Who has or is planning to get an electric car / EV Talk

[richard13]

Those that have had a circuit installed for a Tesla home charger, did you get a surge protector installed? I've got a couple quotes back for the charger install, and one company recommends a surge protector install, and the other doesnt mention it at all. So I am just curious to hear what others have done?

I had a circuit installed in my last house and no surge protector. In my current residence, they wanted a mint to run the line so I'm just charging with 120v here. It works for me because I don't drive as much. I'll consider a whole house protector in my next house.

I would think it largely depends on the likelihood of surge/lightning strike. I have never had such a thing happen until last summer when I was out of town. Neighbors tell me there was a strike near our homes and several had power issues. Personally, I had to replace the GFI outlet in the garage. I had call an electrician to fix my kitchen lights because I couldn't figure out what was wrong. And I keep finding functionality in some of my electronics that don't work anymore (my Apple TV works but the ethernet port is broken, etc.)

 

[JT2002TJ]

I had a circuit installed in my last house and no surge protector. In my current residence, they wanted a mint to run the line so I'm just charging with 120v here. It works for me because I don't drive as much. I'll consider a whole house protector in my next house.

I would think it largely depends on the likelihood of surge/lightning strike. I have never had such a thing happen until last summer when I was out of town. Neighbors tell me there was a strike near our homes and several had power issues. Personally, I had to replace the GFI outlet in the garage. I had call an electrician to fix my kitchen lights because I couldn't figure out what was wrong. And I keep finding functionality in some of my electronics that don't work anymore (my Apple TV works but the ethernet port is broken, etc.)

Just FYI, if you have a dedicated 120v outlet, with 12 gauge wiring, you can make it a 20 amp 220v outlet by using both the black and white wires with a ground, and a 220v 20 amp breaker. If you get a 220v breaker that is slim, you could easily do it yourself, if you get the right outlet and mobile charger adapter.

It has to be 12 gauge wiring AND a dedicated run.

To be safe, ask an electrician.

 

[timber]

Just out of curiosity (never heard about that measuring system) I googled to see which section "12 gauge" meant and it seems it's 3.31mm^2.
20 A circuits usually use 4mm^2 wires here (4.6 kVA). And 2.5mm^2 for 16A or 3,68 kVA (standard outlets), 1.5mm^2 for 10A (lighting). For EV chargers 6mm^2 is common (32A).

 

[Apple fanboy]

I know you guys are trying to help, but all this talk of gauge of wire etc makes me nervous.
Seriously when it comes to chargers, PLEASE get a qualified electrician to do it. They know what they are doing. It’s not really a DIY job for 99% of people.

 

[JT2002TJ]

Just out of curiosity (never heard about that measuring system) I googled to see which section "12 gauge" meant and it seems it's 3.31mm^2.
20 A circuits usually use 4mm^2 wires here (4.6 kVA). And 2.5mm^2 for 16A or 3,68 kVA (standard outlets), 1.5mm^2 for 10A (lighting). For EV chargers 6mm^2 is common (32A).

When an electrician runs a dedicated 120v 20 amp circuit they should be using 12/2. If they did, that is perfectly adequate to convert to a 220V 20 Amp outlet (you use both the white and black as hots and the ground). The important thing is that the panel can handle the load, and the outlet used is commercial grade (not the cheap HD/Lowes versions, unless designed for EV use).

And yes, if you do not know what you are doing, you should use an electrician. This is just information to bring to your electrician. You can ask them if 1) the run is dedicated 2) if the panel can handle the load and if they can convert the outlet to a Nema 6-20.

The mobile plug adapter is for a 240V Nema 6-20 ($35 on Tesla’s site) which replaces the plug on the Tesla mobile adapter (if you have one).

When I move and buy my next house, I will plan to have a 60 Amp circuit load shared between 2 TWCs, I will also run a Nema 6-20 outlet that I wont regularly use. The 6-20 will be under the whole house generator, while the 60 Amp Wall Connectors wont. This way during a power outage, I will be able to charge, without overloading the generator. Areas where we plan to move to, seem to have regular power outages.

 

[JT2002TJ]

I know you guys are trying to help, but all this talk of gauge of wire etc makes me nervous.
Seriously when it comes to chargers, PLEASE get a qualified electrician to do it. They know what they are doing. It’s not really a DIY job for 99% of people.

Yes. But it’s also important to know what an electrician is doing, or what options are available. If not, you can end up with something you don’t want, or even worse, a job done that is dangerous.

I would never get a major job done without researching and understanding what is being done before hiring someone. When I hire someone, I already know what needs to be done, this way I can see if they actually know what they are doing, or if they are trying to upsell me for no reason.

