Who has or is planning to get an electric car / EV Talk

[quagmire]

There is a lot of opinion out there so I appreciate your info. I have mostly stayed away from the Tesla forums as I don't have the energy to interact with them LOL.

I've got a 2018 Tesla Model 3 LR AWD.

When we first got the car it was 289 I think. It dropped to 278 pretty quickly after we got it, and a month later settled into about 274-276. Been that way since late March. Obviously Tesla now makes it difficult to see your max charge, without actually max charging (which we almost never do). .

A 10-15 mile loss is in the range people have gotten back when recalibrating the BMS.

If you care about that enough, the procedure is roughly drain it down to 10-20%, let it sit for a few hours( usually around 4-5) with sentry mode, cabin heat protection, etc off( this allows the Tesla to sleep, thus opening the contactors). The BMS will then once the car is sleeping and after the time period will take a measurement of the power left in the battery. Then charge it up to 100% and once finished at 100%, again let it sit for a few hours. Which then the BMS will take another measurement of the power available when full. 1-3 times doing this seems to result in getting some estimated range back as the BMS has a better idea of the low end and high end of the battery.

Of course this is just what the BMS thinks is left, but your actual range doesn't change. This calibration is a peace of mind thing than anything. If the car is capable of 290 miles, it will go 290 miles even if the car thinks it is only capable of 270.

 

[diamond.g]

A 10-15 mile loss is in the range people have gotten back when recalibrating the BMS.

If you care about that enough, the procedure is roughly drain it down to 10-20%, let it sit for a few hours( usually around 4-5) with sentry mode, cabin heat protection, etc off( this allows the Tesla to sleep, thus opening the contactors). The BMS will then once the car is sleeping and after the time period will take a measurement of the power left in the battery. Then charge it up to 100% and once finished at 100%, again let it sit for a few hours. Which then the BMS will take another measurement of the power available when full. 1-3 times doing this seems to result in getting some estimated range back as the BMS has a better idea of the low end and high end of the battery.

Of course this is just what the BMS thinks is left, but your actual range doesn't change. This calibration is a peace of mind thing than anything. If the car is capable of 290 miles, it will go 290 miles even if the car thinks it is only capable of 270.

Yeah I've argued (on TMC) that Tesla should swap the 15 or 30 mile estimate for the number that is displayed next to the battery icon. Or just only show percentage.

Tesla is the only manufacturer that doesn't use a GoM as the predominant means to indicate how far you can go. Which, can be, very confusing to folks. Even more annoyingly it is a poor means to check for degradation because of basically what you said. I've seen it fluctuate a ton also based on what FW the car is running.

 

[Apple fanboy]

When I first got my EV I was EXTREMELY nervous about running out of battery. My wife can attest to this. I freaked out and made sure to charge way before we even had 100 miles left. lol. Soon, though, I adapted and lost all worry - at least with my EV, it would calculate when and where I needed to charge and would very clearly warn me if I was trying to go somewhere that would result in any hint of running out of power. This really helped my range anxiety. Also, I learned that driving speed limit or slower resulted in some noticeable range extensions, lol.

I always wondered about EMPs. My life is so reliant on computers - I'd be ruined if an EMP went off from that fact alone. lol. Reminds me of War of the Worlds - It's the solenoid! Haha. (I know just enough about cars to change my own oil, that's it).

Your EV needs oil changes? 😜

 

[BigMcGuire]

Your EV needs oil changes? 😜

HAH, queue the video of that driver who tried to fill up their Tesla at a gas station.

Just trying to help others see the only thing I know about cars is - I can change transmission fluid, air filters, and I changed my own oil - bout it. LOL. Well, my 2018 civics were too low to the ground for my fat beehind to get under them so ...

 

[AlaskaMoose]

Sure they run out of fuel at different moments in time. No argument there with that particular scenario. Now if in the real world human beings should do endurance races without stopping. They need to go to the bathroom, have a drink, stretch their legs etc. As I say; in my experience my bladder needs to stop before the EV. Typically a s small break every 2 hours or 200miles. During that short stop whilst I go to the WC, get a drink etc the car chargers up again with plenty of fuel for the next stop.

it is a theoretical issue by those without real experience, not an actual issue.

