Who has or is planning to get an electric car / EV Talk

[jaymc]

A 15 year old ICE car is also likely to need a few items as well.
Clutch
Gear box
Turbo
Exhaust
Radiator
Cam belt
Unlikely to have to change any of that.
But it definitely won’t need an annual oil change and spark plugs changed periodically.

Notice I’ve excluded the parts both types of cars use like tyres and suspension etc. those are more compatible.

The car I just bought has it’s service scheduled to once every two years. And it’s around £100 cheaper. That’s £3,500 difference over 15 years if you just did the basic service.

Yes a battery won’t last forever. But neither do ICE. I think your just dead against electric cars. That’s a shame as there are some great cars out there. But I come across the outdated views you hold quite a bit. Some people just aren’t ready to embrace change. You’ll come round. Or (in the U.K. at least), you’ll have to use the bus. As they will stop selling ICE cars in the near future.

As I posted earlier, I've got a 2013 Tesla Model S P85+; still has original brakes, motor, AC, etc... The only thing I've done to the car was update the main control unit (MCU 1 to MCU2) and from 3G to LTE and replace a faulty drivers side door handle.
Granted the car doesn't have all the bells and whistles of newer Teslas (updated batteries for longer range, auto-driving, better suspension, etc... ), and I have seriously looked at the newer models, but ...
My 9 year old car still drives like the day I bought it, has real leather seats and steering wheel, free entertainment (steaming, games, GPS and mapping updates, etc so no subscription fees) and it has free supercharging for when I do some extended travel.
With the price of cars skyrocketing, think I'll keep it for now.

As a side note - the MCU1 to MCU2 upgrade does get rid of you AM/FM radio (dedicated broadcast), but I can still listen through streaming. Surprisedly, found you don't loose your favorite radio stations when you do long trips.

 

[Apple fanboy]

As I posted earlier, I've got a 2013 Tesla Model S P85+; still has original brakes, motor, AC, etc... The only thing I've done to the car was update the main control unit (MCU 1 to MCU2) and from 3G to LTE and replace a faulty drivers side door handle.
Granted the car doesn't have all the bells and whistles of newer Teslas (updated batteries for longer range, auto-driving, better suspension, etc... ), and I have seriously looked at the newer models, but ...
My 9 year old car still drives like the day I bought it, has real leather seats and steering wheel, free entertainment (steaming, games, GPS and mapping updates, etc so no subscription fees) and it has free supercharging for when I do some extended travel.
With the price of cars skyrocketing, think I'll keep it for now.

As a side note - the MCU1 to MCU2 upgrade does get rid of you AM/FM radio (dedicated broadcast), but I can still listen through streaming. Surprisedly, found you don't loose your favorite radio stations when you do long trips.

So what is your range now and what where you getting when new if you don’t mind me asking?

 

[AlaskaMoose]

Perhaps you should purchase a 60 year old rotary telephone, too, because they are easy to repair.

All products have advantages and disadvantages, ICE and EV automobiles. For example, during a power outage where there isn't cell service, the old rotary-dial telephones still function-as long as you have a landline. The base of most landline cordless telephones of today has to be connected to an electrical outlet. But telephone lines (landlines) providers have emergency power units that keep the line powered.

 

[Apple fanboy]

All products have advantages and disadvantages, ICE and EV automobiles. For example, during a power outage where there isn't cell service, the old rotary-dial telephones still function-as long as you have a landline. The base of most landline cordless telephones of today has to be connected to an electrical outlet. But telephone lines (landlines) providers have emergency power units that keep the line powered.

We bought an old fashion telephone for that exact reason when we moved to the country.
I suppose if you had a long enough extension cord you could plug your phone into EV for those that have an internal plug!

 

[Tagbert]

That open pit mine looks a lot cleaner than this Canadian oil sands pit:

In addition, lithium will not be the only battery option. CATL is preparing to launch a sodium ion battery, and work is progressing on building batteries with sodium anodes. FYI - this is a sodium mine:

The mine that elvisimprsntr posted wasn’t even a lithium mine, it was a gold mine in Australia. that photo was posted as a lithium mine by an oil company backed disinformation site, and gets copies all over the place.

An actual lithium mine looks a lot like that salt mine, it is mostly warm water pumped through salt deposits and then dried in open air holding pool.

 

[Tagbert]

All products have advantages and disadvantages, ICE and EV automobiles. For example, during a power outage where there isn't cell service, the old rotary-dial telephones still function-as long as you have a landline. The base of most landline cordless telephones of today has to be connected to an electrical outlet. But telephone lines (landlines) providers have emergency power units that keep the line powered.

Also in most residential power outages, the cell service continues to work at least for an extended period of time.

