Who has or is planning to get an electric car / EV Talk

[AustinIllini]

It does have smart features. You also can schedule charging from within the vehicle's UI.

If you get the Universal Wall Connector, it will come with the NACS plug and a build in J1772 plug (even thought I am 100% Tesla and other OEMs are moving to NACS, I would have gotten this if it was out at the time).

Tesla's WC are probably the best value for the money connectors.

There are almost no "smart features" in the wall connector. I had to go into it to allow my i4 to charge but other than that it does nothing special.

Both my cars manage the charging. btw, if you have a NACS AC charger and you need to charge a non-nacs car, TeslaTap is a great solution. Obviously only for slower charging speeds.

 

[JT2002TJ]

There are almost no "smart features" in the wall connector. I had to go into it to allow my i4 to charge but other than that it does nothing special.

Both my cars manage the charging. btw, if you have a NACS AC charger and you need to charge a non-nacs car, TeslaTap is a great solution. Obviously only for slower charging speeds.

If you mean that the wall connecter cannot be controlled by the utility company, then sure, it isn't smart. But for all other things it is smart and even has features that others do not have.

You can lock by Tesla only, lock by Tesla VIN (up to 10 I think), or open to all
It can load share and communicate with other wall connectors
You can get usage data via the Tesla App (as I showed)
You can set charging scheduling via the App (so if you don't have the ability to in vehicle schedule) so you can use your utilities cheaper rate times.

You can use 3rd party apps to control it even more

I wouldn't say it has almost no "smart features" especially with the ability to load balance with multiple connectors.

What would you say it is lacking, other than utility company direct access? (I'm not sure I would want the utility company to have access to my connector, I don't need them deciding that they don't want me charging right now, so I can go pound sand)

 

[cyb3rdud3]

It does have smart features. You also can schedule charging from within the vehicle's UI.

Don't forget the smart features are only for with Tesla, if you have another vehicle you'll be limited. Personally I'm not a fan of consumer side management, it should belong on the supply side so it can be managed with the rest of the property and the grid connections.

If you get the Universal Wall Connector, it will come with the NACS plug and a build in J1772 plug (even thought I am 100% Tesla and other OEMs are moving to NACS, I would have gotten this if it was out at the time).

Tesla's WC are probably the best value for the money connectors.

I suspect it depends on where you are in the world whether it is the best value for the money connector. Here in Europe, it most certainly is not, and it is definitely not the smartest you can get, nor the best value for money. There are so many other brands to choose from, but ultimately, I'd suggest it depends on your home and your needs for the integration. A flat has entirely unique needs and constraints to a property with its driveway. And a property with a large driveway and multiple cars has different needs, and a property that has sustainable energy generation, energy storage, air/ground/hybrid heat pumps and flexible grid pricing with trading capabilities has again different needs. So I do not believe at all one can say that a Tesla Wall Connect is the best value for money, it really depends.

 

[JT2002TJ]

Don't forget the smart features are only for with Tesla, if you have another vehicle you'll be limited. Personally I'm not a fan of consumer side management, it should belong on the supply side so it can be managed with the rest of the property and the grid connections.

I suspect it depends on where you are in the world whether it is the best value for the money connector. Here in Europe, it most certainly is not, and it is definitely not the smartest you can get, nor the best value for money. There are so many other brands to choose from, but ultimately, I'd suggest it depends on your home and your needs for the integration. A flat has entirely unique needs and constraints to a property with its driveway. And a property with a large driveway and multiple cars has different needs, and a property that has sustainable energy generation, energy storage, air/ground/hybrid heat pumps and flexible grid pricing with trading capabilities has again different needs. So I do not believe at all one can say that a Tesla Wall Connect is the best value for money, it really depends.

No way should the power company have authority over your charging... They have no control over anything else that you are paying for. What if they decided that, no, you shouldn't have AC today, or heat. Why is it any different for your vehicle. You are paying for your usage, if they want to increase the rate during peak times, that is one thing, but being able to reduce or even stop your vehicle charging is a no no in my book.

Yes, I am talking about US side of things. But I'd imagine that the Tesla wall connectors in Europe have the same smart features.

