Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
I finished Season 1 of For All Mankind. It was ok, and I am planning to watch Season 2, but I kinda felt it was a bit all over the place. There were aspects of the show I did like, and I think my big issue with the season is what they did with Molly Cobb. We have this big episode with a ton of tension and then the next episode jumps a year. We didn't even get to bask in the glow of the achievement.
 
  • Like
Reactions: pachyderm
***SPOILERS*** Been watching Obi Wan as a lifelong fan. Very disappointed. The acting from Mcgregor is good, as well as little Leia. The third sister not so much. Seems very out of place. And no way Vader wouldn’t have erased her early with her errors. Also, for me, it really throws off the classic storyline of when Vader/Obi Wan meet up on the Death Star after thirty years and “now, I am the master “. As well as Leia “years ago you served my father in the clone wars“ as opposed to the new storyline “years ago you rescued me from kidnappers, used the force to save me and we escaped Vader and the empire together “. I think they could’ve gone many ways instead of changing the known and loved history. Was hoping for better with this one, but maybe in the last episode it will polish up a little more.
I get that, but I still like it.

These inconsistencies are the latest in a long line of these things, from a New Hope, and particularly in relation to the Obi-Wan Kenobi character.

Despite George Lucas's claims he always had a trilogy/saga in mind (and he hasn't been consistent about that) the first movie was always intended as a one-off. It was a science fiction version of Kurosawa's film "A Hidden Fortress". The extraordinary success of Star Wars (A New Hope) meant that the studios, and Lucas were interested in more.

For all of the subsequent movies, Lucas had co-writers that wrote, much (if not almost all) of the stories. When it came to the prequels, and there were writing meetings, and the writing teams wanted to know about Jedi and the Force, Lucas regularly pointed to Obi-Wan Kenobi's character in New Hope. On a side note, I don't think Sir Alec Guiness ever got enough credit for making Lucas's rather clunky dialogue and improbable space religion so believable.

There are some obvious illogical consequences from this reference to the original movie character. The uniform of the jedi in the prequels is based on his costume in that movie. With where the Star Wars universe has ended up, by the time of the events of A New Hope, Kenobi, in particular, and all other jedi more generally, are in hiding having been hunted down (whether by Order 66 in the prequels or otherwise). Meanwhile on Tattooine, one of the most wanted men in the galaxy, Obi-Wan Kenobi is going about his daily business dressed in the uniform / robes that he and his fellow jedi, were galaxy famous for wearing. What is worse, is that given the events in the prequels, he was a galactic hero, and would have been famous, and yet on Tatooine, without any change in his appearance (other than getting older) he's just "Old Ben Kenobi".

There are more.

In the confrontation with Vader on the Death Star, and the dialogue you mentioned, "When I left you I was but a boy. Now I am the master", Obi Wan responds "only a master of evil, Darth". Darth was clearly a first name at that point. In later movies and novels, every Sith was called Darth this or Darth that. A justification was later made for this in canon, that "Darth" was a sith title, but Vader already had a title. He was Lord Vader. It was lazy writing, but it's stuck.

I could go on, but I won't.

Star Wars was deeply damaged, in my view, by The Last Jedi, and despite JJ Abrams best efforts in the last film, it remains deeply damaged. However, the writers of the Mandalorian and the other recent spin-offs have made solid positive contributions to the franchise. I think Kenobi is a positive contribution as well.

That's not to say it is perfect. Rather than cannibalising A New Hope further, I would have much preferred them to embrace it and honour the content. There is still hope for that.

Leia may yet be told by Bail Organa that the reason he asked for Kenobi's help is that Kenobi had served him very effectively during the Clone Wars. We've seen otherwise in the movies, but to paraphrase Kenobi in RotJ, the truth often depends on one's point of view, and that would then be Leia's.

Another, more practical matter to consider, is that there were plans for a Kenobi movie / mini-series for a long time, more than 10 years, IIRC. Scripts were written, McGregor was contracted and agreed, but they have been repeatedly put on hold for one reason or another. Some of these reasons include not wanting to draw attention away from / undermine Episodes 7, 8 or 9, as Kenobi was a key Original Trilogy character, and the Original Trilogy has been put on a pedestal by the fan-base (a significant target market for any new Star Wars venture).

