Exactly this! EV’s don’t work you hear. Then you find the most extreme case gets quoted as the norm.
Yet for many they work just fine.
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Who has or is planning to get an electric car / EV Talk
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Yet for many they work just fine.
200-300 miles a day or week. You quote both in your quote.
200-300 a day needs a bit of planning but is doable. But I doubt many of the population are doing that a day.
200-300 a week isn’t even an issue. Just charge when you are at home or work. No problem at all.
Disagree. The government (at the local, country, state and federal) gives out subsidies left, right and center for various purposes. Among the myriad of incentives and subsidies that are granted in the US, one of those subsidies is for EV adoption to the people, instead of to the businesses both large and small.
What? Are you taking the most extreme cases and making them the norm. There are many areas, which would benefit from reduced pollution from EVs. Going into the future the delivery of electricity might be different than you envision making owning an electric vehicle as easy as a gas car. After all, electricity is delivered to many places that don't have gas stations.
Again, the extreme example becomes the norm. My driving pattern has been constant for many years...about 50 miles a day. I finally put my fears about EVs to rest and bought a Model 3 LR. The federal government subsidy applied, a state subsidy applied, there was no sales tax on my purchase plus other market adjustments. It was a crackin' deal.
And my model 3 is perfect for my commuting pattern and I have a level 2 charger in my garage. There are people where EVs just work. For those where it doesn't due to lack of convenience; lack of charging; extreme weather conditions etc; petrol/diesel isn't going away.
Yea, every place I’ve worked, 80% of people live within 25 miles or so… but, it’s always the extreme that gets called out, whether it’s Alaska or people driving 300 miles/day, whatever…
I have said this a few times but I still wonder how a significant proportion of the population (UK and Europe wide) who are on minimum wage and have families will make the switch. We talk about what we perceive as ‘affordable’ EV’s, but the reality is the affordable extreme end is -£10k. Sure with depreciation maybe those people will be able to afford 10 year old EV’s in future, whilst inheriting the longterm costs of that, but I still don’t think this sector is being catered for sufficiently.
Theres factory workers where I work who drive 20 year old Ford Focuses, Toyota Yaris etc who wouldn’t spend over £3k-£6k on a car. When you factor in they have a couple of kids, I think auto makers are falling way short. It’s not like it’s a niche sector either.
Theres factory workers where I work who drive 20 year old Ford Focuses, Toyota Yaris etc who wouldn’t spend over £3k-£6k on a car. When you factor in they have a couple of kids, I think auto makers are falling way short. It’s not like it’s a niche sector either.
100% spot on.
If 80% could use, why do we focus 100% on the 20%? No one has ever said the EV’s available today can replace every single user case.
That is definitely an area they could improve on. There are some good low priced second hand options. But not new for sure.
Cheapest I found on Autotrader just now.
Not for me, but not too pricey.
If you think that 20-30% of the public drive 200-500 miles a day, I’m sorry but the facts don’t support that. As others have pointed out here, the average driver puts way fewer miles on a car than that. According to Kelley Blue Book that average is 37 miles per day. In fact, it is your argument that is focusing on 0.005% of the population. I don’t doubt that, for someone who really does drive that much, EVs might not be feasible, yet. But, in the meantime, they should work for anyone else who has access to charging. Even that qualification becomes less significant each year as the charging networks are built out.I have a lawyer friend who is about 200 miles per day 4-5 days a week. He ain’t got time to sit for hours charging.
Truck/delivery drivers.
Tech service and repair drivers can easily do that in a day especially for rural customers.
Is it the majority driving 500 miles a day no. I’m using an extreme example to emphasize the limitation.
There are a lot of drivers who drive a LOT more than 20 a day.
Even if you commute 100 miles to work a day, in most EV (especially in that more affordable price range), you are not making it back home another 100 without charging (especially in cold months) and that’s another hour lost in the day where you already have a lot of wasted time.
