maybe not that many would buy the big phones if they released a Xs Mini at the same time as their bigger and more expensive phones.
Think that’s the thought behind removing SE, and not introducing a Mini now.

Id pay $999 for an iPhone Xs style phone in an SE form factor. I love my X because of the edge to edge screen, but I much did prefer the SE size.

Me too, it’s not about the price, but the size. I have not given up that. It will come a X(s) Mini.

I never go for big phones either... I have an iPad for large media consumption...

Me too, if Apple don’t get that they will sell more iPads if they have a smaller phone in their lineup would make them really stupid, it would surprise me.

Looks like there is hope for smaller phones. Makes sense to use 7 parts, but I wonder what it would look like. Just an SE with a glass back?

Wonderful, it will come. I am repeating, Xs Mini is on its way

Given the other alternative for not-so-largish is the $999 Xs, I'd actually be willing to bite the bullet on a $650-700 Xr mini. Alas, not gonna happen while the iPhone 8 is occupying that slot. Perhaps next year?

But it will come. Maybe not both Xs and Xr Mini though. My bet is X(s) Mini, more money for Apple.

I'm holding out for March as well… but just in case have a brand new unwrapped SE in my drawer in case my current one goes belly up.

I am thinking of getting one too, not decided yet....if I will be bold enough to count on a new Xs Mini, or not.

 

[arkitect]

Maybe later, they sure want to sell more of their flagship phones first.

I agree that is Apple's strategy.

Look at today's release: iPhone Xs and Xs Max today… but the "cheaper" Xr only available for pre-order next week (I think).
They are relying on people's "instant gratification" to kick in and buy the latest bestest errm… largest phone to show off in front of their peers.

Of course, none of that makes me hopeful for a new SE. Though I'll wait till March/April 2019 before I do anything rash.

We small phone owners, are patient people

I'm working on that… believe me…

 

[DNichter]

Maybe later, they sure want to sell more of their flagship phones first. We small phone owners, are patient people


Of course there’s a market for a small phone. But maybe not that many would buy the big phones if they released a Xs Mini at the same time as their bigger and more expensive phones.
Think that’s the thought behind removing SE, and not introducing a Mini now.


Me too, it’s not about the price, but the size. I have not given up that. It will come a X(s) Mini.


Me too, if Apple don’t get that they will sell more iPads if they have a smaller phone in their lineup would make them really stupid, it would surprise me.


Wonderful, it will come. I am repeating, Xs Mini is on its way

But it will come. Maybe not both Xs and Xr Mini though. My bet is X(s) Mini, more money for Apple.



I am thinking of getting one too, not decided yet....if I will be bold enough to count on a new Xs Mini, or not.

I’d like a small redesign, but I don’t think they’d call it an Xs anything, considering it would be the same internals of the 7. My guess is just the current SE with a glass back. We’ll see though.

 

[scottrods]

I keep seeing the "Why apple did this" arguments and suggestions... So far no one has hit it yet...

Apple uses it's market "power" to guide you to "their" future plans. Smart if you ask me. They didn't;t cut the smaller phones out due to no sales... they do have a "connected person" future vision though, which would be easier reached if the devices they call computers, can be carried with you and not always necessary. If the Apple Watch gets its way, everyone who has an iPhone will have a Watch as well, and won't need to carry that Huge screen around, but to have it as an accessory (that's actually the base of all the watch functions eventually, I think). As things develop I expect the changes that don't fit my current needs, and likely DO fit Apples vision and direction with their research and creations are headed... I don't know about you folks reading this stuff, but I'm certainly not ready for autonomous cars.... but there's Apple, one of several pioneers pushing that venue as a "next step". In my lifetime I don't see those being a huge thing. Maybe for those who are in their 20's or 30's it makes sense, as they still navigate the popular world... I like my slow moving life and my time at home more than anything at age 54... I hope to never get so tired of driving my car becomes self driving...

The more I see the conversation on phone size and ponder it's importance, the less I think any of the banter matters to Apple. They Are slowly taking bigger and bigger bites of power and want it all. They want everyone to embrace everything they embrace (much like Nike) and screw the diversity they "say" they want in the world.

 

[Q-Dog]

I suspect Apple will make another "small" phone, eventually. I am not confident that phone will be as small as the 5s/SE.

My wife says she doesn't need a new phone, but she does not really like her current phone, a 6s, and she wants something smaller. We shall see.

 

[DNichter]

I suspect Apple will make another "small" phone, eventually. I am not confident that phone will be as small as the 5s/SE.

My wife says she doesn't need a new phone, but she does not really like her current phone, a 6s, and she wants something smaller. We shall see.

I think an x-style phone the size of the 6/7/8, but all screen would be really nice.

 

[solarmon]

What I don’t understand is the idea that you need s


I’m with you on this. I will always use an iPad for many important functions. So I will always have a big screen already.

I don’t need no stinkin’ huge phone that doesn’t fit in my pocket. Holding on to the SE and hope they upgrade it next year. If not...I will be shopping smaller phones from other brands. I just need a small phone, not an effin’ 65” 4K TV in my pocket.

[doublepost=1536930935][/doublepost]The other thing I do not understand: Apple made a big investment and a big deal about opening an SE phone factory in India. Are they closing it? Converting it? How the heck are the many many people who can’t afford $1K phone gonna stay with Apple? I don’t get it. Apple definitely isn’t listening to me anymore. Must vote with my wallet.

That said, I did buy my first Watch 4 today. Apple: it’s about the width, what sits comfortably in your palm. The big ones don’t. It’s that simple.

