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I7guy

macrumors Nehalem
Nov 30, 2013
35,145
25,240
Gotta be in it to win it
I think the Cybertruck looks ridiculous. But what it can do is pretty impressive. I mean that video on the drag strip against a Porsche whilst towing the same car was pretty impressive. Yet highly irresponsible as well as an official video as nobody should tow and speed like that.
Why was that irresponsible on a closed track? (Or closed off roadway?)
In the UK pickup trucks used to be more popular due to special tax rules. When it can haul 1tonne it was classed as a commercial vehicle and thus benefit in kind tax was limited. That caused the rise of pickup trucks here as well. With Nissan the first that drove like a normal car (Toyota and Mitsubishi were horrible and agricultural by comparison), and then later joined by Volkswagen and Mercedes. I took advantage as well, and it was handy towing a powerboat :)

But the tax advantages are currently still just about with a nice EV.

I stopped chasing the tax benefit and value my own comfort more nowadays. 😎 So are just driven by what I want and like.

And no the cyber truck is not what I want.
I don’t want (or need) a pickup or hauler. Having said that the cyber truck is bold. I like it.
 

Kung

macrumors 6502
Feb 3, 2006
485
496
I don't need one because I can just go to U-Haul or Home Depot if I need to rent a vehicle to haul stuff.

Well, so can I...but unlike many, I actually tow/use my truck on a regular basis; use it to renovate my house, get firewood, take trash to the local trash convenience center, etc. If I utilized a UHaul on a weekly/monthly basis to do what I do, it'd cost me about $1K. That's half again a truck payment.

I think we can all agree that anyone actually trying to tow like that would be irresponsible as hell...but as someone who uses his truck on a weekly basis to tow or utilize the bed of his truck to move/dispose of stuff, I don't see that as an advertisement to speed. Rather, I think "Dang...that's one hell of a lot of torque/HP" - and as someone who just towed 5,000# through WV, MO, AR and TN (not to mention VA), believe me when I say that would be useful as hell.

Am I going to go buy one? No...my truck is paid off and does just fine. But would I LIKE to have a truck with that kind of capability? Would it make daily/weekly/monthly tasks a lot easier? Absolutely. (And you're talking to someone who drives VERY responsibly, *especially* when towing.)
 

pshufd

macrumors G4
Oct 24, 2013
10,146
14,572
New Hampshire
Well, so can I...but unlike many, I actually tow/use my truck on a regular basis; use it to renovate my house, get firewood, take trash to the local trash convenience center, etc.

I think we can all agree that anyone actually trying to tow like that would be irresponsible as hell...but as someone who uses his truck on a weekly basis to tow or utilize the bed of his truck to move/dispose of stuff, I don't see that as an advertisement to speed. Rather, I think "Dang...that's one hell of a lot of torque/HP" - and as someone who just towed 5,000# through WV, MO, AR and TN (not to mention VA), believe me when I say that would be useful as hell.

Am I going to go buy one? No...my truck is paid off and does just fine. But would I LIKE to have a truck with that kind of capability? Would it make daily/weekly/monthly tasks a lot easier? Absolutely. (And you're talking to someone who drives VERY responsibly, *especially* when towing.)

Folks that need a truck, need a truck. I have a friend that has a trailer for towing stuff but it's not as sturdy a solution as a pickup truck or SUV. I have borrowed a Chevy Suburban from my boss to move stuff one time. One nice thing about being retired is that you can pretty easily trade favors like driving someone to the airport for borrowing a vehicle.
 
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Kung

macrumors 6502
Feb 3, 2006
485
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Well, yeah...and I think the overall point is (or should be) that there's a good market for stuff like the Cybertruck. If I had to do a LOT of short-range (less than 250 miles) but heavy hauling, I'd have NO problem buying the Cybertruck. But does everyone who owns a truck need something like the Cybertruck? LOL no.
 

cyb3rdud3

macrumors 601
Jun 22, 2014
4,081
2,751
UK
Why was that irresponsible on a closed track? (Or closed off roadway?)
Because it shows how fast it is with a laden trailer. People are dumb. When you see already how some 4x4s go way too fast with their trailers this just encourages it to show off. Not something a brand should be doing.
I don’t want (or need) a pickup or hauler. Having said that the cyber truck is bold. I like it.
Neither do I :) I don’t think it’s bold, it’s silly and ugly. I think there are way nicer vehicles in that category to have, and also a category where a good diesel is likely more off use for quite some time.
 