The smart features I listed are not Tesla specific. The only one that requires a Tesla is being able to lock charging to specific VINs. Here in the US, there are many hotel destination chargers that are using Tesla's wall connector. They are able to lock it to guests and even charge (see destination chargers) for sessions. These can be used with a bring your own J1772 adapter if they aren't using the newer universal wall connector which has it built in.

Telsa's wall connecter can load share with up to 6 other wall connectors without having to have an additional load balancer (one of the smartest features a connector can have). It is also outdoor rated.

I still ask, what features exist outside of the Tesla wall connecter makes it not as smart as others on the market. Other than the ability of the utility company directly accessing and managing it? There are 3rd party apps that give you additional access beyond what Tesla gives (temperature data, additional load data). There are a lot of safety features built in that many other connecters lack.


Destination chargers

Charging Partners | Tesla

Join our growing network of charging partners and offer convenient Tesla charging as a public or private amenity.

www.tesla.com

 

[diamond.g]

Don't forget the smart features are only for with Tesla, if you have another vehicle you'll be limited. Personally I'm not a fan of consumer side management, it should belong on the supply side so it can be managed with the rest of the property and the grid connections.

I suspect it depends on where you are in the world whether it is the best value for the money connector. Here in Europe, it most certainly is not, and it is definitely not the smartest you can get, nor the best value for money. There are so many other brands to choose from, but ultimately, I'd suggest it depends on your home and your needs for the integration. A flat has entirely unique needs and constraints to a property with its driveway. And a property with a large driveway and multiple cars has different needs, and a property that has sustainable energy generation, energy storage, air/ground/hybrid heat pumps and flexible grid pricing with trading capabilities has again different needs. So I do not believe at all one can say that a Tesla Wall Connect is the best value for money, it really depends.

Historically in the US the WC has been the best value for the amount of power it supported. Since Telsa has dropped 80A charging and other chargers have come down in pricing it isn't a huge shoe in like it used to be.

 

[JT2002TJ]

Historically in the US the WC has been the best value for the amount of power it supported. Since Telsa has dropped 80A charging and other chargers have come down in pricing it isn't a huge shoe in like it used to be.

The other big one, JuiceBox all of a sudden, their owner shut down and stopped support in NA... The left users without direct access to the device.

TWC has direct Wifi access through a web interface, so even if Tesla decides to stop support, you can at least adjust the Amp settings and use it as a dumb charger. Where this come is, is if you move houses and end up changing your Amp setup (I have mine wired to a 50A circuit, but if I move, I will do my best to have 2 load sharing 60A).

https://www.juiceboxnorthamerica.com/

 

[timber]

No way should the power company have authority over your charging... They have no control over anything else that you are paying for. What if they decided that, no, you shouldn't have AC today, or heat. Why is it any different for your vehicle. You are paying for your usage, if they want to increase the rate during peak times, that is one thing, but being able to reduce or even stop your vehicle charging is a no no in my book.

Yes, I am talking about US side of things. But I'd imagine that the Tesla wall connectors in Europe have the same smart features.

The smart features I listed are not Tesla specific. The only one that requires a Tesla is being able to lock charging to specific VINs. Here in the US, there are many hotel destination chargers that are using Tesla's wall connector. They are able to lock it to guests and even charge (see destination chargers) for sessions. These can be used with a bring your own J1772 adapter if they aren't using the newer universal wall connector which has it built in.

Telsa's wall connecter can load share with up to 6 other wall connectors without having to have an additional load balancer (one of the smartest features a connector can have). It is also outdoor rated.

I still ask, what features exist outside of the Tesla wall connecter makes it not as smart as others on the market. Other than the ability of the utility company directly accessing and managing it? There are 3rd party apps that give you additional access beyond what Tesla gives (temperature data, additional load data). There are a lot of safety features built in that many other connecters lack.


Destination chargers

Charging Partners | Tesla

Join our growing network of charging partners and offer convenient Tesla charging as a public or private amenity.

www.tesla.com

I don't know the specifics about cyb3rdud3 location but in general the power company hasn't got authority over you.
They may give you the option to take advantage of special pricing arrangements namely dynamic pricing
You always do as you see fit and that's when some automation may be interesting so that you don't even have to move a finger to take advantage of wholesale negative or really reduced pricing (for exemple).
In some situations, usually not available to residential customers or even small or medium business, you may enroll into an interruptability scheme and there you will receive setpoints in specific situations from the system operator.
But you will receive a given revenue just for that availability. And you have to enroll into the service.
Personally I have a simpler arrangement, peak and off peak pricing. It has some advantages but still simple to use (it's predictable).
And currently I'm running a fixed (2 prices) tariff. Although we never used gas from that country that likes to visit its neighbours current developments affect everyone and what affects gas affects CCGTs and those are usually setting marginal pricing and makes that indexed (to the wholesale market) pricing isn't great.

