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960design

macrumors 68040
Apr 17, 2012
3,795
1,674
Destin, FL
I drove it at NCM Motorsports park. Absolute blast. Looks amazing and the sound of the engine is to die for.

I am extremely late to the game. I am on 3 dealers waitlist hoping my number gets called around 2026-2028 if it gets called at all. I refuse to pay the current ridiculous ADM's on the car. The 3 dealers waitlist's are MSRP. If the ADM's come down( and they will because the Z06 is a massed produced car) to something reasonable( $10-$15K over), I may consider it. But same time I need to be able to order the car the way I want it.

We will see if it is in my cards.
I literally hear you! The upshifts are insane, you can feel them through the ground at the race track.
The ADM is what pushed me to a Tesla away from a Blackwing. Thought I would drive the Tesla for 3 years and trade it in (hopefully the car manufactures will get their act together and dealerships stop attempting to gouge everyone by then). Not sad one bit. I appreciate the not so gentle nudge into a Tesla. If the dealerships are still weird in 2025/26, I might just pick up a Model S plaid or if I am really lucky the new Roadster.
 

Apple fanboy

macrumors Ivy Bridge
Feb 21, 2012
56,996
56,021
Behind the Lens, UK
Even that is too much for an MG. It’s probably in the advanced stages of corrosion underneath if it’s a 2020 model.
Based on British MG or Chinese MG? I don’t remember either being great!

To be fair it wouldn’t be my choice either, but his needs and budget are different to mine. And as he lives in London he will save a fortune on congestion charges as well as petrol.
 

The-Real-Deal82

macrumors P6
Jan 17, 2013
17,314
25,463
Wales, United Kingdom
Is there train service between the two locations? I’d have preferred to avoid the drive altogether, take a train the night before, enjoy a good night’s sleep and breakfast, and arrive at the meeting refreshed and fully alert. Then train home. But that’s me, and my assumptions that the train service exists.

I assume you’re commenting about my post? It’s about 7 hours each way by train with 4 changes. It’s highly likely some services on the way are cancelled too so it’s an absolute nightmare by train. I needed to get there and back within a day as I had other commitments. I could have stayed overnight if I’d wanted to but I had to get back. It was a long long day and glad I could do it on less than a tank of fuel that the company paid for anyway. Got a £116 profit from the mileage too. Maybe in the future I can do this sort of thing in an EV with the same type of performance, things are getting better all the time.
 

The-Real-Deal82

macrumors P6
Jan 17, 2013
17,314
25,463
Wales, United Kingdom
Based on British MG or Chinese MG? I don’t remember either being great!

To be fair it wouldn’t be my choice either, but his needs and budget are different to mine. And as he lives in London he will save a fortune on congestion charges as well as petrol.
Both have a reputation for being rust buckets I think lol.

They are certainly cheap and there are plenty on the roads (non-EV's more so). It never seems to stop raining where I live so I dread to think how long one would last.
 

Apple fanboy

macrumors Ivy Bridge
Feb 21, 2012
56,996
56,021
Behind the Lens, UK
Both have a reputation for being rust buckets I think lol.

They are certainly cheap and there are plenty on the roads (non-EV's more so). It never seems to stop raining where I live so I dread to think how long one would last.
Maybe they’ve improved, but who knows. Not much to rust on my car except the brakes.
The rain you get just flows down to where I live anyway!
 
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JT2002TJ

macrumors 68020
Nov 7, 2013
2,068
1,397
One of the people in our housing community got an EV - Ford Mustang. I have to say that it looks a lot nicer in person than in pictures. This housing community has 180 households and isn't the best for EV charging.

It was charging in his driveway and it looks like he drilled a hole through a glass slider in the basement to run a cable to the charging port. I would have expected an electrician to put in another circuit along with a port in the wall to provide power for a cleaner, professional look. I do not know if this is 120v or 240v as I suppose it's possible that the cord just runs to a standard AC outlet.

It will be interesting to see what happens in the winter as we have very cold temps, freezing rain and we can get a lot of snow. This person does not have a garage.

I'm mildly curious if this is even up to building codes.

And I really hope that the person isn't a renter.

I assume your neighborhood is one without gas utility, and it does have gas, it isn't used for dryers? If so, it is likely that he ran the cable to his existing dryer outlet.