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JT2002TJ

macrumors 68020
Nov 7, 2013
2,068
1,397
Because it shows how fast it is with a laden trailer. People are dumb. When you see already how some 4x4s go way too fast with their trailers this just encourages it to show off. Not something a brand should be doing.

Neither do I :) I don’t think it’s bold, it’s silly and ugly. I think there are way nicer vehicles in that category to have, and also a category where a good diesel is likely more off use for quite some time.

As someone who has owned a truck and towed much stuff with it (see picture below where I towed a car from NY to FL, and another car up from FL to NY), acceleration with a trailer is an important metric. To be able to safely enter/exit a highway, to be able to overtake, or to be able to maintain speed on an incline are all demonstrated by the ability of a truck to be able to out accelerate sports cars while towing a heavy load.

This was before I put bags on the rear to compensate for the rear suspension's added weight:


I would even tow my motorcycle behind the tuck, I have a bigger trailer now:
 

Kung

macrumors 6502
Feb 3, 2006
485
496
As someone who has owned a truck and towed much stuff with it (see picture below where I towed a car from NY to FL, and another car up from FL to NY), acceleration with a trailer is an important metric. To be able to safely enter/exit a highway, to be able to overtake, or to be able to maintain speed on an incline are all demonstrated by the ability of a truck to be able to out accelerate sports cars while towing a heavy load.

This. No, I don't need to be able to go 0-60 in 3.2 seconds, of course.

However, unladen, my '20 Tundra goes from 0-60 in 6.5 seconds or so. Loaded down with 5K#? That probably doubles at BEST and that's if I'm hauling ass.

None of those takes into account drivers that WILL NOT let me merge, or they're 200' behind me going the same rate of speed in the rightmost lane and have no intention of hitting the brakes for me as I merge, etc. As such, given that, if I'm merging with a 12' trailer that weighs 5K#, I can't just stop for traffic that can't merge....the solution is more low-end torque/HP - not to haul absolute ass but to at least be able to adjust speed a bit as I merge.
 
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cyb3rdud3

macrumors 601
Jun 22, 2014
4,081
2,751
UK
As someone who has owned a truck and towed much stuff with it (see picture below where I towed a car from NY to FL, and another car up from FL to NY), acceleration with a trailer is an important metric. To be able to safely enter/exit a highway, to be able to overtake, or to be able to maintain speed on an incline are all demonstrated by the ability of a truck to be able to out accelerate sports cars while towing a heavy load.

This was before I put bags on the rear to compensate for the rear suspension's added weight:


I would even tow my motorcycle behind the tuck, I have a bigger trailer now:
Sure but even an old lowly four cylinder Nissan Navara 2.5 diesel can merge safely on a motorway. There is no need to be able to outrun full throttle a Porsche. 🤷‍♂️ When towing a full rig to weight specs it’s all about anticipation, not out accelerating sports cars
 
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JT2002TJ

macrumors 68020
Nov 7, 2013
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Sure but even an old lowly four cylinder Nissan Navara 2.5 diesel can merge safely on a motorway. There is no need to be able to outrun full throttle a Porsche. 🤷‍♂️ When towing a full rig to weight specs it’s all about anticipation, not out accelerating sports cars

Not here... No way... Not towing 8k+ lbs with a short entrance ramp where you need to get from 25 mph to 60 mph in a <=100 feet. Also, there is no way you can maintain speed while going up an incline with the same load. This is why we have much stricter towing laws here, we don't want a 50-car traffic jam because some yahoo is pulling a caravan with a 4 cylinder civic...

And to the comment about no need to be able to outrun a full throttle Porsche while towing a Porsche, I argue that, once I know it is possible, I now NEED it...


EDIT: I don't think that Nissan Navara can even tow the load I had in that picture. Also my Ram was 395 Hp.
 
