I’d choose a BMW over a Tesla because of the idrive and buttons. But I don’t feel it’s worth going over this again. I’m never buying a Tesla. They are not for me.
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Who has or is planning to get an electric car / EV Talk
- Thread starter PracticalMac
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Exactly, loads of plastic buttons do not make an interior premium. But nonetheless people have their own opinions and we debate those opinions ad-museum.
Like the inconveniences of ice that we all grew with, buttons, levers, knibs, widgets, ungapotch are another frontier in challenging change.
I get it. Some like buttons, others don't. For me, if it comes down to having buttons, and being forced to use them because of the inadequate OS, I would prefer less/minimum buttons and the OS manage the need.
It really just highlights the lack of OS (infotainment) development in other manufacturers. I would have no issue if there were buttons AND the OS was advanced as Tesla's. But so far, I think other manufacturers have used physical buttons as a crutch to not improve their OS'. There just are so many things that they need to implement to be modern.
I think Tesla's OS has forced other manufacturers to realize this, but they are just so far behind.
I just watched the YouTube video of How to use BMW iDrive by Two Chaps. Amusing tutorial.
Audi likely has buttons because their customers prefer them, hence why VW put buttons back in the later ID3 and Golf MK8 after complaints they were too touchscreen heavy. The lack of physical buttons in a Tesla is a negative for me, in contrast to what you would see as a positive, so it probably comes down to personal taste. I wouldn't want to rely on a connection if this connection prevents the car being driven if there is an issue which is a fairly regular problem where I am, especially internet and cellular. The lack of indicator stalks was a problem when I drove the TM3 and I know many say you get used to it after a while but I found I just wasn't indicating on roundabouts as the button moves with the wheel to awkward positions. If there is one thing I would like to see Tesla change, it is putting stalks back for the European market. It probably works great in places where it is mostly intersections and blocks, but not when you have to negotiate a dozen roundabouts daily.
Happy to agree to disagree on the feel of the interior finishes, we don't need to convince each other of this as we both have experience to judge for ourselves.
Other manufacturers, especially the German ones are not relying purely on touchscreens because they can't work it out or have the innovative mindset Tesla do, they are keeping certain buttons due to customer feedback. Tesla have certainly pushed other makers to up their game in the infotainment arena, but people still buy other brands too, and adults of all ages have different preferneces.
Volkswagen to bring back buttons after complaints about its touchscreen
After complaints about its touchscreen-heavy interiors, the German brand is bringing back more good, old-fashioned physical buttons.
electrek.co
Would a Tesla be suitable for someone elderly who doesn't use a smartphone? I don't know the answer to this as I am asking. I have a more limited experience with them.
VAG had to put buttons back in because they couldn't successfully execute an infotainment system. I have no issues with putting buttons back it. But buttons or not, they have to do something about their garbage infotainment system. There is no reason that Tesla should be so far ahead... VAG is specifically what I was thinking of when I said they use buttons as a crutch and this move cemented it for me. Many theorize the injection of funds into Rivian is to get help with their infotainment system...
I agree with you on the removal of stalks. I think, much like the removal of USS, Tesla put the cart before the horse. Vehicles without USS couldn't use vision-based parking/summons for a long time, while the developers had to play catchup. The same is with the removal of stalks, we aren't 100% there yet with FSDs where the driver doesn't need to drive themselves. I can do about 90% of my driving with FSDs, and others may not have the same %, but either way there is a % where drivers need to drive themselves. And for the UK and other foreign markets FSDs isn't even an option. I think they removed it with the expectation that drivers won't need to use them much.
Also, with Tesla's OS, it automatically cancels the indicators based on vision, not turning of the wheel. This is an awesome design. So, it will remain on until it should be shut off, and it will correctly shut itself off. I haven't had to turn off or even do a Euro style lane change partial indicator since switching to Tesla. I turn it on, and it will stay on until I have completed my lane shift.
