Who has or is planning to get an electric car / EV Talk

[The-Real-Deal82]

I do understand, but in reality this electricity nor anything else is free. Tax incentives are paid by the working class (all tax payers). The employer is paying for the electricity, since it is cheaper for he or she to pay for the amount of electricity given to you "free" for a few hours, than it is to significantly increase your wages x 8 hours per day. Most companies have work-incentives, but every incentive is taken into account down to the "penny" by the accountants, since the company cannot exist long under a loss of revenue.

It is the same for the healthcare offered to the employee by the employer. Someone has to pay for it. The simplest way to understand is by breaking it down to the individual level: how much you earn/how much you spend. If you spend more than what you earn, then somebody else has to pay for some of your living expenses. You can see this by the great number of "green technology" companies that pop here and there and then disappear a few years later. Government grants (tax-payers' money) alone can't sustain a private sector company.

I’m aware electricity isn’t free and the employer is absorbing the cost, I wasn’t suggesting it was some special case. The company my wife works for make £200m profit a year and turnover close to £500m. They have 12 directors, one of which is my wife and she gets a company car with charging at no extra cost to her. She technically pays £700 a month for the car as that is her company car allowance, not that she would see that money as it is deducted as part of her package. She pays £20 a month in tax for the car. The company letting her have £10 a weeks worth of charging on site is a drop in the ocean for them. They’ve just bought three Porsche Taycans for the chief officers of the company so I think the main motive is investing in the people that make the business a success. Yeah it’s not free ultimately, but the people receiving the benefits aren’t necessarily paying out of their own pockets for it, that was my point.

 

[Reverend Benny]

I spent an hour with my mates Mini Cooper E and that just sold me on having an electric car.
Not a huge fan on the big cars like Tesla or ID4 so I am looking at a good compromise between fun, small, light, and a bit of a range to it.

Fiat 500e has got quite good reviews, seems like its about as fun as the "older" Mini cooper E.
Now I know its a new Mini around the corner about to be released that seem to be even better.

My only problem is charging as I currently live in a flat. But since we have elecric sockets installed where we park (used for heaters during winter) I might have a look and see If I can charge it on low amps there.

 

[Apple fanboy]

I spent an hour with my mates Mini Cooper E and that just sold me on having an electric car.
Not a huge fan on the big cars like Tesla or ID4 so I am looking at a good compromise between fun, small, light, and a bit of a range to it.

Fiat 500e has got quite good reviews, seems like its about as fun as the "older" Mini cooper E.
Now I know its a new Mini around the corner about to be released that seem to be even better.

My only problem is charging as I currently live in a flat. But since we have elecric sockets installed where we park (used for heaters during winter) I might have a look and see If I can charge it on low amps there.

What’s your daily commute? Granny chargers (that’s what they call slow charging) can take a long time. It’s doable, but be careful with extension leads etc. I’ve charged mine that way a few times with no issues.

Totally with you on the small being the best. The BMW i3 is a great lightweight EV. A pity they stopped making them.
The mini has the same motor I believe.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

I spent an hour with my mates Mini Cooper E and that just sold me on having an electric car.
Not a huge fan on the big cars like Tesla or ID4 so I am looking at a good compromise between fun, small, light, and a bit of a range to it.

Fiat 500e has got quite good reviews, seems like its about as fun as the "older" Mini cooper E.
Now I know its a new Mini around the corner about to be released that seem to be even better.

My only problem is charging as I currently live in a flat. But since we have elecric sockets installed where we park (used for heaters during winter) I might have a look and see If I can charge it on low amps there.

If I were you I would steer clear of Fiat. The 500 ICE they have produced for over a decade is one of the most unreliable cars on the road and I don't think I would trust them with electric power, especially as Fiat are renowned for having poor electrics in their cars. The Mini Cooper E would be my choice out of the two, especially as you would have a much better after sales service with a BMW group company.

Charging off normal mains will take around ten times longer than a dedicated charger just to warn you. If your commute is short and you only need a few percent a day then it may be ok. Our EV takes about 4 hours to charge across an overnight period and if we plug it in to the basic mains, charging times from very low to 80% can be estimated from 38 to 44 hours.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

I spent an hour with my mates Mini Cooper E and that just sold me on having an electric car.
Not a huge fan on the big cars like Tesla or ID4 so I am looking at a good compromise between fun, small, light, and a bit of a range to it.