 

[JT2002TJ]

I don't know the specifics about cyb3rdud3 location but in general the power company hasn't got authority over you.
They may give you the option to take advantage of special pricing arrangements namely dynamic pricing
You always do as you see fit and that's when some automation may be interesting so that you don't even have to move a finger to take advantage of wholesale negative or really reduced pricing (for exemple).
In some situations, usually not available to residential customers or even small or medium business, you may enroll into an interruptability scheme and there you will receive setpoints in specific situations from the system operator.
But you will receive a given revenue just for that availability. And you have to enroll into the service.
Personally I have a simpler arrangement, peak and off peak pricing. It has some advantages but still simple to use (it's predictable).
And currently I'm running a fixed (2 prices) tariff. Although we never used gas from that country that likes to visit its neighbours current developments affect everyone and what affects gas affects CCGTs and those are usually setting marginal pricing and makes that indexed (to the wholesale market) pricing isn't great.

Thanks.

The TWC does allow you to set scheduled charging times via the connector itself (you can do it on the vehicle side as well). So, the smart ability to manage off peak charging is available for all vehicle makes.

Essentially, I think people are more concerned with Tesla = Bad than what the actual product delivers. So, I'm trying to identify what actual features the TWC is lacking when people say it isn't smart or is only smart for Tesla vehicles. So, if it is the lack of utility company integration, then ok, I admit that it is lacking (but most don't have this), but other than that, I genuinely am interested in understanding what it is lacking.

 

[timber]

I believe some people think (not without some reason taking from experience) that the TWC, being a device from a car manufacturer always ends up being more expensive and worse in general than other options.
But if you check the price it's indeed quite competitive.
I won't say it's always the best choice but it's very competitive.
Also remember that in Europe we don't have issues with plugs and connectors. Everyone uses the same so it's a bit more streamlined.

 

[JT2002TJ]

I believe some people think (not without some reason taking from experience) that the TWC, being a device from a car manufacturer always ends up being more expensive and worse in general than other options.
But if you check the price it's indeed quite competitive.
I won't say it's always the best choice but it's very competitive.
Also remember that in Europe we don't have issues with plugs and connectors. Everyone uses the same so it's a bit more streamlined.

Yes it is nice to have one single standard being CCS2. We are moving towards NACS as the standard (known as J3400).

Understanding the standard in Europe, I was being specific to smart features someone stated were lacking or were beneficial only to Tesla vehicles. So, I was asking for specifics...

EDIT: If the TWC is actually lacking, it would be more beneficial to people who are setting up their systems to have actual data points as to why. Simply saying there are other options that are smarter or cheaper doesn't really give useful information for those looking.

 

[timber]

NACS is a bit nicer mechanical design than CCS2 but unfortunately it wouldn't work very well for us because of three phase power.

 

[chipgallo]

Been driving a Polestar 2 DM 2022 since April 2023, alongside a 2023 Toyota Venza hybrid. Other than the lack of a 2nd cupholder, I like the interior, fit-and-finish and handling. Had to drive from Virginia to the Volvo dealer in Rockville, Md. for the 20K maintenance but it has been worry free so far. Nice to be able to "gas it up" from the house solar much of the time.

 

[timber]

Is that the real front plate?

 

[chipgallo]

Is that the real front plate?

The image was modified by Photoshop so no.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

Been driving a Polestar 2 DM 2022 since April 2023, alongside a 2023 Toyota Venza hybrid. Other than the lack of a 2nd cupholder, I like the interior, fit-and-finish and handling. Had to drive from Virginia to the Volvo dealer in Rockville, Md. for the 20K maintenance but it has been worry free so far. Nice to be able to "gas it up" from the house solar much of the time.