A Nema 6-20 is a dirty little secret that isn’t often discussed. For those who rely on 120v charging, it is a great way to get more than 2x the charging speed (5-15/20 which is 3-4 mph vs 6-20 which is 15 mph), without a huge expense if there isn’t a need for more. Most people can survive off of 3.8 kwh charging per vehicle.

 

[Apple fanboy]

Yes. But it’s also important to know what an electrician is doing, or what options are available. If not, you can end up with something you don’t want, or even worse, a job done that is dangerous.

I would never get a major job done without researching and understanding what is being done before hiring someone. When I hire someone, I already know what needs to be done, this way I can see if they actually know what they are doing, or if they are trying to upsell me for no reason.

A Nema 6-20 is a dirty little secret that isn’t often discussed. For those who rely on 120v charging, it is a great way to get more than 2x the charging speed (5-15/20 which is 3-4 mph vs 6-20 which is 15 mph), without a huge expense if there isn’t a need for more. Most people can survive off of 3.8 kwh charging per vehicle.

I have a trusted electrician that rewired my entire house and fitted a new consumer unit. When I bought my EV and charger I just called him to do the fitting. He is fully qualified and knows what he's doing. I just left him to it.

 

[JT2002TJ]

I have a trusted electrician that rewired my entire house and fitted a new consumer unit. When I bought my EV and charger I just called him to do the fitting. He is fully qualified and knows what he's doing. I just left him to it.

Yup. Once you find a trusted electrician you are all set.

When you are looking, and don’t have the benefit of recommendations, you may need to test their competency and ability to not upsell (unless needed).

When I call electricians/plumbers/mechanics I play dumb and see if they are trying to BS me. It is surprising how many dishonest contractors are out there.

Just like there are tons of people who only need 120v 15 amp charging, but can benefit from the 6-20. I have only heard people mention it online, most electricians want to give you the EV tax and upsell you a 60 Amp 240v install and want to throw in a new main panel while they are at it. A run for 6-20 may run you <$250 with parts.

 

[Apple fanboy]

Yup. Once you find a trusted electrician you are all set.

When you are looking, and don’t have the benefit of recommendations, you may need to test their competency and ability to not upsell (unless needed).

When I call electricians/plumbers/mechanics I play dumb and see if they are trying to BS me. It is surprising how many dishonest contractors are out there.

Just like there are tons of people who only need 120v 15 amp charging, but can benefit from the 6-20. I have only heard people mention it online, most electricians want to give you the EV tax and upsell you a 60 Amp 240v install and want to throw in a new main panel while they are at it. A run for 6-20 may run you <$250 with parts.

All 240V here in the UK so probably less of a concern. You can change a plug or light socket if you are competent. But I would not think fitting a charger is a DIY job. You certainly need it certified if you plan to sell your house (at least in the UK).

 

[MattG]

Hey I can finally add something to this thread!

My wife and I have a Volvo EX-30 on order, scheduled to arrive sometime next week. I hope. It's been delayed twice but I'm told it's "left the port."

We bought a ChargePoint charger for the garage (direct wire) and our electrician wired it up to a new 60A breaker (so, we'll pull 48A). Excited to try all this for the first time!

 

[jz0309]

Hey I can finally add something to this thread!

My wife and I have a Volvo EX-30 on order, scheduled to arrive sometime next week. I hope. It's been delayed twice but I'm told it's "left the port."

We bought a ChargePoint charger for the garage (direct wire) and our electrician wired it up to a new 60A breaker (so, we'll pull 48A). Excited to try all this for the first time!

Congrats and enjoy, post pics when you get it.

 

[Apple fanboy]

Hey I can finally add something to this thread!

My wife and I have a Volvo EX-30 on order, scheduled to arrive sometime next week. I hope. It's been delayed twice but I'm told it's "left the port."

We bought a ChargePoint charger for the garage (direct wire) and our electrician wired it up to a new 60A breaker (so, we'll pull 48A). Excited to try all this for the first time!

Enjoy! Is this your first EV? Once you drive one you'll never want to go back. Had my BWM i3s just over 3 years and it's still so much fun to drive.

 

[timber]

I know you guys are trying to help, but all this talk of gauge of wire etc makes me nervous.
Seriously when it comes to chargers, PLEASE get a qualified electrician to do it. They know what they are doing. It’s not really a DIY job for 99% of people.

I consider myself qualified (I'm a power systems engineer) but I also got an electrician because there are codes, specific experience, standard practices, access to materials and just plain tools that I don't have or plan buying for one job. And the largest cost is the charger itself. I also don't particularly enjoy the drilling part (everything is brick or concrete here).
If I need to change an outlet or something like that I will do it myself. I have screwdrivers.
Like our forum friend I also play dead and watch to see what they propose me. Although you don't really learn to wire buildings (you learn to draw it conceptually) in Engineering school I also learned that a long time ago in high school.