Oh please, what a lot of stereotypical nonsense. Why are you even hanging out in this thread unless to just share fake news?

Sure they run out of fuel at different moments in time. No argument there with that particular scenario. Now if in the real world human beings should do endurance races without stopping. They need to go to the bathroom, have a drink, stretch their legs etc. As I say; in my experience my bladder needs to stop before the EV. Typically a s small break every 2 hours or 200miles. During that short stop whilst I go to the WC, get a drink etc the car chargers up again with plenty of fuel for the next stop.

it is a theoretical issue by those without real experience, not an actual issue.

Oh please, what a lot of stereotypical nonsense. Why are you even hanging out in this thread unless to just share fake news?

I hang in this thread because I always enjoy the automobile new technologies, not necessarily to offend anyone. In the real world the person buying an automobile, regardless of type, is very interested in its drive range, and this has nothing to do with the person having to stop and take a brake every couple of hours. Common sense should tell you that if you drive your vehicle to work 100 miles each day you want a vehicle that has at least 100 drive mile range. Those are real world issues, and it doesn't matter if the automobile is electric or not.

 

[diamond.g]

I hang in this thread because I am always enjoy the automobile new technologies, not necessarily to offend anyone. In the real world the person buying an automobile, regardless of type, is very interested in its drive range, and this has nothing to do with the person having to stop and take a brake every couple of hours. Common sense should tell you that if you drive your vehicle to work 100 miles each day you want a vehicle that has at least 100 drive mile range. Those are real world issues, and it doesn't matter if the automobile is electric or not.

I don't think folks buy a vehicle for daily commute. At least not from the distance perspective. We hear about folks that have to do 1 cross country trip a year and need a car that can drive 600-700 miles a tank cause they drive non-stop.

 

[arlomedia]

I bought a Niro EV last fall. I was tempted to wait for the next generation of EV tech, like the Kia EV6 or Hyundai Ioniq 5, to come out, but I didn't want to go larger than the Niro (all the newer crossovers are at least 6" longer and I do a lot of parallel parking and navigating in tight spaces). It's been very nice; we charge it about once a week from a home Level 2 charger and that's enough for daily commuting and weekend trips to the beach or the mountains (in Portland, Oregon, I'm about 60 miles from either).

This past weekend my family took our first trip that required on-route charging, about 300 miles to southern Oregon. The Niro's published range is 240 miles, so we didn't need much extra. I used the PlugShare app to identify a few fast-charge stations around the middle of the trip. The first one we tried was open and started charging easily after tapping a credit card. We let it charge for a half-hour while having lunch next door, then continued to our destination. The town we stayed in had no fast chargers, but several Level 2 chargers, most free. On our last night in that town, I plugged it into a free charger at a park a few blocks from the hotel and let it run overnight. The return trip was similar to the trip there -- I picked a few fast charge options, the first one was available, and we charged for a half hour while eating dinner.

One thing I noticed during this process is that Level 2 chargers vastly outnumber DC fast chargers in this part of the world. There were enough fast chargers to make the trip without problems, but not without planning. Level 2 charging isn't really practical for traveling outside your home area, but if every Level 2 charger were a fast charger, it wouldn't even take any advanced planning.

Also, some fast chargers were located next to a restaurant or convenience store, but others were next to big-box stores or in office parks. On our trip out, we were able to walk next door and eat inside a restaurant while watching the charge level on my phone. On our trip back, we had to pick up carryout, then drive a half mile to the charging station and eat in the car. That was okay, but not as pleasant as having options right there.

I guess if I had a newer car with a faster charging system, I would feel less need to multitask while charging and the dining options wouldn't matter. On the other hand, if the trip were longer I'd have to charge for longer and that would be an issue again.

But overall, this was easier and more efficient than I expected, and I assume things will only get better as more charging capacity is added in more locations.

 

[AlaskaMoose]

I’m afraid the older I get, the more comfort breaks I need!

