Who has or is planning to get an electric car / EV Talk

[crzdcolombian]

living in Boston they should have a toll like the train. Hey I have to use this every day can I get a discount for using the that road weekly or monthly?

It's funny too living in CT. You know exactly when you hit Massachusetts or New York because you have to pay a massive toll the lanes shrink considerably and the roads worsen by 450% yet they charge you $20-30 per trip.

my ez pass I feel anytime I go up to Boston or NYC to see friends they charge me $20-30 for a round trip. I have no idea how people do that every day for work or use to.

 

[Apple fanboy]

April numbers are in. In the UK 536 new Tesla’s sold in April compared to 1404 in the same month the previous year.
That’s despite a growing shift to EV’s in the UK (currently around 20-25% of all new car sales are EV).

That’s a poor month by any metric.

 

[SalisburySam]

I wonder if actual mileage and weight classifications might be a fairer way of generating road funds, at least for non-commercial vehicles. For inspection states, mileage is captured already, and can be added to registration requirements in non-inspection states. Gross vehicle weights are on door jamb labels, and in published marketing materials so could be easily added at initial registration. This would eliminate the political randomness of EV taxes and fees, the hyperbole about how EV cause more damage, etc., etc. Doesn’t do anything for out-of-state vehicles or commercial bussing/trucking, but those are different categories and assessments today as well.

Tolls everywhere would fleece money from out-of-state and commercial users in addition to whatever they pay elsewhere, though tolls are just colossally annoying, reduce traffic flow, and constantly escalate as pay scales for toll takers rise and whatever costs the tolls ostensibly support rise as well. Good toll policy should demand use of transponders in most if not all lanes, and transponder lanes should be required to have the structure and technology to pass vehicles at highway speeds, whatever they are for that stretch of roadway. Cameras can catch abusers with appropriate follow-up.

 

[Apple fanboy]

I wonder if actual mileage and weight classifications might be a fairer way of generating road funds, at least for non-commercial vehicles. For inspection states, mileage is captured already, and can be added to registration requirements in non-inspection states. Gross vehicle weights are on door jamb labels, and in published marketing materials so could be easily added at initial registration. This would eliminate the political randomness of EV taxes and fees, the hyperbole about how EV cause more damage, etc., etc. Doesn’t do anything for out-of-state vehicles or commercial bussing/trucking, but those are different categories and assessments today as well.

Tolls everywhere would fleece money from out-of-state and commercial users in addition to whatever they pay elsewhere, though tolls are just colossally annoying, reduce traffic flow, and constantly escalate as pay scales for toll takers rise and whatever costs the tolls ostensibly support rise as well. Good toll policy should demand use of transponders in most if not all lanes, and transponder lanes should be required to have the structure and technology to pass vehicles at highway speeds, whatever they are for that stretch of roadway. Cameras can catch abusers with appropriate follow-up.

So why not just do it at the annual inspection? Mileage last year was was ****. This year it’s **** so at ** p/c per mile you pay. Easy. Those that travel the most pay the most.

 

[quagmire]

While we see this specuation everywhere, I have yet to see any actual data or science that demonstrates EVs cause any extra wear compared to ICE. The narrative that EVs are much heavier is an exaggeration at best.

Lightest Tesla Model Y: 3,582 lbs
Lightest Toyota RAV 4: 3,370 lbs
Base model Subaru Forester: 3,449 lbs
Base model BMW X5: 4,540 lbs
Base model Kia Sportage Hybrid: 3,532 lbs

Where did you get the weights from?

Model Y( Juniper) is 4396 lb.

RAV4 is 3640 lb.

Model Y though is a bigger vehicle. Sitting in between RAV4 and Highlander. Highlander is 4155 lb.

Sources: Tesla and Toyota website.

 

[diamond.g]

So why not just do it at the annual inspection? Mileage last year was was ****. This year it’s **** so at ** p/c per mile you pay. Easy. Those that travel the most pay the most.

Mileage based is fine if you never leave the state, but it also doesn't capture out of town folk (or military people that register in another state).

 

[JT2002TJ]

So why not just do it at the annual inspection? Mileage last year was was ****. This year it’s **** so at ** p/c per mile you pay. Easy. Those that travel the most pay the most.