 

[JT2002TJ]

I consider myself qualified (I'm a power systems engineer) but I also got an electrician because there are codes, specific experience, standard practices, access to materials and just plain tools that I don't have or plan buying for one job. And the largest cost is the charger itself. I also don't particularly enjoy the drilling part (everything is brick or concrete here).
If I need to change an outlet or something like that I will do it myself. I have screwdrivers.
Like our forum friend I also play dead and watch to see what they propose me. Although you don't really learn to wire buildings (you learn to draw it conceptually) in Engineering school I also learned that a long time ago in high school.

With my home charger, I paid to have it installed. The run was 125 ft (panels in the basement on the opposite side wall from the outer garage wall). So for me, the most expensive part was the wire. It was also early 2022 during the supply shortage when wire was more than gold 😂.

I did 50 amp service. I also don’t like messing with drilling, conduit and fishing wires…

 

[cyb3rdud3]

Not too worried about the bio defense, as cool as it sounds. My commute is through the country so the worst smells are not horrible at all as it is all farm land and I am rarely ever behind anyone on my morning and home commute.

The Y I think I will be getting is the 7 seater, though I think it is a bit rich to be calling it a 7 seater as that back row is pretty much useless even for most kids, zero leg room.

I find that very few cars, let alone SUVs or 4×4s, are true 7 seats where all seats can actually be used. Or where an adult in reasonable comfort can sit as well, and it is a nice drive as well. The only ones considering in my experience are a Land Rover Discovery — surprisingly easy to get in the third row as an adult. Mercedes GLS class — definitely don't want to be corpulent, but then it is pretty comfortable. And for an EV, my favourite would actually be the KIA EV9, a surprisingly good car and very practical layout. I just so dislike that shiny grey plastic they use.

 

[timber]

With my home charger, I paid to have it installed. The run was 125 ft (panels in the basement on the opposite side wall from the outer garage wall). So for me, the most expensive part was the wire. It was also early 2022 during the supply shortage when wire was more than gold 😂.

I did 50 amp service. I also don’t like messing with drilling, conduit and fishing wires…

That's quite a lot of cabling. Do you have voltage drop issues? If I understood the american gauge chart correctly that would result in about 8V drop. Here that would be acceptable (230V to 222V)
I managed to take power from my apartment storage which has 4mm2 cabling from my main panel (3rd to -1). That circuit already has 20A protection. It was quite overkill for a 6 or 7 m^2 (~65 square feet) room with just one outlet and a light bulb but it did come handy now. I looked it up and it seems almost equal to the US 11 gauge.
Ideally I would have changed that to 6mm^2 to get 32A and the possibility of the max 7.4 kW allowed by the wall charger in single phase. That would be between 10 and 9 gauge.
But it just wasn't feasible. Perhaps some day when some renovation may happen in the building main conduit (I don't know the right naming in English).
So it was just 2 or 3 metres (probably around 8 feet) to the storage with 6mm^2 (for some day) and the wall charger set to a 20A max.
In practice I almost always set it at 16A (3.68 kVA which would yield around 16 hours for a 20-80 in a LR 75 kWh battery) so that it runs through offpeak pricing and leaves some buffer for a washing machine or whatever. I only have 6,9 kVA contracted power. I could go higher just by asking but there's no need to pay more.

 

[wonderings]

I find that very few cars, let alone SUVs or 4×4s, are true 7 seats where all seats can actually be used. Or where an adult in reasonable comfort can sit as well, and it is a nice drive as well. The only ones considering in my experience are a Land Rover Discovery — surprisingly easy to get in the third row as an adult. Mercedes GLS class — definitely don't want to be corpulent, but then it is pretty comfortable. And for an EV, my favourite would actually be the KIA EV9, a surprisingly good car and very practical layout. I just so dislike that shiny grey plastic they use.

For me the Tesla is the only EV I would want in Canada simply for the tech that is in them, mainly the self driving. I am not well versed in the other manufacturers EV's but have test drove a Chevy EV (can't remember the model name) and it was basically just a car, nothing in it really made me go wow. I love the simplicity in the Tesla's. Nothing wrong with the others, just a personal choice.

