Who has or is planning to get an electric car / EV Talk

[quagmire]

70 lb is nothing. That is less than a passenger!

It's smaller and heavier. That's the main point.

The i3 is a lot smaller than the Civic, but still heavier.

An EV with similar dimensions to the Civic such as the Model 3 is 800 lb. heavier than it.

The Ioniq 5 is dimensionally similar to the RAV4 and at its lightest it is 4144 lb.

The Ioniq 6 is actually a mid-size sedan at its lightest is 3395 lb. which is decently impressive, but need the 340 mile range that jumps to 4222 lb.

 

[richard13]

So no annual inspection for roadworthiness at all? That’s scary!

Every place I have ever lived in does not have an inspection for roadworthiness. Maybe emissions, but that's when I drove an ICE vehicle.

I'm not saying it's right. I'm just saying that's my experience of driving all over the country for 40 years.

 

[Apple fanboy]

Every place I have ever lived in does not have an inspection for roadworthiness. Maybe emissions, but that's when I drove an ICE vehicle.

I'm not saying it's right. I'm just saying that's my experience of driving all over the country for 40 years.

Always lived in the UK and we always have. I think I prefer knowing all the cars on the road have been tested every 12 months.

 

[timber]

April numbers are in. In the UK 536 new Tesla’s sold in April compared to 1404 in the same month the previous year.
That’s despite a growing shift to EV’s in the UK (currently around 20-25% of all new car sales are EV).

That’s a poor month by any metric.

It's the same all over Europe. They are now offering around 4000 euros in several countries.
I'm kind of sad because I love the car itself.

 

[Apple fanboy]

It's the same all over Europe. They are now offering around 4000 euros in several countries.
I'm kind of sad because I love the car itself.

I don’t like the car, although they have got some things right compared to others. But the CEO has done all he can to kill the brand in Europe.

 

[diamond.g]

This addresses congestion, but not wear...at least not if one believes that heavy trucking is in fact responsible for the majority of damage and upkeep costs.

And yes, with the states based taxes, you are right that one stage could collect the majority of taxes, and another the majority of congestion/noise/pollution/damage.

At least the Chesapeake Expressway charges by axel. So trucks are covered, I see no reason why other tolls couldn't do the same.

 

[Tagbert]

I agree. If you use the roads, you should be paying to use them- ICE vehicles obviously pay through gas/diesel taxes. EV’s theoretically wear out the roads faster due to their heavier weight compared to similar ICE vehicles, instant torque, and regenerative braking.

How you implement such a system isn’t as easy as taxing fuel, which is a reasonably fair system- the more gas you use, the more taxes you pay. Since every state has different policies regarding inspections, perhaps just charging a flat tax annually is the easiest option.

All that said, there is a balance in promoting EVs as a technology. There’s already a lot of incentives and adoption has been relatively tepid. When to implement such taxes should be considered.

Many (most?) US states already charge $100-200 extra for EVs as part of the annual registration to offset the lack of gas tax. That is already more than a gas vehicle pays in gas taxes. This federal tax will more than double that. It is punitive at that point.

EVs are on average heavier than ICEVs but not heavier than all ICEVs and only incrementally heavier. Not enough to make much difference in road wear. You have to go to commercial vehicles before the additional weight becomes significant.

 

[Apple fanboy]

Many (most?) US states already charge $100-200 extra for EVs as part of the annual registration to offset the lack of gas tax. That is already more than a gas vehicle pays in gas taxes. This federal tax will more than double that. It is punitive at that point.

EVs are on average heavier than ICEVs but not heavier than all ICEVs and only incrementally heavier. Not enough to make much difference in road wear. You have to go to commercial vehicles before the additional weight becomes significant.

In the UK I’d estimate we are paying more than £100-200 a month on fuel duty so a lot cheaper to drive EV

 

[SalisburySam]

So why not just do it at the annual inspection? Mileage last year was was ****. This year it’s **** so at ** p/c per mile you pay. Easy. Those that travel the most pay the most.

In the US, not all states have an annual inspection. Also, in some states that do, some of the counties in those states do not. But to your point, this could easily be a registration requirement whether done at an inspection or just normal DMV office or online registration renewal. For those prone to fudging an artificially low number, the registration clerk COULD go out and verify the odometer, and for online registration there could be something you have to electronically sign stating the veracity of your mileage number. Regardless, this is easily done and I still think a far better way of assessing taxes and fees for road usage.