I don't pretend to know all of the reasons for the delays, but you will understand from my choice of avatar / forum name, that I took an interest in them. One of the last reasons for the project being delayed was the TV show Mandalorian. IIRC, they'd got as far as being on location with principal photography being about to begin on a show called Kenobi, but production had to suddenly stop.

The reason production was halted was that the plot line for their show was too similar to that used in the Mandalorian re "the child", so significant re-writes would be required. One of the unintended consequences of strict secrecy around Star Wars projects is that different parts of an organisation don't know what colleagues are doing.

We have one more episode left in this show, and I'm still looking forward to it, but I do understand your point of view @kramerdude
 
Binging on this for the second time. One of the best shows I've ever watched.

FNL.jpg
 
***SPOILERS*** Been watching Obi Wan as a lifelong fan. Very disappointed. The acting from Mcgregor is good, as well as little Leia. The third sister not so much. Seems very out of place. And no way Vader wouldn’t have erased her early with her errors. Also, for me, it really throws off the classic storyline of when Vader/Obi Wan meet up on the Death Star after thirty years and “now, I am the master “. As well as Leia “years ago you served my father in the clone wars“ as opposed to the new storyline “years ago you rescued me from kidnappers, used the force to save me and we escaped Vader and the empire together “. I think they could’ve gone many ways instead of changing the known and loved history. Was hoping for better with this one, but maybe in the last episode it will polish up a little more.

I agree however I am a little more harsh on the show. As a life long Star Wars fan, this is an absolute crap show. The only redeeming item to me is McGregor. The whole chase scenes in the first two episodes, the third sister, Darth Vader, and let's not forget the snow speeder scene. This show has been crap and I am so disappointed with it. It feels like those in charge, have no freaking idea on what makes a show good. I hate to say it, but Mando added something different to the universe and it showed by the reception it received. Utter crap and I can't tell you how disappointed I am in the show right now in this series.
 
I miss Matthew McConaughey in the role... my wife watched the series and I watched parts of it... didn't grab me though.

That is the big part, even when I read his character in the books, Matthew is all I hear. This guy did grow on me though as the series progressed. I ended up liking him, not as much as Matthew, but I still liked him.
 
I agree however I am a little more harsh on the show. As a life long Star Wars fan, this is an absolute crap show. The only redeeming item to me is McGregor. The whole chase scenes in the first two episodes, the third sister, Darth Vader, and let's not forget the snow speeder scene. This show has been crap and I am so disappointed with it. It feels like those in charge, have no freaking idea on what makes a show good. I hate to say it, but Mando added something different to the universe and it showed by the reception it received. Utter crap and I can't tell you how disappointed I am in the show right now in this series.
Agreed. I can't get over the fact of Obi-Wan fighting Vader and being that badly beaten. 10 year gap? Sure, but it just means that the Death Star reunion was washed down.
 
  • Like
Reactions: rhett7660
I get that, but I still like it.

These inconsistencies are the latest in a long line of these things, from a New Hope, and particularly in relation to the Obi-Wan Kenobi character.

Despite George Lucas's claims he always had a trilogy/saga in mind (and he hasn't been consistent about that) the first movie was always intended as a one-off. It was a science fiction version of Kurosawa's film "A Hidden Fortress". The extraordinary success of Star Wars (A New Hope) meant that the studios, and Lucas were interested in more.

For all of the subsequent movies, Lucas had co-writers that wrote, much (if not almost all) of the stories. When it came to the prequels, and there were writing meetings, and the writing teams wanted to know about Jedi and the Force, Lucas regularly pointed to Obi-Wan Kenobi's character in New Hope. On a side note, I don't think Sir Alec Guiness ever got enough credit for making Lucas's rather clunky dialogue and improbable space religion so believable.

There are some obvious illogical consequences from this reference to the original movie character. The uniform of the jedi in the prequels is based on his costume in that movie. With where the Star Wars universe has ended up, by the time of the events of A New Hope, Kenobi, in particular, and all other jedi more generally, are in hiding having been hunted down (whether by Order 66 in the prequels or otherwise). Meanwhile on Tattooine, one of the most wanted men in the galaxy, Obi-Wan Kenobi is going about his daily business dressed in the uniform / robes that he and his fellow jedi, were galaxy famous for wearing. What is worse, is that given the events in the prequels, he was a galactic hero, and would have been famous, and yet on Tatooine, without any change in his appearance (other than getting older) he's just "Old Ben Kenobi".

