Who has or is planning to get an electric car / EV Talk

[JT2002TJ]

How much distance does 30 min get you?



OK that sounds reasonable, but I don’t think the infrastructure is there to support a lot of EVs on the road. I’m used to this kind of station full of petro pumps. I’m not sure how many charge stations are here if any, maybe a couple.

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Tesla charging stations are the most consistent and reliable in the US (for now). This is the main reason I went with Tesla, oh and Full Self Driving (Beta) which I use 90%+ of my driving. With Tesla, on a Supercharger, you will get about 50% charging in 30 minutes. Charging isn't linear, so it takes longer the closer you get to 100%. Charging also slows down if you use adjacent charging stations, so you want to spread out when charging (following the urinal rule).

Most Teslas you want to keep your max charge at or below 90%, so I have, and probably never will charge to 100%.

As someone else jokingly said, you only need as much charge as it takes to get to the next charging station with a buffer. Tesla's software does a great job of trip planning for you, and now you can even do it in the mobile app.

I live in NY, so I can only tell you my experience driving up and down the East Coast. Along the East Coast, almost every major rest stop has a bank of Tesla chargers. As a Tesla owner, we know which are working, and how many are occupied from the car GUI. They also finally got smart and moved the charging banks away from the buildings. So ICE have to go out of their way to occupy an EV charging spot.

Tesla has changed some of their chargers to "magic dock" which allows CCS fast charging (CCS is what most EVs use except US based Teslas). For now, there aren't enough for any non-Tesla to honestly expect to use them.

Level 1 - 110V low amp charging <= 20 amp
Level 2 - 220V <= 70 amp charging
Level 3 - DC Fast charging <= 350 kW
Level 4 - DC Fast Charging > 350 kW (I think typically they call it 1 MW when it goes up to 1000 kW)

Level 1 vs Level 2 vs Level 3 Vs Level 4 Chargers

Charging an electric vehicle is only as convenient as the charging speed. Levels are used to designate this speed.

topcharger.co.uk

When Tesla L4 chargers are everywhere, I would expect a full charge in 30 mins or less. Which as I mentioned, you don't actually need to fully charge. So typically, you would be in and out in about 15 mins or so.

I haven't gone on any road trips since I got my Tesla. I have used a super charger 1 time (the day I got it), because I didn't have my L2 charger installed yet. So 99.9% of my charging is at home. I have 50 amp circuit for 40 amp continuous charging. I use 30% battery during the day, it takes me 2 hours and 15 minutes to get back up to my starting point of 80%.

 

[Huntn]

That the one between Austin and San Antonio?

I’m not sure, they are all over Texas.

Did I already get an answer how much a full charge costs on average?

 

[Apple fanboy]

I’m not sure, they are all over Texas.

Did I already get an answer how much a full charge costs on average?

From where? Home or out and about. Also depends on the car. Too many variables.
Basically if you charge at home it’s much cheaper than charging on the go.
I charge at work for free 99% of the time. So I’ve paid about £40 in electric over the last 12 months.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

Bottom line the infrastructure in the USA currently is lacking in this regard, And I don’t want an hour long break for charging when cross country driving. My current routine for long distance driving is to stop every 2 hours for a short break, rest room and fill up.

That is exactly what we do. Typically, every 2 hours or 200 miles (ca. 322 km, which ever comes first 😇. With an EV, you park up, hook it up, don't have to wait by the vehicle to fill it, and by the time you've been to the restroom, grabbed a drink/snack, smoked a cigarette, etc, the car is charged up again and ready to go.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

How much distance does 30 min get you?

It depends on the vehicle, when publicly charging and on a journey to somewhere I only use 150 kWh chargers. Typically, that gets me from 10% to 80%. The short and simple version is, ample of power for the next break at 2 hours or 200 miles (ca. 322 km) with plenty of buffer on top. So in reality for me, it's basically only like a 20-minute stop required. Literally, the time required for a typical comfort break. Or as my Nordic friends use the measurement, Poronkusema.