That is a normal occurrence with men. That wa

I don't think folks buy a vehicle for daily commute. At least not from the distance perspective. We hear about folks that have to do 1 cross country trip a year and need a car that can drive 600-700 miles a tank cause they drive non-stop.

All true. I am one of those long-distance drivers, mostly because Alaska is quite a large landmass, and the major cities are far from each other. For example, nearly 400 miles for Fairbanks to Anchorage. There are a couple of EV charging stations half-way from Anchorage to Fairbanks, so it should not be a problem if your EV has at least a 200-mile range. During the winter one would have to plan the 200-mile range with care since it gets very cold in the interior of Alaska. During the summer I usually drive around 600 miles (round trip) from Fairbanks to the Copper River where I fish for King and Coho salmon, or just 300 miles during my camping or photographing trips (wildlife, and so on). During the winter I don't travel very far, but I have to keep my truck's engine idling from 1 to 3 hours if the temperature is lower than 10 degrees F. when taking photos of the Auroras at night.

 

[Apple fanboy]

I bought a Niro EV last fall. I was tempted to wait for the next generation of EV tech, like the Kia EV6 or Hyundai Ioniq 5, to come out, but I didn't want to go larger than the Niro (all the newer crossovers are at least 6" longer and I do a lot of parallel parking and navigating in tight spaces). It's been very nice; we charge it about once a week from a home Level 2 charger and that's enough for daily commuting and weekend trips to the beach or the mountains (in Portland, Oregon, I'm about 60 miles from either).

This past weekend my family took our first trip that required on-route charging, about 300 miles to southern Oregon. The Niro's published range is 240 miles, so we didn't need much extra. I used the PlugShare app to identify a few fast-charge stations around the middle of the trip. The first one we tried was open and started charging easily after tapping a credit card. We let it charge for a half-hour while having lunch next door, then continued to our destination. The town we stayed in had no fast chargers, but several Level 2 chargers, most free. On our last night in that town, I plugged it into a free charger at a park a few blocks from the hotel and let it run overnight. The return trip was similar to the trip there -- I picked a few fast charge options, the first one was available, and we charged for a half hour while eating dinner.

One thing I noticed during this process is that Level 2 chargers vastly outnumber DC fast chargers in this part of the world. There were enough fast chargers to make the trip without problems, but not without planning. Level 2 charging isn't really practical for traveling outside your home area, but if every Level 2 charger were a fast charger, it wouldn't even take any advanced planning.

Also, some fast chargers were located next to a restaurant or convenience store, but others were next to big-box stores or in office parks. On our trip out, we were able to walk next door and eat inside a restaurant while watching the charge level on my phone. On our trip back, we had to pick up carryout, then drive a half mile to the charging station and eat in the car. That was okay, but not as pleasant as having options right there.

I guess if I had a newer car with a faster charging system, I would feel less need to multitask while charging and the dining options wouldn't matter. On the other hand, if the trip were longer I'd have to charge for longer and that would be an issue again.

But overall, this was easier and more efficient than I expected, and I assume things will only get better as more charging capacity is added in more locations.

This is typical use that non EV drivers don’t understand. You’ve had an EV for nearly a year and you have just made your first trip that required charging en route. That’s the same for most EV drivers. I think ICE drivers think we spend all our time stuck charging at service stations!
Here I use an app to find them when I need them (Zap-Map). It gives you a list of the amount of chargers, there type, what facilities there are there and when it was last used. It’s a great system. You can write a review and post pictures. But I’ve oBly been on one trip since May that I needed to use chargers for. The rest of the time it’s done at work or home.

 

[Tagbert]

Okay so you can carry extra gas. What do you carry if you run out of electricity? Better yet, people with *very* old cars could still be driving after an EMP. Cash for clunkers got many chips.

Nobody wants to think of pre electricity days but....

If there is an EMP then what to drive is no longer your main concern. Everything falls apart including gasoline vehicles and pumps. Better get a horse.

 

[Tagbert]

I have seen multiple towed.

My husband I think made a few calls himself. My point was it's easier to get a person a gas can. Poor people might need transportation and electricity run vehicles with blackouts is a bloodbath waiting. Sri Lanka.

