Who has or is planning to get an electric car / EV Talk

[4sallypat]

Wife and I test drove some EVs over the weekend - wife wanted to look at a full BEV after so many times she said she did not feel confident (range anxiety) driving a full BEV. She drives and loves her PHEV.

We drove: '23 BMW i4, '23 W iD4, and '23 TMY over the weekend.

• BMW was very stiff and bottoms out on dips very harshly.
• VW was very mute and felt like a mini van ride.
• Tesla drive was very strange (not used to display controlled driving & 1PD) - drive felt very stiff and stable - almost insulated from the outside. But we were amazed at the pricing ($44K-$7500 instant) due to the 2024 IRA rule. Tesla even had some in stock "inventory" TMY for $2500 less in addition to the $7500 tax POS credit which would dropped the price to under $34K which is just stunning because the BMW and VW weren't even close to that pricing. We were tempted by the TMY for sure!

She wants to wait for the TM3 '24 Highland version which is what brought us into Tesla. Even though the Highland won't have the $7500 instant credit, the starting price point is the same as an older '23 TM3 at $38K.

 

[jz0309]

Wife and I test drove some EVs over the weekend - wife wanted to look at a full BEV after so many times she said she did not feel confident (range anxiety) driving a full BEV. She drives and loves her PHEV.

We drove: '23 BMW i4, '23 W iD4, and '23 TMY over the weekend.

• BMW was very stiff and bottoms out on dips very harshly.
• VW was very mute and felt like a mini van ride.
• Tesla drive was very strange (not used to display controlled driving & 1PD) - drive felt very stiff and stable - almost insulated from the outside. But we were amazed at the pricing ($44K-$7500 instant) due to the 2024 IRA rule. Tesla even had some in stock "inventory" TMY for $2500 less in addition to the $7500 tax POS credit which would dropped the price to under $34K which is just stunning because the BMW and VW weren't even close to that pricing. We were tempted by the TMY for sure!

She wants to wait for the TM3 '24 Highland version which is what brought us into Tesla. Even though the Highland won't have the $7500 instant credit, the starting price point is the same as an older '23 TM3 at $38K.

yea, the TMY right now sure is a bargain ...
If you're up for it, or your wife, try out an Ioniq 5, they're discounted by 6-7k ...

 

[profcutter]

There’s a Toyota Model 3?

No it’s a Trabant model 3

 

[Herdfan]

Might be some cheap used EV's coming on the market now that Hertz is dumping 20,000 EV's from its fleet.

Hertz is dumping thousands of EVs. This may be why.

Hertz is selling 20,000 EVs, a chunk of its EV fleet. The reasons likely go beyond customer demand.

www.usatoday.com

 

[drrich2]

PCMag published an article on problems a lot of EV owners are having up in Chicago now:

'Don't Buy a Tesla': Chicago's EV Drivers Struggle With Sub-Zero Temperatures

Below-freezing temperatures are rapidly draining EV batteries across Chicago, meaning more tows and long lines to charge.

www.pcmag.com

I knew EV batteries were less effective in very cold temp.s, but I didn't know the real world practical impact was that bad. Something to think about if you live where it's sometimes very cold.

 

[diamond.g]

PCMag published an article on problems a lot of EV owners are having up in Chicago now:

'Don't Buy a Tesla': Chicago's EV Drivers Struggle With Sub-Zero Temperatures

Below-freezing temperatures are rapidly draining EV batteries across Chicago, meaning more tows and long lines to charge.

www.pcmag.com

I knew EV batteries were less effective in very cold temp.s, but I didn't know the real world practical impact was that bad. Something to think about if you live where it's sometimes very cold.

If you treat an EV like a gas powered car (WRT charging) then you will run into issues when it is cold out.

 

[jz0309]

If you treat an EV like a gas powered car (WRT charging) then you will run into issues when it is cold out.

not to mention that ICE cars have trouble in those temps too, eg not starting and such, but that doesn't generate as much clicks ...

 

[culo77]

PCMag published an article on problems a lot of EV owners are having up in Chicago now:

'Don't Buy a Tesla': Chicago's EV Drivers Struggle With Sub-Zero Temperatures

Below-freezing temperatures are rapidly draining EV batteries across Chicago, meaning more tows and long lines to charge.

www.pcmag.com

I knew EV batteries were less effective in very cold temp.s, but I didn't know the real world practical impact was that bad. Something to think about if you live where it's sometimes very cold.

That is by my neck of the woods. Technically it was a south west suburb of Chicago not the city (Evergreen Park). But from what I got from the folks "on the street" (not the "news") was many were first time winter EV owners and solely relied on Tesla public chargers and Volta free chargers. So it caused a swamp of emergency charges.

Stinks that if these folks knew the bitter cold weather reality of their vehicles, and the still subpar US public charging infrastructure, that they would have been prepared. And if the knowledge was there then this would have been a "story".

My wife's ICE car didn't start this weekend either her 12v battery couldn't handle the cold. My EV started but had reduced range. Bad weather just sucks.

