Who has or is planning to get an electric car / EV Talk

[BigMcGuire]

It’s ok. You are asleep when 95% of your EV charging is done. Or in my case sat in the office working. You don’t even think about it. Couldn’t imagine having to go back to wasting time at petrol stations.

February this year. I would spend 30-45 mins of my sat/sun filling up 2 Civics at Costco every week. I do not miss filling up at gas stations. I also can’t imagine traveling in an EV without Tesla’s network.

To other posters - 3rd party charging here in CA is frustrating and slow. EvGo, ChargePoint, ElectrifyAmerica, SemaConnect and the other apps I can’t remember - not a great experience and usually fairly expensive with hidden parking fees. Not to mention a lot of the places are iced, not working, or full.

 

[icanhazmac]

Has anyone here been through a battery change on a Tesla? Or other EV?

Is there any truth to this recent news article?

https://www.newsweek.com/man-says-tesla-locked-him-out-until-pays-26-thousand-dollar-battery-1743016 Can the car really be rendered "dead"? Even a poor battery should hold a charge enough to unlock the doors?

I know batteries will be expensive when the time comes to buy a new one but is that number accurate? I would think there are a fair number of those early Model S cars that will be requiring this soon.

The way people here at MR treat results from Coconut Battery, if that number is anywhere accurate I would think that used EV market will change drastically in the next couple of years. Imagine finding a cosmetically perfect S from 2014 and thinking you got a great deal only to find that a year later the car won't even unlock the doors.

 

[SalisburySam]

…I have to wait at the vehicle and hold the petrol filler before then walking in and queue up to pay. And only then can got to the wc, grab a drink and food. Often have to park elsewhere first as well.

Understand, and that’s the way it used to be in the US as well. However, that’s rarely the case today. Nearly all pumps accept credit cards at the pump itself so no need to walk inside at all except for cash payments. With the exception of a couple of states, pump nozzles can be latched open and automatically stop when the tank is full. But yes, you do have to move your can and park elsewhere to go inside for biological breaks, food (such as it is?), and beverages.

I haven’t been to or inside a gas station since late 2017 so things may have gotten even easier today.

 

[quagmire]

Has anyone here been through a battery change on a Tesla? Or other EV?

Is there any truth to this recent news article?

https://www.newsweek.com/man-says-tesla-locked-him-out-until-pays-26-thousand-dollar-battery-1743016 Can the car really be rendered "dead"? Even a poor battery should hold a charge enough to unlock the doors?

I know batteries will be expensive when the time comes to buy a new one but is that number accurate? I would think there are a fair number of those early Model S cars that will be requiring this soon.

The way people here at MR treat results from Coconut Battery, if that number is anywhere accurate I would think that used EV market will change drastically in the next couple of years. Imagine finding a cosmetically perfect S from 2014 and thinking you got a great deal only to find that a year later the car won't even unlock the doors.

There is a backup mechanical release in terms of when the car loses all electrical power.

What likely happened is the HV battery had a major fault, the car isolated it from the system to prevent major problems and thus the 12 volt battery died as it could no longer be charged from the HV drive battery. The high volt drive battery is not the source of power for systems like door locks, computer, wipers, etc. It provides power at to high of a voltage for those systems to handle and the process to do so would be too complex. Hence why there is a typical lead acid battery in the car as well( though newer Tesla's now have a 15V Lithium Ion battery). The HV battery charges the low volt battery which powers the low power systems. With the low volt battery losing its source of power, it too eventually dies and thus no power to the car.

 

[BigMcGuire]

There is a backup mechanical release in terms of when the car loses all electrical power.

What likely happened is the HV battery had a major fault, the car isolated it from the system to prevent major problems and thus the 12 volt battery died as it could no longer be charged from the HV drive battery. The high volt drive battery is not the source of power for systems like door locks, computer, wipers, etc. It provides power at too much of a voltage for those systems to handle and the process to do so would be too complex. Hence why there is a typical lead acid battery in the car as well( though newer Tesla's now have a 15V Lithium Ion battery). The HV battery charges the low volt battery which powers the low power systems.

I figured I'd let more educated members post before I did. lol.