Not everyone lives and works in a city of 50,000 let alone 1,000,000. We are way off having half of every parking space a charger. Even with a full EV infrastructure and place imagine the number of stalls you have to have when everybody has to sit there for a freaking hour and charge if everyone is driving an electric car. There is a very metropolis focused tunnel vision on EV capability. There is a huge portion of the population that does not live in the city.
It’s ironic to me that for some issues and topics in culture we focus on the .005% of the population for equity yet for something like travel, and the freedom of being able to travel we’re fine forcing everyone to use a product that wouldn’t be usable for 20 to 30% of the population.
I’m already preparing to be annoyed as hell when I go to supercharger stations and have to see all the other piece of crap EV’s charging there and have to wait to even connect!
I’m just emphasizing that EV is not a panacea. I own one and love them. They have their place.
You are right that not everyone lives in an urban metropolis. Most people live in a suburban type of environment or in semi-rural areas immediately around the cities. Once you get a few miles beyond the city limits, the population density drops dramatically. the suburbs and satellite towns are ideal areas for EVS.
First mistake assuming he is sitting their hours charging is a mistake. A lot of EV easily in the range to handle the 200 miles in a day and then charge over night at home. Also any range shortage on your lawyer friend easily could be solved with a bio break range of fast charging. He is already force to get gas fairly often. Might as well combined that with another action. Bio break fast charge enough to finish off the day. If he is going to an office chances are could get set up to charge there covering the day's drive there.
fair enough but again debatable. Big time if they have to return back to a home back or a yard during the day as that could be setup to charge them covering a lot. Long haul truck driving yeah an issue.
Back to the lawyer example. They easily have to eat lunch at some point and still have bio issue to deal with. Fast charging during those times cover everything they would need to finish off the day and then fully charge over night.
Debating long term. Fast charging covers a lot as you still have to factor in bio issues that cover missing time. Right now bigger limitation.
True hence why level 2 charging can handle that. Home charing on 40 amp 240 v line is is 8.9 kw of power. at least 8 of which can go to the car. That is over 80kw/hr that can be put in the car over night while someone is sleeping. Hell even at 6 kw charger or less. Hell a dryer plug which can supply 24 amps of power (5.6 kw) of power can handle almost all cases over night.
Have a charger at work making this a non issue. Time is not wasted as the car is not moving. Plus very far edge case as 100 miles is a killer an huge edge case. I had a 55 mil drive each way and I know I was in a super minority of people driving at least that far. 110 mile a day well with in the range of most EVs.
Not every places needs a charger. The biggest one is getting power supplied at where people live and park their cars over night. Solve that at you cover 95% of the people in the country for 95% of their driving.
It’s ironic to me that for some issues and topics in culture we focus on the .005% of the population for equity yet for something like travel, and the freedom of being able to travel we’re fine forcing everyone to use a product that wouldn’t be usable for 20 to 30% of the population.
I’m already preparing to be annoyed as hell when I go to supercharger stations and have to see all the other piece of crap EV’s charging there and have to wait to even connect
I’m just emphasizing that EV is not a panacea. I own one and love them. They have their place.
You drive an EV so even you konw that most of the problems are fairly solvable. We need to push to have EV charging at homes at at least the 5kw power range for everyone and even include it in building code. It solves so many problems. We dont need to as many fast chargers as gas stations. We need more but come on I have driven my EV long distance in range of 6-7 hrs in a n ICE. My EV added an hour to that drive and mostly because the stopping points are just crap right now and limits some options. If their were better stopping points it would make some of the combine stops better and allow for easier time to get food and bio issues. Having a kid for me is the bigger limitation on driving.
Indeed. But in 5-10 years there will be even more options.
Had a Quick Look at the cheapest Tesla option.
Yes it’s not new or that cheap, but I think cars are just more expensive than they used to be. But they should also be good for a while.
In the UK all new builds have to have an EV charging point and off-road parking.
People act like there are 0 EVs that have the range when that isn’t true. You have to pay for the battery to get the range you want. Folks don’t want to pay, and that is fair.