I have a tesla wall charger and even with my 30% battery usage daily (26 miles - 3 hours driving with 10 hours parked outdoors with sentry mode on) it only takes me 2.5 hours to recoup that 30%. My setup is running on a 50 amp circuit, the added cost to got to 60 amps just wasn't worth it to me. If I had a dryer in range of my garage, it would have been a cheap alternative since my Tesla came with a mobile charger. In reality, my wall charger sits idle most of the time, and even with a young kid our dryer use wouldn't really affect my charging schedule.
 

panjandrum

macrumors 6502a
Sep 22, 2009
732
919
United States
The current EVs on the market are not supposed to replace the current Hybrids on the market. Hybrids exist, in almost every line (sedan, SUV, Trucks). There even are battery supplemented full ICE vehicles which is another form of Hybrid (BWM e's, FCA's e models). There are plenty of well established Hybrids out there.

Eventually EV technology and charging networks will be good enough to fill the void between ICE/Hybrids and current EVs. But even as an EV owner, I can admit we aren't there yet for everyone. A lot more people can benefit from full EV than are ready to admit it, but still are a subset of people that need ICE/Hybrids.

Just like when Hybrids started, it took time to get from where they were to where they are, EVs need the same. It's just going to take time. You have to start somewhere.

Sure, those are somewhat valid points, I simply think a well-thought-out approach would have been far more beneficial.

Let's just take a hypothetical, since we don't really know what would have happened: If well-designed series hybrids with about 30-40 miles of pure electric range and the ability to charge that much smaller battery in a single night with a simple 220 outlet instead of an expensive home-charging system had been the focus, rather than pure electrics, then nearly every single (legitimate) negative aspect of pure-electrics would have been addressed. They still would have been a bit more expensive, but that's just about the only downside. How many more people would have purchased them? My daughter still owns and drives a 2002 Prius, and unlike electrics there were really no actual downsides, just a lot of FUD from people who didn't understand the technology. Same is true of series hybrids. But let's say, to be extremely conservative, that the uptake on series hybrids would have been just double what it has been for pure electrics. Would that have actually been better for the environment than the push to pure electrics? (Probably, but I don't know for sure.) If more companies had therefore jumped on board early, would the rush to better series-hybrids have led quickly to better tech and even quicker uptake of the new tech, ultimately leading to far better outcomes in terms of automotive pollution than we have seen with the push to pure electrics? Probably, but again because the industry and world just screamed "PURE ELECTRIC" and hopped on-board the hype we will may never know the answer.

Even a year or two of concerted research first would been great, but let's face it, as a species we are pretty bad at planning and much better a this:

kermit-freaking-out.gif
 

Apple fanboy

macrumors Ivy Bridge
Feb 21, 2012
56,996
56,021
Behind the Lens, UK
Sure, those are somewhat valid points, I simply think a well-thought-out approach would have been far more beneficial.

Let's just take a hypothetical, since we don't really know what would have happened: If well-designed series hybrids with about 30-40 miles of pure electric range and the ability to charge that much smaller battery in a single night with a simple 220 outlet instead of an expensive home-charging system had been the focus, rather than pure electrics, then nearly every single (legitimate) negative aspect of pure-electrics would have been addressed. They still would have been a bit more expensive, but that's just about the only downside. How many more people would have purchased them? My daughter still owns and drives a 2002 Prius, and unlike electrics there were really no actual downsides, just a lot of FUD from people who didn't understand the technology. Same is true of series hybrids. But let's say, to be extremely conservative, that the uptake on series hybrids would have been just double what it has been for pure electrics. Would that have actually been better for the environment than the push to pure electrics? (Probably, but I don't know for sure.) If more companies had therefore jumped on board early, would the rush to better series-hybrids have led quickly to better tech and even quicker uptake of the new tech, ultimately leading to far better outcomes in terms of automotive pollution than we have seen with the push to pure electrics? Probably, but again because the industry and world just screamed "PURE ELECTRIC" and hopped on-board the hype we will may never know the answer.

Even a year or two of concerted research first would been great, but let's face it, as a species we are pretty bad at planning and much better a this:

View attachment 2189816
In Europe at least plug in hybrids do exist. However I did read somewhere one of the problems with them is that people could never be bothered to charge them, so the battery part becomes a dead weight. Personally I think that’s madness.
But that’s why most hybrids now are self charging.
Just like the ICE market, EV’s are not going to be one size fits all. There will be multiple solutions for different user cases.
 