Our Polestar 2 has two cupholders upfront, and two more bottle holders in the front doors. I'm sure yours being from the same model year would have the same

 

[cyb3rdud3]

No way should the power company have authority over your charging... They have no control over anything else that you are paying for. What if they decided that, no, you shouldn't have AC today, or heat. Why is it any different for your vehicle. You are paying for your usage, if they want to increase the rate during peak times, that is one thing, but being able to reduce or even stop your vehicle charging is a no no in my book.

Yes, I am talking about US side of things. But I'd imagine that the Tesla wall connectors in Europe have the same smart features.

The smart features I listed are not Tesla specific. The only one that requires a Tesla is being able to lock charging to specific VINs. Here in the US, there are many hotel destination chargers that are using Tesla's wall connector. They are able to lock it to guests and even charge (see destination chargers) for sessions. These can be used with a bring your own J1772 adapter if they aren't using the newer universal wall connector which has it built in.

Telsa's wall connecter can load share with up to 6 other wall connectors without having to have an additional load balancer (one of the smartest features a connector can have). It is also outdoor rated.

I still ask, what features exist outside of the Tesla wall connecter makes it not as smart as others on the market. Other than the ability of the utility company directly accessing and managing it? There are 3rd party apps that give you additional access beyond what Tesla gives (temperature data, additional load data). There are a lot of safety features built in that many other connecters lack.


Destination chargers

Charging Partners | Tesla

Join our growing network of charging partners and offer convenient Tesla charging as a public or private amenity.

www.tesla.com

I don't know the specifics about cyb3rdud3 location but in general the power company hasn't got authority over you.
They may give you the option to take advantage of special pricing arrangements namely dynamic pricing
You always do as you see fit and that's when some automation may be interesting so that you don't even have to move a finger to take advantage of wholesale negative or really reduced pricing (for exemple).
In some situations, usually not available to residential customers or even small or medium business, you may enroll into an interruptability scheme and there you will receive setpoints in specific situations from the system operator.
But you will receive a given revenue just for that availability. And you have to enroll into the service.
Personally I have a simpler arrangement, peak and off peak pricing. It has some advantages but still simple to use (it's predictable).
And currently I'm running a fixed (2 prices) tariff. Although we never used gas from that country that likes to visit its neighbours current developments affect everyone and what affects gas affects CCGTs and those are usually setting marginal pricing and makes that indexed (to the wholesale market) pricing isn't great.

Again location specific, we've got property in this context for main living in both the United Kingdom (detached, own driveway, single phase electricity supply), and the Netherlands (an apartment with underground parking and HOA, and a city mansion with off-road parking, three-phase electricity supply, solar, storage, ground source heat pump under renovation).

When I said consumer side earlier, that is regarding the vehicle being the consumer and the (smart) charger being the supplier. Now when AC charging it isn't actually a charger as the charger is in the vehicle, but most people call it a charger. My point about it best not be consumer led is because if you program the car to determine the demand based on your home charging, then you have to change that when out and about and public charging. It is much less fiddly, have to have the supply side (the house, the property) determine what is happening. That way, a proper smart charger can make use of whatever the best mix is. And that in turn depends on how the home is configured, which can vary from a simple dual tariff, to dynamic pricing, to actively trading in combination with active pricing when you store, or supply energy. It can get quite complicated even with home storage batteries alone, but if you then also bring in V2H, V2G, V2L aka bidirectional charging, it can get really complicated, and you need good proper smart chargers that support such integration and features.

In the UK, and Netherlands, the power company does have that kind of authority. Smart chargers are mandatory. The grid is national infrastructure and has a need to be able to be managed like that. Many people wish it wasn't so, as in theory they can determine when you can or cannot charge. In practice, this hasn't happened. But let's be real, we do not own the connections to the grid anyway. Even with dynamic pricing and management on the consumer connections, there are entirely different challenges than the grid overall.