Not every state requires inspection. It is a process that if the Feds wanted to collect fund for, they would end up having to provide a way to verify mileage. Federally, only cities/counties over a certain population require emission testing. Many states have removed safety inspection, and only facilitate the emission testing where required to keep federal highway funds coming in.

This is why I think it should be a flat fee collected via registration.

 

[Apple fanboy]

Mileage based is fine if you never leave the state, but it also doesn't capture out of town folk (or military people that register in another state).

Not in the states, so all of our mileage would be in the same country. It’s all collected centrally.

 

[Apple fanboy]

Not every state requires inspection. It is a process that if the Feds wanted to collect fund for, they would end up having to provide a way to verify mileage. Federally, only cities/counties over a certain population require emission testing. Many states have removed safety inspection, and only facilitate the emission testing where required to keep federal highway funds coming in.

This is why I think it should be a flat fee collected via registration.

So no annual inspection for roadworthiness at all? That’s scary!

 

[diamond.g]

Not in the states, so all of our mileage would be in the same country. It’s all collected centrally.

Yeah from a EU/UK perspective that works. In the US not as much, at least until the federal government starts tracking vehicle mileage, which probably wouldn't be agreed to by it's citizenship.

So no annual inspection for roadworthiness at all? That’s scary!

State by state requirements for safety inspection, and again out of state registered vehicles may get exempted. As was said before smog checks are only required in big cities. Us rural folk get out of having to do that.

 

[Apple fanboy]

Yeah from a EU/UK perspective that works. In the US not as much, at least until the federal government starts tracking vehicle mileage, which probably wouldn't be agreed to by it's citizenship.

State by state requirements for safety inspection, and again out of state registered vehicles may get exempted. As was said before smog checks are only required in big cities. Us rural folk get out of having to do that.

Not too many smog checks for EV’s though I’m guessing? Mine doesn’t have an exhaust to check!

 

[diamond.g]

Not too many smog checks for EV’s though I’m guessing? Mine doesn’t have an exhaust to check!

Yeah gets listed as NA on the inspection sheet, haha. I think for "normal" vehicles they just hook up the OBD2 scanner and check for emissons codes (or more generically fail you if your check engine light is on). At least that is how they checked in NoVA. I've heard some states actually do a real smog check on a dyno (like what VW got caught cheating on), but don't know of any off hand.

 

[Digital Dude]

I’m definitely not an EV guy—but at this point, I might end up with one by default. I’m a muscle car guy, raised on the beasts of the ’60s and ‘70s, and I still drive something with a bit of fire today. Somehow, I’ve made it through life without getting whacked or sick from some state-sponsored illness. That said, I’ve got a rare neurological condition, and sooner or later I’ll need a vehicle that can drive itself. As much as it pains me to admit, Tesla’s the only brand I’d trust with that kind of tech—though that $8,000 upgrade still stings. ⚡️

 

[diamond.g]

I’m definitely not an EV guy—but at this point, I might end up with one by default. I’m a muscle car guy, raised on the beasts of the ’60s and ‘70s, and I still drive something with a bit of fire today. Somehow, I’ve made it through life without getting wrecked or sick from some state-sponsored illness. That said, I’ve got a rare neurological condition, and sooner or later I’ll need a vehicle that can drive itself. As much as it pains me to admit, Tesla’s the only brand I’d trust with that kind of tech—though that $8,000 upgrade still stings. ⚡️

You come out ahead by subscribing until you have your vehicle for more than 80 months.

 

[JT2002TJ]

So no annual inspection for roadworthiness at all? That’s scary!

The states that have removed Safety inspections, still allow police officers to ticket for safety purposes. So now it is a punitive rather than preventative type process. We have a LOT of vehicles in the US, the cost for inspections has gotten out of hand. NYC has excessive sound tickets by mail for exhausts that are too loud (even OEMs can get tickets).

EV inspections in NY are much cheaper, since there is no emission testing, just safety inspections.

 

[jz0309]

So no annual inspection for roadworthiness at all? That’s scary!

