Who has or is planning to get an electric car / EV Talk

[InuNacho]

If you can charge at home, it's way more convenient than a gas car (i.e. you always leave with a "full tank" and can fill up at home). If you tried to rely on charging stations all the time, I think it would probably suck.

Aside: we'd have been very interested in an EV minivan (6-7 seats without Model X pricing), but they don't exist as a purchasable vehicle just yet. If that feature is what your friend really wanted/needed, that Pacifica was a great call that doesn't have a good EV alternative.

Unfortunately I rent in the burbs and my friend that got the Pacifica owns one of the older 70s era condos with the covered outdoor carport in the back. People in his complex charge their cars by running 20ft long cords from the back patio outlet to the cars. Not the most elegant solution but it works. He said the combination of HOA and PGE wouldn't let people install chargers in their carports.

A problem with our side of the city is that the cost of living is pretty high relative to the average income so we have multiple generations living under one roof. Street parking is pretty much required which doesn't work well with dragging a 50ft cord onto the sidewalk or the "half driveway half sidewalk" style of parking. I've seen it a few times walking around my area and it is less than elegant.

I think the minivan market will be a hard one to electrify.
Cars like the i3, Leaf, and Teslas built from the ground up to be electrical are great, the EV "conversions" that other manufacturers build aren't as good. A minivan that can haul a 8 people built from the ground up will be costly, probably more so than the F150 Lightning seeing as a new Sienna costs $35k.

 

[960design]

I don't plan on getting a Tesla. Musk isn't getting jack from me.

Fantastic! I appreciate your candor.

I tried to purchase a CT5-V (not the blackwing, the V6 version) from Cadillac (me = long time Cadillac fanboy = currently have 2016 CTS). I really tried, I contacted about 15 dealerships within 500 miles of my home. 25% markup on new car is ludicrous, maybe even plaid. I tried the Chevy dealership, Corvette 30% markup. Ford Lightning 45% markup.

Tesla was the only company that would sell a car at MSRP. They have my money and a new customer. I'll probably pickup a CyberTruck in 3 years and then a Roadster.

 

[960design]

A minivan that can haul a 8 people built from the ground up will be costly, probably more so than the F150 Lightning seeing as a new Sienna costs $35k.

Fortunately a Model Y can haul 7 people and still have a little bit of storage in the back and frunk.

Seven-Seater | Model Y | Tesla

Adjust the seats and rear storage compartments in Model Y configured with seven seats

www.tesla.com

 

[jtkiley]

I think the minivan market will be a hard one to electrify.
Cars like the i3, Leaf, and Teslas built from the ground up to be electrical are great, the EV "conversions" that other manufacturers build aren't as good. A minivan that can haul a 8 people built from the ground up will be costly, probably more so than the F150 Lightning seeing as a new Sienna costs $35k.

I think you're right that minivans are likely to get electrified as redesigns (see e.g., the VW ID Buzz). I think maybe the difficulty is in getting a vehicle with the capacity (the whole reason to buy a minivan) at the price range that they tend to be in (lower than three-row SUVs), even adjusted for the initial cost premium of an EV. Still, I think we'll see some good ones before too long.

Fortunately a Model Y can haul 7 people and still have a little bit of storage in the back and frunk.

Seven-Seater | Model Y | Tesla

Adjust the seats and rear storage compartments in Model Y configured with seven seats

www.tesla.com

That third row is very hard to get in and out of, so I don't think it hits the minivan use case for most people. That is, you want two adults, captain's chairs in the second row (car seats when kids are rear-facing; grandparents when kids are a little older), and a third row that's accessible and roomy enough for grandparents or front-facing car seats. When kids are in elementary school (and out of boosters), you could probably make a MY7 work.

 

[InuNacho]

Fortunately a Model Y can haul 7 people and still have a little bit of storage in the back and frunk.

Seven-Seater | Model Y | Tesla

Adjust the seats and rear storage compartments in Model Y configured with seven seats

www.tesla.com

The problem that Tesla has and will have for quite some time is the higher cost of entry and accessibility. $62k is alot for a big family car, particularly one without sliding doors.
My friend who bought the Pacifica takes care of his elderly parents and has 3 kids of his own. Kids sit in the back and the grandparents sit in the middle for easy access. There is enough room in the trunk for a couple of walkers too.

I think Teslas are as neat as the next person does, but the high cost of entry and design choices or oversights leave much to be desired. It can be argued that the Tesla is more of an investment than a regular car, but then again I would be worried about damaging it and I believe most people think the same way. Would you really want 3 kids potentially spilling juice and snacks in your $62k car?
Is the CyberTruck really going to be used on off road expeditions outside of the first swatch of Youtubers?

