Who has or is planning to get an electric car / EV Talk

[Apple fanboy]

Huge difference based on “different” priorities. 🤔

And the lobbyists we hear so much about! But best move on from that!

 

[poorcody]

I’m going to assume that setting aside required infrastructure improvements like millions of charging stations, if for some reason everyone switched to 100% EVs tomorrow we would come out ahead but I can’t say how far ahead, recognizing that our electric production mostly relies on fossil fuels.

For the record, it has been shown that even if the grid was 100% powered by coal, it would still be better to have an EV fleet than ICE from an environmental perspective. But I take your point that the difference would be less so.

This might be a good arguments for the ultimate answer to power production just around the corner, that which is described as safe nuclear power production.

As of now "safe" nuclear power is a marketing term like "clean" coal (i.e. it doesn't exist). But TerraPower is doing trials soon so fingers crossed (it should be "safer" but not necessarily "safe"). But don't forget one of the problems with nuclear is that it is now the most expensive form of power (source) and rising:

 

[pshufd]

For the record, it has been shown that even if the grid was 100% powered by coal, it would still be better to have an EV fleet than ICE from an environmental perspective. But I take your point that the difference would be less so.


As of now "safe" nuclear power is a marketing term like "clean" coal (i.e. it doesn't exist). But TerraPower is doing trials soon so fingers crossed (it should be "safer" but not necessarily "safe"). But don't forget one of the problems with nuclear is that it is now the most expensive form of power (source) and rising:

Costs depend on geopolitics. People were screaming about natural gas and electricity prices in New England since last summer. Electric prices are dropping slowly as the NG generators buy futures contract and those have to roll over to lower prices. I do believe that our much higher prices were due to exporting it to Europe.

 

[Huntn]

Charging stations are a good idea where you are going to wait to do something else anyways. So having one at the gym makes sense. But there are gasoline stations all over the place in my area and I just fill up every 2-4 weeks depending on use.

I have one vehicle that gets 45-55 MPG with a 16 gallon tank and I get well over 500 miles on a tank. Small car, 8-speed automatic, and my approach to driving which is to never use the brakes if possible. The car has pretty good acceleration too - they could probably put in an even more fuel-efficient engine at the cost of acceleration.

Most American don't seem to care about gas mileage judging by the types of vehicles that they buy. My older car only gets about 33 MPH with a 16 gallon tank and I'd replace it if my dealer could ever get cars on their lot. They're talking 2024 at the earliest now.

It’s unbelievable how many trucks are sitting in the dealer lots waiting to be sold. My son just traded in his truck for a Prius. For a couple of decades I swore by the utility of owning a pickup truck, especially when they got king cabs but the mileage by any modern standard is horrid, making it hard to justify the utility for average people who are having trouble affording the feeding of the hulk. 🤔

 

[pshufd]

It’s unbelievable how many trucks are sitting in the dealer lots waiting to be sold. My son just traded in his truck for a Prius. For a couple of decades I swore by the utility of owning a pickup truck, especially when they got king cabs but the mileage by any modern standard is horrid, making it hard to justify the utility for average people who are having trouble affording the feeding of the hulk. 🤔

My dealer has a separate lot for trucks (it's a couple of streets away) so I don't really look at their truck inventory. I'll take a peek the next time I'm in the area. Home Depot has van or dump truck rentals for $20 for the first hour in my area if it's something done occasionally. I've borrowed pickups from friends in the past too.

The guy with the Ford Mustang also has a pickup truck (saw it in the driveway this morning). So another guy with an EV and an ICE vehicle. The ICE vehicle is gone during the day so that might be the daily driver for work.

 

[Huntn]

My dealer has a separate lot for trucks (it's a couple of streets away) so I don't really look at their truck inventory. I'll take a peek the next time I'm in the area. Home Depot has van or dump truck rentals for $20 for the first hour in my area if it's something done occasionally. I've borrowed pickups from friends in the past too.

The guy with the Ford Mustang also has a pickup truck (saw it in the driveway this morning). So another guy with an EV and an ICE vehicle. The ICE vehicle is gone during the day so that might be the daily driver for work.

I’ve got a trailer hitch on my Toyota Highlander. Wood studs- 2x4x8’ fit in it. 10 bags of 2’cu-foot of mulch will go in the back. If I am doing something more significant, like a load of flagstone, I’ll rent a U-Haul for $15 a day and return it the same day.

 

[poorcody]

Costs depend on geopolitics. People were screaming about natural gas and electricity prices in New England since last summer. Electric prices are dropping slowly as the NG generators buy futures contract and those have to roll over to lower prices. I do believe that our much higher prices were due to exporting it to Europe.