As a fairly new Tesla owner I have family, friends, etc who love to bag on Tesla. Of course it's "common knowledge" that I'll have to replace my Tesla battery at least 3-4 times before the car reaches 100k and they're horribly unreliable and break down every time you get in them... I only mention this because I encounter a lot of these types of people here even in California.

An old boss of mine had an early model 95D? that came with lifetime free supercharger charging. He drove that thing a lot, supercharged it a lot, and as far as I know it he still drives it today. He was trying to get me to buy it too now that he doesn't drive much (I don't either so I didn't take him up on the offer). But from what I know it's got way over 100k on it.

I'm no Tesla expert so I'd refer to the many others here who know way more than me but... I've got friends who have Teslas and including myself - we've been in the single digits % charge range without any problem. Is it hard on the battery? Yeah. We've put 10k+ on our Tesla Model 3 this year.

What if the battery runs out? From what I know the 12v battery can unlock the doors if the main battery is dead. https://luxurycarsa2z.com/how-do-you-open-a-tesla-with-a-dead-battery/ and again from what I know, Model Ss have a way of using your key in a secret area to unlock the doors.

All batteries dead, can’t unlock car.

Hi, I left my new model 3 (500 miles) at home, and only drove my model X around for the past few months. The batteries in my model 3 are all dead. I tried to get the frunk to open by connecting a 12v charger to the hidden wires behind the tow hook cover. I got a small clicking sound (I’m...

teslamotorsclub.com

The fact that there are dozens of threads similar to the above tells me that this man's battery needing to be replaced is a unique situation.

Yes, leaving your car sitting at 0% charge for long periods of time is recipe for disaster. An EV car is designed to sit plugged in when not in use.

My thoughts on the matter as a fairly new Tesla owner (Feb 2022 to now).

 

[quagmire]

I figured I'd let more educated members post before I did. lol.

As a fairly new Tesla owner I have family, friends, etc who love to bag on Tesla. Of course it's "common knowledge" that I'll have to replace my Tesla battery at least 3-4 times before the car reaches 100k and they're horribly unreliable and break down every time you get in them... I only mention this because I encounter a lot of these types of people here even in California.

My boss had an early model 95D? that came with lifetime free supercharger charging. He drove that thing a lot, supercharged it a lot, and as far as I know it he still drives it today. He was trying to get me to buy it too now that he doesn't drive much (I don't either so I didn't take him up on the offer). But from what I know it's got way over 100k on it.

I'm no Tesla expert so I'd refer to the many others here who know way more than me but... I've got friends who have Teslas and including myself - we've been in the single digits % charge range without any problem. Is it hard on the battery? Yeah. We've put 10k+ on our Tesla Model 3 this year.

What if the battery runs out? From what I know the 12v battery can unlock the doors if the main battery is dead. https://luxurycarsa2z.com/how-do-you-open-a-tesla-with-a-dead-battery/ and again from what I know, Model Ss have a way of using your key in a secret area to unlock the doors.

All batteries dead, can’t unlock car.

Hi, I left my new model 3 (500 miles) at home, and only drove my model X around for the past few months. The batteries in my model 3 are all dead. I tried to get the frunk to open by connecting a 12v charger to the hidden wires behind the tow hook cover. I got a small clicking sound (I’m...

teslamotorsclub.com

The fact that there are dozens of threads similar to the above tells me that this man's battery needing to be replaced is a unique situation.

Yes, leaving your car sitting at 0% charge for long periods of time is recipe for disaster. An EV car is designed to sit plugged in when not in use.

My thoughts on the matter as a fairly new Tesla owner (Feb 2022 to now).

I wouldn't touch any early Model S's given it was Tesla's first real car from the ground up. There have been known teething issues with them from drive motor failures to early HV battery pack death.

But it still highlights the big unknown with high mileage or older used EV's. It's one thing to buy a 1-3 year old EV( lets say coming off a lease) as mileage still be low, age is fine, and still plenty of time left on the powertrain warranty. Can still get a decent life out of that car. It's another to go out, desperate to find a Tesla or any EV because you find them so cool and want to own one badly. You then find a 2013 Tesla Model S that is "reasonably" priced and buy it. Mileage is relatively low at around 90,000 miles. The battery then dies shortly after...... Mileage was fine but the batteries age was getting up there.