EVs are much better about letting the driver know how much range is left. I’ve driven EVs for 10 years and know several other people with EVs. Your scenario is just a fantasy.

 

[Tagbert]

The estimated range does not account for driving style. It's simply how much power is available divided by the EPA rated consumption. So it losing 10-15 miles is either degradation or the BMS losing calibration over time.

On both EVs that I’ve owned (Leaf & Volt) the GOM (guess-o-meter) definitely uses recent discharge rates to estimate current range. What vehicle are you talking about?

 

[Tagbert]

This is typical use that non EV drivers don’t understand. You’ve had an EV for nearly a year and you have just made your first trip that required charging en route. That’s the same for most EV drivers. I think ICE drivers think we spend all our time stuck charging at service stations!
Here I use an app to find them when I need them (Zap-Map). It gives you a list of the amount of chargers, there type, what facilities there are there and when it was last used. It’s a great system. You can write a review and post pictures. But I’ve oBly been on one trip since May that I needed to use chargers for. The rest of the time it’s done at work or home.

Zap-App looks interesting. Too bad it is UK only. I usually use Plug-share when taking a trip.

 

[quagmire]

On both EVs that I’ve owned (Leaf & Volt) the GOM (guess-o-meter) definitely uses recent discharge rates to estimate current range. What vehicle are you talking about?

Tesla. Since that is the vehicle he drives.

 

[diamond.g]

Tesla. Since that is the vehicle he drives.

If I am not mistaken Tesla is the only manufacturer that doesn't use a guess-o-meter for the range indicator next to the battery. They used to offer 2 measurements (ideal and rated), but since the Model 3 was released they have trimmed it down to just the rated range (EPA in the US).

 

[SalisburySam]

If I am not mistaken Tesla is the only manufacturer that doesn't use a guess-o-meter for the range indicator next to the battery. They used to offer 2 measurements (ideal and rated), but since the Model 3 was released they have trimmed it down to just the rated range (EPA in the US).

Maybe I’m not understanding what you’re looking for in a GOM. My Nissan LEAF has one to be sure, but my Model 3 also has one. It is at the top of the display and can be set to either percent or miles. To me, that’s exactly the equivalent of the LEAF’s GOM. You also have a graph available for more details showing trip consumption and estimated arrival state of charge. Lastly, if you are using the in-car navigation, it displays and continuously updates distance to destination as well as expected state of charge. What am I missing?

 

[quagmire]

Maybe I’m not understanding what you’re looking for in a GOM. My Nissan LEAF has one to be sure, but my Model 3 also has one. It is at the top of the display and can be set to either percent or miles. To me, that’s exactly the equivalent of the LEAF’s GOM. You also have a graph available for more details showing trip consumption and estimated arrival state of charge. Lastly, if you are using the in-car navigation, it displays and continuously updates distance to destination as well as expected state of charge. What am I missing?

I would like a range displayed based on past driving habits. If my average consumption is 280 wh/mi, I want a range estimate based off that.

Tesla's GOM is based on the EPA's 235 wh/mi rating. So at full and a new battery with a Model 3 LR, it will display 358 miles remaining even if you have a lead foot and consume 280 wh/mi. It's not anywhere close to being accurate based off how you drive the car. The energy consumption app does, but that is based on only the past 10/30 miles. The GOM on the top of the display should be like that.

The ICE equivalent would be if Ford had your estimated range remaining be based off the EPA's combined rating. So lets say a car has a 25 MPG combined EPA rating, the estimated range remaining is based off that, despite the MPG menu says you're averaging 20 MPG.

 

[diamond.g]

Maybe I’m not understanding what you’re looking for in a GOM. My Nissan LEAF has one to be sure, but my Model 3 also has one. It is at the top of the display and can be set to either percent or miles. To me, that’s exactly the equivalent of the LEAF’s GOM. You also have a graph available for more details showing trip consumption and estimated arrival state of charge. Lastly, if you are using the in-car navigation, it displays and continuously updates distance to destination as well as expected state of charge. What am I missing?

as @quagmire has stated Tesla doesn't have a GoM because it doesn't change based on driving habits. Which is why folks have started using it as a means to track battery degradation (which it isn't actually good at that either).