Fiat 500e has got quite good reviews, seems like its about as fun as the "older" Mini cooper E.
Now I know its a new Mini around the corner about to be released that seem to be even better.

My only problem is charging as I currently live in a flat. But since we have elecric sockets installed where we park (used for heaters during winter) I might have a look and see If I can charge it on low amps there.

I'm not a fan of small cars like that, but that just shows we are all different. It is good that there is choice.

When I was at Ionity Rivono Nord going towards Monaco, a Fiat 500e from the Netherlands parked up next to me. Sure, the battery is a lot smaller than our Polestar, so they had to make a few more stops along the route. But they were very pleased with it. They loved the reliability, comfort, and it was fine on their annual long-distance holiday trip.

For 95% of the time they just charged at home, and as their commute was limited, they managed just fine with a granny (normal power outlet socket) charger. Culturally in the Netherlands, a lot of people use their bicycles as well

 

[JT2002TJ]

For those of you who live in the US/Canada who have or are considering a TM3 or TMY. They do not come with SiriusXM tuners. On one of the Tesla forums they discovered that getting a Model S/X radio <$200 on ebay, an antenna adapter ($9) and SXM antenna on Amazon ($19) you can get SXM.

I have successfully installed and moved one of my lifetime accounts over to my Model Y. I will do the Model 3 sometime in the next year (my wife doesn't drive much).

The Model Y is simply swapping the radio (15 minute job), the 3 requires swapping the radio internals from the S/X radio into the 3 radio case, so it is more involved.

So, if not having SXM within the vehicle is one of the things holding you back from a 3/Y, no need to let that stop you. If you PM me, I can help you with all the steps.

I was streaming from the SXM app via Bluetooth before this. This is a very good option except where you may have cell dead zones.

I still am hoping they add a SXM streaming app to the UI, this would allow the user to gain access to those additional stream only channels directly within the UI.

 

[JT2002TJ]

As we all know, I am a HUGE EV fan... I would have to think long and hard about having EVs if I didn't have access to L2 charging at home. For me, it wouldn't work, (I use between 30%-40% of my Long-Range battery per day). It might work for my wife, she uses 10%-20% a day. But as others have pointed out, you want to make sure you can recover enough charge (at home or work) so that you can make it through the week. On the weekends, you can always go to a L3-L4 charger.

 

[Reverend Benny]

What’s your daily commute? Granny chargers (that’s what they call slow charging) can take a long time. It’s doable, but be careful with extension leads etc. I’ve charged mine that way a few times with no issues.

Totally with you on the small being the best. The BMW i3 is a great lightweight EV. A pity they stopped making them.
The mini has the same motor I believe.

I absolutely agree, it's such a shame the i3 isn't manufactured anymore.
And I agree on the granny charger, I see it as an "emergency" option, noone want's to risk starting a fire in a garage. And even charging with low amps its not ideal.

I don't really do a daily commute with car anymore, so from an economic perspective its just a stupid thing to swap to an electric car. But i prob drive around 10000-15000km a year. 5-6 times I do a longer trips on lets say 500km one way.

 

[Apple fanboy]

I absolutely agree, it's such a shame the i3 isn't manufactured anymore.
And I agree on the granny charger, I see it as an "emergency" option, noone want's to risk starting a fire in a garage. And even charging with low amps its not ideal.

I don't really do a daily commute with car anymore, so from an economic perspective its just a stupid thing to swap to an electric car. But i prob drive around 10000-15000km a year. 5-6 times I do a longer trips on lets say 500km one way.

I’ve never felt the granny charger is a fire risk. But it’s the BMW that came with the car rather than one of eBay etc.
If using public chargers for the occasional long trip, apps like Zapp Map or better route planning are good to help you find chargers.

Talking of which I better go top mine up as I’m in London tomorrow.

 

[Reverend Benny]

If I were you I would steer clear of Fiat. The 500 ICE they have produced for over a decade is one of the most unreliable cars on the road and I don't think I would trust them with electric power, especially as Fiat are renowned for having poor electrics in their cars. The Mini Cooper E would be my choice out of the two, especially as you would have a much better after sales service with a BMW group company.

