Who has or is planning to get an electric car / EV Talk

[diamond.g]

NACS no longer has anything to do with Tesla. It is an SAE standard called J3400. The move is better for them vs not as it is a far superior plug vs CCS1. Now, if they want to back out of accessing the SuperCharging network, that is a separate issue, one that only hurts their customers as the deal gives them additional options that they can decide themselves if they want to use.

https://www.sae.org/standards/content/j3400_202409/

I want to preface this with I don't have an issue with Tesla (the company). I wish the board would replace Elon with JB (I know will never happen) though. Everything that follows is under the assumption that folks really hate Tesla since folks see Tesla and Elon as 1 entity.

I know it is a SAE standard now, but folks are still going to associate it with Tesla especially when it is touted that you can use their network for charging. It is a perception thing.

I'm still curious if it really is a better plug than CCS1 with high rates of charging (Telsa SC have derated due to heat at the plug end). Maybe the V4 stalls are better (nothing around me has been upgraded to them yet).

 

[JT2002TJ]

I want to preface this with I don't have an issue with Tesla (the company). I wish the board would replace Elon with JB (I know will never happen) though. Everything that follows is under the assumption that folks really hate Tesla since folks see Tesla and Elon as 1 entity.

I know it is a SAE standard now, but folks are still going to associate it with Tesla especially when it is touted that you can use their network for charging. It is a perception thing.

I'm still curious if it really is a better plug than CCS1 with high rates of charging (Telsa SC have derated due to heat at the plug end). Maybe the V4 stalls are better (nothing around me has been upgraded to them yet).

For everyday use, J3400 is WAY better than CCS1. I would rather use J3400 every single day, even if it was at the risk of slightly slower L3/L4 charging.

I do not think the plug limits the speed; it is the design of the current SC cabinets. I don't think Tesla would have gone with the plug for their Semi's if it wasn't capable of maintaining higher kW charging.

Tesla says the V4 cabinet supports charging on vehicles with battery packs rated for between 400 volts and 1000 volts. That means charging speeds of up to 500 kW on cars and 1.2 Megawatts for the Tesla Semi.

Source: https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a62942216/tesla-v4-superchargers-announced/

 

[Apple fanboy]

I’m so glad we don’t have your issues with adapters etc over here in the UK and Europe.

There should just have been one standard from day one. It couldn’t have been handled worse. Imagine if ICE cars had different width intakes for fuel.

 

[thejadedmonkey]

I’m so glad we don’t have your issues with adapters etc over here in the UK and Europe.

There should just have been one standard from day one. It couldn’t have been handled worse. Imagine if ICE cars had different width intakes for fuel.

I mean they kind of do. I'm pretty sure that a diesel nozzle won't physically fit into a gasoline (is that petrol over there?) fuel inlet. The difference is that since EVs are "new", they're "different".

Once you flip the dominant car to BEVs, some things that we consider "normal" for ICE are just weird.

* Do you really need to drive to a special refueling station, instead of just plugging in when it's convenient? And then have to wait at the pump while it fills up?
* Why do we need twice-annual oil changes in a closed loop system?
* Why are there so many types of gas to choose from?

 

[timber]

For everyday use, J3400 is WAY better than CCS1. I would rather use J3400 every single day, even if it was at the risk of slightly slower L3/L4 charging.

I do not think the plug limits the speed; it is the design of the current SC cabinets. I don't think Tesla would have gone with the plug for their Semi's if it wasn't capable of maintaining higher kW charging.


Source: https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a62942216/tesla-v4-superchargers-announced/

Doesn't US CCS1 have a smaller plug for everyday AC charging?

Ah, I googled it. Does it keep the top latch when used as J1772?

 

[JT2002TJ]

Doesn't US CCS1 have a smaller plug for everyday AC charging?

Ah, I googled it. Does it keep the top latch when used as J1772?

It does, but it isn't tapered like the J3400, and is still bigger. So, it is more difficult to line up when inserting the plug. Also, the locking mechanism is a level button on the handle, requiring pressing while removing.

J3400 has an electronic button that tells the vehicle to unlock the handle, so all you have to do is pull out.

The fact that the AC and DC plugs are all integrated into one small plug, is an added benefit.

 

[JT2002TJ]

I’m so glad we don’t have your issues with adapters etc over here in the UK and Europe.

There should just have been one standard from day one. It couldn’t have been handled worse. Imagine if ICE cars had different width intakes for fuel.

I mean, there really was no general adoption of EVs until Tesla hit the market. Once that happened, and the modern EV market started, J3400 didn't exist, it was Tesla's design that they "opened" up (with potential restrictions). I don't blame the auto industry in the US for not jumping onboard NACS until it was an SAE standard... The US government was not going to make a standard that was different than the by far number 1 sold EV brand's plug, especially since it was a Tesla's was proprietary plug at the time. So, they let the market dictate it. It is clear now that the J3400 will basically be the standard.

In the end the design won, if Tesla really wanted everyone to use it earlier (it isn't their job to make their plug a standard, they provided a charging network L2/L3/L4 for their customers) they could have forced it over to an SAE standard before 2023 (I think it was 2023).