 

[JT2002TJ]

In the UK I’d estimate we are paying more than £100-200 a month on fuel duty so a lot cheaper to drive EV

You are paying more than £100-200 in taxes on gas per month? WOW...

I was paying $700 a month in total gas with 2 cars prior to going EV. A small percentage of that is State/Federal taxes for highways (not accounting for sales tax).

EDIT: I think it is around 7%

 

[timber]

I used to spend around at least 200 euros per month in fuel (diesel) and considering most of the price is taxes you do get around those figures.

 

[Apple fanboy]

You are paying more than £100-200 in taxes on gas per month? WOW...

I was paying $700 a month in total gas with 2 cars prior to going EV. A small percentage of that is State/Federal taxes for highways (not accounting for sales tax).

EDIT: I think it is around 7%

More like 49% here.

 

[Beerstalker]

You are paying more than £100-200 in taxes on gas per month? WOW...

I was paying $700 a month in total gas with 2 cars prior to going EV. A small percentage of that is State/Federal taxes for highways (not accounting for sales tax).

EDIT: I think it is around 7%

Tax on fuel in the US is much higher than you think, it is not just sales tax. It ranges from $0.2735-0.76 per gallon on gasoline, and $0.3335-0.985 per gallon on diesel depending on the state.

Fuel taxes in the United States - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Apple fanboy]

We currently pay around £1.38 a litre unleaded.
£1.44 a litre for Diesel.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

We currently pay around £1.38 a litre unleaded.
£1.44 a litre for Diesel.

In the UK I pay around £1.36 ($1.81) for a litre of Super Unleaded (E5), In the Netherlands I paid last week €2.21 ($2.49) for a litre of E5. And in Belgium €1.67 ($1.88). Needless to say, I pop across the border and fill up there, and going back today I fill up in the UK. But the state of the roads, infrastructure, and considering general happiness (according to the UN reports) the highest taxation actually leads by many miles.

In comparison, I pay 7p ($0.09) for a kW at our home in the UK, and once done it be like 0-3 cents ($0.03) in our place in the Netherlands.

Our little green machine is the clear winner.

 

[SalisburySam]

We currently pay around £1.38 a litre unleaded.
£1.44 a litre for Diesel.

Over here (US) that would translate to $1.53/liter. Which would be 1.53 * 3.785 liters per gallon or $5.79/gallon if my math is correct. Due to our unwavering and perhaps escalating support for the fossil fuel industry, unleaded fuel near my home is $2.79/gallon out the nozzle or slightly less than half the UK pricing. This includes whatever Federal and State taxes are applied.

At our low gasoline pricing, EVs have some but not overwhelming attraction from pure fuel savings, and it has been so for years in many parts of the US. Where taxes make fuel expensive (California, Alaska, Hawaii, etc.) electricity is also expensive. And whenever I expect fuel to take a pricing leap, it doesn’t. Plus the US is now a fuel exporter so I don’t see a change in the near future.

Lots of reasons to transition from ICE to EV but fuel savings is only a minor one of these.

 

[JT2002TJ]

Over here (US) that would translate to $1.53/liter. Which would be 1.53 * 3.785 liters per gallon or $5.79/gallon if my math is correct. Due to our unwavering and perhaps escalating support for the fossil fuel industry, unleaded fuel near my home is $2.79/gallon out the nozzle or slightly less than half the UK pricing. This includes whatever Federal and State taxes are applied.

At our low gasoline pricing, EVs have some but not overwhelming attraction from pure fuel savings, and it has been so for years in many parts of the US. Where taxes make fuel expensive (California, Alaska, Hawaii, etc.) electricity is also expensive. And whenever I expect fuel to take a pricing leap, it doesn’t. Plus the US is now a fuel exporter so I don’t see a change in the near future.

Lots of reasons to transition from ICE to EV but fuel savings is only a minor one of these.

This is 100% not true for me, as an owner of 2 EVs in downstate NY with home charging. This is only true if you are dependent on public charging. I went from >$600 (5 tanks per month for me, 2 for my wife) in fuel prices down to <$150 in electrical charging costs. If you have at home charging, even in states with higher electricity costs, you will typically have a significant savings vs. gas. Even with Fuel costs 1/2 of what I was paying, there still would be a significant savings.