The trip screen does though, so I have said Tesla should just show that number next to the battery while driving.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

I hang in this thread because I always enjoy the automobile new technologies, not necessarily to offend anyone. In the real world the person buying an automobile, regardless of type, is very interested in its drive range, and this has nothing to do with the person having to stop and take a brake every couple of hours. Common sense should tell you that if you drive your vehicle to work 100 miles each day you want a vehicle that has at least 100 drive mile range. Those are real world issues, and it doesn't matter if the automobile is electric or not.

As good as any vehicle on the market can do 100 miles each day. It is a none issue. This has been mentioned so many times. And even better, charge every night at home so you'll leave very day on your 100 mile trip with a full 'tank'....

That is a normal occurrence with men. That wa

All true. I am one of those long-distance drivers, mostly because Alaska is quite a large landmass, and the major cities are far from each other. For example, nearly 400 miles for Fairbanks to Anchorage. There are a couple of EV charging stations half-way from Anchorage to Fairbanks, so it should not be a problem if your EV has at least a 200-mile range. During the winter one would have to plan the 200-mile range with care since it gets very cold in the interior of Alaska. During the summer I usually drive around 600 miles (round trip) from Fairbanks to the Copper River where I fish for King and Coho salmon, or just 300 miles during my camping or photographing trips (wildlife, and so on). During the winter I don't travel very far, but I have to keep my truck's engine idling from 1 to 3 hours if the temperature is lower than 10 degrees F. when taking photos of the Auroras at night.

To be fair your are in a bit more extreme part of the world, not really comparable for most people. I just wouldn't yet in such areas. Although if charging stations are deemed reliable, and are of the ultrafast nature then 200 miles in ice cold conditions is also not an issue for most vehicles on the market. Our Polestar 2 does that easily. Not travelling far and leaving the heating on is no problem; most EV are way more efficient at that than ICE vehicles. No issue at all.

As I mentioned before I done a 4K Km trip across Europe this summer, not a problem. But charging infrastructure is good and not like its Alaska. But if other Nordic countries can build the infrastructure then why not the greatest country on earth

This is typical use that non EV drivers don’t understand. You’ve had an EV for nearly a year and you have just made your first trip that required charging en route. That’s the same for most EV drivers. I think ICE drivers think we spend all our time stuck charging at service stations!
Here I use an app to find them when I need them (Zap-Map). It gives you a list of the amount of chargers, there type, what facilities there are there and when it was last used. It’s a great system. You can write a review and post pictures. But I’ve oBly been on one trip since May that I needed to use chargers for. The rest of the time it’s done at work or home.

Exactly, we rarely publicly have to charge. Every morning we have a full 'tank'. In our Polestar the Google Android Automotive System works very well. I never use another app to find chargers. Either when planning the route the car knows I need to top up and proposes charging areas. Or along the route when I feel I need a break I just tap the button to find me a charging stop. Its so easy.

 

[AlaskaMoose]

As good as any vehicle on the market can do 100 miles each day. It is a none issue. This has been mentioned so many times. And even better, charge every night at home so you'll leave very day on your 100 mile trip with a full 'tank'....

To be fair your are in a bit more extreme part of the world, not really comparable for most people. I just wouldn't yet in such areas. Although if charging stations are deemed reliable, and are of the ultrafast nature then 200 miles in ice cold conditions is also not an issue for most vehicles on the market. Our Polestar 2 does that easily. Not travelling far and leaving the heating on is no problem; most EV are way more efficient at that than ICE vehicles. No issue at all.

As I mentioned before I done a 4K Km trip across Europe this summer, not a problem. But charging infrastructure is good and not like its Alaska. But if other Nordic countries can build the infrastructure then why not the greatest country on earth

Exactly, we rarely publicly have to charge. Every morning we have a full 'tank'. In our Polestar the Google Android Automotive System works very well. I never use another app to find chargers. Either when planning the route the car knows I need to top up and proposes charging areas. Or along the route when I feel I need a break I just tap the button to find me a charging stop. Its so easy.