The longer and way more boring version is all to do with battery chemistry, and above 80% charging typically becomes very slow, it is just not efficient to do that when you are on a journey to somewhere. Snooze, boring, blah... In practice, it has no impact, there is plenty of range, can drive it like a normal car and don't have to change anything. Too many EV drivers overcomplicate matters, in my opinion.

OK that sounds reasonable, but I don’t think the infrastructure is there to support a lot of EVs on the road. I’m used to this kind of station full of petro pumps. I’m not sure how many charge stations are here if any, maybe a couple.

​

When you consider that about 90% of journeys for people start and finish at their home, and then you realize that the fast majority of people can charge their vehicle at their own home. Then it becomes clear that there is simply not the same need for public infrastructure like there is with ICE vehicles.

Now fair enough, the US is a bit of a special case with splintering of standards thanks to Tesla, and central government policy to set the direction. And low maintenance levels of those that do get installed. We are lucky here in Europe, It's pretty good, although the UK is a bit more like the US. But no major issues.

 

[Huntn]

From where? Home or out and about. Also depends on the car. Too many variables.
Basically if you charge at home it’s much cheaper than charging on the go.
I charge at work for free 99% of the time. So I’ve paid about £40 in electric over the last 12 months.

Ok, so how much dopeople pay for a charge fill up? For in the States, I’m wondering how much does charging add to your electric bill, and how much at a commercial charging station?

 

[cyb3rdud3]

Ok, so how much dopeople pay for a charge fill up? For in the States, I’m wondering how much does charging add to your electric bill, and how much at a commercial charging station?

At home, it depends on anyone's electricity tariff. Here in the UK, I'm paying typically 7.5 pence (9.4 cents) / kWh. If you have a solar setup, it can be totally free. But some people could also be paying 41.5 pence (54 cents) / kWh.

Out and about, I pay 35 pence (43.78 cents) / kWh for an ultra-fast charger (i.e. at least 150 kWh charger).

A typical battery size is somewhere around 80 kWh, so a full tank is 80 × 7.5p = 6 GBP (7.5 USD). Well, strictly speak ± 10% due to system losses, but that can depend on the climate as well. However, an EV doesn't get driven full to empty to full. It's smart to practice ABC (Alway Be Charging). So in our case, we typically charge to a maximum of 90% (better for battery storage to not keep them at 100%, but we do when we go on a long journey). And on average, we use about 30% per day, and top it up every day again.

 

[Apple fanboy]

Ok, so how much dopeople pay for a charge fill up? For in the States, I’m wondering how much does charging add to your electric bill, and how much at a commercial charging station?

My last two stops for rapid charging came to £12 and £8.
As I don’t charge at home I’ll let others answer that, but here you can get cheaper off peak electricity which is what most people use.

 

[jz0309]

Ok, so how much dopeople pay for a charge fill up? For in the States, I’m wondering how much does charging add to your electric bill, and how much at a commercial charging station?

there is not really a simple answer to your question ...
Home: I'm in California and my last bill came to just under $0.20 per kWh, so if I am putting in say 50kWh it would cost me $10 and is good for ~ 200 miles.
Some utility providers offer a TOU (time of use) plan where you would typically charge overnight at a reduced rate.

on the road: again, the various providers (eg Electrify America, EVGo, Chargepoint to name a few) offer a range of rates, eg EA with a $4/month membership I paid $13 for ~43kWh so just a tad over @0.30, w/out membership I think it is $0.48/kWh, plus it depends on your location. I would expect on average you're probably being charged in the $0.40 range.
And, there are still places where you can charge for free ...

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

My last two stops for rapid charging came to £12 and £8.
As I don’t charge at home I’ll let others answer that, but here you can get cheaper off peak electricity which is what most people use.

