Who has or is planning to get an electric car / EV Talk

[Certificate of Excellence]

I will get an EV after I put panels on my house which Im hoping to get to within the next 2-5 years. By then Im hoping to get into:

1. An EV Truck with a full size bed that looks like a normal truck & not an aluminum wedge of cheese.
2. 500miles + per charge
3. 4 door fullsize cab.
4. a full quick charge within 20 minutes.

As it stands, the 1996 dodge truck I have now is:

1. Paid for
2. Has its original motor and transmission
3. Cheap full coverage insurance
4. I can work on it (where Id be a slave to the garage for an EV)
5. Just paid $2.40 Gal for UL fuel in my state.

The down side is that I only get around 220-240 miles per tank, but gas here has remained quite affordable in my state and my truck is for in-town putzing. If we need to go anywhere, my wife's Vdub Atlas gets around 420-450 miles per tank and uses the same $2.40 per gallon UL fuel. I will be motivated to go EV when I see EV battery & drivetrain efficiency push mileage out past the 500 mark and I think the EV industry probably isn't too far off from that honestly.

 

[Michael Scrip]

500 miles + per charge

Does anyone routinely drive 7 hours straight without stopping?

🤔

 

[jz0309]

I will get an EV after I put panels on my house which Im hoping to get to within the next 2-5 years. By then Im hoping to get into:

1. An EV Truck with a full size bed that looks like a normal truck & not an aluminum wedge of cheese.
2. 500miles + per charge
3. 4 door fullsize cab.
4. a full quick charge within 20 minutes.

Well, I think you are over optimistic in your timeframe of 2-5 years…
1. So a full size truck, like the F150 Lightning or the Silverado EV - have you checked those out re what they offer today?
2. 500+ mile range - in a full size truck only possible with a 250kWh+ battery.
3. I think both the models I mentioned above offer that.
4. An”full” charge within 20 min. I can tell you that today I can add almost 70kWh within 30 min into my Ioniq 5, that is possible today with an 800V architecture that none of the trucks I mentioned support.
My vehicle draws around 240kW at max. And this is on a state of the art 350kW charger.
Mega Watt chargers are in development and some have been deployed for EV big rig trucks afaik.
Battery technology of course is evolving and I think BYD has recently put a claim out re a MW charger and 5 or so min to a 80% charge in under 10 min (can’t remember the details).
So in general charging from like 10-80% is fast but beyond that it slows down significantly due to thermals, and that will most likely remain an issue even for newer battery tech.

 

[jz0309]

Does anyone routinely drive 7 hours straight without stopping?

🤔

This “long range” requirement has been discussed here many times, the vast majority of people need a pit stop way sooner than 7 hrs

 

[Apple fanboy]

I will get an EV after I put panels on my house which Im hoping to get to within the next 2-5 years. By then Im hoping to get into:

1. An EV Truck with a full size bed that looks like a normal truck & not an aluminum wedge of cheese.
2. 500miles + per charge
3. 4 door fullsize cab.
4. a full quick charge within 20 minutes.

As it stands, the 1996 dodge truck I have now is:

1. Paid for
2. Has its original motor and transmission
3. Cheap full coverage insurance
4. I can work on it (where Id be a slave to the garage for an EV)
5. Just paid $2.40 Gal for UL fuel in my state.

The down side is that I only get around 220-240 miles per tank, but gas here has remained quite affordable in my state and my truck is for in-town putzing. If we need to go anywhere, my wife's Vdub Atlas gets around 420-450 miles per tank and uses the same $2.40 per gallon UL fuel. I will be motivated to go EV when I see EV battery & drivetrain efficiency push mileage out past the 500 mark and I think the EV industry probably isn't too far off from that honestly.

So your current truck does 220-240 miles on a full tank, but you expect your EV to go 500 miles plus? Why?

You’ll have a full tank every morning if you charge at home. So unlike your current vehicle you’ll stop a whole lot less.
I mean is topping for 20-30 minutes every 3-4 hours that bad. How often do you drive that sort of distance?