Regarding the Telsla Wall Connector there are of course three generations of them that are slightly different. My understanding is that only the Gen 3 has Wi-Fi, so there is one issue immediately regarding where it isn't that smart. Then there are features that are only for Tesla vehicles, understandable to a degree, but that doesn't make it a smart choice as a piece of infrastructure at your home that is intended for charging. Lack of integration with dynamic pricing is another if you don't have other infrastructure in your home that can take that task, but not so noticeable if you have a Tesla as they've offloaded that to the vehicle (the consumer doing it). Solar integration is tightly integrated with a Tesla vehicle and app, great, but not so great when you don't have a Tesla vehicle and want to utilize such functions. If one has a Tesla and just wants a simple charger without more sophisticated integrations or usage patterns, there is nothing wrong with a Tesla Wall Connector. It will do the job. Hence, I said it depends on what your home is like, as there may be a need for other smart chargers that can handle that and integrate fully with the home, and especially so when anyone can see they will have EVs that are non-Teslas as well.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

Has anybody watched Yiannimize on YouTube and his Cybertruck purchase? He’s British and has bought an imported Cybertruck from an Albanian YouTuber and the car itself is on Albanian plates. The process of trying to get that car road legal for Europe is an absolute nightmare. Rubber strips have to put along all panel edges as the pedestrian safety aspect is appalling. The indicators are red and he’s had to get a special module made to incorporate orange indicator lights and a mandatory fog light which is required here. Charging is a nightmare due to the adaptor being unreliable too.

The car is absolutely huge compared to most other cars here and it’s comparable to a large Mercedes Sprinter van albeit wider, so comically impractical for British roads in domestic use.

Very interesting to watch though and clearly demonstrates why Tesla will never be able to sell the Cybertruck in Europe.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

It is long at 5.6m, but width is not extraordinary. It seems to have giant mirrors, but it is in the same ballpark as a Porsche Panamera, or a Range Rover, or when compared to commercial vehicles like a Ford van. And when you take the long wheel basis versions of those vehicles, it isn't materially different at all.

 

[JT2002TJ]

Again location specific, we've got property in this context for main living in both the United Kingdom (detached, own driveway, single phase electricity supply), and the Netherlands (an apartment with underground parking and HOA, and a city mansion with off-road parking, three-phase electricity supply, solar, storage, ground source heat pump under renovation).

When I said consumer side earlier, that is regarding the vehicle being the consumer and the (smart) charger being the supplier. Now when AC charging it isn't actually a charger as the charger is in the vehicle, but most people call it a charger. My point about it best not be consumer led is because if you program the car to determine the demand based on your home charging, then you have to change that when out and about and public charging. It is much less fiddly, have to have the supply side (the house, the property) determine what is happening. That way, a proper smart charger can make use of whatever the best mix is. And that in turn depends on how the home is configured, which can vary from a simple dual tariff, to dynamic pricing, to actively trading in combination with active pricing when you store, or supply energy. It can get quite complicated even with home storage batteries alone, but if you then also bring in V2H, V2G, V2L aka bidirectional charging, it can get really complicated, and you need good proper smart chargers that support such integration and features.

In the UK, and Netherlands, the power company does have that kind of authority. Smart chargers are mandatory. The grid is national infrastructure and has a need to be able to be managed like that. Many people wish it wasn't so, as in theory they can determine when you can or cannot charge. In practice, this hasn't happened. But let's be real, we do not own the connections to the grid anyway. Even with dynamic pricing and management on the consumer connections, there are entirely different challenges than the grid overall.

Regarding the Telsla Wall Connector there are of course three generations of them that are slightly different. My understanding is that only the Gen 3 has Wi-Fi, so there is one issue immediately regarding where it isn't that smart. Then there are features that are only for Tesla vehicles, understandable to a degree, but that doesn't make it a smart choice as a piece of infrastructure at your home that is intended for charging. Lack of integration with dynamic pricing is another if you don't have other infrastructure in your home that can take that task, but not so noticeable if you have a Tesla as they've offloaded that to the vehicle (the consumer doing it). Solar integration is tightly integrated with a Tesla vehicle and app, great, but not so great when you don't have a Tesla vehicle and want to utilize such functions. If one has a Tesla and just wants a simple charger without more sophisticated integrations or usage patterns, there is nothing wrong with a Tesla Wall Connector. It will do the job. Hence, I said it depends on what your home is like, as there may be a need for other smart chargers that can handle that and integrate fully with the home, and especially so when anyone can see they will have EVs that are non-Teslas as well.

I think you have outdated or incorrect information. TWCs have wifi and have connector side scheduling, this is not limited to Gen 3.

The beauty of having a Tesla branded connector is just like with their vehicles, you gain features with firmware updates. They continue to support their products, unlike companies like the former owner of JuiceBox, which left owners without the ability to make changes to the device. Also Tesla made device side management, so even going forward you can continue to control the device.