 

[jaymc]

So what is your range now and what where you getting when new if you don’t mind me asking?

It was rated at 260 miles at 100% charge; last time I charged it to 100% it said 258 miles... not bad.

 

[Juicy Box]

I thought about getting a Tesla Model 3 back in 2018, and probably would have if it wasn't for the fact that I lived in a town home at the time and I was worried about issues charging it.

I have a lot of cars, 2 older fun cars, older truck for utilitarian purposes, and a newer family car for trips (wife's car), but in 2018, I was looking for an additional car, something newer, something that was going to be cheaper to commute with, and eventually, give to my kids to use.

In the summer of 2018, after testing multiple cars, I went with an ICE, 2019 Jetta S 1.4 Turbo with the manual trans. With rebates and negotiating, it was so cheap, it would have cost me more than twice as much to get the Model 3.

The Jetta was the base model, with only the Driver's Assist Package (safety package) installed, and I got it for $15,352.

The fuel economy in the Jetta with the manual trans is amazing. It averages over 36MPG (actual, not the on-board infotainment estimates), and my commutes are often over 50MPG according to the on-board calculations.

The best MPG for a tank was 42.3MPG.

Traffic, and a lot of red lights kill the fuel economy, and by that, it drops to the low 30s, which is still pretty amazing. If I can keep the car moving, with very little stops, the Jetta tends to stay above 45MPG.

The Jetta has a range of over 500 miles.

I have had it since Aug 2018, here is my fuel and service logs:


In four years, I have paid about $20,000 for the Jetta for the initial purchase (cost, taxes, tags, etc.), fuel, and service.

So, value wise, it is hard for most EVs, especially Teslas, to compete with the Jetta I purchased. That said, the Jetta is so boring to drive, and I bet the Model 3 would have been a lot more fun.

I might still get an EV, but not anytime soon.

 

[Apple fanboy]

It was rated at 260 miles at 100% charge; last time I charged it to 100% it said 258 miles... not bad.

Pretty impressive after all those years. Hope I get a similar performance.

 

[Apple fanboy]

I thought about getting a Tesla Model 3 back in 2018, and probably would have if it wasn't for the fact that I lived in a town home at the time and I was worried about issues charging it.

I have a lot of cars, 2 older fun cars, older truck for utilitarian purposes, and a newer family car for trips (wife's car), but in 2018, I was looking for an additional car, something newer, something that was going to be cheaper to commute with, and eventually, give to my kids to use.

In the summer of 2018, after testing multiple cars, I went with an ICE, 2019 Jetta S 1.4 Turbo with the manual trans. With rebates and negotiating, it was so cheap, it would have cost me more than twice as much to get the Model 3.

The Jetta was the base model, with only the Driver's Assist Package (safety package) installed, and I got it for $15,352.

The fuel economy in the Jetta with the manual trans is amazing. It averages over 36MPG (actual, not the on-board infotainment estimates), and my commutes are often over 50MPG according to the on-board calculations.

The best MPG for a tank was 42.3MPG.

Traffic, and a lot of red lights kill the fuel economy, and by that, it drops to the low 30s, which is still pretty amazing. If I can keep the car moving, with very little stops, the Jetta tends to stay above 45MPG.

The Jetta has a range of over 500 miles.

I have had it since Aug 2018, here is my fuel and service logs:
View attachment 2005886

In four years, I have paid about $20,000 for the Jetta for the initial purchase (cost, taxes, tags, etc.), fuel, and service.

So, value wise, it is hard for most EVs, especially Teslas, to compete with the Jetta I purchased. That said, the Jetta is so boring to drive, and I bet the Model 3 would have been a lot more fun.

I might still get an EV, but not anytime soon.

You’ve paid $214.65 for servicing over 4 years? That’s dirt cheap.

 

[Juicy Box]

You’ve paid $214.65 for servicing over 4 years? That’s dirt cheap.

I do my own maintenance on the Jetta, like I do on all my cars.

Other than to get parts and oil, I only had the Jetta into the dealership for the first oil change (it was free), recalls, warranty covered stuff, and to see if they could disable the stupid hill assist 'feature'. Spoiler alert... they can't.

 

[Apple fanboy]

I do my own maintenance on the Jetta, like I do on all my cars.

Other than to get parts and oil, I only had the Jetta into the dealership for the first oil change (it was free), recalls, warranty covered stuff, and to see if they could disable the stupid hill assist 'feature'. Spoiler alert... they can't.

That explains it. My Golf electric handbrake kicks in when you come to a complete stop. Is that what you mean by hillstart assist? I always found that very useful.

 

[Juicy Box]

Is that what you mean by hillstart assist?