Truth is the truck would cost a fortune if it did 500 miles plus and be very heavy. Outside of the US the sort of truck you are describing are not very common. So it’s going to have to be a US company that makes it.

 

[AlaskaMoose]

I will get an EV after I put panels on my house which Im hoping to get to within the next 2-5 years. By then Im hoping to get into:

1. An EV Truck with a full size bed that looks like a normal truck & not an aluminum wedge of cheese.
2. 500miles + per charge
3. 4 door fullsize cab.
4. a full quick charge within 20 minutes.

As it stands, the 1996 dodge truck I have now is:

1. Paid for
2. Has its original motor and transmission
3. Cheap full coverage insurance
4. I can work on it (where Id be a slave to the garage for an EV)
5. Just paid $2.40 Gal for UL fuel in my state.

The down side is that I only get around 220-240 miles per tank, but gas here has remained quite affordable in my state and my truck is for in-town putzing. If we need to go anywhere, my wife's Vdub Atlas gets around 420-450 miles per tank and uses the same $2.40 per gallon UL fuel. I will be motivated to go EV when I see EV battery & drivetrain efficiency push mileage out past the 500 mark and I think the EV industry probably isn't too far off from that honestly.

The only way I can see such a truck that is in future hybrid engine technology. Also, your old truck has an engine that is not thermally efficient nor is it fuel-injected, plus the truck's body and frame are quite heavy. But a good thing about your truck is that you can still drive it several more years, and it is easy to to repair or maintain, and best of all..."no monthly payments"

 

[adrianlondon]

Does anyone routinely drive 7 hours straight without stopping?

🤔

I guess* the angst comes not from people who drive for 7 hours without stopping, but from those who want to know they can stop when/where they like, not just at places with charging points.

* It is just a guess. My next car, if one exists in my life, will be an EV. Or whatever cool thing replaces EVs in the future.

 

[I7guy]

I guess* the angst comes not from people who drive for 7 hours without stopping, but from those who want to know they can stop when/where they like, not just at places with charging points.

That doesn’t work like that even with an ice car. A stop is need at the j resection if out of fuel and the next gas station. Same as an ev.

* It is just a guess. My next car, if one exists in my life, will be an EV. Or whatever cool thing replaces EVs in the future.

 

[SalisburySam]

…the j resection…

Er, “j resection”???

 

[AlaskaMoose]

I guess* the angst comes not from people who drive for 7 hours without stopping, but from those who want to know they can stop when/where they like, not just at places with charging points.

* It is just a guess. My next car, if one exists in my life, will be an EV. Or whatever cool thing replaces EVs in the future.

All depends on geographical locations, and the availability of gas or charing stations. For example, there are vast expanses of land in both the Northern Canadian regions and Alaska where there may not be stations. In this case it is best to stop to refuel before continuing with the travel ahead. There is such a place on The Dalton Highway, Alaska. This gas station is the last one that is available for a few hundred miles, so travelers refuel there and fill a few containers of extra fuel. But I doubt that anybody drives more than 5-6 hours without stopping to rest for a few minutes along the way, even if not at a gas station of rest stop.

That said, it is always reassuring to know that one can drive several hundred miles, even to go on a "round" trip without having to stop to refuel along the way. In some of the areas I drive in Alaska, I oftentimes take 10 to 15 gallons of gasoline in fuel cans and avoid buying some of the expensive fuel sold along the roads. I put the cans of fuel in the truck's bed.

 

[I7guy]

Er, “j resection”???

Intersection. Auto correct didn’t,

 

[Certificate of Excellence]

Does anyone routinely drive 7 hours straight without stopping?

🤔

I did for years as consultative work around a three state radius (gone about 2 weeks of each month). Im also considering the travel time it takes for my family to escape the desert southwest and make it back to the midwest to visit family and my brother which is about 20 hrs total one way. Lastly. I spend alot of time in the remote mountain logging roads etc hiking, fishing, scouting for elk etc.There are zero charging stations out there and I cannot afford to get stuck. When Im out there in my truck, I can just slap a gas can on and Im good to go. I cant stick an extra battery on an EV. I am more than happy to invest in EV but EV has to deliver the performance for me to invest in it and for my needs and expectations, it is not quite there yet.