 

[960design]

Would you really want 3 kids potentially spilling juice and snacks in your $62k car?

I hear you. I do not let the dog in and the wife gets glares from accidental coffee spills on road trips in the caddy. I'll try to be a little less glarey in the tesla. Not sure about the dog yet.

Is the CyberTruck really going to be used on off road expeditions outside of the first swatch of Youtubers?

Heck yeah! Okay... probably not.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

The problem that Tesla has and will have for quite some time is the higher cost of entry and accessibility. $62k is alot for a big family car, particularly one without sliding doors.
My friend who bought the Pacifica takes care of his elderly parents and has 3 kids of his own. Kids sit in the back and the grandparents sit in the middle for easy access. There is enough room in the trunk for a couple of walkers too.

I think Teslas are as neat as the next person does, but the high cost of entry and design choices or oversights leave much to be desired. It can be argued that the Tesla is more of an investment than a regular car, but then again I would be worried about damaging it and I believe most people think the same way. Would you really want 3 kids potentially spilling juice and snacks in your $62k car?
Is the CyberTruck really going to be used on off road expeditions outside of the first swatch of Youtubers?

I cleaned out our car at the weekend and the amount of crisps and snack packets I pulled out of the back was insane. This is why a black leather interior is the only way when you have children lol. It always cracks me up when those without children inform you that they just wouldn’t allow kids to eat or drink in their cars. Yeah right, they have a lot to learn lol.

 

[nrvna76]

I have a MY 7 seat with a white interior and 3 kids in elementary school.

Had it 6 months. Doing great so far!

 

[SalisburySam]

I do not let the dog in and the wife gets glares from accidental coffee spills on road trips in the caddy.

I can’t imagine NOT including my dog (94lb German Shepherd) on our trips and errands. Our Model 3 is just another car…everything in it can be cleaned unless you decide to pour battery acid on the carpeting for some reason but I’ve chosen to not do that. Just taking it to the local full-service car wash eliminates all visible cruft and the nose prints on the rear side windows. We do use a protective back seat pet liner mostly for the dog’s comfort and safety, but Shiloh likes to occasionally ride shotgun so a different cleaning protocol then.

I’ll probably feel differently when I get that Bentley or the Bugatti I drool over, but for the Tesla and any other vehicle I’ve had (including 3 Caddies, 3 Corvettes, lots of others), the pooch accompanies. I enjoy him far more than my need to maintain a car ready for a Concours d’Elegance. And I do keep a clean car.

 

[dbf7]

We replaced a Subaru Outback with a Volkswagen ID.4 AWD last September and love it - the only problem is we only have one of them and have to fight over who drives it sometimes Fortunately, we're lucky enough to own a home and had a L2 charger installed in the garage which means never needing to think about "fuel" - just plug it in once a week when you get home and unplug the next morning. After the federal tax credit and state incentives it cost less than a new Subaru Outback similarly equipped (VW's "Statement" package = Subaru's "Limited"). And "filling it up" after a 150 mile drive costs $6 instead of $25... helping saving the planet is good for the wallet, in addition to making you feel good And yes, our local VW dealer is not marking them up still, they're just a long waiting list...

[Edit - forgot to mention road tripping] Oh and we did a couple road trips (250-300 mile one-way) and found it a delight on the highway; the TravelAssist steers and drives for you; you just rest your hand on the wheel, no need to actively move the wheel like the Ford or Tesla require. Charged a few times at Electrify America (that's free charging for the first three years from VW) and it wasn't quite as easy as just plugging in a Tesla - but it only took a few seconds to tap the Start Charging button in the app, which I could do without fumbling for my phone - the Electrify America app uses VW's wireless Apple CarPlay and lets you find chargers and start charging right from the car's 12" screen)

 

[TechRunner]

We replaced a Subaru Outback with a Volkswagen ID.4 AWD last September and love it - the only problem is we only have one of them and have to fight over who drives it sometimes Fortunately, we're lucky enough to own a home and had a L2 charger installed in the garage which means never needing to think about "fuel" - just plug it in once a week when you get home and unplug the next morning. After the federal tax credit and state incentives it cost less than a new Subaru Outback similarly equipped (VW's "Statement" package = Subaru's "Limited"). And "filling it up" after a 150 mile drive costs $6 instead of $25... helping saving the planet is good for the wallet, in addition to making you feel good And yes, our local VW dealer is not marking them up still, they're just a long waiting list...

