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cyb3rdud3

macrumors 601
Jun 22, 2014
4,048
2,724
UK
Our chargers don't all take payments directly on them. I have yet to actually see one that does (they do exist). They all require you sign up for an app. So, you HAVE to have your phone. I can drive my car using my backup RFID card, but I can't charge outside of Tesla without a phone.

Not that I really NEED to charge outside of Tesla on a regular basis.
Yup for once our politicians have been useful, and sorted that mess. And with plug-and-charge being an ISO standard, that can become automatic as well. All we need now is realistic prices as they are all over the place. But in reality we rarely need to charge in public, predominantly just at home nice and cheap, and soon free of charge :)
 

Apple fanboy

macrumors Ivy Bridge
Feb 21, 2012
56,907
55,844
Behind the Lens, UK
I'm not sure you can... I guess you could change the card on file, but I don't know how long the delay would be. But if I was going to have a business card, I would use a 3rd party charger and put that work card on file there.

But most people here with business milage, end up submitting miles and get reimbursed for mileage. Most people I know with company cards, also have a company car, so if it was a Tesla, you would use that card for the payment, and only drive the car for work.
Only drive the car for work! Lol Because that's what people really do with company cars! ;)
 

thettareddast

macrumors 6502
Aug 29, 2016
398
535
When we use 3rd party charges, many of them require an app, there is no user interface (no card system) on the machine. So you have to have your phone to get an app, then create an account, and add funds. I still have a couple dollars on an account that I didn't use all up for a L2 charger.
Ive encounter 1 very very good implementation with a Danish charging station.

I scanned the QR with my iPhone, somehow it instantly loaded a virtual app (aka containerized app, i didnt need to search for or install anything).

On that ‘app’ it offered apple payment, which of course pulled payment from the phone, so i didnt have to manually enter payment information.

No search, no installation, no registration, no confirmation of registration, no typing in addresses and financial details. Most seamless 3rd party charger ive ever encountered. But most are still nowhere as easy.
 

JT2002TJ

macrumors 68020
Nov 7, 2013
2,057
1,386
Ive encounter 1 very very good implementation with a Danish charging station.

I scanned the QR with my iPhone, somehow it instantly loaded a virtual app (aka containerized app, i didnt need to search for or install anything).

On that ‘app’ it offered apple payment, which of course pulled payment from the phone, so i didnt have to manually enter payment information.

No search, no installation, no registration, no confirmation of registration, no typing in addresses and financial details. Most seamless 3rd party charger ive ever encountered. But most are still nowhere as easy.

This is the next move in mobile apps, we do not have it yet in the US, but Apple was forced (kicking and screaming) into implementing it in Europe to meet the standards. Apple doesn't like it because it is outside of the App Store, so they can't force their payment structure on them.

Problem with this still is, that you need your cell phone, and internet. And in the US at least, I'll bet a bunch of charger companies will pre-bill you, so you are forced to leave a chunk of money in their hands.
 

JT2002TJ

macrumors 68020
Nov 7, 2013
2,057
1,386
Only drive the car for work! Lol Because that's what people really do with company cars! ;)

There are a lot of people here in that situation. The company vehicles have GPS tracking (speed, location, duration). If you are using it for non-company purposes, you can lose your job. Your company is insuring the vehicle for work purposes, not for personal activities.

I'm sure in the US, there are more company vehicles not for personal use vs. being able to use company vehicles for personal use. Just by the numbers.

An even larger number use personal vehicles and get reimbursed by mileage.
 

CaptTee

macrumors member
Feb 3, 2023
30
10
Florida
I am SOOOOO ready to get an EV.
And while I looked at others, it is very hard to beat a Tesla.
Just the "gimmicks" alone are a attractive (and I am not a gimmick guy).
It is so UN-like a car.

I am not going in blind, Engineering Explained has great critical videos on his experience with EV's.
He does a good job of a neutral review of the basic, and is critical of somethings, but so far not enough salt to discount a Tesla.

In past I was considering a Leaf and a Volt (and other plug-in). Ironically Prius Plugin is not on lots in Texas, dealer does not say why.
And I do not go to country like I used to, so almost all in a (very big) city.

What you fine folks think?
I wouldn't buy one, but I really like this review. https://tuckercarlson.com/tucker-cybertruck It goes into all the pros and cons of having one in a rural area.
 