If you are dependent on paid public charging, yeah, there is no significant savings in "fuel" costs.

With my 2 EVs I have used paid public charging 4 times in 2+ years.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

Lots of reasons to transition from ICE to EV but fuel savings is only a minor one of these.

I strongly agree, whilst the cost savings are nice undoubtedly, I do actually find it seriously nice and better drive. And there are many other reasons. We live in great times, there are some seriously good EVs available, and yes I even include Tesla with that as despite everything they truly are. But one almost can't buy a bad one at the moment.

It is not an opinion that makes me popular at other car groups, I think I have some delightful ICE vehicles to my disposal. They are fun, but on a day to day, EV is a clear winner to me.

This is my silver trio (ok the Panamera is a supercharged V6 with Hybrid drivetrain and is my daily as the green machine is my wife's favourite), and then there is in the garage a helius blue VW Golf Mk2 GTI.

 

[Apple fanboy]

This is 100% not true for me, as an owner of 2 EVs in downstate NY with home charging. This is only true if you are dependent on public charging. I went from >$600 (5 tanks per month for me, 2 for my wife) in fuel prices down to <$150. If you have at home charging, even in states with higher electricity costs, you will typically have a significant savings vs. gas. Even with Fuel costs 1/2 of what I was paying, there still would be a significant savings.

If you are dependent on paid public charging, yeah, there is no significant savings in "fuel" costs.

With my 2 EVs I have used paid public charging 4 times in 2+ years.

Same in the UK I’d say.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

This is 100% not true for me, as an owner of 2 EVs in downstate NY with home charging. This is only true if you are dependent on public charging. I went from >$600 (5 tanks per month for me, 2 for my wife) in fuel prices down to <$150. If you have at home charging, even in states with higher electricity costs, you will typically have a significant savings vs. gas. Even with Fuel costs 1/2 of what I was paying, there still would be a significant savings.

If you are dependent on paid public charging, yeah, there is no significant savings in "fuel" costs.

With my 2 EVs I have used paid public charging 4 times in 2+ years.

Same in the UK I’d say.

Same everywhere realistically. My wife went from GBP60 every 3 days (surprisingly small tank in a BMW M2C), to like GBP480 for the year in Electric.

 

[jz0309]

Over here (US) that would translate to $1.53/liter. Which would be 1.53 * 3.785 liters per gallon or $5.79/gallon if my math is correct. Due to our unwavering and perhaps escalating support for the fossil fuel industry, unleaded fuel near my home is $2.79/gallon out the nozzle or slightly less than half the UK pricing. This includes whatever Federal and State taxes are applied.

At our low gasoline pricing, EVs have some but not overwhelming attraction from pure fuel savings, and it has been so for years in many parts of the US. Where taxes make fuel expensive (California, Alaska, Hawaii, etc.) electricity is also expensive. And whenever I expect fuel to take a pricing leap, it doesn’t. Plus the US is now a fuel exporter so I don’t see a change in the near future.

Lots of reasons to transition from ICE to EV but fuel savings is only a minor one of these.

Actually, this is GBP, and 1.38GBP is about $1.84US so the price here in the US for 1 gallon is $6.94. And the delta is all taxes…

 

[SalisburySam]

Actually, this is GBP, and 1.38GBP is about $1.84US so the price here in the US for 1 gallon is $6.94. And the delta is all taxes…

Oooopsies, my bad. I used Euros not pounds which makes your costs even worse. American oblivious to the details obviously.

 

[jz0309]

Oooopsies, my bad. I used Euros not pounds which makes your costs even worse. American oblivious to the details obviously.

The UK never adopted the Euro, so you just need to look at the currency symbol being used…

But yes, the thing is, cost for crude oil and refining it is very similar but the Europeans pay way way more in taxes…

 

[Apple fanboy]

Oooopsies, my bad. I used Euros not pounds which makes your costs even worse. American oblivious to the details obviously.

Its okay. Most of my EV charging is free at work. So I'm saving every month. Had my EV 3 years now. Love not paying for my milage (for a change!).

 

[diggy33]

After weeks of deliberation, test driving various makes, my wife has decided to get a Tesla Model 3 Long Range RWD for her daily commuter, so we'll take delivery of it in 2 - 4 weeks, according to Tesla. I work from home so we had gone down to just 1 vehicle about 3 years ago, but its getting to the point now where a 2nd vehicle is again becoming a necessity.