Apple fanboy

macrumors Ivy Bridge
Feb 21, 2012
56,996
56,021
Behind the Lens, UK
I assume your neighborhood is one without gas utility, and it does have gas, it isn't used for dryers? If so, it is likely that he ran the cable to his existing dryer outlet.

I have a tesla wall charger and even with my 30% battery usage daily (26 miles - 3 hours driving with 10 hours parked outdoors with sentry mode on) it only takes me 2.5 hours to recoup that 30%. My setup is running on a 50 amp circuit, the added cost to got to 60 amps just wasn't worth it to me. If I had a dryer in range of my garage, it would have been a cheap alternative since my Tesla came with a mobile charger. In reality, my wall charger sits idle most of the time, and even with a young kid our dryer use wouldn't really affect my charging schedule.
Interesting. I like the idea of sentry mode. My dash cam does something similar, but it’s only two cameras.
How much battery does that drain? I’d have thought not much.
 

JT2002TJ

macrumors 68020
Nov 7, 2013
2,068
1,397
Sure, those are somewhat valid points, I simply think a well-thought-out approach would have been far more beneficial.

Let's just take a hypothetical, since we don't really know what would have happened: [/b]If well-designed series hybrids with about 30-40 miles of pure electric range and the ability to charge that much smaller battery in a single night with a simple 220 outlet instead of an expensive home-charging system had been the focus[/b], rather than pure electrics, then nearly every single (legitimate) negative aspect of pure-electrics would have been addressed. They still would have been a bit more expensive, but that's just about the only downside. How many more people would have purchased them? My daughter still owns and drives a 2002 Prius, and unlike electrics there were really no actual downsides, just a lot of FUD from people who didn't understand the technology. Same is true of series hybrids. But let's say, to be extremely conservative, that the uptake on series hybrids would have been just double what it has been for pure electrics. Would that have actually been better for the environment than the push to pure electrics? (Probably, but I don't know for sure.) If more companies had therefore jumped on board early, would the rush to better series-hybrids have led quickly to better tech and even quicker uptake of the new tech, ultimately leading to far better outcomes in terms of automotive pollution than we have seen with the push to pure electrics? Probably, but again because the industry and world just screamed "PURE ELECTRIC" and hopped on-board the hype we will may never know the answer.

Sorry, I'm not sure I understand this. Isn't what Toyota's Prime is? Doesn't Toyota have the ability to charge on a 16 amp 220v charging cable, with a range of 39-44 mp-charge and a total range of 550-600 miles? It comes with a 110V charging cable, but you can purchase a 220V charging cable.


Range specs:

Plug in ICE's do the same, supplement/extend ICE range using plug in battery, or like FCA, you can use all battery for around town 20+ miles. Also can be plugged in and charged overnight.


I may be misunderstanding the point you were making.
 

pshufd

macrumors G4
Oct 24, 2013
10,146
14,573
New Hampshire
I assume your neighborhood is one without gas utility, and it does have gas, it isn't used for dryers? If so, it is likely that he ran the cable to his existing dryer outlet.

I have a tesla wall charger and even with my 30% battery usage daily (26 miles - 3 hours driving with 10 hours parked outdoors with sentry mode on) it only takes me 2.5 hours to recoup that 30%. My setup is running on a 50 amp circuit, the added cost to got to 60 amps just wasn't worth it to me. If I had a dryer in range of my garage, it would have been a cheap alternative since my Tesla came with a mobile charger. In reality, my wall charger sits idle most of the time, and even with a young kid our dryer use wouldn't really affect my charging schedule.

We do have natural gas for cooking, drier, water heater. So he could theoretically run it from there. There should be outlets closer to the slider though if his unit is the same as mine. I use the outlet near the exit for running power outside if I want to add air to my tires or use the vacuum cleaner outside. I don't mind doing that temporarily as I'll remove the extension cord when not in use.

I just think that it's not a good idea to run a cable along the floor as a permanent solution to provide power outside.

This guy doesn't have a garage. He has a finished basement.

I don't have any issues with the amount of power - it's running a power cord from outlets through a hole in a slider to outside.
 