 

[JT2002TJ]

That's quite a lot of cabling. Do you have voltage drop issues? If I understood the american gauge chart correctly that would result in about 8V drop. Here that would be acceptable (230V to 222V)
I managed to take power from my apartment storage which has 4mm2 cabling from my main panel (3rd to -1). That circuit already has 20A protection. It was quite overkill for a 6 or 7 m^2 (~65 square feet) room with just one outlet and a light bulb but it did come handy now. I looked it up and it seems almost equal to the US 11 gauge.
Ideally I would have changed that to 6mm^2 to get 32A and the possibility of the max 7.4 kW allowed by the wall charger in single phase. That would be between 10 and 9 gauge.
But it just wasn't feasible. Perhaps some day when some renovation may happen in the building main conduit (I don't know the right naming in English).
So it was just 2 or 3 metres (probably around 8 feet) to the storage with 6mm^2 (for some day) and the wall charger set to a 20A max.
In practice I almost always set it at 16A (3.68 kVA which would yield around 16 hours for a 20-80 in a LR 75 kWh battery) so that it runs through offpeak pricing and leaves some buffer for a washing machine or whatever. I only have 6,9 kVA contracted power. I could go higher just by asking but there's no need to pay more.

I do get voltage drop, it's 238v (down from 240v) giving me between 9 kW - 10 kW. I am using NM-B 6/3 (at the time it was cheaper than any other wire I could find including 6/2) on my 50 Amp circuit. The extra wire sits unused. I also wanted to use 6/3 in case I move (which we plan to) I can take my wall connector and replace it with a 220V outlet for the future owners. So, the extra wire isn't wasted.

 

[timber]

For some reason I seemed to remember you mentioning 12 gauge. Using wire for 50 Amps the resistance would be much lower and there much less voltage drop.

 

[MattG]

Yes first one!

Enjoy! Is this your first EV? Once you drive one you'll never want to go back. Had my BWM i3s just over 3 years and it's still so much fun to drive.

 

[JT2002TJ]

For some reason I seemed to remember you mentioning 12 gauge. Using wire for 50 Amps the resistance would be much lower and there much less voltage drop.

The poster I was responding to said they had an electrician install a 20 amp outlet for their 110v charging. I was pointing out, that if it truly was a dedicated 20 amp run using 12/2 wiring, they may have the option of converting that 110v outlet into a NEMA 6-20 (240v), which uses 12/2 wiring by moving the neutral to a second 110v, making it 240v 20 amps. Not my current setup, but something a lot of 110v EV owners are unaware of, as it isn't talked about much.

*If you do not know what you are doing, have an electrician do this...

When we move and get our next house (being a 2 EV household), I will have a NEMA 6-20 outlet installed as a backup. It will be under the whole house generator that I plan to get. The 220v 60-amp run will be shared between 2 wall connectors, but if/when the power goes out, will not be powered by the generator. This is my plan, at least for now. It is nice, because it easily can be converted back to a 110v outlet.

*The whole 110v-120v or 220v-240v thing makes it hard in a discussion because people are used to saying 110v or 220v when in reality the US is 120v or 240v for residential.

 

[timber]

It's also very common here to ear people saying 220V when the nominal voltage is 230V.

 

[Digital Dude]

I took the Model 3 for a test drive and, while the instant acceleration was a blast, everything else left me pretty underwhelmed. The self-driving mode felt a tad finicky, the seats weren’t comfortable for me, and that tablet-style dashboard just looked like an afterthought. Now, if it was detachable and could be used as an android tablet, that would be different.

And then there’s the whole spontaneous combustion thing’ which is not exactly reassuring when you’re parking it in your garage. If Tesla switches to sodium-carbon batteries or something equally stable with a higher energy density for longer range, I’d definitely be more open to it.

By 2027, when they go fully autonomous, I could actually benefit from that, based on my condition. 🤷‍♂

 

[Apple fanboy]

I took the Model 3 for a test drive and, while the instant acceleration was a blast, everything else left me pretty underwhelmed. The self-driving mode felt shaky at best, the seats weren’t comfortable for me, and that tablet-style dashboard just looked like an afterthought.

And then there’s the whole spontaneous combustion thing which not exactly reassuring when you’re parking it in your garage. If Tesla switches to sodium-carbon batteries or something equally stable, I’d definitely be more open to it.

By 2027, when they go fully autonomous, I could actually benefit from that, especially with my disability becoming more limiting. 🤷‍♂️

Couldn’t agree more on the Tesla interior styling. Just not how I’d ever want my car to look.

Couldn’t agree less on the spontaneous combustion thing. I’m not saying that car fires with EV’s don’t happen. Just that they are far less common than ICE car fires. Even when you factor in the fact that their are more ICE cars on the road.

 

[timber]

It's a very personal thing. I personally like the spartan interiors. For exemple I really dislike Mercedes interiors because that seems just too much bling for me.

If I could design the Model 3/Y exactly to my taste I would add a driver screen or an HUD but the rest is perfect by me. And keep the stalks like it seems they decided to do.

The spontaneous fire thing... well that's full on FUD.