There are more.

In the confrontation with Vader on the Death Star, and the dialogue you mentioned, "When I left you I was but a boy. Now I am the master", Obi Wan responds "only a master of evil, Darth". Darth was clearly a first name at that point. In later movies and novels, every Sith was called Darth this or Darth that. A justification was later made for this in canon, that "Darth" was a sith title, but Vader already had a title. He was Lord Vader. It was lazy writing, but it's stuck.

I could go on, but I won't.

Star Wars was deeply damaged, in my view, by The Last Jedi, and despite JJ Abrams best efforts in the last film, it remains deeply damaged. However, the writers of the Mandalorian and the other recent spin-offs have made solid positive contributions to the franchise. I think Kenobi is a positive contribution as well.

That's not to say it is perfect. Rather than cannibalising A New Hope further, I would have much preferred them to embrace it and honour the content. There is still hope for that.

Leia may yet be told by Bail Organa that the reason he asked for Kenobi's help is that Kenobi had served him very effectively during the Clone Wars. We've seen otherwise in the movies, but to paraphrase Kenobi in RotJ, the truth often depends on one's point of view, and that would then be Leia's.

Another, more practical matter to consider, is that there were plans for a Kenobi movie / mini-series for a long time, more than 10 years, IIRC. Scripts were written, McGregor was contracted and agreed, but they have been repeatedly put on hold for one reason or another. Some of these reasons include not wanting to draw attention away from / undermine Episodes 7, 8 or 9, as Kenobi was a key Original Trilogy character, and the Original Trilogy has been put on a pedestal by the fan-base (a significant target market for any new Star Wars venture).

I don't pretend to know all of the reasons for the delays, but you will understand from my choice of avatar / forum name, that I took an interest in them. One of the last reasons for the project being delayed was the TV show Mandalorian. IIRC, they'd got as far as being on location with principal photography being about to begin on a show called Kenobi, but production had to suddenly stop.

The reason production was halted was that the plot line for their show was too similar to that used in the Mandalorian re "the child", so significant re-writes would be required. One of the unintended consequences of strict secrecy around Star Wars projects is that different parts of an organisation don't know what colleagues are doing.

We have one more episode left in this show, and I'm still looking forward to it, but I do understand your point of view @kramerdude
Meh the points you make about a New Hope are interesting, but really they don't deter from the movie at all. They are just interesting sub bits.

The thing with movies/tv shows they still require well told stories, and great characters (and actors who deliver), which Lucas provided, and being a visual media heightened that with great direction and set pieces all well put together to complete the package. Anyone who isn't so interesting in scrutinizing the movie will still be able to tell you it is a great movie. Because they where engaged with the story and characters.

Moving onto more modern stuff like Obi Wan and the new Star Wars movies etc. These seems to be created from people who think things like "wouldn't this be cool if we did this" and with little effort in the story or how it works with the characters. Plus heavy use of action and effects. Most of which isn't necessary and distracts from the story. The other problem with so much action there isn't enough time to relish the goals of the character, they did something, then it's off to the next action point. This impacts the story quite a bit as your brain is try to figure out how this all relates, but there isn't time to process it as you are off to the next "thing". So the story get's lost in the mush and the audience tries to figure out what is important here. But in the end it's a steaming pile of nothing.

I'm kinda glad they are trying new stuff but the execution seems all wrong. In the end it's entertainment if you enjoy it great, but it could be better as we've seen already.
 
  • Like
Reactions: kramerdude
Meh the points you make about a New Hope are interesting, but really they don't deter from the movie at all. They are just interesting sub bits.

The thing with movies/tv shows they still require well told stories, and great characters (and actors who deliver), which Lucas provided, and being a visual media heightened that with great direction and set pieces all well put together to complete the package. Anyone who isn't so interesting in scrutinizing the movie will still be able to tell you it is a great movie. Because they where engaged with the story and characters.

Moving onto more modern stuff like Obi Wan and the new Star Wars movies etc. These seems to be created from people who think things like "wouldn't this be cool if we did this" and with little effort in the story or how it works with the characters. Plus heavy use of action and effects. Most of which isn't necessary and distracts from the story. The other problem with so much action there isn't enough time to relish the goals of the character, they did something, then it's off to the next action point. This impacts the story quite a bit as your brain is try to figure out how this all relates, but there isn't time to process it as you are off to the next "thing". So the story get's lost in the mush and the audience tries to figure out what is important here. But in the end it's a steaming pile of nothing.