Correct. One can buy a Civic with a range of 400 miles, but one would have to spend north of $80K to get an EV with a range of 400 miles.
That is the advantage of an energy dense fuel. 🤷🏽♂️
I don't think BEV's will ever be able to compete with that. At least for the folk that want to not stop anywhere for any length of time.
Maybe the EU/UK would be a good place to do battery swaps. Instead of plugging in to charge.
I don’t think people realize the prices of cars these days. I just looked at the Honda website, the civic starts at $24k USD. A RWD TM3 is in the $30k range. Yes, it doesn’t have the mileage per “tank” of a Civic, but the price gap isn’t as big as people make it seem. And that’s a compact ICE vs mid sized sedan.
Car prices are high. Before I got my TM3, for a mid sized sedan, there really wasn’t a gap at all.
As you, others and I have been saying, a vast majority of drivers drive less in a day than the average EV (even SR) range.
”Don’t make perfect the enemy of good”. If someone has to spend more time on a roadtrip with short fast charges, the time saved by not having to get gas on the average week nets a total positive time savings.
I use 30% daily (52 miles round trip) with the larger TMY battery. I easily could survive with a SR, but being in NY, I do not buy 2wd vehicles.
I don't think I'd want to drive 400 miles (over 5 hours!) without a break. But that's just me...
I don't think I'd want to drive 400 miles (over 5 hours!) without a break. But that's just me...
I used to do it when I was younger. I don’t think I would to it anymore, and definitely wouldn’t be able to get away with it with my family in the car.
Model 3 is a compact sedan. It’s only .8” bigger than the Civic.
M3 is not a compact sedan because of the internal room. It has the internal space of a mid sized sedan.
EPA classifies it as a mid sized car.
2022 Tesla Model 3 Long Range AWD
Fuel Economy of the 2022 Tesla Model 3 Long Range AWD. Compare the gas mileage and greenhouse gas emissions of the 2022 Tesla Model 3 Long Range AWD side-by-side with other cars and trucks
www.fueleconomy.gov
EDIT: the 4 door version of the Civic is also consider a Mid Sized as well.
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Cars have all gotten bigger, I didn’t realize how much bigger the civic has grown. I used to own a 2000 Civic DX 4 dr, at 6’2” I couldn’t comfortably sit anywhere in it (it was my wife’s car).
I wouldn‘t put a civic in the same all around class as a TM3/Y. A Civic just lacks too many features. My niece has a Civic Sport, it is nice, but no where nice enough to be in the same sentence as Tesla.
I wouldn‘t put a civic in the same all around class as a TM3/Y. A Civic just lacks too many features. My niece has a Civic Sport, it is nice, but no where nice enough to be in the same sentence as Tesla.
Exactly.
Civics were always smaller than the Accords.
But as the Accord grew... so did the Civic.
Hell... the Civic grew so much that they were able to introduce another model below it... the Honda Fit (or Jazz in other markets)
Craziness!
Didn't say they were necessarily competitors, just they are the same size and despite what the EPA says, sit in the "traditional" compact sedan space. Mid-sizers by how the OEM's line them up sit around 190" in size( Malibu, Camry). Then you have the full sizers of what remains of them( Avalon/Crowne) sitting around 196-200".
The point was about costs of vehicles. A civic used to be WAY cheaper ($15k). When a TM3 starts in the low $30k and a civic starts at $24k, when people say EVs are too expensive, it just not true anymore (At least in the US).
In other countries Tesla prices and not as competitive.
It wasn’t that long ago that in the US a well equipped 3-series, A4, C-Class were right around the $30k mark. I just saw 3-series now starting at $45k on their website.
Sure, but as you say yourself, they wouldn’t buy a new car anyway. With more EV sold every year, more come on the second-hand market. You can already get a fairly cheap Nissan Leaf’s. It takes time for 20-year-old EVs to be available to buy.
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