Charging off normal mains will take around ten times longer than a dedicated charger just to warn you. If your commute is short and you only need a few percent a day then it may be ok. Our EV takes about 4 hours to charge across an overnight period and if we plug it in to the basic mains, charging times from very low to 80% can be estimated from 38 to 44 hours.

Yea, I know all about Italian quality...or well, the lack of it. Currently riding an Aprilia Tuono and its an amazing bike but lightyears from British or especially German standards.

Fiats electric cars (especially the new 500) do get a lot of praise tho, but you I do think you make a good point when it comes to after sales, especially in Sweden where I currently live.

I don't wanna charge over mains if I haven't been able to have a good look at the electric system, its just to much risk doing so. It isn't designed to charge electric cars and I see it as an emergency option.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

Yea, I know all about Italian quality...or well, the lack of it. Currently riding an Aprilia Tuono and its an amazing bike but lightyears from British or especially German standards.

Fiats electric cars (especially the new 500) do get a lot of praise tho, but you I do think you make a good point when it comes to after sales, especially in Sweden where I currently live.

I don't wanna charge over mains if I haven't been able to have a good look at the electric system, its just to much risk doing so. It isn't designed to charge electric cars and I see it as an emergency option.

My boss is Dutch and his wife has one of the Fiat 500 EV’s and he said it’s because they are one of the cheapest EV’s in the Netherlands which is why they are so popular. I think he says it was €36k and come to think of it I’ve seen them a lot when I work over there, not so many in the UK. Cars are extortionately priced over there which is a different topic entirely. He was saying you have to make sure with Fiat you have a couple of grand spare to cover potential issues as Fiat love dodging out of warranty work. My mum had a 500 in 2017 and the gearbox housing split at 8k miles I think it was. A lot of threats later Fiat agreed to pay towards a replacement but it still cost her £2k. It sort of deterred anybody in our family ever touching them again.

Knowing that you live in a country with extreme winter conditions, I’d definitely consider an alternative to a Fiat. Would a used XC40 be an option? Small EV and designed with Scandinavia in mind?

 

[culo77]

for folks that are lurking;

Don't be afraid of the "granny charger". You can get by really easily without a level2 charger, even when your car's battery is only 33kwh(94ah) and you deal with 3 months of below freezing temperatures.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

for folks that are lurking;

Don't be afraid of the "granny charger". You can get by really easily without a level2 charger, even when your car's battery is only 33kwh(94ah) and you deal with 3 months of below freezing temperatures.

Naturally depends on how many miles one does per day.

For us, a typical charge would be saying 60% of the capacity currently daily. Say one gets the maximum possible 3kW, that means it takes 12.2 hours to charge. That is 12.2 hours in a day that the car can't be used. So either we couldn't charge it back up daily and ultimately can't drive how we want unless publicly charging at significantly increased costs.

But yes, if one does very low mileage it is possible, I'd get a bicycle though, much healthier

We couldn't. I wouldn't also want to lose the luxury of a tethered charger. I've used EV long enough now to know that the experience just isn't the same, and would get rapidly annoying.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

for folks that are lurking;

Don't be afraid of the "granny charger". You can get by really easily without a level2 charger, even when your car's battery is only 33kwh(94ah) and you deal with 3 months of below freezing temperatures.

It’s not ideal though as charging takes about 10 times longer. If you were driving 100 miles a day, you’d need a dedicated charger just to keep on top of the charging, there’s only so many hours overnight. It’s fine for very low mileage and topping up say 10% over a 12 hour period.

 

[Eric5h5]

Sure would be nice if EVs would focus more on efficiency so they wouldn't need huge batteries, and could easily get by with granny charging. So far all we seem to have is Aptera, and it's iffy if that will even go into production. Way too many 6,000 pound bricks that need 80KWh (minimum) batteries just to have semi-decent range.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

Sure would be nice if EVs would focus more on efficiency so they wouldn't need huge batteries, and could easily get by with granny charging. So far all we seem to have is Aptera, and it's iffy if that will even go into production. Way too many 6,000 pound bricks that need 80KWh (minimum) batteries just to have semi-decent range.