Other manufacturers, especially the German ones are not relying purely on touchscreens because they can't work it out or have the innovative mindset Tesla do, they are keeping certain buttons due to customer feedback. Tesla have certainly pushed other makers to up their game in the infotainment arena, but people still buy other brands too, and adults of all ages have different preferneces.
Volkswagen to bring back buttons after complaints about its touchscreen
After complaints about its touchscreen-heavy interiors, the German brand is bringing back more good, old-fashioned physical buttons.
Would a Tesla be suitable for someone elderly who doesn't use a smartphone? I don't know the answer to this as I am asking. I have a more limited experience with them.
See my post about VAG and their lack of a good infotainment as to why they needed to bring back buttons...
Yes to someone elderly being able to use a Tesla. Once everything is set, you don't interact with the infotainment system as much as you think. Someone elderly is likely to set their temp the same year-round, and doesn't jump between audio stations like the tik Tok generation (short attention span)...
You can't look at VAG and be like see, that's the right move... They failed and had to retreat. If they had a successful infotainment system (like Tesla and Rivian) and then they had to revert to buttons, then it would be proof...
I would be seriously against FSD here and our roads are a little more challenging on average than in the States I would imagine as they are narrower and more winding in many rural routes. We don't have the expanses of land here like you guys do and our cities with the exception of Milton Keynes, are not grids. I think there would be too much to go wrong, but as technology matures I am open to changing my own mind on that.
Indicators generally automatically shut off via a mechanical switch within the steering column. The issue I had with the TM3 was actually activating it whilst the wheel is turned 160º and you have to look down for where the button is. I found that awkward and distracting. It would be cool if indicators activated based on the sat nav maybe, but a physical stalk is even better IMO.
The infotainment in our Q4 isn't brilliant as I have said before, its good and does what we need as it has Apple CarPlay, but am happy to say Tesla perhaps do it better. There are other aspects of our car that are better than tesla though, so its about assessing the pros and cons. The only Tesla we could consider last year was a Model Y as it had the boot size needed for our family. My wife didn't like the design of the car and there was no budging on it, and she wanted to spend up to her budget so it was her decision ultimately. I prefer the new TM3 for the improvements its made, but sadly these haven't been transferred to its stretched sibling yet. My wife still dislikes Tesla's so if we ever have one on our drive (I wouldn't rule it out) it'll be my commute car.
I live in the suburbs of NYC and use FSDs in NYC. It works well. Yes there are times when you have to take over, but in general if it can handle NYC and Long Island, it can handle the UK/Europe. It just needs training data and it will take time.
I agree about the initiating of the indicators via steering wheel button being an issue. The good thing is with Tesla's OS, button or stalk, the remaining on and canceling is solved. Something I think other manufacturers could benefit from, instead of relying on steering wheel position. I don't know how many times I've been getting on a 4-leaf on ramp and the indicator shuts off on the on ramp before I even attempt to merge.
That is really a small slice of the human population imo assuming this persona of an elderly technophobe can actually drive safely.
I agree there are good and bad with all. But specifically with the infotainment system, Tesla is the king, Rivian is a close second. BMW is catching up.
Your pricing of Tesla's also isn't like we have it here. Here there really isn't any competition in the price range (for what you get) EV or ICE. I will probably get the redesigned TMY at some point down the road, to replace my 2019 TM3. I like the size of the TMY better.
Going back to FSDs. My parents are in their late 80's, and live alone in a remote part of their town. They have a hard time getting around, and don't like driving, but still have to shop, visit doctors, and other things. We need to solve the issue of vehicles driving themselves, so people like my parents, or even younger people without the physical ability to drive have access to transportation. We need to keep pushing, and I'm on-board with every way attempted with or without USS, Radar, Vision-based, Lidar, whatever else. We need to get it available and have it be inexpensive so everyone can have access.
x2, and this is where the push for Driver Assistance, FSDs, comes into play. Someday they won't need to push buttons or even have to drive...
It’s a dying part of the population but there are still tens of millions of these sorts of people left.
Correct but the issue is not can they drive a Tesla safely, but can they drive safely, period.
It "drives" slower on rural roads. Which is fine if everyone goes slow, but can be annoying when folks expect you to do 10 over the speed limit.