Yeah but that's all short- and medium-term noise. The long-term prices of energy are following the graphs from above.

It's easy to forget that gas and oil and such requires constant refueling, whereas wind and sun are fueling for free -- the cost is really just in the infrastructure. And eventually fossil fuels will become scarce. When the sun and wind are depleted, well it's all over then!

What I find intriguing about EVs is their flexibility in fueling and fuel storage: you can power the grid with many different sources of power, including any potential future ones. Even battery-powered cars can evolve their storage type (e.g. new types of batteries) over time without replacing the infrastructure. That's why I think they have a bright future.

 

[pshufd]

It's easy to forget that gas and oil and such requires constant refueling, whereas wind and sun are fueling for free -- the cost is really just in the infrastructure. And eventually fossil fuels will become scarce. When the sun and wind are depleted, well it's all over then!

What I find intriguing about EVs is their flexibility in fueling and fuel storage: you can power the grid with many different sources of power, including any potential future ones. Even battery-powered cars can evolve their storage type (e.g. new types of batteries) over time without replacing the infrastructure. That's why I think they have a bright future.

I don't think that anyone forgets the aspect of capital costs vs maintenance costs. That's why I'd love a windmill and solar farm. I would just need to buy a place with some land to do that. The idea of not having to pay for fuel is a holy grail. I'd want wind + solar because my area isn't great for solar and I'd need batteries or a backup generator for when these aren't working.

 

[wilsonlaidlaw]

I have a 900 mile journey twice a year to and from the UK to my house in the south of France. It would be a major pain to do that in an electric car, waiting for it to recharge every 200/250 miles but I wanted the ability to do all my short journeys on electric. That is why I decided to go for a plug in hybrid. At the end of 2017, I bought a new Porsche Panamera 4-E hybrid, which was an uncompleted purchase by a footballer. I had previously put one on order but due to the change to WLTP consumption rules at the beginning of 2018, there was an additional 4 month delay in delivery. I had already sold my Porsche 997 Turbo S, so was reluctant to wait that long. Also I was able to strike a very good deal with my local Porsche dealer, getting around 7% off the sticker price for the unsold car (I suspect they retained the deposit from the footballer, so could afford this level of discount0 and they agreed to buy back the large rear screens which I neither needed not wanted. It has not been as bulletproof reliable as my previous Porsches (all 911's) with a number of electronic and software glitches, particularly on the security tracking system. I get the impression that it is so complicated that the dealer mechanics really struggle with it. Otherwise I have been delighted with the hybrid aspect. Between October and May, when I am in the UK, I probably only buy fuel 2 or 3 times , with all my other journeys being either wholly or principally electric. I did a long term deal with Shell energy in Autumn 2021 where my nightime electricity only costs me £0.11 per kWH. On a long journey I get a fuel consumption rate of 30 miles per UK gallon or just over 8 litres/100km. This is good for a 470HP car weighing 2.2 tonnes. With increasingly policed speed limits in Europe, one just cannot use the performance potential of a 911 Turbo S, so I don't miss that. The hybrid accelerates from zero to 60mph/100kph in just over 4 seconds, which at my current age of 77, I find quite quick enough. The late 2023 version of the Panamera Hybrid will get a 21 or 22 kWH battery giving it around 45 miles electric range compared with the 30 miles of my older one (but a bit less in real life).

Wilson

 

[pshufd]

I have a 900 mile journey twice a year to and from the UK to my house in the south of France. It would be a major pain to do that in an electric car, waiting for it to recharge every 200/250 miles but I wanted the ability to do all my short journeys on electric. That is why I decided to go for a plug in hybrid. At the end of 2017, I bought a new Porsche Panamera 4-E hybrid, which was an uncompleted purchase by a footballer. I had previously put one on order but due to the change to WLTP consumption rules at the beginning of 2018, there was an additional 4 month delay in delivery. I had already sold my Porsche 997 Turbo S, so was reluctant to wait that long. Also I was able to strike a very good deal with my local Porsche dealer, getting around 7% off the sticker price for the unsold car (I suspect they retained the deposit from the footballer, so could afford this level of discount0 and they agreed to buy back the large rear screens which I neither needed not wanted. It has not been as bulletproof reliable as my previous Porsches (all 911's) with a number of electronic and software glitches, particularly on the security tracking system. I get the impression that it is so complicated that the dealer mechanics really struggle with it. Otherwise I have been delighted with the hybrid aspect. Between October and May, when I am in the UK, I probably only buy fuel 2 or 3 times , with all my other journeys being either wholly or principally electric. I did a long term deal with Shell energy in Autumn 2021 where my nightime electricity only costs me £0.11 per kWH. On a long journey I get a fuel consumption rate of 30 miles per UK gallon or just over 8 litres/100km. This is good for a 470HP car weighing 2.2 tonnes. With increasingly policed speed limits in Europe, one just cannot use the performance potential of a 911 Turbo S, so I don't miss that. The hybrid accelerates from zero to 60mph/100kph in just over 4 seconds, which at my current age of 77, I find quite quick enough. The late 2023 version of the Panamera Hybrid will get a 21 or 22 kWH battery giving it around 45 miles electric range compared with the 30 miles of my older one (but a bit less in real life).