It can get expensive when out and about as some fast chargers can charge £55+ for a single charge. Although charging is cheaper on the whole at the moment, it’s creeping up and I am under no illusion the costs will meet at some point in regards to comparing to petrol and diesel. I think it’s more about ride quality, slight convenience, and cleaner air in the long run.

One thing is for certain, those reduced speed limits in our clean air zones are never going to go back up to less frustrating levels once everybody has gone electric. Those nice lovely new dual carriageways that were promoted back in 2010 to get us to work quicker will forever be 40 and 50mph.

 

[Apple fanboy]

It can get expensive when out and about as some fast chargers can charge £55+ for a single charge. Although charging is cheaper on the whole at the moment, it’s creeping up and I am under no illusion the costs will meet at some point in regards to comparing to petrol and diesel. I think it’s more about ride quality, slight convenience, and cleaner air in the long run.

One thing is for certain, those reduced speed limits in our clean air zones are never going to go back up to less frustrating levels once everybody has gone electric. Those nice lovely new dual carriageways that were promoted back in 2010 to get us to work quicker will forever be 40 and 50mph.

Absolutely! When you drive through one in an EV you think ‘why can’t I go at 70?’
That said your range is significantly better if you drive a bit slower no matter what the fuel is.

As for charging prices it’s a bit like petrol. If you stop on the M40 you will pay more for fuel. But if you come off and stop at a local town it’s cheaper.
I’m off to Oxfordshire Sunday so I’ll have to stop somewhere in my few days away, so I’ll see how they compare. Mind you I’ll probably throw an extension cable in the boot and see if I can plug in at the AirBnB. Free charging is always a good thing!

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

Absolutely! When you drive through one in an EV you think ‘why can’t I go at 70?’
That said your range is significantly better if you drive a bit slower no matter what the fuel is.

As for charging prices it’s a bit like petrol. If you stop on the M40 you will pay more for fuel. But if you come off and stop at a local town it’s cheaper.
I’m off to Oxfordshire Sunday so I’ll have to stop somewhere in my few days away, so I’ll see how they compare. Mind you I’ll probably throw an extension cable in the boot and see if I can plug in at the AirBnB. Free charging is always a good thing!

My father in law asked about speed limits going up at a meeting for the A465 average speed introduction a couple of years back. It was Ken Skates taking questions and was really stumped by the question of speed limits going back up as the excuse now is to reduce CO2 emissions lol. It turned out it wasn’t about that really.

Yeah I think motorway services are going to be expensive for whatever. I haven’t filled up on a motorway for many years and can’t actually remember when the last time was. I doubt i’ll be charging on those sorts of routes either.

I’m from Oxfordshire, nice part of the country. I grew up in Banbury and still have a lot of family and friends up there that I visit regularly. Watch nobody snitches on you charging your car from the accommodation lol. I’ve known people get thrown off caravan sites in West Wales for being caught with cars being plugged in next to pitches in the dead of night lol.

 

[adrianlondon]

Yeah I think motorway services are going to be expensive for whatever. I haven’t filled up on a motorway for many years and can’t actually remember when the last time was. I doubt i’ll be charging on those sorts of routes either.

I haven't driven in the UK for years, but I always remember long journeys when the petrol light would come on and it would be a balance between not wanting to pay motorway prices and anxiety that I'd run out and splutter to a halt on the hard shoulder.

After one too many late nights taking random motorway exits trying to find a petrol station, I carried a petrol can in the boot. Never needed it, but made my trips more relaxing.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

I haven't driven in the UK for years, but I always remember long journeys when the petrol light would come on and it would be a balance between not wanting to pay motorway prices and anxiety that I'd run out and splutter to a halt on the hard shoulder.

After one too many late nights taking random motorway exits trying to find a petrol station, I carried a petrol can in the boot. Never needed it, but made my trips more relaxing.