 

[Tagbert]

not to mention that ICE cars have trouble in those temps too, eg not starting and such, but that doesn't generate as much clicks ...

I did see a report about gas pumps freezing in Calgary this past week.

Gas pumps freeze at Calgary gas stations [video] | Hacker News

news.ycombinator.com

 

[Michael Scrip]

I did see a report about gas pumps freezing in Calgary this past week.

Gas pumps freeze at Calgary gas stations [video] | Hacker News

news.ycombinator.com

We had to look it up!

 

[AlaskaMoose]

I did see a report about gas pumps freezing in Calgary this past week.

Gas pumps freeze at Calgary gas stations [video] | Hacker News

news.ycombinator.com

More than likely a problem with the pump, not the gas freezing

The 12-volt battery of an ice automobile can freeze and be damaged. The average lifespan is from three to five years, but only if they are well maintained, and not discharged. The electrolyte of a nearly discharged battery can freeze overnight, but if the battery is in a good state of charge it won't easily freeze . The four vehicles parked at the two driveways of my house start without any problems at -20 degrees F (-28.88889°C), but I plug the vehicles to electrical timers that are set to operate for a period of 2-3 hours before each vehicle is started before driving) when the ambient temperature is colder than -10 degrees F. This applies to 12 VDC lead-acid batteries:

Lead Acid Battery Freezing Point Temperature vs State Of Charge

A chart showing flooded lead acid battery freezing point temperature versus its state of charge.

modernsurvivalblog.com

A little more detail… The exact numbers vary a bit, depending on a few factors. A fully charged (lead acid) battery will freeze. But not until temperatures drop to -94°F (-70 °C)! That’s pretty much not going to happen anywhere here on earth, right?!

 

[AlaskaMoose]

This is what happened to the fuel pumps:

 

[cyb3rdud3]

PCMag published an article on problems a lot of EV owners are having up in Chicago now:

'Don't Buy a Tesla': Chicago's EV Drivers Struggle With Sub-Zero Temperatures

Below-freezing temperatures are rapidly draining EV batteries across Chicago, meaning more tows and long lines to charge.

www.pcmag.com

I knew EV batteries were less effective in very cold temp.s, but I didn't know the real world practical impact was that bad. Something to think about if you live where it's sometimes very cold.

First thing I learned was my ABC - Always Be Charging. It is one of the biggest advantages of an EV versus an ICE that you can charge whilst doing other stuff. Don't run it down, just plug it in at every opportunity. Now the majority of those opportunities are at home. But there are plenty of others like at your favourite supermarket, restaurant, heck even our doctors surgery has 4 chargers.

But also not all cars are the same, I'm pretty smug with our Polestar doing 210miles with 90% state of charge at sustained subzero temperatures and a battery reduced power (don't read too much in that as there is plenty left of those 476 horses). That is with climate control on 20 degrees celsius (yay heat pump), heated seat and steering wheel on maximum power.

Something feels weird about that story though, as I'm pretty sure Tesla are pretty good as well in those kinds of conditions.

 

[I7guy]

First thing I learned was my ABC - Always Be Charging. It is one of the biggest advantages of an EV versus an ICE that you can charge whilst doing other stuff. Don't run it down, just plug it in at every opportunity. Now the majority of those opportunities are at home. But there are plenty of others like at your favourite supermarket, restaurant, heck even our doctors surgery has 4 chargers.

But also not all cars are the same, I'm pretty smug with our Polestar doing 210miles with 90% state of charge at sustained subzero temperatures and a battery reduced power (don't read too much in that as there is plenty left of those 476 horses). That is with climate control on 20 degrees celsius (yay heat pump), heated seat and steering wheel on maximum power.

Something feels weird about that story though, as I'm pretty sure Tesla are pretty good as well in those kinds of conditions.

The use case for an EV with a low state of charge sitting in freezing temperatures for hours (much like and ice vehicle) is the worst possible scenario for range.

This is where having a level 2 charger at home, even if the car sits outside is a real benefit.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

The use case for an EV with a low state of charge sitting in freezing temperatures for hours (much like and ice vehicle) is the worst possible scenario for range.

This is where having a level 2 charger at home, even if the car sits outside is a real benefit.

Agreed. A battery state of charge is not exact science. Arriving with a warm battery stating 5% can easily be a 0% battery when freezing cold. Again ABC, always be charging, don’t leave it like that just plug it in and you have no issue whatsoever.

 

[4sallypat]

The use case for an EV with a low state of charge sitting in freezing temperatures for hours (much like and ice vehicle) is the worst possible scenario for range.

This is where having a level 2 charger at home, even if the car sits outside is a real benefit.

Glad to know this - ABC is my norm at home on L2 charger - always charged to 100% never knowing if the power grid goes down or a disaster strikes.

And I don't experience cold weather like the rest of the country.

Southern California - mid 70's - T shirt & shorts this week - makes one wonder how it's like to live in a cold weather climate....

 

[quagmire]

I always am confused by those that have the means to ABC, but don't. They charge to 80% and don't recharge until 30%.

It's not saving the battery from degradation, it's not reducing their electricity bill, etc.