Wilson

I'd love a Toyota version of that. Toyota Hybrids are more for efficiency rather than for doing almost all on electric. They would need bigger batteries to be a reasonable PIH.

 

[Apple fanboy]

It’s unbelievable how many trucks are sitting in the dealer lots waiting to be sold. My son just traded in his truck for a Prius. For a couple of decades I swore by the utility of owning a pickup truck, especially when they got king cabs but the mileage by any modern standard is horrid, making it hard to justify the utility for average people who are having trouble affording the feeding of the hulk. 🤔

Exactly why trucks have never been popular over here. Fuel costs have always been a lot more expensive this side of the pond. One of the reasons I switched to an EV.

 

[wilsonlaidlaw]

I'd love a Toyota version of that. Toyota Hybrids are more for efficiency rather than for doing almost all on electric. They would need bigger batteries to be a reasonable PIH.

Toyota's advertising really irritates me. Their non-plug-in hybrids are put forward as a benefit over plug in, being: "Self Charging Hybrids". They are not self charging, they use the gasoline motor to recharge their battery and are inferior in every way to plug in hybrids. They no longer sell their PHEV range in the UK. "Self Charging" would be like saying they have self rotating wheels i.e. a complete nonsense.

Wilson

 

[cyb3rdud3]

I have a 900 mile journey twice a year to and from the UK to my house in the south of France. It would be a major pain to do that in an electric car, waiting for it to recharge every 200/250 miles but I wanted the ability to do all my short journeys on electric. That is why I decided to go for a plug in hybrid. At the end of 2017, I bought a new Porsche Panamera 4-E hybrid, which was an uncompleted purchase by a footballer. I had previously put one on order but due to the change to WLTP consumption rules at the beginning of 2018, there was an additional 4 month delay in delivery. I had already sold my Porsche 997 Turbo S, so was reluctant to wait that long. Also I was able to strike a very good deal with my local Porsche dealer, getting around 7% off the sticker price for the unsold car (I suspect they retained the deposit from the footballer, so could afford this level of discount0 and they agreed to buy back the large rear screens which I neither needed not wanted. It has not been as bulletproof reliable as my previous Porsches (all 911's) with a number of electronic and software glitches, particularly on the security tracking system. I get the impression that it is so complicated that the dealer mechanics really struggle with it. Otherwise I have been delighted with the hybrid aspect. Between October and May, when I am in the UK, I probably only buy fuel 2 or 3 times , with all my other journeys being either wholly or principally electric. I did a long term deal with Shell energy in Autumn 2021 where my nightime electricity only costs me £0.11 per kWH. On a long journey I get a fuel consumption rate of 30 miles per UK gallon or just over 8 litres/100km. This is good for a 470HP car weighing 2.2 tonnes. With increasingly policed speed limits in Europe, one just cannot use the performance potential of a 911 Turbo S, so I don't miss that. The hybrid accelerates from zero to 60mph/100kph in just over 4 seconds, which at my current age of 77, I find quite quick enough. The late 2023 version of the Panamera Hybrid will get a 21 or 22 kWH battery giving it around 45 miles electric range compared with the 30 miles of my older one (but a bit less in real life).

Wilson

We got a villa in Sainte Maxime. No bother at all driving up and down electric. 👍 Nicely charging overlooking St Tropez

 

[monstermash]

EVs will get there eventually, IMHO. The geography and infrastructural differences between the USA and Europe explain a lot.

I may get there eventually too.

Good chance I'll be dead first though.

 

[monstermash]

This is an unattainable goal, and a higher standard than you have for ICE. Where have you ever been able to get gas for an ICE at any "restaurant, hotel, shopping center"?

Again, current EVs aren't for everyone, but still, you are setting standards higher than current ICEs. Most ICEs do NOT get 500 miles per tank. I have a 32 gallon tank in my Ram, and get 400 miles, my 2.0T Audi gets around 400 miles on 15 gallons, our last civic got 360 miles on about a 10 gallon tank.