JT2002TJ

macrumors 68020
Nov 7, 2013
2,068
1,397
Interesting. I like the idea of sentry mode. My dash cam does something similar, but it’s only two cameras.
How much battery does that drain? I’d have thought not much.

Sentry mode uses all cameras (but the B-pillar cameras are not viewable, but I've heard that Tesla can access these feeds), and stores them on USB drive. Some have said it uses about up to 1% per hour. It really depends on how much traffic there is around your vehicle. When I left my vehicle at my tinting shop, in 12 hours it only dropped 1%-3%, but he parked it in his shop, so there were 0 events.

Once the car drops below 20% sentry mode will shut off.

My car is always in sentry mode except when home and parked in my garage.
 
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JT2002TJ

macrumors 68020
Nov 7, 2013
2,068
1,397
We do have natural gas for cooking, drier, water heater. So he could theoretically run it from there. There should be outlets closer to the slider though if his unit is the same as mine. I use the outlet near the exit for running power outside if I want to add air to my tires or use the vacuum cleaner outside. I don't mind doing that temporarily as I'll remove the extension cord when not in use.

I just think that it's not a good idea to run a cable along the floor as a permanent solution to provide power outside.

This guy doesn't have a garage. He has a finished basement.

I don't have any issues with the amount of power - it's running a power cord from outlets through a hole in a slider to outside.

I'm assuming he is running a 220V charging cable to a 220V outlet, not to the 110V outlet that it sounds like you are talking about that is closer...

I know for Tesla's at least 110V 15 amp will only charge 3 miles per hour. So an typical overnight would only result in <40 miles of range.
 

pshufd

macrumors G4
Oct 24, 2013
10,146
14,573
New Hampshire
I'm assuming he is running a 220V charging cable to a 220V outlet, not to the 110V outlet that it sounds like you are talking about that is closer...

I know for Tesla's at least 110V 15 amp will only charge 3 miles per hour. So an typical overnight would only result in <40 miles of range.

I'm not sure. I just had a look at the power outlets for the washer and dryer and they look like standard 110 volt outlets. I didn't pull out the plugs to check.

Still, it would be far cleaner to add a circuit that runs from the breaker box through the exterior wall and then outside.

I do not know if the person owns or rents the place.
 

JT2002TJ

macrumors 68020
Nov 7, 2013
2,068
1,397
I'm not sure. I just had a look at the power outlets for the washer and dryer and they look like standard 110 volt outlets. I didn't pull out the plugs to check.

Still, it would be far cleaner to add a circuit that runs from the breaker box through the exterior wall and then outside.

I do not know if the person owns or rents the place.

I agree, and if it is a Tesla, the wall charger is weatherproof and can be locked to the vehicle VIN (up to 10), so they wouldn't have to worry about some random EV person stealing juice.

It is also expensive to setup 220V home charges (especially right now, wire prices are through the roof), and it is hard to get away with avoiding permits if installed outdoors (if permits are required, and they are trying to bypass it).

Are there any hosing associations that impose weird rules on your neighborhood?
 

Apple fanboy

macrumors Ivy Bridge
Feb 21, 2012
56,996
56,021
Behind the Lens, UK
I agree, and if it is a Tesla, the wall charger is weatherproof and can be locked to the vehicle VIN (up to 10), so they wouldn't have to worry about some random EV person stealing juice.

It is also expensive to setup 220V home charges (especially right now, wire prices are through the roof), and it is hard to get away with avoiding permits if installed outdoors (if permits are required, and they are trying to bypass it).

Are there any hosing associations that impose weird rules on your neighborhood?
Most EV chargers can be set up with a passcode or RF card so it can’t be used by anyone else.
 

pshufd

macrumors G4
Oct 24, 2013
10,146
14,573
New Hampshire
I agree, and if it is a Tesla, the wall charger is weatherproof and can be locked to the vehicle VIN (up to 10), so they wouldn't have to worry about some random EV person stealing juice.

It is also expensive to setup 220V home charges (especially right now, wire prices are through the roof), and it is hard to get away with avoiding permits if installed outdoors (if permits are required, and they are trying to bypass it).

Are there any hosing associations that impose weird rules on your neighborhood?

Yup. We have a million rules. I think that the someone from the fire department drives through checking the homes as we've received notices from the management company about things like required minimum distance for gas grilles. We are required to upgrade some things to code from time to time and provide receipts for the work as well. Some changes require the building inspector to come inside to verify the work. I do not think that licensed contractors will do stuff off the books but people do just hire a guy with a pickup truck to do handyman work.