It is probably cheaper for the Nordic countries to create such a structure, but not so for the US. If you add the Nordic countries that have achieved it, you will notice that there aren't great travel distances between them. Also, Norway has a great number of "moving water" (rivers and such) that are used to produce plenty of electricity.

How Norway became Europe’s biggest power exporter

In 2020, Norway rose above France to become Europe’s biggest power exporter. What changed, and is this an anomaly or a trend?

www.power-technology.com

Almost all of Norway’s domestic generation comes from hydroelectric power. In 2020, the country had more rainfall than average and eventually the country’s reservoirs reached their highest point since 2015.

Alaska is very large compared to the rest of the US states, and probably larger than some of the Nordic countries (Norway is perhaps 0.19 as large as Alaska.

MapFight - Norway vs Alaska (US) size comparison

mapfight.xyz

It makes no economic sense to have power grids through Canada to connect Alaska to the rest of the US. Northern Canada and Alaska have vast regions of permafrost that makes it quite difficult for road maintenance, and also to keep electric poles upright. It is also very expensive for Canada to power the Canadian Yukon and other nearly unpopulated Northern Canadian regions.

By the way, a great number of European drivers travel through Alaska each summer. Some travel on motorbikes, while others in recreational vehicles. Most land in Halifax, CA and travel through Canada to spend time in Alaska. Some others travel from WA to Haines, Alaska via a ferry, and then drive North to Fairbanks, or Anchorage, etc.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

It is probably cheaper for the Nordic countries to create such a structure, but not so for the US. If you add the Nordic countries that have achieved it, you will notice that there aren't great travel distances between them. Also, Norway has a great number of "moving water" (rivers and such) that are used to produce plenty of electricity.

How Norway became Europe’s biggest power exporter

In 2020, Norway rose above France to become Europe’s biggest power exporter. What changed, and is this an anomaly or a trend?

www.power-technology.com

Alaska is very large compared to the rest of the US states, and probably larger than some of the Nordic countries (Norway is perhaps 0.19 as large as Alaska.

MapFight - Norway vs Alaska (US) size comparison

mapfight.xyz

It makes no economic sense to have power grids through Canada to connect Alaska to the rest of the US. Northern Canada and Alaska have vast regions of permafrost that makes it quite difficult for road maintenance, and also to keep electric poles upright. It is also very expensive for Canada to power the Canadian Yukon and other nearly unpopulated Northern Canadian regions.

By the way, a great number of European drivers travel through Alaska each summer. Some travel on motorbikes, while others in recreational vehicles. Most land in Halifax, CA and travel through Canada to spend time in Alaska. Some others travel from WA to Haines, Alaska via a ferry, and then drive North to Fairbanks, or Anchorage, etc.

Sure. And? Nobody disagrees that Alaska is remote. Doesn't change EVs in general, just may mean that in your specific use case its probably not the smartest thing. Likewise I wouldn't go for one if I drove from Paris to Dakar. But (interestingly?) if you wanted to go from St Petersburg to Vladivostok you'd be ok (all the way through Siberia in case anyone wondered).

The car technology is there and fine, but it depends on infrastructure, here in Europe its good enough most definitely to not require range anxiety nor charging anxiety. But there will always be places on earth where a Defender, Land-cruiser or G Wagon remains the best option....Where I wouldn't even venture in my full fat Range Rover...

 

[solq]

Sure. And? Nobody disagrees that Alaska is remote. Doesn't change EVs in general, just may mean that in your specific use case its probably not the smartest thing. Likewise I wouldn't go for one if I drove from Paris to Dakar. But (interestingly?) if you wanted to go from St Petersburg to Vladivostok you'd be ok (all the way through Siberia in case anyone wondered).

The car technology is there and fine, but it depends on infrastructure, here in Europe its good enough most definitely to not require range anxiety nor charging anxiety. But there will always be places on earth where a Defender, Land-cruiser or G Wagon remains the best option....Where I wouldn't even venture in my full fat Range Rover...