WC7

macrumors 6502
Dec 13, 2018
392
295
I wouldn't buy one, but I really like this review. https://tuckercarlson.com/tucker-cybertruck It goes into all the pros and cons of having one in a rural area.
I am still waiting for a lighter EV and interested to see the one of those Smart cars from Europe, but probably they will supersize them for US. Seems that Teslas will be under some pressure with even newer designs but I am leaning to other manufacturers if they can give me CarPlay!
 

WC7

macrumors 6502
Dec 13, 2018
392
295
One more thing ... do EVs pay higher road taxes for their extra weight over ICE cars? I always wondered how much taxes are paid for their greater stresses on roads. Maybe it isn't important for the life of roads yet because there are fewer Evs but if there are more and more you would think roads would be affected??
 

JT2002TJ

macrumors 68020
Nov 7, 2013
2,057
1,386
One more thing ... do EVs pay higher road taxes for their extra weight over ICE cars? I always wondered how much taxes are paid for their greater stresses on roads. Maybe it isn't important for the life of roads yet because there are fewer Evs but if there are more and more you would think roads would be affected??

Some EVs are actually heavier than ICEs, but now a days ICEs are really really heavy.

2024 TM3 - 3,862 to 4,054 lbs
2025 MB C class - 3,825 to 4,165 lbs

2024 TMY - 4,154 to 4,398 lbs
2025 MB GLE - 4,916 lbs

This is the best I can find right now.
 

WC7

macrumors 6502
Dec 13, 2018
392
295
Some EVs are actually heavier than ICEs, but now a days ICEs are really really heavy.

2024 TM3 - 3,862 to 4,054 lbs
2025 MB C class - 3,825 to 4,165 lbs

2024 TMY - 4,154 to 4,398 lbs
2025 MB GLE - 4,916 lbs

This is the best I can find right now.
Thank you ... Wow!

I was looking at my VW Beetle which is ~3000 lbs and the Jetta around the same. Maybe I do need one of those heavier MBs to protect me from EVs! Hahaha.
 

hobowankenobi

macrumors 68020
Aug 27, 2015
2,119
931
on the land line mr. smith.
Thank you ... Wow!

I was looking at my VW Beetle which is ~3000 lbs and the Jetta around the same. Maybe I do need one of those heavier MBs to protect me from EVs! Hahaha.
Vehicle weights have all been climbing for years. I expect it is fueled primarily by safety, but overall build quality and the volume of features and tech included may be adding the bottom line. While there are some heavy EVs....from what I have seen new EVs are typically about the same weight as current ICE vehicles of the same size and class.

And, if (when) we see energy density increase throughout the industry, we could see EV weights actually fall, unless range is also increased (to use the same volume/weight of cell material).
 
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Tagbert

macrumors 603
Jun 22, 2011
6,235
7,270
Seattle
One more thing ... do EVs pay higher road taxes for their extra weight over ICE cars? I always wondered how much taxes are paid for their greater stresses on roads. Maybe it isn't important for the life of roads yet because there are fewer Evs but if there are more and more you would think roads would be affected??
As other’s have said, the weights are not as disparate as you might expect.

As for fees, many states have setup higher annual registration fees for EV to compensate for the lack of gas tax revenue. In a lot of those states the EV annual fee is higher than what a typical car pays in gas taxes. It’s not like EVs are getting a free ride.
 

I7guy

macrumors Nehalem
Nov 30, 2013
35,142
25,214
Gotta be in it to win it
Some EVs are actually heavier than ICEs, but now a days ICEs are really really heavy.

2024 TM3 - 3,862 to 4,054 lbs
2025 MB C class - 3,825 to 4,165 lbs

2024 TMY - 4,154 to 4,398 lbs
2025 MB GLE - 4,916 lbs

This is the best I can find right now.
A TM3 performance weights about 4000 lbs and costs $55K. A BMW M3 competition xdrive weighs about 4000 lbs and cost $85K. I saw a video on youtube that drag raced both cars. With launch control the M3 was slightly faster in the drag race, winning by less than one car length. Without launch control the TM3P smoked the BMW. I think if you look at luxury cars that can keep up with let's say the TM3P I'll bet many are portly. If you look at the list of cars that are faster than a TM3P they are supercars, plus the Plaid, which smokes them all. In addition, using launch control excessively on an ice engine cannot be good for it in the long run.

And clearly fast acceleration will lead to increased tire wear.
 