I'm kinda glad they are trying new stuff but the execution seems all wrong. In the end it's entertainment if you enjoy it great, but it could be better as we've seen already.

The issue isn't the quality of the stuff being produced, it's the unrealistic expectations of the people watching, who get angry when the prodcuers don't do Star Wars (or Star Trek) EXACTLY the way they would have done it. People act like the producers stole your girlfriend or something.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Obi Wan Kenobi
The issue isn't the quality of the stuff being produced, it's the unrealistic expectations of the people watching, who get angry when the prodcuers don't do Star Wars (or Star Trek) EXACTLY the way they would have done it. People act like the producers stole your girlfriend or something.

I don't look at like that... I looked at each series or movie on its own and this one is utter crap IMHO. I love Mando... to me that one is done right in the Star Wars Universe. For Kathleen Kennedy to come out after the let down and backlash of the last three movies to say something along the lines, we don't have any ideas left for the movies. Um have you seen how big the Star Wars universe is? Good god man, there is a whole expanded universe, books and comics, they could take from!

Boba Fett was another show that wasn't good. Had pieces and nice throw backs, but the show overall was bad. Rogue One... That was done right on so many levels!

I for one, would like to see Kathleen gone... She has had a nice run, now lets hand it all over to Jon and Dave. :)
 
  • Like
Reactions: kramerdude
The issue isn't the quality of the stuff being produced, it's the unrealistic expectations of the people watching, who get angry when the prodcuers don't do Star Wars (or Star Trek) EXACTLY the way they would have done it. People act like the producers stole your girlfriend or something.
It's not the audiences fault for bad writing and execution. That's on the creators of this content. But I'm sure there are plenty of people speaking up like they know how to produce stuff.
It's more complex then that and I've outlined an example of it in my previous message, there are plenty more.
 
  • Like
Reactions: rhett7660
It's not the audiences fault for bad writing and execution. That's on the creators of this content. But I'm sure there are plenty of people speaking up like they know how to produce stuff.
It's more complex then that and I've outlined an example of it in my previous message, there are plenty more.

Bad writing and execution, nailed it. That pretty much sums up the crap that has been spewed out in the name of Star Wars.
 
  • Like
Reactions: orionquest
The ten-year-old in me that saw the original Star Wars in 1977 totally enjoyed Kenobi...

Fifty-five-year-old me turned a blind eye to plot inconsistencies, sometimes it is just nice to see things "brought to life" (especially relevent when watching the MCU stuff)...!

As for the topic of the thread, I am, once again, watching Agents of SHIELD...! ;^p
 
Episode 6 of Kenobi turned out to be a redeemer? Thoughts?
*Spoilers* Not in my opinion. Yes, the light saber duel was cool, but once again, Obi Wan has the opportunity to kill Vader and spare millions of lives but does not. I get that the Jedi are supposed to be forgiving and show mercy, but to allow the mass murderer with the highest body count in the galaxy to live twice changes my opinion of Obi Wan from the original trilogy.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Rafterman
*Spoilers* Not in my opinion. Yes, the light saber duel was cool, but once again, Obi Wan has the opportunity to kill Vader and spare millions of lives but does not. I get that the Jedi are supposed to be forgiving and show mercy, but to allow the mass murderer with the highest body count in the galaxy to live twice changes my opinion of Obi Wan from the original trilogy.
I want to agree, but then you'd have to remake Episodes 4-9.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Obi Wan Kenobi
*Spoilers* Not in my opinion. Yes, the light saber duel was cool, but once again, Obi Wan has the opportunity to kill Vader and spare millions of lives but does not. I get that the Jedi are supposed to be forgiving and show mercy, but to allow the mass murderer with the highest body count in the galaxy to live twice changes my opinion of Obi Wan from the original trilogy.

Ahh, Obi-Wan Kenobi is saving that kill to a more grown up Princess. Wait and see 😂
 
Finished Obi-Wan Kenobi yesterday. It's crap, pointless and never should have been green-lit. McGregor and Christensen want a second season... what a surprise, two failed actors looking for money. Let's hope it never happens and they rather try "Star Wars - Jar Jar Binks" before they jump onto another season of this.
 
  • Like
Reactions: orionquest
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.