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Tagbert

macrumors 603
Jun 22, 2011
6,254
7,280
Seattle
I don't need one because I can just go to U-Haul or Home Depot if I need to rent a vehicle to haul stuff.
The problem with those is the complicated process and availability. I recently tried to get a pickup for the weekend for a home improvement project. Lowe’s was first come, first serve for the single pickup. Home depot didn’t have a pickup at the nearby store, I’d need to go to a store 20 miles away to find a pickup. I ended up with U-Haul but that process took about 45 minutes to get an attendant, do the paperwork, and finally get the vehicle. Then again when I brought it back. Both for the pickup and drop off I had to schedule a specific time to make sure that someone was there at the U-Haul office. I wish there was something like Lime Bike for pickups.
 
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JT2002TJ

macrumors 68020
Nov 7, 2013
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The problem with those is the complicated process and availability. I recently tried to get a pickup for the weekend for a home improvement project. Lowe’s was first come, first serve for the single pickup. Home depot didn’t have a pickup at the nearby store, I’d need to go to a store 20 miles away to find a pickup. I ended up with U-Haul but that process took about 45 minutes to get an attendant, do the paperwork, and finally get the vehicle. Then again when I brought it back. Both for the pickup and drop off I had to schedule a specific time to make sure that someone was there at the U-Haul office. I wish there was something like Lime Bike for pickups.

This is why I have a trailer. I have a 6x12 AL utility trailer, that I can pull behind my TMY. When I had my truck, I used it all the time since it had a ramp and was low to the ground. It also has a heavier payload than most 3/4 ton pickups.

I added brakes to it, since the TMY recommends trailer brakes with loads over 1.5k lbs.
 

Tagbert

macrumors 603
Jun 22, 2011
6,254
7,280
Seattle
This is why I have a trailer. I have a 6x12 AL utility trailer, that I can pull behind my TMY. When I had my truck, I used it all the time since it had a ramp and was low to the ground. It also has a heavier payload than most 3/4 ton pickups.

I added brakes to it, since the TMY recommends trailer brakes with loads over 1.5k lbs.
That's good if you have a lot of room to store the trailer. I only need a truck about once a year so a trailer wouldn't be the best investment, either. In the meantime, I'll mostly keep hauling things in my Volt. :)
 
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I7guy

macrumors Nehalem
Nov 30, 2013
35,145
25,240
Gotta be in it to win it
Because it shows how fast it is with a laden trailer. People are dumb. When you see already how some 4x4s go way too fast with their trailers this just encourages it to show off. Not something a brand should be doing.
People are dumb, but if they don’t understand exhibition driving, it’s on them. (I do believe people who watch nascar or F1 believe their cars can do on the street what they see these vehicles do on the racetrack—-so there is that)
Neither do I :) I don’t think it’s bold, it’s silly and ugly. I think there are way nicer vehicles in that category to have, and also a category where a good diesel is likely more off use for quite some time.
Different strokes for different folks and will probably be a best seller.
 

Flowstates

macrumors 6502
Aug 5, 2023
333
397
People are dumb, but if they don’t understand exhibition driving, it’s on them. (I do believe people who watch nascar or F1 believe their cars can do on the street what they see these vehicles do on the racetrack—-so there is that)

Different strokes for different folks and will probably be a best seller.

Do you own tesla stock ?
 

cyb3rdud3

macrumors 601
Jun 22, 2014
4,081
2,751
UK
Not here... No way... Not towing 8k+ lbs with a short entrance ramp where you need to get from 25 mph to 60 mph in a <=100 feet. Also, there is no way you can maintain speed while going up an incline with the same load. This is why we have much stricter towing laws here, we don't want a 50-car traffic jam because some yahoo is pulling a caravan with a 4 cylinder civic...
Hmm, our driving licenses and definitely cars and pickups aren't certified for towing more than 3.5t (7.7k lbs). You are talking about a different category when you go into 8k+ lbs. And then certainly don't pull those stunts.
And to the comment about no need to be able to outrun a full throttle Porsche while towing a Porsche, I argue that, once I know it is possible, I now NEED it...
🤣🤣👍 Fair enough, I can appreciate that.
 
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JT2002TJ

macrumors 68020
Nov 7, 2013
2,068
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Hmm, our driving licenses and definitely cars and pickups aren't certified for towing more than 3.5t (7.7k lbs). You are talking about a different category when you go into 8k+ lbs. And then certainly don't pull those stunts.