I don't know, that is an entirely different subject altogether. My father doesn't use a smartphone but is still a competent driver. I'm sure there is a contingent who aren't good drivers and I know plenty of people in their early 20's who I wouldn't feel safe in a car with too.
There probably is a segment of the elderly population where Teslas and EVs in general are out of reach. If it’s not the touchscreen, it’s the charging and if not the charging the regen settings and on and on. Gas turn the key, out it in drive and go.
The fact that you don’t feel safe with 20 something’s is not a lack of capability issue as what happens when we age it’s an attention issue competing for social media and safe driving, driving loses.
In NYC, there are a ton of Tesla 3/Ys used as taxicabs. Anything that is "generic taxicab" is not premium.
My view is Tesla interiors are table stakes these days. Back in 2012 when Tesla came out with this interior style, it was premium. But that was 12 years ago, and today other car companies have caught up and surpassed. Yet other than some superficial changes, the interior of a Tesla today is roughly the same as it was 12 years ago (indeed, the seats are worse today than back then). Just about every new car with an MSRP of over $20k in 2024 has an interior that is equal to, or better than, Tesla's interior because they have to be. It's a must have, it's something every journalist will compare against, it's something every buyer is going to expect. As always happens, what was premium 12 years ago has become the table stakes today.
My view is Tesla interiors are table stakes these days. Back in 2012 when Tesla came out with this interior style, it was premium. But that was 12 years ago, and today other car companies have caught up and surpassed. Yet other than some superficial changes, the interior of a Tesla today is roughly the same as it was 12 years ago (indeed, the seats are worse today than back then). Just about every new car with an MSRP of over $20k in 2024 has an interior that is equal to, or better than, Tesla's interior because they have to be. It's a must have, it's something every journalist will compare against, it's something every buyer is going to expect. As always happens, what was premium 12 years ago has become the table stakes today.
In Europe the most common taxi car brand used to be Mercedes Benz (nowadays it's more diverse despite there still being lots of Mercedes). It's also a very common bus and truck brand.
What's your opinion on Mercedes-Benz?
What's your opinion on Mercedes-Benz?
To add to @timber prior to TM3/Y here in NYC they were the Lincoln Towncar. Are we going to also say they weren't premium? Also, you are talking about Limos the "L" in TLC (Uber, Lift, Rideshare, Revel, independent,...). Taxis are yellow cabs (metered vehicles).
Just because something is sold in volume does not put it in or out of a class. Unless we are talking about collectable.
Just because something is sold in volume does not put it in or out of a class. Unless we are talking about collectable.
In Europe there are a ton of BMWs a Mercedes used as taxicabs. Anything that is used as a “generic taxicab” is not premium.
My view is that Tesla interiors have a unique and premium feel. Of course, YMMV, since it was already established that any car that is used as a taxicab is not premium.
The Tesla today is not roughly the same as a Tesla of 12 years ago in the same way a BMW of 12 years ago is not the same as a BMW of today.
Indeed the materials of a 12 years ago ol BMW might even be better than today’s material.
Or course, nobody is changing anybody’s mind it’s just who tries to have the biggest snark in the conversation.
My view is that Tesla interiors have a unique and premium feel. Of course, YMMV, since it was already established that any car that is used as a taxicab is not premium.
The Tesla today is not roughly the same as a Tesla of 12 years ago in the same way a BMW of 12 years ago is not the same as a BMW of today.
Indeed the materials of a 12 years ago ol BMW might even be better than today’s material.
Or course, nobody is changing anybody’s mind it’s just who tries to have the biggest snark in the conversation.
Couldn’t disagree more. I use CarPlay which works ideally with the idrive or Siri if you prefer? Tesla’s can’t do that can they?
Would it work on the sort of lanes that I drive on that are common here? Single lane. If you meet a car coming the other way one of you has to reverse and pull into a passing point (the frequency of these varies greatly!). Often they are only 6 inches wider than the two cars put together if one is a farm vehicle.
I can’t see any self driving ever dealing with that.