People are trying too hard to operate an EV like their phone/laptop/tablet or an ICE vehicle. Those that are having issues in the cold are discovering why they need to readjust.

Of course if they don't have the means to plug in at home( or have to rely on 120V charging*), an EV is not for them right now.

*Rely on 120 and live where it gets cold. If live in a warm climate, 120V can be fine. But in the winter, 120V does not supply enough power to charge the battery, warm the car, and warm the battery.

 

[Apple fanboy]

Glad to know this - ABC is my norm at home on L2 charger - always charged to 100% never knowing if the power grid goes down or a disaster strikes.

And I don't experience cold weather like the rest of the country.

Southern California - mid 70's - T shirt & shorts this week - makes one wonder how it's like to live in a cold weather climate....

lol. Sat here at 15 degrees in more clothes than you probably own. 1 degrees outside tops (centigrade obviously). Feeling jealous!

As for my EV I don’t really notice much difference in range at these temperatures. Maybe 10-20 miles less. I still plug in about once a week.

 

[Apple fanboy]

I always am confused by those that have the means to ABC, but don't. They charge to 80% and don't recharge until 30%.

It's not saving the battery from degradation, it's not reducing their electricity bill, etc.

People are trying too hard to operate an EV like their phone/laptop/tablet or an ICE vehicle. Those that are having issues in the cold are discovering why they need to readjust.

Of course if they don't have the means to plug in at home( or have to rely on 120V charging*), an EV is not for them right now.

*Rely on 120 and live where it gets cold. If live in a warm climate, 120V can be fine. But in the winter, 120V does not supply enough power to charge the battery, warm the car, and warm the battery.

Just easier to just plug in once a week for me. It’s enough for my commute twice a week. If I go in a third day I charge twice that week.

 

[quagmire]

Just easier to just plug in once a week for me. It’s enough for my commute twice a week. If I go in a third day I charge twice that week.

How is it easier?

 

[Apple fanboy]

How is it easier?

Well for one you don’t have to plug in in the rain or whatever.
If I charge for 4 hours once a week whilst I’m at work or home verses 2 x hours twice a week what’s the difference?
Or to answer your question another way.

How is it any harder?

 

[quagmire]

Well for one you don’t have to plug in in the rain or whatever.
If I charge for 4 hours once a week whilst I’m at work or home verses 2 x hours twice a week what’s the difference?
Or to answer your question another way.

How is it any harder?

You're using the battery to condition the car( warm the cabin/battery, cool the car down, etc) vs using house power to accomplish it.

You're also increasing wear to the battery. Charging every day 10% is less stressful to the battery than charging 40% in one session.

If plugging in the rain is harder and you're fine with the downsides of that, then that is your choice.

I am still left confused.

 

[Apple fanboy]

You're using the battery to condition the car( warm the cabin/battery, cool the car down, etc) vs using house power to accomplish it.

You're also increasing wear to the battery. Charging every day 10% is less stressful to the battery than charging 40% in one session.

If plugging in the rain is harder and you're fine with the downsides of that, then that is your choice.

I am still left confused.

I think you are overthinking this.
Why would I charge the car 10% a day when I use the car on average twice a week? I just plug it in and when it gets to 100% it’s done. I drive home (uses about 15% each way). Next time I drive in no need to charge. The time after that I do the same?

 

[cyb3rdud3]

I think you are overthinking this.
Why would I charge the car 10% a day when I use the car on average twice a week? I just plug it in and when it gets to 100% it’s done. I drive home (uses about 15% each way). Next time I drive in no need to charge. The time after that I do the same?

Sure, you clearly do barely any miles. And don't seem to have unexpected events coming up.

Personally, we just plug in every day. Such that every day we start with 90% of battery capacity, which is sufficient for 95% of journeys including surprises. When letting it run down and an unexpected event happens, it may not be useful to have it at say 30%. Furthermore, many UK electricity contracts give considerable discounts for several hours a day. We get 5 hours at 9 pence. Letting it go down too much could mean that it can't be topped up within the discounted window. Now that isn't a huge issue, but it could mean that it needs two or three days for that window to be topped up again. And then there is the concept of ABC, once used to it, you'll be prepared for anything.

I really fail to see what the bother is to plug it in when you have home charging anyway!? I mean you come home, get out of the car, plug in the charger and go inside the house. What is hard about that?

 

[cyb3rdud3]

You're using the battery to condition the car( warm the cabin/battery, cool the car down, etc) vs using house power to accomplish it.

Exactly that, a much more efficient way of doing that.

You're also increasing wear to the battery. Charging every day 10% is less stressful to the battery than charging 40% in one session.

I doubt that makes a material difference on an AC charger.

If plugging in the rain is harder and you're fine with the downsides of that, then that is your choice.

I am still left confused.

I guess it is habit combined with a very predictable travel pattern. It could work for some, our lives are too changeable to. Just imagine; daughter doesn't like the club and people they are out with, is in trouble, call me to pick her up and I'll have to say no because the car is at 20% and I'll have to charge it for 4 hours first For us that is just not worth it.