Yeah, we can legally tow to the limit of non-commercial vehicle ratings here, before you need a different class license. If you use air brakes that’s an immediate jump in class. 8K-9k is the upper limit of “safe” for the Ram I had (1/2 ton pickup), even though it was rated at just over 10k lbs.

When the second gen Cybertrucks are out (or enough proof of issues being addressed on Gen 1) and they come off lease, I think I may look into the 4WD version. Sell the TM3, give my wife the TMY, and I’ll be back in the pickup world. I miss having my pickup truck, I just couldn’t justify the expenses associated with having 3 anymore. An EV truck would scratch my pickup truck itch, while also maintaining commuting efficiency.

I have never bought a new vehicle. I always buy 1-3 year old vehicles from a dealer/manufacturer while still under warranty. So, we are a minimum of 4 years away from me being able to get one…
 
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AlaskaMoose

macrumors 68040
Apr 26, 2008
3,586
13,430
Alaska
Not here... No way... Not towing 8k+ lbs with a short entrance ramp where you need to get from 25 mph to 60 mph in a <=100 feet. Also, there is no way you can maintain speed while going up an incline with the same load. This is why we have much stricter towing laws here, we don't want a 50-car traffic jam because some yahoo is pulling a caravan with a 4 cylinder civic...

And to the comment about no need to be able to outrun a full throttle Porsche while towing a Porsche, I argue that, once I know it is possible, I now NEED it...


EDIT: I don't think that Nissan Navara can even tow the load I had in that picture. Also my Ram was 395 Hp.
Maybe all depends on the amount of traffic? In general the entrance ramps are long enough for any type of motorized vehicle to merge into traffic, usually the slower speed right lane. All one has to do it to wait for an opening in traffic, before accelerating. How do you think a large truck with more than one tank or trailer to merge into traffic? These trucks are accelerated through a series of very low gears. So yes, at least in the US one can legally merge into traffic with the Nissan truck mentioned. There is something else I should mention (this applies to the US): if there is a vehicle merging into traffic and you only have two choices. You either move to the left or fast lane, or slow down to allow the vehicle in front of you to merge. If you drive into the back end of the vehicle in front, you are at fault.
 
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JT2002TJ

macrumors 68020
Nov 7, 2013
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Maybe all depends on the amount of traffic? In general the entrance ramps are long enough for any type of motorized vehicle to merge into traffic, usually the slower speed right lane. All one has to do it to wait for an opening in traffic, before accelerating. How do you think a large truck with more than one tank or trailer to merge into traffic? These trucks are accelerated through a series of very low gears. So yes, at least in the US one can legally merge into traffic with the Nissan truck mentioned. There is something else I should mention (this applies to the US): if there is a vehicle merging into traffic and you only have two choices. You either move to the left or fast lane, or slow down to allow the vehicle in front of you to merge. If you drive into the back end of the vehicle in front, you are at fault.

It all depends on where you live. On the east coast, not all on ramps are adequate. Also, 18 wheelers tend to stick to those entrances/exits designed to handle low geared rigs.

I have towed all up and down the east coast, for us non-commercial guys, needing more power happens more often than one would expect.
 

AlaskaMoose

macrumors 68040
Apr 26, 2008
3,586
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Alaska
It all depends on where you live. On the east coast, not all on ramps are adequate. Also, 18 wheelers tend to stick to those entrances/exits designed to handle low geared rigs.

I have towed all up and down the east coast, for us non-commercial guys, needing more power happens more often than one would expect.
I kept a CDL until recent years. Had endorsements for hazardous cargo (Hazmat), double and triple tankers and trailers, and so on. These large cargo trucks tend to stick to the entrances and exits that are safer to navigate and closer to the cargo destinations. But it doesn't mean that there are entrances and exits that are used only by these rigs. You have to keep in mind that the highway's entrances, ramps or not, are to allow all vehicles to safely merge with the high speed traffic. The speed in entrances and exits are a lot lower than the highway speeds, and done for safety reasons. For example, there is no law that prohibits merging into high speed traffic by antique automobiles, not even road maintenance equipment such as graders, etc.

Having more HP in any vehicle is a matter of choice, or needs/wants, but road design and speed limits relate to drivers and occupants' safety. One can only safely merge into high speed traffic when there is room for one to do so, regardless of how much HP the engine or electric motor can produce.
 