It will get there. Im sure of it and Im hoping my panel investment coincides in the next jump in battery efficiency so I can take full advantage of the technology.

 

[Certificate of Excellence]

Well, I think you are over optimistic in your timeframe of 2-5 years…
1. So a full size truck, like the F150 Lightning or the Silverado EV - have you checked those out re what they offer today?
2. 500+ mile range - in a full size truck only possible with a 250kWh+ battery.
3. I think both the models I mentioned above offer that.
4. An”full” charge within 20 min. I can tell you that today I can add almost 70kWh within 30 min into my Ioniq 5, that is possible today with an 800V architecture that none of the trucks I mentioned support.
My vehicle draws around 240kW at max. And this is on a state of the art 350kW charger.
Mega Watt chargers are in development and some have been deployed for EV big rig trucks afaik.
Battery technology of course is evolving and I think BYD has recently put a claim out re a MW charger and 5 or so min to a 80% charge in under 10 min (can’t remember the details).
So in general charging from like 10-80% is fast but beyond that it slows down significantly due to thermals, and that will most likely remain an issue even for newer battery tech.

Hmm, well I am hopeful that I can get most of my wants out of a new EV in the next 5 years because where I live, the solar gain is insane, so panels/battery are definitely on the short list of upgrades to my home. It might be that I stick with a CE fuel truck and my wifes next vehicle will be the EV. Reading the discussion and what you guys advise and anticipate, that may be the more relistic next step for my family. My wife loves the Tesla car offerings.

 

[Michael Scrip]

the next jump in battery efficiency

But as batteries get more efficient in the future... manufacturers might use smaller batteries to save cost and weight. Therefore keeping the same range as today.

The real breakthrough might be with faster charging times rather than carrying around 500 miles of range in the battery pack.

At least you'll be able to "fill up" quicker even if you cannot drive for 7+ hours without stopping.

 

[Apple fanboy]

But as batteries get more efficient in the future... manufacturers might use smaller batteries to save cost and weight. Therefore keeping the same range as today.

The real breakthrough might be with faster charging times rather than carrying around 500 miles of range in the battery pack.

At least you'll be able to "fill up" quicker even if you cannot drive for 7+ hours without stopping.

Exactly. Unfortunately battery range has become such an issue that even when smaller batteries are offered, they don’t sell as well.
You just have to read through here about how many people expect a 500 mile plus EV.
Those who actually own EV’s don’t worry about range. We just drive and on occasion stop every few hours to charge. It’s what most people do with an ice car.

Yes there are places where it’s more of an issue and the poor charging structure in the US doesn’t help. But you’ll catch up with Europe eventually.

 

[JT2002TJ]

Exactly. Unfortunately battery range has become such an issue that even when smaller batteries are offered, they don’t sell as well.
You just have to read through here about how many people expect a 500 mile plus EV.
Those who actually own EV’s don’t worry about range. We just drive and on occasion stop every few hours to charge. It’s what most people do with an ice car.

Yes there are places where it’s more of an issue and the poor charging structure in the US doesn’t help. But you’ll catch up with Europe eventually.

To be fair, I wouldn't say exactly "catch up with Europe". Our major charging deserts are WAY outside of where people live. I'm sure if you go to remote parts of Europe there also are charging deserts. It's just that the areas of Europe most people talk about when it comes to charging are densely populated areas, with short distances between cities.

Access to charging stations is not an issue in our Major metropolitan areas. There is definitely a need for more, as you may have to wait, but you are never far from chargers. Most of Americans live on either coast, you pretty much can go North to South on these coasts without any charging issues at all.

I accept we are behind Europe in our charging infrastructure, but the areas people are talking about in the US with charging deserts have more livestock than people and hundreds of miles of small towns. For example, between Dallas TX and El Paso TX, there are areas with 100+ miles of no gas stations. I used to have to carry extra gas in my backpack for my motorcycle as it couldn't make it between these gas stations.