Not in CA for all I know, smog test for everyone though, on some schedule that I honestly don’t really know as we’ve had hybrids/PHEV and EVs only for the last decade

 

[Apple fanboy]

The states that have removed Safety inspections, still allow police officers to ticket for safety purposes. So now it is a punitive rather than preventative type process. We have a LOT of vehicles in the US, the cost for inspections has gotten out of hand. NYC has excessive sound tickets by mail for exhausts that are too loud (even OEMs can get tickets).

EV inspections in NY are much cheaper, since there is no emission testing, just safety inspections.

Here the annual inspection (MOT) tests tyres, breaks, suspension amongst other things. My Golf failed once for having the numbers and letters being a couple of mm too small. It was about its third or fourth test and had the original plates which was weird!

 

[JT2002TJ]

Here the annual inspection (MOT) tests tyres, breaks, suspension amongst other things. My Golf failed once for having the numbers and letters being a couple of mm too small. It was about its third or fourth test and had the original plates which was weird!

NY has safety inspections, so all of the same are tested too. Inspections are performed by licensed shops which are mechanic shops, so they are not motivated to pass you, since they can sell you service.

 

[Apple fanboy]

NY has safety inspections, so all of the same are tested too. Inspections are performed by licensed shops which are mechanic shops, so they are not motivated to pass you, since they can sell you service.

Same situation here. Mist people get the annual service and inspection done at the same time and place. That way they tend to not ‘find’ extra issues.

 

[hobowankenobi]

Where did you get the weights from?

Model Y( Juniper) is 4396 lb.

RAV4 is 3640 lb.

Model Y though is a bigger vehicle. Sitting in between RAV4 and Highlander. Highlander is 4155 lb.

Sources: Tesla and Toyota website.

I googled around, and found several different numbers. It could vary by year, too. That's why I used "lightest" as a descriptor.

Regardless, the point stands: EVs are not substantially heavier than similar ICE. Neither EV or ICE cars are heavy enough to be responsible for the majority of road damage.

 

[hobowankenobi]

Tolls on roads are the only sane way to do taxes based on usage. Plus it captures folks that are "out of towners" which a flat registration tax misses. I do most of my driving in VA even though I live in NC, don't pay any fuel taxes in VA for my road usage. Think of all the out of state plates for all the military folk in the Hampton Roads area.

This addresses congestion, but not wear...at least not if one believes that heavy trucking is in fact responsible for the majority of damage and upkeep costs.

And yes, with the states based taxes, you are right that one stage could collect the majority of taxes, and another the majority of congestion/noise/pollution/damage.

 

[quagmire]

I googled around, and found several different numbers. It could vary by year, too. That's why I used "lightest" as a descriptor.

Regardless, the point stands: EVs are not substantially heavier than similar ICE. Neither EV or ICE cars are heavy enough to be responsible for the majority of road damage.

Lightest Model Y being the Model Y RWD is 4154 lb. I have no clue where you could have gotten that 3500 lb. figure.

And in comparison to the RAV4, it is significantly heavier.

Here is a better comparison.

Civic and Model 3 are roughly same size.

Civic curb weight is 2875 lb.

Model 3 RWD LR is 3891 lb.

The lightest Model 3 being an NCA Standard Range model offered a few years ago before Tesla replaced it with an LFP pack is 3627 lb. The LFP Model 3 being 3885 lb.

800 lb. heavier at the minimum is substantially heavier given the similar size dimensions.

 

[Apple fanboy]

Lightest Model Y being the Model Y RWD is 4154 lb. I have no clue where you could have gotten that 3500 lb. figure.

And in comparison to the RAV4, it is significantly heavier.

2950 lb here with my carbon fibre body. Makes it lighter than a lot of ice vehicles.

 

[quagmire]

2950 lb here with my carbon fibre body. Makes it lighter than a lot of ice vehicles.

At 158" long, it is also significantly smaller than the Honda Civic and Model 3.

While still weighing 70 lb. more than the much bigger Civic.

BUT I will give it credit for being smart with its weight given the Chevy Bolt weighs 3597 lb and similar size to the i3.

 

[Apple fanboy]

At 158" long, it is also significantly smaller than the Honda Civic and Model 3.

While still weighing 70 lb. more than the much bigger Civic.

70 lb is nothing. That is less than a passenger!