I always fill up close to home usually and my tank has between 550 and 600 miles worth of distance realistically. I went up to Chester on Monday for a few days and did about 350 miles in total. I still had just under half a tank left and had a lead foot for most of that journey. This is why I think for our longer trips we will still have to use my Audi diesel for the time being as neither my wife nor I drive slowly. I don't want to be driving at 65mph on motorways because I am worrying about rinsing my battery too quickly. That takes the pleasure and convenience out of longer drives for me. There will be a lot of adjustment for us going to an EV and we may find its not so much of an issue, but I still have concerns over the longer journeys as I hate stretching them out any longer than necessary.

 

[JT2002TJ]

Ok, so how much dopeople pay for a charge fill up? For in the States, I’m wondering how much does charging add to your electric bill, and how much at a commercial charging station?

As others stated it is a difficult answer. Imagine having an everyday credit card you use for bills that you also charge for gas. Using random gas stations every day to top off your car (at gas stations without the price listed). It would be very difficult to answer what your price per gallon. Unfortunately, that is basically the equivalent of the question you asked.

Living in Long Island NY, with solar panels (I have had them for years, so we can remove them from the equation), over the past 4 months, my electricity has gone up <$100 per month vs. last year in the same months (my last bill was $87 more than last year, but also remember rates have gone up). My model 3 replaced an e46 325i that I would fill up 4-5 times per month at about $80 per tank. My commute for work adds about 1,000 miles per month + an unknown amount of weekend driving. I use about 30% of my battery on a daily commute, parking with sentry mode on and cabin overheat protection set to 100* (ac comes on to keep the vehicle internal temp at 100*).

It is such a hard answer, but does this help you get an idea? This is with 100% charging at home.

There is a free charger at my grocery store (free for 2 hours), and Tesla superchargers everywhere, but there is no reason for me to use them, as they are more expensive (still about 1/4 the cost of gas).

 

[BigMcGuire]

It depends on the vehicle, when publicly charging and on a journey to somewhere I only use 150 kWh chargers. Typically, that gets me from 10% to 80%. The short and simple version is, ample of power for the next break at 2 hours or 200 miles (ca. 322 km) with plenty of buffer on top. So in reality for me, it's basically only like a 20-minute stop required. Literally, the time required for a typical comfort break. Or as my Nordic friends use the measurement, Poronkusema.

The longer and way more boring version is all to do with battery chemistry, and above 80% charging typically becomes very slow, it is just not efficient to do that when you are on a journey to somewhere. Snooze, boring, blah... In practice, it has no impact, there is plenty of range, can drive it like a normal car and don't have to change anything. Too many EV drivers overcomplicate matters, in my opinion.

When you consider that about 90% of journeys for people start and finish at their home, and then you realize that the fast majority of people can charge their vehicle at their own home. Then it becomes clear that there is simply not the same need for public infrastructure like there is with ICE vehicles.

Now fair enough, the US is a bit of a special case with splintering of standards thanks to Tesla, and central government policy to set the direction. And low maintenance levels of those that do get installed. We are lucky here in Europe, It's pretty good, although the UK is a bit more like the US. But no major issues.

Love talking about stuff like this. 2018 M3 LR AWD here. We recently went from San Bernardino to Sacramento (443 miles) and back. Originally we were going to use the trip computer but it wanted us to do a ton of 5-10 min stops and keep the charge rate in the low 10-20%s. I wanted a bit more of a relaxing trip so we picked our own charging stations, charged to 80% and then went at our own pace. Because we planned out our trip, the car pre-conditioned and due to traveling on a week day, we hit mostly empty Tesla Superchargers - and 250kW - so we could get from any % and on our way in <20 mins. It really slows down after 80% so we usually only charged to that.

For example... going from 8% to 80%, (if I remember right) was 15-20 mins, but to go from 80-100% would be 26+ mins.

Initially I was a little worried but when I saw that there were many many hundreds of chargers between our destination and home - basically every other exit had a Tesla supercharger on the 5 and 99. lol - my worry melted away.