 

[diamond.g]

I’m so glad we don’t have your issues with adapters etc over here in the UK and Europe.

There should just have been one standard from day one. It couldn’t have been handled worse. Imagine if ICE cars had different width intakes for fuel.

Honestly Chademo should have been the standard. It is the only World wide plug for fast charging.

 

[timber]

It does, but it isn't tapered like the J3400, and is still bigger. So, it is more difficult to line up when inserting the plug. Also, the locking mechanism is a level button on the handle, requiring pressing while removing.

J3400 has an electronic button that tells the vehicle to unlock the handle, so all you have to do is pull out.

The fact that the AC and DC plugs are all integrated into one small plug, is an added benefit.

Having the latch certainly is annoying. CCS2 (or better IEC 62196-2 type 2) locks internally and is also tapered. I still find the J3400 plug nicer but it doesn't do 3 phase which is necessary around here.

 

[sjsharksfan12]

I'm not planning to get an electric car, but I'm seriously considering a hybrid in the next year or 2. Of course my Honda is fine and has just passed 60,000 miles, but I think by the end of next year I am interested in getting a Hybrid and something all wheel drive, not to mention something with wireless android auto/car play since my Car Play doesn't work anymore and Crutchfield says I'm out of luck on that. I just worry it might be too early to give up on a car I've only had for 10 years, but getting a midsized SUV might be beneficial.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

NACS no longer has anything to do with Tesla. It is an SAE standard called J3400. The move is better for them vs not as it is a far superior plug vs CCS1. Now, if they want to back out of accessing the SuperCharging network, that is a separate issue, one that only hurts their customers as the deal gives them additional options that they can decide themselves if they want to use.

https://www.sae.org/standards/content/j3400_202409/

Whilst it is good there is a standard for NA, it is a shame it is that one. Not least that it is forever associated with Tesla. But it is like Fahrenheit, which is predominantly a USA thing, CSS2 is goes even faster and is what as good as the rest of the world uses.

And besides the DC speed increase, CCS also supports both single-phase AC and three-phase AC, thus also much, much, faster home charging capabilities.

But it is what it is.

PS. And then I haven't even mentioned bidirectional standards like V2G and V2H applications, which to be fair CHAdeMO pioneered, but other than the early Nissan Leaf I don't know of any car that used it. And the plugs are even bigger than CCS2, and CHadeMO has similar speed limitations like NACS.

 

[diamond.g]

Whilst it is good there is a standard for NA, it is a shame it is that one. Not least that it is forever associated with Tesla. But it is like Fahrenheit, which is predominantly a USA thing, CSS2 is goes even faster and is what as good as the rest of the world uses.

And besides the DC speed increase, CCS also supports both single-phase AC and three-phase AC, thus also much, much, faster home charging capabilities.

But it is what it is.

PS. And then I haven't even mentioned bidirectional standards like V2G and V2H applications, which to be fair CHAdeMO pioneered, but other than the early Nissan Leaf I don't know of any car that used it. And the plugs are even bigger than CCS2, and CHadeMO has similar speed limitations like NACS.

For whatever reason North America opted to not go with CCS2, which would have made everyone be on the same plug standard (well except China). Chademo only has 1 plug, which is why I said it should have been the standard for fast charging. It is a shame they crippled it with low charge rates and were slow to up them (I think the latest version can do 400kW).

 

[cyb3rdud3]

Yes I don’t think I’ve ever seen an Chademo faster than 50. Although the standard could handle up to 400. CCS2 could do 500. We’ve got 480 here already. And then there is at home 3 phase charging. Full speed is handy if you need a quick top up.

 

[Tagbert]

Honestly Chademo should have been the standard. It is the only World wide plug for fast charging.

Chademo is even clunkier than CSS/1 and only had a significant presence in a few markets. In North America it is largely forgotten. I don’t think we will get a world wide standard. We never had had for electrical power in general. If we do get a standard it will have to be a major benefit and win out based on that. Just having the same plug as people in other continents isn’t much of a selling point to change the local standards.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

Chademo is even clunkier than CSS/1 and only had a significant presence in a few markets. In North America it is largely forgotten. I don’t think we will get a world wide standard. We never had had for electrical power in general. If we do get a standard it will have to be a major benefit and win out based on that. Just having the same plug as people in other continents isn’t much of a selling point to change the local standards.

Faster speeds both on DC and AC surely are selling points?

But practically I agree, Tesla has already got the standard in NA and in the coming four years that won’t change.

 

[H_D]

I mean we still don’t even have standards for wall plugs. It’s still amazing and frustrating how fractured the world really is … and the upcoming years will probably not end this trend.

 

[diamond.g]

We may not have an WW AC standard, but DC seems to be pretty standardized.

 

[JT2002TJ]

Faster speeds both on DC and AC surely are selling points?

But practically I agree, Tesla has already got the standard in NA and in the coming four years that won’t change.