We won’t see another battery breakthrough for at least 5-10 years. Sure they are heavier, although not always by that much. Besides high efficiency small turbo charged petrol engines is only something of recent times as well. And most, not all, but most don’t provide a better driving experience. Especially considering the typically lower center of gravity the additional weight isn’t necessarily a bad thing in all cases.

 

[JT2002TJ]

Sure would be nice if EVs would focus more on efficiency so they wouldn't need huge batteries, and could easily get by with granny charging. So far all we seem to have is Aptera, and it's iffy if that will even go into production. Way too many 6,000 pound bricks that need 80KWh (minimum) batteries just to have semi-decent range.

TM3's (Tesla's most efficient vehicle) are in the same weight range as 3-Series BMWs, A4's and C class MB, and the interior is bigger... I wouldn't say it is a 6k brick... ALL vehicles are heavy now because they can no longer get away without providing safety in the event of an accident...

If you are talking about vehicles like F150 Lightning, Rivian R1T/R1S, Hummer EV, these are specialty vehicles, that even the comparable ICE are bricks, but serve a unique purpose.

Yes, EV's weight more, but it isn't that much more that it is even noticeable when you own one. My TM3 is just as fun to drive as the car it replaced, an e46 3 series. I can handle the same curvy roads at similar speeds, because of the MUCH lower center of gravity.

To people looking, I say drive them (most require extended test drives because there are so many features to customize), they do not feel heavy like the equivalent ICE because of the immediate power at any speed.

 

[diamond.g]

Yeah the BMW i5 weighs more than the Model S. IIRC the Mercedes EQC is even heavier than the BMW.

 

[JT2002TJ]

Yeah the BMW i5 weighs more than the Model S. IIRC the Mercedes EQC is even heavier than the BMW.

The only EV by BMW I openly discuss is the i3, so far everything else EV by them is a fail in my eyes. They are falling way behind (but they are BMW so they can catch up). The fact they are taking existing vehicles and EV'ing them vs developing an EV from the ground up is what I personally think is the problem (obviously excluding the i3). They should design the vehicle around the battery. Teslas (at least the 3s/Ys) are batteries with cars build around them, this is the way.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

The only EV by BMW I openly discuss is the i3, so far everything else EV by them is a fail in my eyes. They are falling way behind (but they are BMW so they can catch up). The fact they are taking existing vehicles and EV'ing them vs developing an EV from the ground up is what I personally think is the problem (obviously excluding the i3). They should design the vehicle around the battery. Teslas (at least the 3s/Ys) are batteries with cars build around them, this is the way.

Hmm, yes and no. What I really dislike about the skateboard platform of many EV's and what Tesla has done is the batteries under the floor. Yes, it has the advantages of lower center of gravity, but also it creates for a rather odd seating experience in the back especially. Whenever I'm in a Tesla, and a lot of the Model S are taxis, I feel like I've got my knees in my mouth and my bum on the floor.

I wouldn't call the i4 M50 a fail, nor the iX (although they managed to make that one even uglier than any Tesla), the i7 is already getting a lot of praise from the press, and the i5 is well on its way as well.

To me, with what is coming out of Europe now, it relegates Tesla to be the Toyota of the EV world with just an acceleration party trick in certain models. To me, Tesla is looking hopelessly out of date, can't keep up with the luxury levels, and it is demonstrated by price reductions which is their only way to compete. I appreciate that in the US they may still have an advantage with their proprietary charging network, but in the rest of the world they no longer have that either.

But all said, the new model 3 (not available in the US nor UK for some reason) is demonstrating that it isn't over yet. Just need to update the rest of the range, add some properly luxury materials and build to them, and stop trying to compete on price....

 

[diamond.g]

The only EV by BMW I openly discuss is the i3, so far everything else EV by them is a fail in my eyes. They are falling way behind (but they are BMW so they can catch up). The fact they are taking existing vehicles and EV'ing them vs developing an EV from the ground up is what I personally think is the problem (obviously excluding the i3). They should design the vehicle around the battery. Teslas (at least the 3s/Ys) are batteries with cars build around them, this is the way.

While I agree, it seems the market would rather they do what they are doing. All the reviews of the i5 and i7 that I have seen so far are fairly good.