[Edit - forgot to mention road tripping] Oh and we did a couple road trips (250-300 mile one-way) and found it a delight on the highway; the TravelAssist steers and drives for you; you just rest your hand on the wheel, no need to actively move the wheel like the Ford or Tesla require. Charged a few times at Electrify America (that's free charging for the first three years from VW) and it wasn't quite as easy as just plugging in a Tesla - but it only took a few seconds to tap the Start Charging button in the app, which I could do without fumbling for my phone - the Electrify America app uses VW's wireless Apple CarPlay and lets you find chargers and start charging right from the car's 12" screen)

We’re considering one of these, so I appreciate your insights. Is there anything you don’t like about the vehicle, or you thinkVW could improve?

 

[960design]

I can’t imagine NOT including my dog (94lb German Shepherd) on our trips and errands. Our Model 3 is just another car…everything in it can be cleaned unless you decide to pour battery acid on the carpeting for some reason but I’ve chosen to not do that. Just taking it to the local full-service car wash eliminates all visible cruft and the nose prints on the rear side windows. We do use a protective back seat pet liner mostly for the dog’s comfort and safety, but Shiloh like to occasionally ride shotgun so a different cleaning protocol then.

I’ll probably feel differently when I get that Bentley or the Bugatti I drool over, but for the Tesla and any other vehicle I’ve had (including 3 Caddies, 3 Corvettes, lots of others), the pooch accompanies. I enjoy him far more than my need to maintain a car ready for a Concours d’Elegance. And I do keep a clean car.

I hear you. We have a Mazda CX5 for road trips with the dog. It has the rear seat pet liner, but the dog puts his head on the headrest so he can snuggle with our arms as we drive. I will most likely cave allow ride alongs in the Tesla. It has dog mode for a reason, right?

 

[SalisburySam]

I hear you. We have a Mazda CX5 for road trips with the dog. It has the rear seat pet liner, but the dog puts his head on the headrest so he can snuggle with our arms as we drive. I will most likely cave allow ride alongs in the Tesla. It has dog mode for a reason, right?

Indeed...and Dog Mode actually works very well. In the summertime I do get people in parking lots who get concerned that I've left a dog in a hot car. Sometimes they notice the screen statement but more often than not, they don't. So I hang a sign on the driver's window saying basically the same thing. No broken windows to "save" the dog yet so I'm pleased about that. Also, I take the pooch with me into most places as he's well-behaved, kids love him, and he seems to thrive on the added attention. And if I'm going for a longer period like a meal or grocery shopping, I leave him at home, not in the car. I consider Dog Mode a short term (like 10 minutes or less) environment only.

By the way, Dog Mode defeats the security mode though not the cameras. It does so because if the alarm went off, the volume level is quite deafening and neither a dog nor person could endure that without hearing damage.

 

[44267547]

Finished the ceramic coating. Took me a period of actually about three weeks, just given I have so much else going on, driving other cars, summer plans, etc. With fuel prices just absolutely absurd and out of control, I advocate this car 100%, not in terms of just ‘fun driving’, but practicality.

Anyways, easily the best car I’ve ever owned. The only issue I found, is there is a synthetic-ish ‘new carpet’ odor in the car that doesn’t really go away, but no biggie. The steering yoke acclamation still takes time, especially when you put the car in reverse and for parking situations, otherwise it’s a ‘game changer’.

 

[chfilm]

I own the one and only Honda E and am suuuuuuper happy with it! It's so stylish and smooth and feels a bit like if Apple had designed a car! I like it so much that one day out of boredom I shot this little film with my iphone

Oh and I live right in the city with no personal charger, but it works fine with the public infrastructe, despite the short range of the vehicle.

 

[AJK13K]

Let me understand the question. Do I want to buy an electric car largely made in China or from Chinese components in a nation that is not energy independent. In a nation that has the Buy the natural gas or oil that powers off power plants. So I guess that answers my question if I’m gonna buy an electric car, hell no

 

[quagmire]

Let me understand the question. Do I want to buy an electric car largely made in China or from Chinese components in a nation that is not energy independent. In a nation that has the Buy the natural gas or oil that powers off power plants. So I guess that answers my question if I’m gonna buy an electric car, hell no

Guess you won't be buying any car then......

 

[960design]

Let me understand the question. Do I want to buy an electric car largely made in China or from Chinese components in a nation that is not energy independent. In a nation that has the Buy the natural gas or oil that powers off power plants. So I guess that answers my question if I’m gonna buy an electric car, hell no

So much to unpack here.

Blondes? Brunettes? its what makes the world go round and I appreciate your opinion; more brunettes for me.
Blondes are cheap to get, expensive to maintain and a bit 'slow'.