 

[Apple fanboy]

To be fair, I wouldn't say exactly "catch up with Europe". Our major charging deserts are WAY outside of where people live. I'm sure if you go to remote parts of Europe there also are charging deserts. It's just that the areas of Europe most people talk about when it comes to charging are densely populated areas, with short distances between cities.

Access to charging stations is not an issue in our Major metropolitan areas. There is definitely a need for more, as you may have to wait, but you are never far from chargers. Most of Americans live on either coast, you pretty much can go North to South on these coasts without any charging issues at all.

I accept we are behind Europe in our charging infrastructure, but the areas people are talking about in the US with charging deserts have more livestock than people and hundreds of miles of small towns. For example, between Dallas TX and El Paso TX, there are areas with 100+ miles of no gas stations. I used to have to carry extra gas in my backpack for my motorcycle as it couldn't make it between these gas stations.

My understanding that Tesla Super chargers are an option in the densely populated areas but not much else. That’s how it used to be here. But now there are lots of different options. Of course it helps we all use the same connection over here apart from the odd legacy Chadamo.
I have no first hand experience of driving an EV in the US. I won’t be heading back there any time soon either.

 

[richard13]

My understanding that Tesla Super chargers are an option in the densely populated areas but not much else. That’s how it used to be here. But now there are lots of different options. Of course it helps we all use the same connection over here apart from the odd legacy Chadamo.
I have no first hand experience of driving an EV in the US. I won’t be heading back there any time soon either.

I don't know about that. I have been to Tesla Superchargers that, although along the highway, are not anywhere near a city. Maybe a small town up the road.

But yea, we can always use more... I will be impressed when there is one in Cleveland, GA (where I have vacationed for many years). They only have ChargePoint today. But it is a high speed charger and I am happy for that.

 

[JT2002TJ]

My understanding that Tesla Super chargers are an option in the densely populated areas but not much else. That’s how it used to be here. But now there are lots of different options. Of course it helps we all use the same connection over here apart from the odd legacy Chadamo.
I have no first hand experience of driving an EV in the US. I won’t be heading back there any time soon either.

While Tesla's has by far the highest number of L3/L4 charges for a single company, and by far the most reliable network, there are quite a few other options including a lot of L2 in major markets. There are 4x flo L2 street chargers in front of my office. There are several companies that have charging, most of which require different apps with interest free loans (you have to put credits in your account). That is the part that we need to work the most, direct payment instead of app-based payments.

I do not mean to say we are not behind Europe at all, just that the geography of the US is quite unique. We are not as densely populated (other than the coasts; including the Southern coast), there is a LOT of empty land between cities. The best we can do is have chargers along these major interstates, but once you leave these arteries, there are going to be major gaps, just like I assume there would be in Europe.

 

[Apple fanboy]

While Tesla's has by far the highest number of L3/L4 charges for a single company, and by far the most reliable network, there are quite a few other options including a lot of L2 in major markets. There are 4x flo L2 street chargers in front of my office. There are several companies that have charging, most of which require different apps with interest free loans (you have to put credits in your account). That is the part that we need to work the most, direct payment instead of app-based payments.

I do not mean to say we are not behind Europe at all, just that the geography of the US is quite unique. We are not as densely populated (other than the coasts; including the Southern coast), there is a LOT of empty land between cities. The best we can do is have chargers along these major interstates, but once you leave these arteries, there are going to be major gaps, just like I assume there would be in Europe.

Yes the same in Europe, just not as many desolate areas.
Apps yes I get it. It’s not great, but we don’t really have an issue with contactless payments. Just waive your Apple Watch and you are done.

 

[Certificate of Excellence]

But as batteries get more efficient in the future... manufacturers might use smaller batteries to save cost and weight. Therefore keeping the same range as today.

The real breakthrough might be with faster charging times rather than carrying around 500 miles of range in the battery pack.