Ok, so how much dopeople pay for a charge fill up? For in the States, I’m wondering how much does charging add to your electric bill, and how much at a commercial charging station?

Our trip last month averaged $.37 kWh for Supercharging costs in California. I got $.22 kW with my local power utility last month - this month ticked over to summer time rates and I now am charged $.26 kW for any charging outside of 4-9pm. (4-9pm is .66 kW) - Socal Edison's TOU-D-Prime. I can usually find third party charging for around $.25 kW.

Usually the savings is much higher but the 2 big trips with a higher rate of charging has reduced that difference. Obviously the 2 large supercharging lines = our trip to/from Sacramento. The MOST comfortable, enjoyable road trip I've ever taken (and I've driven many hundreds of thousands of miles).

 

[JT2002TJ]

x2. It is nice to say you can go 600 miles on a tank, but if you drive long distance once a year, it really isn't an advantage, since you have to maintain an engine.

I do like the look of the new Prius, and the engine specs finally make it a decent car (0-60, 60-100,...).

I sold my 2015 Ram yesterday. So now we are down to the 2019 Model 3, and a 2008 Audi 2.0T. Our next move is to replace the Audi with a Model Y. We will be full EV within the next month or two...

2021 MY reserved... Should have it in the next 2 weeks...

So, the only ICE I will have left is my motorcycle, and my leaf blower (I stopped going my own yard work, or I would replace it with the 48V Ryobi leaf blower to match my mower/edger/trimmer).

Not willing to get rid of an ICE motorcycle, yet...

 

[Apple fanboy]

Having some free granny charging at our Airbnb. My friend has just got his first EV. It’s a 2 year old MG5. He loves it. It wouldn’t be my choice, but drives okay.

 

[dangerfish]

Ok, so how much dopeople pay for a charge fill up? For in the States, I’m wondering how much does charging add to your electric bill, and how much at a commercial charging station?

I mostly just drive around the DFW metroplex in Texas and charge at home. This is what I spent in electricity for my car in the last 30 days. If I were to go out of town, I would say the cost to charge at a DC fast charger would be equivalent to the cost of gas.

 

[Huntn]

I mostly just drive around the DFW metroplex in Texas and charge at home. This is what I spent in electricity for my car in the last 30 days. If I were to go out of town, I would say the cost to charge at a DC fast charger would be equivalent to the cost of gas.

Very appealing.

 

[hobowankenobi]

Almost 80K on a 2018 Model 3. No gripes, no regrets. Only dilemma: when to buy a new Model 3. It's great to only go to gas stations for essentials: Slurpees and Slim Jims.

PGE charging at home (Central Coast CA), EV plan. Daily commute is about 70 miles round trip. A few days off, so a bit lighter than the typical month...normally another few days of cost (and gas equivalent savings).

 

[Surfsalot]

An EV is pretty much useless in Australia, unless buying for a shopping cart and never leaving your city/town.

 

[Apple fanboy]

An EV is pretty much useless in Australia, unless buying for a shopping cart and never leaving your city/town.

That’s a shame. Solar powered EV chargers would be great at points in the outback. Plenty of sunshine!

 

[BigMcGuire]

That’s a shame. Solar powered EV chargers would be great at points in the outback. Plenty of sunshine!

Agreed. One would think this to be perfect for a place like that :


(Click for larger photo (above is thumbnail)).

Taken during our trip from LA to Sacramento. That’s our red M3.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

Our Audi Q4 is in the port of Emden, Germany awaiting departure apparently. Audi Cardiff have told us they’ll update us further on the 20th of June. We want it now! My wife’s colleague had his already but opted for the high back model and had his much sooner. I went up to Birmingham this morning and only saw a couple on the motorway and both in pebble grey. It’s funny as we were willing to pay extra for that colour as it was the one we liked, but it’s the standard no extra cost option which was a bonus. I’m guessing as the car becomes more popular, it’ll most likely be mostly the same colour you see.