I agree on wiring costs. We got a quote to rewire an old house to bring it up to code and it was $70K. We have not made a decision on what to do with that house.
 

pshufd

macrumors G4
Oct 24, 2013
10,146
14,573
New Hampshire
Most EV chargers can be set up with a passcode or RF card so it can’t be used by anyone else.

I don't think that would be a problem. I'm unaware of any robberies or violent crime in the neighborhood for the past 35 years and there are people walking dogs, or just walking, seemingly all the time. I see everything because I'm a runner.
 

Apple fanboy

macrumors Ivy Bridge
Feb 21, 2012
56,996
56,021
Behind the Lens, UK
I don't think that would be a problem. I'm unaware of any robberies or violent crime in the neighborhood for the past 35 years and there are people walking dogs, or just walking, seemingly all the time. I see everything because I'm a runner.
Same here tbh. It’s rare one of us isn’t in, and living in the country you would have to be pretty bold to drive down our private driveway onto the front and plug in.
 

The-Real-Deal82

macrumors P6
Jan 17, 2013
17,314
25,463
Wales, United Kingdom
The current EVs on the market are not supposed to replace the current Hybrids on the market. Hybrids exist, in almost every line (sedan, SUV, Trucks). There even are battery supplemented full ICE vehicles which is another form of Hybrid (BWM e's, FCA's e models). There are plenty of well established Hybrids out there.

Eventually EV technology and charging networks will be good enough to fill the void between ICE/Hybrids and current EVs. But even as an EV owner, I can admit we aren't there yet for everyone. A lot more people can benefit from full EV than are ready to admit it, but still are a subset of people that need ICE/Hybrids.

Just like when Hybrids started, it took time to get from where they were to where they are, EVs need the same. It's just going to take time. You have to start somewhere.

New Hybrids are only going to be sold until 2030 in Europe as they are on the agenda to be phased out of production beyond that with every other ICE vehicle. I plan to get a hybrid before then as my step to a full EV. For me it would give me a taste of getting used to an EV but provide me with a backup for longer journeys that I have to make a couple of times a month.
 
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Apple fanboy

macrumors Ivy Bridge
Feb 21, 2012
56,996
56,021
Behind the Lens, UK
New Hybrids are only going to be sold until 2030 in Europe as they are on the agenda to be phased out of production beyond that with every other ICE vehicle. I plan to get a hybrid before then as my step to a full EV. For me it would give me a taste of getting used to an EV but provide me with a backup for longer journeys that I have to make a couple of times a month.
With that in mind do you think the ICE and hybrid prices will go up or down as 2030 approaches? I can see an argument for both cases!
 

The-Real-Deal82

macrumors P6
Jan 17, 2013
17,314
25,463
Wales, United Kingdom
With that in mind do you think the ICE and hybrid prices will go up or down as 2030 approaches? I can see an argument for both cases!

I think it depends on whether fuel prices will be increased to astronomical levels and whether manufacturers release EV’s that compete on specs/price with outgoing ICE vehicles closer to the time.

I think the likes of BMW M’s, Audi S & RS’s and other high end ICE performance cars will rocket in value personally as people will either want a classic or to have their fill before they are gone. I have an Audi A4 with very low mileage and want to keep that going for as many years as I can. My wife is due to change hers soon so fancies trying a hybrid, either BMW, Audi or Range Rover (I’m not keen on the last one).
 

Apple fanboy

macrumors Ivy Bridge
Feb 21, 2012
56,996
56,021
Behind the Lens, UK
I think it depends on whether fuel prices will be increased to astronomical levels and whether manufacturers release EV’s that compete on specs/price with outgoing ICE vehicles closer to the time.

I think the likes of BMW M’s, Audi S & RS’s and other high end ICE performance cars will rocket in value personally as people will either want a classic or to have their fill before they are gone. I have an Audi A4 with very low mileage and want to keep that going for as many years as I can. My wife is due to change hers soon so fancies trying a hybrid, either BMW, Audi or Range Rover (I’m not keen on the last one).
I wouldn’t go for a Range Rover either. They are popular where I live, but they cost a fortune to run etc.
BMW’s are nice! But I’ve not really looked at their hybrids.
 
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