At least you'll be able to "fill up" quicker even if you cannot drive for 7+ hours without stopping.

That is a solid point. Perhaps the innovation will come with battery size and weight, so better range and you hit the nail on the head with charge times. It’s hard for me to like the idea of having to wait around for the battery to charge to 100% but if fast charging can get down to 10 minutes or so, that’s not too far off from filling your car and getting some snacks from the convenience center, using the restroom etc. That would be pretty doable for traveling.

Some type of portable charging solution would be great for getting lost out in the sticks (akin to an extra gas can) but again, maybe that will come with innovation to the alternator or perhaps that’s just not realistic yet for back country-ing EVs.

 

[Apple fanboy]

That is a solid point. Perhaps the innovation will come with battery size and weight, so better range and you hit the nail on the head with charge times. It’s hard for me to like the idea of having to wait around for the battery to charge to 100% but if fast charging can get down to 10 minutes or so, that’s not too far off from filling your car and getting some snacks from the convenience center, using the restroom etc. That would be pretty doable for traveling.

Some type of portable charging solution would be great for getting lost out in the sticks (akin to an extra gas can) but again, maybe that will come with innovation to the alternator or perhaps that’s just not realistic yet for back country-ing EVs.

Well charging to 100% isn’t the way to rapid charge. The closer you get to 100% the slower ALL cars charge. But 15-20 minutes to go from 10%-80% is fairly common these days. If the charging station is up to it.

 

[jz0309]

That is a solid point. Perhaps the innovation will come with battery size and weight, so better range and you hit the nail on the head with charge times. It’s hard for me to like the idea of having to wait around for the battery to charge to 100% but if fast charging can get down to 10 minutes or so, that’s not too far off from filling your car and getting some snacks from the convenience center, using the restroom etc. That would be pretty doable for traveling.

Some type of portable charging solution would be great for getting lost out in the sticks (akin to an extra gas can) but again, maybe that will come with innovation to the alternator or perhaps that’s just not realistic yet for back country-ing EVs.

Sure, some time in the future batteries will get smaller, lighter and hold more capacity, just until that is commercially available and affordable, you’re 10 years away at least imho.
And that “10 min” charging, it will requires chargers that are capable of that (Megawatt vs 350kW) today and it will require significant infrastructure investment.
AFAIK Tesla offers some kind of “extended battery” for the cybertruck, might want to check it out.

 

[JT2002TJ]

That is a solid point. Perhaps the innovation will come with battery size and weight, so better range and you hit the nail on the head with charge times. It’s hard for me to like the idea of having to wait around for the battery to charge to 100% but if fast charging can get down to 10 minutes or so, that’s not too far off from filling your car and getting some snacks from the convenience center, using the restroom etc. That would be pretty doable for traveling.

Some type of portable charging solution would be great for getting lost out in the sticks (akin to an extra gas can) but again, maybe that will come with innovation to the alternator or perhaps that’s just not realistic yet for back country-ing EVs.

The goal of charging on a trip is to get to the next stop with charger, not to fill up to 100% as you would with gas. If you need to go 200 miles until your next stop, on long range EVs you would charge to less than 80%. Tesla's route guidance will stop you for 10-25 minutes for this. Let's say the next leg of the trip is 150 miles, the route planner would expect you to only charge for 5-10 minutes to be able to get you that 150 miles.

Since charging isn't linear, the goal is to minimize time at a charger, while allowing for enough time to stretch your legs and go into the rest stop.

For DD, you would charge to 80% or less with L2 charging, so no need to worry, just plug it in and go on with your night.

 

[JT2002TJ]

Sure, some time in the future batteries will get smaller, lighter and hold more capacity, just until that is commercially available and affordable, you’re 10 years away at least imho.
And that “10 min” charging, it will requires chargers that are capable of that (Megawatt vs 350kW) today and it will require significant infrastructure investment.
AFAIK Tesla offers some kind of “extended battery” for the cybertruck, might want to check it out.

Just an FYI, I believe the Cybertruck extended range in-bed battery pack project was canceled.