I don't think CCS2 is any faster than J3400 when it comes to DC. It's the Charger that has held it back so far Telsa only put cabinets out that do 250kW, but it is capable of 500kW and 1MW Tesla Semis. At least this is how I understand it.

For AC, what is your vehicle's max AC Charger speeds in kW?

Tesla's vehicle's onboard AC chargers are only capable of 11.5 kw charging so, we are capable of our Max here in the US, with 60 Amp circuits without 3-phase power. I'm not sure what other manufacturers max AC chargers are...

EDIT: Older S/X had 19.2 kW onboard charging using NACS/J3400

 

[russell_314]

I'm not planning to get an electric car, but I'm seriously considering a hybrid in the next year or 2. Of course my Honda is fine and has just passed 60,000 miles, but I think by the end of next year I am interested in getting a Hybrid and something all wheel drive, not to mention something with wireless android auto/car play since my Car Play doesn't work anymore and Crutchfield says I'm out of luck on that. I just worry it might be too early to give up on a car I've only had for 10 years, but getting a midsized SUV might be beneficial.

I love the Toyota Prius hybrid, but realistically a hybrid is just a gasoline car with extra steps. Gas goes in a tank and smoke comes out the exhaust pipe.

For daily commuting, you cannot beat an EV. You never have to think about stopping for gas. Your car is warm or cold depending on the season when you get in. I don’t miss getting into a hot car in the summer. It’s extremely quiet although higher end gas cars are fairly close.

I’m guessing you live where it snows a lot since you mentioned all wheel drive SUV. I like the snow, but don’t care to drive in it.

 

[quagmire]

I don't think CCS2 is any faster than J3400 when it comes to DC. It's the Charger that has held it back so far Telsa only put cabinets out that do 250kW, but it is capable of 500kW and 1MW Tesla Semis. At least this is how I understand it.

For AC, what is your vehicle's max AC Charger speeds in kW?

Tesla's vehicle's onboard AC chargers are only capable of 11.5 kw charging so, we are capable of our Max here in the US, with 60 Amp circuits without 3-phase power. I'm not sure what other manufacturers max AC chargers are...

EDIT: Older S/X had 19.2 kW onboard charging using NACS/J3400

Doesn't matter if you plug in your Model 3 into a Supercharger that can output 500 kW, it's only going to accept 250 kW. It's limited by what the battery and electrical architecture can handle.

GM's EV's are slower than Tesla when it comes to L3 charging, but they have a 19 kW AC charger.

 

[sjsharksfan12]

For daily commuting, you cannot beat an EV. You never have to think about stopping for gas. Your car is warm or cold depending on the season when you get in. I don’t miss getting into a hot car in the summer. It’s extremely quiet although higher end gas cars are fairly close.

I just feel like if I take long trips and having to start and charge the car might give me some anxiety. Having a hybrid seems like a fair compromise.

 

[diamond.g]

Doesn't matter if you plug in your Model 3 into a Supercharger that can output 500 kW, it's only going to accept 250 kW. It's limited by what the battery and electrical architecture can handle.

GM's EV's are slower than Tesla when it comes to L3 charging, but they have a 19 kW AC charger.

Yeah I guess Tesla found that getting a 100A breaker for a EVSE was too costly for most folk, so they limited all the newer vehicles to 60A.

 

[quagmire]

Yeah I guess Tesla found that getting a 100A breaker for a EVSE was too costly for most folk, so they limited all the newer vehicles to 60A.

Typical Tesla move.

" No one uses the lumbar in the passenger seat so we will remove it"

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

I mean they kind of do. I'm pretty sure that a diesel nozzle won't physically fit into a gasoline (is that petrol over there?) fuel inlet. The difference is that since EVs are "new", they're "different".

That's true and its a real problem, especially when I am determined to pump diesel into an unleaded car.

Seriously though, the EV thing is very different because all chargers are universal and having one type of port is fundemental. Having different types in the same country is a nightmare.

 

[russell_314]

I just feel like if I take long trips and having to start and charge the car might give me some anxiety. Having a hybrid seems like a fair compromise.

Absolutely if you make long trips and don’t feel like stopping to charge, a gasoline powered vehicle makes more sense. Buy what you need and don’t feel pressured to get something else because your friends have it or it sounds cool.

On the other hand if you haven’t drove more than 100 miles in one direction in the past decade and you have this long trip scenario in your head, I’d say that’s more of a worrying about nothing problem. I’ve talked to so many people and they questioned me about long trips. I’ll ask them when’s the last time they drove more than 100 miles. The usual answer is well maybe 10 to 15 years. Not all of them because some people do make frequent trips to visit family and friends.

Yeah I guess Tesla found that getting a 100A breaker for a EVSE was too costly for most folk, so they limited all the newer vehicles to 60A.

Home charging is usually an overnight scenario. Even with 48A at 220V it charges overnight just fine. Of course that’s in the USA so I don’t know how it differs in other countries using different voltages.

Typical Tesla move.

" No one uses the lumbar in the passenger seat so we will remove it"

That sounds like a certain fruit company that’s very popular here 😂