Yeah, probably the same feature. I think it is called Hill Hold Assist in the manual. The purpose of it is to prevent the car from moving backwards while on a hill when attempting to drive from a stopped position.

In the Mk7 Jetta, the Hill Assist isn't held by the electronic parking brake, but hydraulically, by the ABS.

I always found that very useful.

I thought it would be too until I started using it.

Actually, it is probably better in other brands/models, and earlier year Jettas. If you do a search for "Jetta Hill Hold Assist Problems", almost all of the results are from 2019 and up.

The Mk7 Jetta's hill assist holds way too aggressively (literally cannot move), and for way too long (2.2 seconds). At best, this means that the clutch wears prematurely, and at worse, it could cause an accident from stalling when attempting to pull out in traffic.

My Jetta was the first car of mine to have hill hold feature, and owning a lot of manual trans cars over the years, I thought that this feature would be really nice to have, but I thought it would work differently than it does.

I hate it, and it is very dangerous, but I have adapted.

Using it for four years now, I have gotten use to it, and basically plan ahead when pulling off, especially when pulling out in an intersection.

 

[Apple fanboy]

Yeah, probably the same feature. I think it is called Hill Hold Assist in the manual. The purpose of it is to prevent the car from moving backwards while on a hill when attempting to drive from a stopped position.

In the Mk7 Jetta, the Hill Assist isn't held by the electronic parking brake, but hydraulically, by the ABS.


I thought it would be too until I started using it.

Actually, it is probably better in other brands/models, and earlier year Jettas. If you do a search for "Jetta Hill Hold Assist Problems", almost all of the results are from 2019 and up.

The Mk7 Jetta's hill assist holds way too aggressively (literally cannot move), and for way too long (2.2 seconds). At best, this means that the clutch wears prematurely, and at worse, it could cause an accident from stalling when attempting to pull out in traffic.

My Jetta was the first car of mine to have hill hold feature, and owning a lot of manual trans cars over the years, I thought that this feature would be really nice to have, but I thought it would work differently than it does.

I hate it, and it is very dangerous, but I have adapted.

Using it for four years now, I have gotten use to it, and basically plan ahead when pulling off, especially when pulling out in an intersection.

Mine is different then. It is very pleasant to use. My trouble is remembering when I’m in the Kia!

 

[AlaskaMoose]

We bought an old fashion telephone for that exact reason when we moved to the country.
I suppose if you had a long enough extension cord you could plug your phone into EV for those that have an internal plug!

My wife and I kept a landline for the same reason. We used cordless phones along cellphones, but also keep an older telephone for emergency use.

Yes, there are electronic switching units designed so that one can use an EV to power some of the home appliances. Well not all home appliances since not all EV's have high capacity batteries. Now, some of the Electric trucks and SUV's have very large batteries that can be used to power one's home for certain periods of time.

 

[AlaskaMoose]

The mine that elvisimprsntr posted wasn’t even a lithium mine, it was a gold mine in Australia. that photo was posted as a lithium mine by an oil company backed disinformation site, and gets copies all over the place.

An actual lithium mine looks a lot like that salt mine, it is mostly warm water pumped through salt deposits and then dried in open air holding pool.

Lithium is extracted by brines and hard rock mining. However, there is plenty of lithium available in salt water. The problem is that it takes a long time for the water to evaporate before the lithium is gathered. Some of the other metals are very expensive and heavy, while lithium is very lightweight. Once the lithium is separated from the salts and is in pure form, it becomes quite dangerous to handle because it reacts violently to water and other liquids, or to high temperatures.

 

[Apple fanboy]

Lithium is extracted by brines and hard rock mining. However, there is plenty of lithium available in salt water. The problem is that it takes a long time for the water to evaporate before the lithium is gathered. Some of the other metals are very expensive and heavy, while lithium is very lightweight. Once the lithium is separated from the salts and is in pure form, it becomes quite dangerous to handle because it reacts violently to water and other liquids, or to high temperatures.

I remember that experiment from school!

 

[AlaskaMoose]

I remember that experiment from school!

All is fine as long as you don't drop too much of it in the water? Magnesium is another metal that burns quite hot, but at least it does not react to water like lithium does.

 

[Tagbert]

All is fine as long as you don't drop too much of it in the water? Magnesium is another metal that burns quite hot, but at least it does not react to water like lithium does.

Sodium is bad news in water, too, Better watch that salt shaker!