While there are vehicles that have gone 200,000-300,000 miles on the original battery before failure, the data set is still relatively small given the small amount of EV's on the road from 2013 is small. The age effect on batteries are now just being seen. So for that high school kid desperate for a Tesla is possibly walking themselves into a huge unknown. While a different desperate high school kid goes out and finds an E46 3 series in good shape and besides some wear and tear items, the car just soldier on.

 

[icanhazmac]

There is a backup mechanical release in terms of when the car loses all electrical power.

Thanks for the info.

Of course it's "common knowledge" that I'll have to replace my Tesla battery at least 3-4 times before the car reaches 100k and they're horribly unreliable and break down every time you get in them

LOL, you forgot the '/s' to keep people without sarcasm detectors off your back!

Hope you know I wasn't trying to "bag" on Tesla I just wanted to know if there was any truth to the article and more importantly is that battery replacement cost anywhere near accurate. Never buy a used anything unless you plan for needing to replace the most expensive component. I travel heavily for work and charging networks and failures are the thing holding me back at this point.

 

[solq]

It’s ok. You are asleep when 95% of your EV charging is done. Or in my case sat in the office working. You don’t even think about it. Couldn’t imagine having to go back to wasting time at petrol stations.

For sure but that's for commuter/short distance stuff. EVs are very good at that. The problem is that sometimes I have to drive for much, much longer, and EVs are terrible for that.

 

[BigMcGuire]

Thanks for the info.



LOL, you forgot the '/s' to keep people without sarcasm detectors off your back!

Hope you know I wasn't trying to "bag" on Tesla I just wanted to know if there was any truth to the article and more importantly is that battery replacement cost anywhere near accurate. Never buy a used anything unless you plan for needing to replace the most expensive component. I travel heavily for work and charging networks and failures are the thing holding me back at this point.

Totally understood and that's how I took it (that you weren't bagging on Tesla). I appreciate your bringing up the topic. . And agreed, if I was heavy/long distance traveller I wouldn't go EV.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

Understand, and that’s the way it used to be in the US as well. However, that’s rarely the case today. Nearly all pumps accept credit cards at the pump itself so no need to walk inside at all except for cash payments. With the exception of a couple of states, pump nozzles can be latched open and automatically stop when the tank is full. But yes, you do have to move your can and park elsewhere to go inside for biological breaks, food (such as it is?), and beverages.

I haven’t been to or inside a gas station since late 2017 so things may have gotten even easier today.

Well when a full tank is currently something like £190 and the machines at the pump don't allow for more than £100 per go it is a bit of a bother. Besides we were talking about long distance travel. Don't you want to go inside, go to the WC, grab a drink, stretch your legs?

For sure but that's for commuter/short distance stuff. EVs are very good at that. The problem is that sometimes I have to drive for much, much longer, and EVs are terrible for that.

You may have found EVs terrible for that, although I didn't think you actually have an EV as didn't you say earlier that you have a hybrid 🤔My experience with a full EV and driving across 9 countries is very different. Really not terrible for it at all.

Main holiday this summer was from the UK via Belgium, Luxembourgh, Germany, Liechtenstein, Austria (Music Festival and Motor Racing), then down into Italy, south of France (relax at the Cote d'Azure) and all the way up back to the UK. No problems, no additional waits whatsoever.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

What's the range of your Polestar?

Longer than my bladder or thirst as I normally say. So more than enough.

The closest "universal" card I have is TCS (Swiss automobile club basically) and it's not actually universal. They centralise some providers but not all.

Give Plugsurfing a go. Works brilliantly, from street destination chargers, to even some unique unbranded pole at an airbnb, to hotels in Italy, to all main ultra-fast chargers.

I don't think I've ever spent 5 minutes fuelling and my big car has an 80l tank. I had 75l before. And you don't need to hold it, there's a little lever that locks it in "on" position. It snaps automatically when the tank is full.

Try 100L and a pump that keeps cutting out. Whether you actually need to hold it or stay with the vehicle until it snaps it immaterial and missing the point. It is dead time spent with the vehicle.

There's really no comparison between fuelling an ICE car and charging an EV. The latter takes far longer and the availability of charge points is far worse.