AlaskaMoose

macrumors 68040
Apr 26, 2008
3,585
13,429
Alaska
People love to go out of their way to explain why they dont like or want something.

When the thread ask "who plans to get an electric car", the intent of that question is to signal and identify those people who do want one, to participate in the discussion. It is not meant as a survey of who doesn't want one.

When you gather friends over and ask "who wants a drink", the purpose is to know how many drinks to serve. People wouldnt answer "not me", because that's not a very useful answer.

This is very normal social convention, it is not something complex and sophisticated.
In reality, the person you are referring to already explained his reasons for not wanting an EV, because several participants in this forum pressed him to do so. The same happened to me in this thread sometime ago and I had to explain several times that my stance is not one of being an anti-EV. In relation to the person above, you would have to read all his responses starting a few pages back.

When you gather friends and ask, "Who wants a drink?", some will say "yes", while others "no," and some may even say that they reasons to not drink, or that they don't feel well, or that they have to drive, and so on.
----------------------

Ibn relation to EVs being heavier that ICE automobiles, perhaps by average they are. However there are several lightweight EV models, some Tesla and well as some of the European models. Apple Fanboy drives one of the very lightweight EV's I am referring to. But some US-made EV trucks are extremely heavy. For example some of the Hummer trucks weight in excess of 8,800 pounds. A great portion of this weight is because of the very large battery and heavy motors. In future years it may be possible to design EV's and ICE automobiles with greater drive ranges than most automobiles of today. As it is now, greater range and HP requires higher capacity batteries, or smaller and lighter turbo-charged engines.
 
Last edited:

avro707

macrumors 68020
Dec 13, 2010
2,254
1,641
As other’s have said, the weights are not as disparate as you might expect.
A Rolls Royce Wraith is about 2440kg, a RR Spectre (electric) is 2965 kg, so there is a difference but not as enormous as you might expect.

BMW i7 is 2,715 kg, while the regular G70 7 series is 2,075–2,270 kg.
 
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JT2002TJ

macrumors 68020
Nov 7, 2013
2,057
1,386
A TM3 performance weights about 4000 lbs and costs $55K. A BMW M3 competition xdrive weighs about 4000 lbs and cost $85K. I saw a video on youtube that drag raced both cars. With launch control the M3 was slightly faster in the drag race, winning by less than one car length. Without launch control the TM3P smoked the BMW. I think if you look at luxury cars that can keep up with let's say the TM3P I'll bet many are portly. If you look at the list of cars that are faster than a TM3P they are supercars, plus the Plaid, which smokes them all. In addition, using launch control excessively on an ice engine cannot be good for it in the long run.

And clearly fast acceleration will lead to increased tire wear.

Yup. Just a note though, that wasn't just a regular BMW M3. That was a CS, which is a very limited edition within the already limited M3 lineup. The CS costs in the range of $125k. The regular M3 wouldn't have beat the TM3P even with launch control. I think the CS is lighter and slightly faster than the Competition models which are lighter and faster than the regular M3. But I'm not really up to date with BMW stuff.
 

diamond.g

macrumors G4
Mar 20, 2007
11,406
2,639
OBX
The annoying bit in the Hagerty video is if they kept the Tesla out of track mode it probably would have done better. Tesla should add a drag strip mode to the track mode options so the car doesn't try to cool the battery (that reduces max discharge, lowering peak power output).


The ROW Performance 3's are just screwed in general since they use LG batteries.
 

cyb3rdud3

macrumors 601
Jun 22, 2014
4,048
2,724
UK
Yup. Just a note though, that wasn't just a regular BMW M3. That was a CS, which is a very limited edition within the already limited M3 lineup. The CS costs in the range of $125k. The regular M3 wouldn't have beat the TM3P even with launch control. I think the CS is lighter and slightly faster than the Competition models which are lighter and faster than the regular M3. But I'm not really up to date with BMW stuff.
Still, valid :)

My wife had an M2 Competition; and yes, it is down on power, it won't win a drag race either. But OMFG it was a special car to drive, and when you are on the back roads, or a track, it truly comes into its own. And no Tesla Performance will give you that feeling. And not just a Tesla, there are plenty of like x35i/40i boys and girls who on paper , and perhaps in a straight line as well, are faster. But it just isn't the same. And LOL, its range is less than nearly any EV. Its petrol tank is stupidly small, we had to fill it up three times a week. Nonetheless a proper M car is something special.
 