 

[jtkiley]

We bought a Tesla Model Y about a year ago, and it's been great. Here are a few noteworthy things:

1. We (i.e. me) overestimated range anxiety as a practical issue. Shortly after getting it, we moved about 1000 miles (with movers, but we drove the family), and I had a whole spreadsheet of stuff on charging/stops. Never used it. Plot the end destination for the day, and charge when it says to. We charged extra so we could stop with climate on to feed our baby, though it's surprising how little energy climate uses on these.
2. Charging at home means no stops to charge outside of road trips. That's actually a bit of a game changer, because you're never stopping at a gas station (and my luck was when I was in a hurry), and you always leave home with a lot of range.
3. The Y in particular is a pretty versatile family car. The height is nice to get in and out of (especially working with car seats), the storage is ample, and the folding seats can help transport decently large stuff. That flexibility really drove the decision I mention at the end.
4. I've never been into fast/high hp cars, but the power and torque is incredible. I'm not sure I could go back.
5. It's very quiet on the road, and that's something you notice immediately.
6. One-pedal driving takes a little adjustment (not required, but it's worth adapting to), but it quickly seems like the right UI for a car.
7. The ordering process is actually pretty nice, but it's a bit of a pain in states where they can't sell directly (they have workarounds). That said, it's better than my experience test driving a Mach E (pretty nice vehicle): In a week, I got 14 calls from five different people at the dealership.

All in all, we'd totally do it again. In fact, we've been looking for another car for a few months (sold the second car before moving and didn't need to be in a hurry), and we very quickly settled on another electric. I test drove a Model 3 and looked at everything else under the sun, but we never found an option we liked better than another Y, so that's what we ordered.

 

[AlaskaMoose]

Sodium is bad news in water, too, Better watch that salt shaker!

Sure

 

[Tagbert]

Sure

Fun with chemistry!

 

[AlaskaMoose]

Fun with chemistry!

Very interesting! Hopefully the kid didn't crack the toiled bowl

 

[InuNacho]

Cars for me are like computers, they are tools that I burn into the ground. Maybe over time I'll extend their life with an attachment/upgrade or two but I'm in it for the long haul.
Just this week I bought a used Ford CMAX hybrid to hold me through until the EV market is what I feel completely matured. I opted for the regular CMAX instead of the PHEV model simply because I rent a large in-law in Northern California. Despite having a good relationship with the landlord, I didn't want to have her ask PGE to install a charger nor did I want to run a 50 foot extension cord through the side of the house to my car.

The nearest public EV charging station is 3 miles away and every time I see it, its full.

My current situation I believe is a huge issue for EV adoption throughout the region. Unless you live in a very modern mutli-family complex you need to have PGE or a contractor install an EV charger. Rent in an older complex, home or the increasingly popular in-laws like I do? SOL.

I would like to have an EV but then again there are only affordable 2 models on the market at the moment that fill my seats folded down tall hatchback requirements: the Bolt and Leaf Plus. Hopefully more EV hatchbacks enter the market, I don't need an offroading ESUV just something that can haul some merchandise in my family business and art supplies on the weekend.

 

[44267547]

Cars for me are like computers, they are tools that I burn into the ground. Maybe over time I'll extend their life with an attachment/upgrade or two but I'm in it for the long haul.
Just this week I bought a used Ford CMAX hybrid to hold me through until the EV market is what I feel completely matured. I opted for the regular CMAX instead of the PHEV model simply because I rent a large in-law in Northern California. Despite having a good relationship with the landlord, I didn't want to have her ask PGE to install a charger nor did I want to run a 50 foot extension cord through the side of the house to my car.

The nearest public EV charging station is 3 miles away and every time I see it, its full.

My current situation I believe is a huge issue for EV adoption throughout the region. Unless you live in a very modern mutli-family complex you need to have PGE or a contractor install an EV charger. Rent in an older complex, home or the increasingly popular in-laws like I do? SOL.

I would like to have an EV but then again there are only affordable 2 models on the market at the moment that fill my seats folded down tall hatchback requirements: the Bolt and Leaf Plus. Hopefully more EV hatchbacks enter the market, I don't need an offroading ESUV just something that can haul some merchandise in my family business and art supplies on the weekend.

The CMAX is an absolutely underrated hybrid. The problem with it was, only one thing, it was over-shadowed by the Prius with its popularity and overall longevity. But I can tell you where I live, the CMAX is a fleet vehicle for various transport companies, being it’s super reliable and obviously very fuel-efficient, and is known to have very few mechanical problems.

At the time, the CMAX was a solid choice, because it was actually cheaper than a Prius, but it didn’t hold its value as well as a Prius for obvious reasons. The other advantage to the CMAX, is it’s very similar to a Prius, where it doesn’t require hardly any maintenance, other than your basic ‘service intervals’.

Living in Detroit, I’d say the two vehicles I see the most with rideshare companies, is the Prius and CMAX, so that definitely says something from a reliability standpoint.