 

[JT2002TJ]

Remember, the UK prices of a Tesla is high because it is an import, just like all the other American cars. In US prices, Tesla's are not priced like luxury vehicles. A TM3/TMY ARE in the price range of a Toyota. A RWD TM3 is $30k, just like the closest equivalent FWD Camery. A TMS starts at $70k, which is in the 5-series price range...

The non-i3 BMW EV's are getting good reviews, but they are not efficient like the TM3/TMY which was what I was responding to. In order to achieve the weight and efficiency, you need to build the vehicle around a battery, at least at this point with the battery tech we have today.

The TMS/X are not the most efficient Tesla's, the 3/Y are since they were ground up designs, the S/X are legacy designs to get Tesla on the map so that they could build the 3/Y.

But it is hard to say Tesla is falling behind, with the TMY being the number one selling vehicle worldwide for the first half of 2023...

 

[cyb3rdud3]

Remember, the UK prices of a Tesla is high because it is an import, just like all the other American cars. In US prices, Tesla's are not priced like luxury vehicles. A TM3/TMY ARE in the price range of a Toyota. A RWD TM3 is $30k, just like the closest equivalent FWD Camery. A TMS starts at $70k, which is in the 5-series price range...

The non-i3 BMW EV's are getting good reviews, but they are not efficient like the TM3/TMY which was what I was responding to. In order to achieve the weight and efficiency, you need to build the vehicle around a battery, at least at this point with the battery tech we have today.

The TMS/X are not the most efficient Tesla's, the 3/Y are since they were ground up designs, the S/X are legacy designs to get Tesla on the map so that they could build the 3/Y.

But it is hard to say Tesla is falling behind, with the TMY being the number one selling vehicle worldwide for the first half of 2023...

Good, so we agree. And yes, Toyota is also one of the best-selling car companies in the world, and there are way more PCs being sold. The quantity of units shifted is, to me, never an indication of something being good and none of the more desirable brands will be worried by that. There is definitely a market for it, but don't forget you class them as a fail, and they are anything but a fail other than to people who just want something cheap that gets them from a-2-b.

 

[JT2002TJ]

Good, so we agree. And yes, Toyota is also one of the best-selling car companies in the world, and there are way more PCs being sold. The quantity of units shifted is, to me, never an indication of something being good and none of the more desirable brands will be worried by that. There is definitely a market for it, but don't forget you class them as a fail, and they are anything but a fail other than to people who just want something cheap that gets them from a-2-b.

Maybe so. But I still have a better user experience in a Tesla with their UI over all the other EVs today. That may change, but still today, I get in my car and everything is easy vs. others... So, the lack of luxury doesn't mean anything to me, if I don't have things I consider a minimum with an EV that only Tesla does right (others may do some of them, but not as well)...

Phone key
Scheduled departures by GPS location
phone key based seating, mirror, and UI settings
Cloud based settings (have 2 Teslas, or getting a loaner, settings carry over)
Tesla Maps
Tesla Center Screen
Full Self Driving (I do 90% of my driving in the NYC metroplex using FSD)
Supercharger payment (plug and go)
Mobile phone integration/notifications
Sentry Mode
Efficiency (3/Y, I have both)
Sales experience
Service experience (all through the app)

So, to me, having massaging seats, while still being behind in some or all of these, is missing the foundation that I expect from an EV...

 

[cyb3rdud3]

Maybe so. But I still have a better user experience in a Tesla with their UI over all the other EVs today. That may change, but still today, I get in my car and everything is easy vs. others... So, the lack of luxury doesn't mean anything to me, if I don't have things I consider a minimum with an EV that only Tesla does right (others may do some of them, but not as well)...

Phone key
Scheduled departures by GPS location
phone key based seating, mirror, and UI settings
Cloud based settings (have 2 Teslas, or getting a loaner, settings carry over)
Tesla Maps
Tesla Center Screen
Full Self Driving (I do 90% of my driving in the NYC metroplex using FSD)
Supercharger payment (plug and go)
Mobile phone integration/notifications
Sentry Mode
Efficiency (3/Y, I have both)
Sales experience
Service experience (all through the app)

So, to me, having massaging seats, while still being behind in some or all of these, is missing the foundation that I expect from an EV...

Sure, I hear this a lot. To me, I want a car. Others want a (cloud) based app. I value the car part way more.