Also Level 4 chargers will get you your full charge in 30 mins or less. They are expanding, but honestly, not quite there yet.

In reality, you are looking for a safety net that most people do not need 99% of the time. Most people drive <200 miles per day, around town, and if they are outside of a city, have the ability to charge at home for 2-3 hours at night (which is all you will need on a level 2 charger). The convenance of this, outweighs the inconvenience of extending one's road trips for charging.

There is no perfect solution, even with ICE, you have to drive to a gas station, deal with the elements and gas up 1x-2x per week (if you drive enough to complain about current EV ranges), at a cost that is 2x-3x of electricity. I drive home like I do every day; I walk by my rear corner as I go towards my garage inner door. I just have to grab the charging handle and plug it in, then as I walk by on my way out, unplug the handle and drive out. In the 3 months I've and my EV, I have saved HOURS by not having to go to my local BJs gas station, deal with the lines, or get up early on the weekend to gas up (I was gassing up 2x per week).

It's a different standard because gas station are everywhere and I can fill up my car and be on my way in 5 mins. A gas burner doesn't need to get 500 miles a tank when you can easily get more gas pretty much anywhere, and do so very quickly.

Besides that, you have the option of carrying extra gas too. I've carried as much as 20 gallons in cans tanks with me.

Anchorage to Fairbanks is about 365 miles. I stop once for gas, it takes 5 minutes. It's a long trip. I sure wouldn't want to extend it by having to stop for any length of time and twiddle my thumbs for a while so my car can charge up.

I don't care what works for 99% of people. I don't buy cars for them. I buy cars based on what I want or don't want...and what I don't want is an expensive car, let alone an expensive EV car. I have no interest in what others buy, nor do I try to convince them what car would work for them.

 

[monstermash]

Depends on where that 7-11 is. In my case Slurpie is only about 1/2 mile walk away. Would not take a car or train for it. But I would take a train to Boston or even Aarhus for a Slurpie.

That particular one is 2.5 miles round trip.

 

[Tagbert]

It's a different standard because gas station are everywhere and I can fill up my car and be on my way in 5 mins. A gas burner doesn't need to get 500 miles a tank when you can easily get more gas pretty much anywhere, and do so very quickly.

Besides that, you have the option of carrying extra gas too. I've carried as much as 20 gallons in cans tanks with me.

Anchorage to Fairbanks is about 365 miles. I stop once for gas, it takes 5 minutes. It's a long trip. I sure wouldn't want to extend it by having to stop for any length of time and twiddle my thumbs for a while so my car can charge up.

I don't care what works for 99% of people. I don't buy cars for them. I buy cars based on what I want or don't want...and what I don't want is an expensive car, let alone an expensive EV car. I have no interest in what others buy, nor do I try to convince them what car would work for them.

You must have a giant bladder and a steel butt. After driving that long, I need at least a few minutes out of the vehicle to take care of things and stretch out a little before getting back on the horse. 😊

 

[monstermash]

You must have a giant bladder and a steel butt. After driving that long, I new at least a few minutes out of the vehicle to take care of things and stretch out a little before getting back on the horse. 😊

You can save time by using the restroom while the car is filling with gas.

 

[Tagbert]

You can save time by using the restroom while the car is filling with gas.

Risky. Aren’t you supposed to stay with the pump to avoid possible over filling. It would usually take me a little more time to decompress after a long drive.

 

[monstermash]

Risky. Aren’t you supposed to with the pump to avoid possible over filling. It would usually take me a little more time to decompress after a long drive.

Worst that could happen is the gas station gets blown up. I'm willing to risk it.

 

[Apple fanboy]

Had a two and a half hour drive this morning in a van (for work). That long since I’ve driven an ICE vehicle, I forgot how noisy they are. Did my head in.

Mind you, I also drove for an hour before I realised there was a sixth gear!

 

[960design]

That particular one is 2.5 miles round trip.

I like slurpies, but I would have to agree, a little too far for a walk. Biking with a slurpie would only be recommended for the most experienced riders, children between the ages of 8 and 12.

 

[monstermash]

I like slurpies, but I would have to agree, a little too far for a walk. Biking with a slurpie would only be recommended for the most experienced riders, children between the ages of 8 and 12.

It's a busy 3-lane road with no sidewalks, with a 7 year old child.

Hard pass on the bike ride.

 

[960design]

It's a busy 3-lane road with no sidewalks, with a 7 year old child.

Hard pass on the bike ride.

Are you Vulcan?

 

[monstermash]

Are you Vulcan?

Not anymore.