When doing a direct comparison with both empty next to each other and that being the only comparison, yes you are absolutely right. However that would be a very artificial comparison. Gosh the amount of time saved by not being at petrol stations in day-to-day use but having it top up whilst I'm asleep is a revelation. And then when on longer journeys there really isn't an actual difference. You need to stop for a break anyway. The way I see it I have at least five minutes longer to enjoy my break. And if I'm bursting for the WC, I just hook it up and run opposed to crossing my legs whilst filling up.

Imagine queuing behind someone filling up his car, which is something I've done hundreds of times.

Now imagine queuing behind someone starting to charge his car. I personally just drive away, I don't have the time. I've seen people charging for hours.

I've never seen anyone charge for hours at an ultra fast charger, the kind you'd use when on a long journey. I've only once had a short 'queue' and that was only because 3 out of the 6 weren't working....Sure people charge for hours/days on a destination charger, and that is absolutely fine. That is what they are for.

 

[Apple fanboy]

For sure but that's for commuter/short distance stuff. EVs are very good at that. The problem is that sometimes I have to drive for much, much longer, and EVs are terrible for that.

Depends what you mean by long distances and sometimes. I drive further than my car will take me on a single charge no more that 2-3 times a year. But if you regularly go a long way I think a Tesla with it’s charging network would handle most peoples usage.

 

[solq]

Longer than my bladder or thirst as I normally say. So more than enough.

Well you seemed to be rubbishing a 350 miles range, so I was curious. But when I drive long distance I never stop for 30 minutes or longer, and I would consider it a major nuisance. If you travel with young children, it’s far worse.

Try 100L and a pump that keeps cutting out. Whether you actually need to hold it or stay with the vehicle until it snaps it immaterial and missing the point. It is dead time spent with the vehicle.

I filled up my small car tonight (pure ICE) and timed it out of curiosity. 43.37 liters took exactly 50 seconds. It was a regular pump with 98 petrol. I have no idea what you’re talking about. Even with a hypothetical 100l fill-up, which I personally never had or heard of (do you drive trucks?), it wouldn’t take 5 minutes.

When doing a direct comparison with both empty next to each other and that being the only comparison, yes you are absolutely right. However that would be a very artificial comparison. Gosh the amount of time saved by not being at petrol stations in day-to-day use but having it top up whilst I'm asleep is a revelation.

I also top-up my hybrid while I sleep but I don’t think it’s such a time saver. Basically that time I spend every day plugging and unplugging easily adds up.

There’s no time saving with an EV. I would wager that a regular family car with an efficient ICE engine is far less demanding on your time compared to the regular fuss of charging an EV, and the ICE car has a killer range. I recently had a VW Passat 2.0 diesel rental with a range of over 1000km!

It’s true that EVs are fast and quiet and once bought cheaper per km, so there are plenty of advantages. But charging or long distance is their Achille’s heel. I don’t understand the need to twist yourself in a logical pretzel to ”prove” they’re better at everything. Nobody’s buying that, I know plenty of people with Teslas and even Taycans and they understand the advantages and drawbacks of this tech.

 

[AlaskaMoose]

Sure. And? Nobody disagrees that Alaska is remote. Doesn't change EVs in general, just may mean that in your specific use case its probably not the smartest thing. Likewise I wouldn't go for one if I drove from Paris to Dakar. But (interestingly?) if you wanted to go from St Petersburg to Vladivostok you'd be ok (all the way through Siberia in case anyone wondered).

The car technology is there and fine, but it depends on infrastructure, here in Europe its good enough most definitely to not require range anxiety nor charging anxiety. But there will always be places on earth where a Defender, Land-cruiser or G Wagon remains the best option....Where I wouldn't even venture in my full fat Range Rover...

Perhaps you din't understand what I was trying to say. I referred to Alaska, Canada, and the rest of the US as places where people drive long distances in comparison to the Nordic countries you referred to. It is more economically possible for small countries or states that are close to each other to create electrical infrastructures. Not so for the US.

 

[Apple fanboy]

Perhaps you din't understand what I was trying to say. I referred to Alaska, Canada, and the rest of the US as places where people drive long distances in comparison to the Nordic countries you referred to. It is more economically possible for small countries or states that are close to each other to create electrical infrastructures. Not so for the US.

Not for some parts of the US. Absolutely no difference putting the infrastructure in vast sways of the US than there is for the rest of the world. The edge cases are different, but for many towns and cities it’s perfectly possible.