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JT2002TJ

macrumors 68020
Nov 7, 2013
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I kept a CDL until recent years. Had endorsements for hazardous cargo (Hazmat), double and triple tankers and trailers, and so on. These large cargo trucks tend to stick to the entrances and exits that are safer to navigate and closer to the cargo destinations. But it doesn't mean that there are entrances and exits that are used only by these rigs. You have to keep in mind that the highway's entrances and exits, ramps or not, are to allow all vehicles to safely merge with the high speed traffic. The speed in entrances and exits are a lot lower than the highway speeds, and done for safety reasons. For example, there is no law that prohibits merging into high speed traffic by antique automobiles, not even road maintenance equipment such as graders, etc.

I understand that. My point was only that there are entrances that require fast acceleration to safely merge (short runways), and there are situations where drivers will do everything to prevent you from entering. These are times when you need more go pedal. This tends to happen more (from my experience) in states with high population (east coast).

Try entering the NJ Parkway (non-commercial towing is allowed) towing and you will know exactly what I’m talking about. Shoot, even the NJ Turnpike (I95) can put you in a bind entering/exiting. For the past 20+ years they are widening the southern stretch (2 lanes), but if you are driving through NJ, you know exactly why you need get up and go when towing. At least with an 18 wheeler some people respect/fear the weight. When towing in a pickup, you get NO respect.
 

AlaskaMoose

macrumors 68040
Apr 26, 2008
3,586
13,430
Alaska
I understand that. My point was only that there are entrances that require fast acceleration to safely merge (short runways), and there are situations where drivers will do everything to prevent you from entering. These are times when you need more go pedal. This tends to happen more (from my experience) in states with high population (east coast).

Try entering the NJ Parkway (non-commercial towing is allowed) towing and you will know exactly what I’m talking about. Shoot, even the NJ Turnpike (I95) can put you in a bind entering/exiting. For the past 20+ years they are widening the southern stretch (2 lanes), but if you are driving through NJ, you know exactly why you need get up and go when towing. At least with an 18 wheeler some people respect/fear the weight. When towing in a pickup, you get NO respect.
That's exactly what I was trying to tell you. If there is a rule about not towing at the NJ Parkway it relates to towing safety, so all drivers should be aware of the driving rules in the NJ Parkway. But does it prohibit low-powered or slower vehicles from merging into the nearest fast lane (the one that one is merging into)? There are rules about vehicle weights, too. For example there are rules for not driving non-commercial and heavy vehicles through certain roads and neighborhoods...unless you are a resident in that specific neighborhood. In order to merge into the traffic, one must always wait until one can do it safely. There also are rules about maximum and minimum speeds, too. For example, as far as I remember the minimum speed in the Alaska highways (straightaway) is 45 MPH, while the maximum usually is 65. The speed limits are greatly reduced in road turns, and so on. Then driving too fast for road conditions is observed by the road police, even if one's car slides off the road at 30 MPH one can get a traffic ticket :)

By the way, I was trying to figure the rule about not towing in the NJ Parkway, and could not find the answer at the NJ state website. Maybe this?
 
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JT2002TJ

macrumors 68020
Nov 7, 2013
2,068
1,397
That's exactly what I was trying to tell you. The rule about not towing at the NJ parkway relates to towing safety, so all drivers should be aware of the driving rules in the NJ Parkway. But does it prohibit low-powered or slower vehicles from merging into the nearest fast lane (the one that one is merging into)? There are rules about vehicle weights, too. For example there are rules for driving non-commercial and heavy vehicles through certain roads and neighborhoods...unless you are a resident in that specific neighborhood.

Sorry, I’m not sure I understand your question or your point.

It is irrelevant what other drivers should or shouldn’t do. The fact remains that if you do not have a powerful enough tow rig, with a short on ramp, it can make for a dangerous experience. That was the point I was saying from the start when the question was raised about if one really needs the power of these modern pickup trucks. When you are towing in a less populated area, with adequate runways, sure, you don’t need it. But I can tell you from my towing experience on the East Coast (and mostly in the Maryland to Maine region) we have short on ramps, often combined with inclines, populated roads, and impatient drivers that if you are towing, you better have some power…
 
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