Here are actual screenshots from the Tesla app (NOT Tesla specific). If you become a destination charger, there is a separate app that Tesla has (business app) that allows you to have additional features (billing).

Utility Rate Information (has listings of rates, and you enter a code off of your bill):

Connector side scheduling:

The ability to lock down charging (this is Tesla specific):

 

[cyb3rdud3]

Yes as I’ve highlighted twice now, it can do something when you have a Tesla vehicle. It can do less when you don’t. It definitely can’t do dynamic pricing at all, so you’d need other technologies for that in your home. In my opinion therefore it’s not smart to get it unless you have very basic demands and a Tesla. And no they are not the best value for money. They are not materially differently priced to others on the market.

LOL How come nobody can ever say something critical about Tesla? Isn’t it good to understand the full picture? 🤷‍♂️🤣 They all get updated, that is not unique nor a Tesla invention 🤣🤣

 

[JT2002TJ]

Yes as I’ve highlighted twice now, it can do something when you have a Tesla vehicle. It can do less when you don’t. It definitely can’t do dynamic pricing at all, so you’d need other technologies for that in your home. In my opinion therefore it’s not smart to get it unless you have very basic demands and a Tesla. And no they are not the best value for money. They are not materially differently priced to others on the market.

LOL How come nobody can ever say something critical about Tesla? Isn’t it good to understand the full picture? 🤷‍♂️🤣 They all get updated, that is not unique nor a Tesla invention 🤣🤣

I showed you a screenshot of how you scheduled for dynamic pricing. At least here dynamic pricing is by peak/off peak. You set the schedule to not allow it to run during peak times.

And I provided the next biggest connector manufacturer here that lost support by the former owner.

 

[Apple fanboy]

I think you have outdated or incorrect information. TWCs have wifi and have connector side scheduling, this is not limited to Gen 3.

The beauty of having a Tesla branded connector is just like with their vehicles, you gain features with firmware updates. They continue to support their products, unlike companies like the former owner of JuiceBox, which left owners without the ability to make changes to the device. Also Tesla made device side management, so even going forward you can continue to control the device.

Here are actual screenshots from the Tesla app (NOT Tesla specific). If you become a destination charger, there is a separate app that Tesla has (business app) that allows you to have additional features (billing).


View attachment 2462181
View attachment 2462178

Utility Rate Information (has listings of rates, and you enter a code off of your bill):
View attachment 2462179

Connector side scheduling:
View attachment 2462182

The ability to lock down charging (this is Tesla specific):
View attachment 2462204

Our charger at work (can’t remember the brand) also has the ability to only charge with an rfid card. But being able to only allow a specific vehicle would be kind of useful for some depending on your home set up. Stuck out in the sticks, you don’t need to worry about that of course. But I’ve seen some chargers that definitely look like their neighbours could be helping themselves if you were out!

 

[JT2002TJ]

Our charger at work (can’t remember the brand) also has the ability to only charge with an rfid card. But being able to only allow a specific vehicle would be kind of useful for some depending on your home set up. Stuck out in the sticks, you don’t need to worry about that of course. But I’ve seen some chargers that definitely look like their neighbours could be helping themselves if you were out!

Yeah, if you leave it outdoors it is a nice feature. I wonder if they are going to add the ability to lock it down to manufactures partnering with Tesla (Rivian, Ford,…) since
Now there is vehicle specific communication with Tesla.

Some people leave there chargers out free to other EV owners, and even list them on charging apps to help prevent people from being stranded. If mine was outside I would leave it open to the public for this same reason.

 

[Apple fanboy]

Yeah, if you leave it outdoors it is a nice feature. I wonder if they are going to add the ability to lock it down to manufactures patterning with Tesla (Rivian, Ford,…) since
Now there is vehicle specific communication with Tesla.

Some people leave there chargers out free to other EV owners, and even list them on charging apps to help prevent people from being stranded. If mine was outside I would leave it open to the public for this same reason.

That’s because you don’t pay UK energy prices!

 

[JT2002TJ]

That’s because you don’t pay UK energy prices!

lol. True!!!

I guess I should have said, if I lived in a charging desert and my charger was outside, I would leave it open. I am surrounded by all kinds of chargers here, even a free L2 at my grocery store (up to 2 hrs). So, there is no real need for people to access my charger here.