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HDFan

Contributor
Jun 30, 2007
7,261
3,318
Interesting article in the London Times:

Cost of driving electric car up to twice the price of petrol or diesel​

Motorists without space at home to charge their cars are facing prohibitively high costs at public facilities​


The average electric car travels 3.3 miles for every kWh of electricity used, meaning rapid and ultra-rapid chargers currently cost the equivalent of 24.1p per mile while slower chargers cost 16.4p per mile.

However, the average diesel travels 43 miles per gallon, meaning a cost of 12.5p per mile at current forecourt prices. The average petrol car costs 14.5p a mile.

charging at home costs 7.8p per mile.
The cheapest night-time electricity rate — known as Economy 7 because it operates for seven hours between midnight and 7am — charges just 6.7p per kWh, meaning a cost of just 2p per mile.

 

Apple fanboy

macrumors Ivy Bridge
Feb 21, 2012
56,907
55,844
Behind the Lens, UK
Interesting article in the London Times:

Cost of driving electric car up to twice the price of petrol or diesel​

Motorists without space at home to charge their cars are facing prohibitively high costs at public facilities​


The average electric car travels 3.3 miles for every kWh of electricity used, meaning rapid and ultra-rapid chargers currently cost the equivalent of 24.1p per mile while slower chargers cost 16.4p per mile.

However, the average diesel travels 43 miles per gallon, meaning a cost of 12.5p per mile at current forecourt prices. The average petrol car costs 14.5p a mile.

charging at home costs 7.8p per mile.
The cheapest night-time electricity rate — known as Economy 7 because it operates for seven hours between midnight and 7am — charges just 6.7p per kWh, meaning a cost of just 2p per mile.

Off peak charging at home can be as low as 2.7p an kWh (Octopus Agile).

If you have to rely on rapid charging, then it’s hard to make it pay.

But most EV owners charge at home.

I also average 4.3 miles for every KWh which helps. As does changing at work for free.
 
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cyb3rdud3

macrumors 601
Jun 22, 2014
4,048
2,724
UK
Interesting article in the London Times:

Cost of driving electric car up to twice the price of petrol or diesel​

Motorists without space at home to charge their cars are facing prohibitively high costs at public facilities​


The average electric car travels 3.3 miles for every kWh of electricity used, meaning rapid and ultra-rapid chargers currently cost the equivalent of 24.1p per mile while slower chargers cost 16.4p per mile.

However, the average diesel travels 43 miles per gallon, meaning a cost of 12.5p per mile at current forecourt prices. The average petrol car costs 14.5p a mile.

charging at home costs 7.8p per mile.
The cheapest night-time electricity rate — known as Economy 7 because it operates for seven hours between midnight and 7am — charges just 6.7p per kWh, meaning a cost of just 2p per mile.

Yup if I couldn’t charge at my own tarifff I wouldn’t get one. Public charging is all of the place. But as 95% of journeys start and end at home it rarely matters.
 

HDFan

Contributor
Jun 30, 2007
7,261
3,318
But most EV owners charge at home.

But as 95% of journeys start and end at home

From the same article:

"the problem is that nearly half of Britain’s households live in flats or terraced properties, meaning most have no driveway or garage to allow at-home charging. In Britain’s biggest cities, three quarters of households live in flats or terraced homes."
 

cyb3rdud3

macrumors 601
Jun 22, 2014
4,048
2,724
UK
From the same article:

"the problem is that nearly half of Britain’s households live in flats or terraced properties, meaning most have no driveway or garage to allow at-home charging. In Britain’s biggest cities, three quarters of households live in flats or terraced homes."
That is no wholly accurate, but yes there situations where there is a cost. Likewise my properties with driveways cost more, and I’ve also got a flat with undrtground carpark with charging and that cost more than one without

Cest la vie
 

Apple fanboy

macrumors Ivy Bridge
Feb 21, 2012
56,907
55,844
Behind the Lens, UK
From the same article:

"the problem is that nearly half of Britain’s households live in flats or terraced properties, meaning most have no driveway or garage to allow at-home charging. In Britain’s biggest cities, three quarters of households live in flats or terraced homes."
Somewhere between 30-40% I read. But there are some great schemes for those that don’t have a drive or garage.
1726934820429.png

This will only get better with time. No new housing stock is being built in the UK without off street parking.
 
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