 

[bambooshots]

Not sure if it's been mentioned but get her a boob job. Larger bra size = larger phone able to be fit in there.

Win-win situation for you, as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

Go cast your vote on phone size preference....the poll is just getting started and it seems there is more than just a handful of people who prefer smaller phones:

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/poll-which-phone-size-do-you-prefer.2137263/

Have just done so.

I don’t agree with the argument that Apple is ignoring the small phones because their market research has indicated there is no market. Apple doesn’t listen to what the market wants, they force their decisions onto the market.

If they based their decisions on market research, they wouldn’t have dropped optical drives/USB type A on Macs and headphone jack on the iPhone as aggressive a timeframe as they did.

This decision isn’t because the market doesn’t want a small phone option, it is because they want you to be forced to pay the much higher premium for the bigger screen phones. It’s all about Tim trying to increase profits by forcing consumers into higher cost devices.

Exactly, and well said.

This is not "market driven', rather it is driven by the direction of where Apple wants the market to go.

You realize the se was a huge seller right? I think that’s indicative of a market....

Yes, agreed.

I paid nearly $2K for a freaking 12” MacBook of all things, and so did a lot of others, so paying $1K for a top end phone the size of my SE would be a no-brainer. Apple has never been about budgets.

And also agreed.

I agree that is Apple's strategy.

Look at today's release: iPhone Xs and Xs Max today… but the "cheaper" Xr only available for pre-order next week (I think).
They are relying on people's "instant gratification" to kick in and buy the latest bestest errm… largest phone to show off in front of their peers.

Of course, none of that makes me hopeful for a new SE. Though I'll wait till March/April 2019 before I do anything rash.


I'm working on that… believe me…

I'm in much the same boat.

 

[Lioness~]

I’d like a small redesign, but I don’t think they’d call it an Xs anything, considering it would be the same internals of the 7. My guess is just the current SE with a glass back. We’ll see though.

Current SE form is gone.
If it will come anew it will be aligned with the newer phones, more modern.

 

[arkitect]

I keep seeing the "Why apple did this" arguments and suggestions... So far no one has hit it yet...

Apple uses it's market "power" to guide you to "their" future plans. Smart if you ask me. They didn't;t cut the smaller phones out due to no sales... they do have a "connected person" future vision though, which would be easier reached if the devices they call computers, can be carried with you and not always necessary. If the Apple Watch gets its way, everyone who has an iPhone will have a Watch as well, and won't need to carry that Huge screen around, but to have it as an accessory (that's actually the base of all the watch functions eventually, I think). As things develop I expect the changes that don't fit my current needs, and likely DO fit Apples vision and direction with their research and creations are headed... I don't know about you folks reading this stuff, but I'm certainly not ready for autonomous cars.... but there's Apple, one of several pioneers pushing that venue as a "next step". In my lifetime I don't see those being a huge thing. Maybe for those who are in their 20's or 30's it makes sense, as they still navigate the popular world... I like my slow moving life and my time at home more than anything at age 54... I hope to never get so tired of driving my car becomes self driving...

The more I see the conversation on phone size and ponder it's importance, the less I think any of the banter matters to Apple. They Are slowly taking bigger and bigger bites of power and want it all. They want everyone to embrace everything they embrace (much like Nike) and screw the diversity they "say" they want in the world.

I'm the same age as you and agree with so much of your post.

I try never to say "never", but I cannot see myself ever wearing an Apple watch. I prefer my traditional watches too much for that.
Can I see the benefits in a "smart watch"? Yes! But… like I can see the benefits in a large phone for some people, it just isn't the right "fit" for me.

I like my slow moving life and my time at home more than anything at age 54... I hope to never get so tired of driving my car becomes self driving...

The more I see the conversation on phone size and ponder it's importance, the less I think any of the banter matters to Apple. They Are slowly taking bigger and bigger bites of power and want it all. They want everyone to embrace everything they embrace (much like Nike) and screw the diversity they "say" they want in the world.

Well said.

The more I see the conversation on phone size and ponder it's importance, the less I think any of the banter matters to Apple. They Are slowly taking bigger and bigger bites of power and want it all. They want everyone to embrace everything they embrace (much like Nike) and screw the diversity they "say" they want in the world.

This is true. They march to their own drum beat. Now, whether that is always a good thing only time will tell.
A lot of the corporate speak tries to portray themselves as caring and diversity embracing, but cynical me only sees that as a marketing ploy.
I would love to be the proverbial fly on their glass walls when they have their meetings.
Behind the facade lies… what I wonder?

At heart I am annoyed I guess as I see Apple have committed to a path that leaves no room for someone like me. But then again people our age are not Apple's future, apparently.

Heh, ho.

 

[bluecoast]

iPhone 7 is the new small phone...

...Although it pains me to write that.

Next March, I can see Apple simply releasing a version of it called just ‘iPhone’ (including a plus size) with every component of the 7 and 7 plus the same except for:

- A11 & its camera
- LCD screen from the 7 era plus force touch from the XR ie to remove 3D Touch (for a cheaper screen component)

In this way:

- The (reversioned) ‘7/8’ gets even cheaper and can stay in the market a little longer acting as a modern SE
- Its features are nowhere near the XR (ie so you are not getting 2018 features on a budget)
- the ‘iPhone Plus’ provides a bigger screen and a ‘pricing bridge’ to the XR
- Apple now no longer needs to make the 7 or 8
- the iPhone range is simplified to ‘budget/classic’, mid-range (XR) and premium (XS)