 

[decafjava]

Not for some parts of the US. Absolutely no difference putting the infrastructure in vast sways of the US than there is for the rest of the world. The edge cases are different, but for many towns and cities it’s perfectly possible.

Absolutley true, we have the East Coast Boston-New York-Washington DC off the top of my head. In Canada the line from east of Toronto until Montreal is heavily urbanized. Perfect for both EV and high-speed rail.

 

[Daimos0]

Ford forces dealers, win for consumers

Ford sets new requirements for dealers to sell EVs, including mandatory fast chargers and non-negotiable pricing

Ford Motor Company has unveiled a new companywide strategy to its dealership network of nearly 3,000 locations. Ford dealers have...

www.google.com

 

[PatrickCocoa]

For sure but that's for commuter/short distance stuff. EVs are very good at that. The problem is that sometimes I have to drive for much, much longer, and EVs are terrible for that.

Just got back today (Tuesday, September 27, 2022, the day after you posted this) from a round trip from Austin, Texas, to Omaha, Nebraska and back (825 miles one way, so 1,650 miles round trip). I've driven that route probably five or six times in the six years I've owned a Tesla.

Also trips from Austin, Texas to Albuquerque, New Mexico (680 miles one way, so 1,320 round trip), and one trip from Austin, Texas, to San Jose, California (1,450 miles, so 2,900 miles round trip).

 

[AlaskaMoose]

Not for some parts of the US. Absolutely no difference putting the infrastructure in vast sways of the US than there is for the rest of the world. The edge cases are different, but for many towns and cities it’s perfectly possible.

Agree. In countries, states, and cities within states that are relatively close to each other it is more economical.

 

[Tagbert]

Agree. In countries, states, and cities within states that are relatively close to each other it is more economical.

Or in the many areas where charging networks are already built out. Of course there are still areas with low population density or off the main travel routes that don't have charging networks yet. That will come in time.

 

[solq]

Just got back today (Tuesday, September 27, 2022, the day after you posted this) from a round trip from Austin, Texas, to Omaha, Nebraska and back (825 miles one way, so 1,650 miles round trip). I've driven that route probably five or six times in the six years I've owned a Tesla.

Also trips from Austin, Texas to Albuquerque, New Mexico (680 miles one way, so 1,320 round trip), and one trip from Austin, Texas, to San Jose, California (1,450 miles, so 2,900 miles round trip).

How many stops and how long?

Did you try doing it with young children?

And what does that prove, that you can physically do it? That's hardly the contention. You can walk it if you really want.

If it takes you 30 minutes to charge, and that charge is to 80%, that's a terrible experience.

Some 10 years ago I drove from London to Vienna in one day (about 1500km). I left just before 7am, got to Vienna at my friends around 9:30pm. In the 3l diesel BMW I had at the time.

Can you do this today with your Tesla?

I was doing generally over 200km/h in Germany. How's your range at those speeds?

 

[diamond.g]

I was doing generally over 200km/h in Germany. How's your range at those speeds?

I don't think there is anywhere in the US where you can drive 120mph (legally).

 

[solq]

I don't think there is anywhere in the US where you can drive 120mph (legally).

I wouldn't dream of encouraging anyone to break the law 😂

 

[BigMcGuire]

Range drops noticeably faster when doing 80-90mph - which, in my defense, is needed to keep up with the flow of traffic on some CA freeways at certain times of the day. <cough>.

Last I drove long distance across the US, I remember seeing 70-80mph speed limits (if I can remember correctly). (California to MidWest). I just remember my Civic getting significantly worse MPG than I expected because of headwinds and going at that speed - especially up hills.

 

[Tagbert]

How many stops and how long?

Did you try doing it with young children?

And what does that prove, that you can physically do it? That's hardly the contention. You can walk it if you really want.

If it takes you 30 minutes to charge, and that charge is to 80%, that's a terrible experience.

Some 10 years ago I drove from London to Vienna in one day (about 1500km). I left just before 7am, got to Vienna at my friends around 9:30pm. In the 3l diesel BMW I had at the time.

Can you do this today with your Tesla?

I was doing generally over 200km/h in Germany. How's your range at those speeds?

That sounds like a terrible journey no matter the power source of your vehicle.