Which of the following made in America cars are you currently recommending: Ford Mustang, Jeep Cherokee, Chevy Corvette or Honda Ridgeline?
#1 and #3 made in America cars are EVs, and you already stated, "hell no" to those.

 

[960design]

Finished the ceramic coating. Took me a period of actually about three weeks, just given I have so much else going on, driving other cars, summer plans, etc.

Gorgeous car. I've been thinking about getting ceramic coating, but would definitely have to outsource for the skills. I can wash, very crappy wax, but do not trust myself with something like ceramic.

 

[44267547]

Gorgeous car. I've been thinking about getting ceramic coating, but would definitely have to outsource for the skills. I can wash, very crappy wax, but do not trust myself with something like ceramic.

Thanks!

As far as ceramic coating, it really just comes down to strategy and patience. From my experience, and as somebody that takes detailing really serious, it’s not that difficult, if you follow the proper steps and guidance, it really is just a side skill anyone can learn. I think just the majority of people who consider ceramic coating, don’t want to probably make the time or just have the time in general to do it, because it is a lengthy process.

Most cars would suffice with a thorough paint decontamination and wax/sealant, ceramic is really nice if you live in an area that uses salt on the roads, or extreme UV rays from the sun, or if you just do a lot of general driving, and you want to protect your paint from road tar, chips, etc.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

Ceramic spray can be a good alternative for those of us that don’t have the time or indoor garage space to do a proper ceramic coating too. I’ve used Turtle Wax’s Hybrid Solutions and so far the water repellency is pretty good. Needs to topped up every 3 months but takes about 15 mins to apply. I did 2 coats 24 hours apart. It gets a lot of positive reviews from the big detailing YouTubers too which is why I tried it.

 

[Pezimak]

I live in the U.K., we are years from having even a half decent charging infrastructure, plus it can cost a literal fortune to use fast chargers in some places from what I’ve read, councils apparently cashing in, and we severely lack the power station infrastructure for everyone to have electric cars, because we would have endless power cuts too then, due to decades of lack of planning and investment by government.
I do see more and more electric cars on the roads though, hopefully that will help spur things along. For now though for me it’s hybrid or petrol.

 

[Pezimak]

You can get some very small EV’s here from the likes of Nissan and Renault but even those are £20k+. The average car purchase in the UK is £12k. Your figure of $38k (£30k) is still high. I’ve never spent more than £25k on a car and I have a decent job. Who are those 30 grand cars aimed at or are you suggesting they would be more affordable secondhand?

I think the car industry as a whole including the EV sector are about to have a huge shock as spending is in decline at a worrying level and buying cars will be a luxury. People will hang into their cars even longer in the next decade I think.

That’s the crux, the price of an electric vehicle is prohibitively more expensive then the equivalent petrol car. But these days manufactures think everyone puts a deposit down, then uses PCP and then trades the car in for another new one in 3 years, if you look at BMW Audi and Mercedes etc, they all update their models on a 3 year cycle more or less in Europe for that reason. Because very few people will pay the balloon final payment of several grand. Effectively you lease a car these days If it’s new.
Second hand is of course easier to buy a car to own, but with electric vehicles you have to think about the battery life. A motor can be fixed, an engine fixed, you have to replace an entire battery I presume in a car?

 

[Apple fanboy]

That’s the crux, the price of an electric vehicle is prohibitively more expensive then the equivalent petrol car. But these days manufactures think everyone puts a deposit down, then uses PCP and then trades the car in for another new one in 3 years, if you look at BMW Audi and Mercedes etc, they all update their models on a 3 year cycle more or less in Europe for that reason. Because very few people will pay the balloon final payment of several grand. Effectively you lease a car these days If it’s new.
Second hand is of course easier to buy a car to own, but with electric vehicles you have to think about the battery life. A motor can be fixed, an engine fixed, you have to replace an entire battery I presume in a car?

They are expensive for sure. But you do need to factor in the savings in petrol prices as well. If you buy new and travel a lot of miles, that could be as much as 50% of your car payment.
But I agree the prices need to come down before the masses can switch. Obviously harder for people who need (not want!) a large car due to the size of their family or the need to tow etc, it will be a challenge.
But perhaps some people could switch to smaller more realistic sized cars.

 

[Pezimak]

They are expensive for sure. But you do need to factor in the savings in petrol prices as well. If you buy new and travel a lot of miles, that could be as much as 50% of your car payment.
But I agree the prices need to come down before the masses can switch. Obviously harder for people who need (not want!) a large car due to the size of their family or the need to tow etc, it will be a challenge.
But perhaps some people could switch to smaller more realistic sized cars.

Agree, your new BMW looks fantastic in that colour I have to say. You chose very well there. It's a technology that is in its infancy though.