The EV tech being there and fine is a matter of opinion. Personally, until a regular family car gets at least 500km of reliable range and it can charge from 0 to 100% in no more than 5 minutes I would say it’s not there yet. Neither of those things are extraordinary in any way for ICE cars.

Long distance EV travel is just not a pleasant, hassle-free experience but something that needs careful management and overly long breaks (in my opinion).

As for infrastructure in Europe, I don’t think it’s there. I’m specifically referring to Switzerland and Italy, but if you go East it gets significantly worse.

We bought a plug-in hybrid a month ago. It’s astonishing how fragmented the charging infrastructure it. So far we’ve accumulated 4 charging cards and about 5 apps. I need to carry an extra phone because some apps are geo-locked. We often don’t find charging when we go somewhere (I’d say even odds to find vs not) because charging points are missing, not working or too few and in use.

The propulsion in itself is fine, I like it, and I think it suits a hybrid very well. I just wouldn’t jump to fully electric.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

The EV tech being there and fine is a matter of opinion. Personally, until a regular family car gets at least 500km of reliable range and it can charge from 0 to 100% in no more than 5 minutes I would say it’s not there yet. Neither of those things are extraordinary in any way for ICE cars.

Long distance EV travel is just not a pleasant, hassle-free experience but something that needs careful management and overly long breaks (in my opinion).

As for infrastructure in Europe, I don’t think it’s there. I’m specifically referring to Switzerland and Italy, but if you go East it gets significantly worse.

We bought a plug-in hybrid a month ago. It’s astonishing how fragmented the charging infrastructure it. So far we’ve accumulated 4 charging cards and about 5 apps. I need to carry an extra phone because some apps are geo-locked. We often don’t find charging when we go somewhere (I’d say even odds to find vs not) because charging points are missing, not working or too few and in use.

The propulsion in itself is fine, I like it, and I think it suits a hybrid very well. I just wouldn’t jump to fully electric.

My experience with a full EV is very different. This summer alone I’ve travelled through 9 European countries with a single charging card; Plugsurfing as provided by Polestar. No need for any apps either. Not once did we feel like we needed to make an unnecessary stop or actively had to plan it. Just hit the button to find a charger when we want a break and stop at the location we like.

LOL My ice car can’t do more than 350 miles and also take longer than five minutes to fill up. And I have to wait at the vehicle and hold the petrol filler before then walking in and queue up to pay. And only then can got to the wc, grab a drink and food. Often have to park elsewhere first as well.

 

[solq]

My experience with a full EV is very different. This summer alone I’ve travelled through 9 European countries with a single charging card; Plugsurfing as provided by Polestar. No need for any apps either. Not once did we feel like we needed to make an unnecessary stop or actively had to plan it. Just hit the button to find a charger when we want a break and stop at the location we like.

LOL My ice car can’t do more than 350 miles and also take longer than five minutes to fill up. And I have to wait at the vehicle and hold the petrol filler before then walking in and queue up to pay. And only then can got to the wc, grab a drink and food. Often have to park elsewhere first as well.

What's the range of your Polestar?

The closest "universal" card I have is TCS (Swiss automobile club basically) and it's not actually universal. They centralise some providers but not all.

I don't think I've ever spent 5 minutes fuelling and my big car has an 80l tank. I had 75l before. And you don't need to hold it, there's a little lever that locks it in "on" position. It snaps automatically when the tank is full.

There's really no comparison between fuelling an ICE car and charging an EV. The latter takes far longer and the availability of charge points is far worse.

Imagine queuing behind someone filling up his car, which is something I've done hundreds of times.

Now imagine queuing behind someone starting to charge his car. I personally just drive away, I don't have the time. I've seen people charging for hours.

 

[Apple fanboy]

What's the range of your Polestar?

The closest "universal" card I have is TCS (Swiss automobile club basically) and it's not actually universal. They centralise some providers but not all.

I don't think I've ever spent 5 minutes fuelling and my big car has an 80l tank. I had 75l before. And you don't need to hold it, there's a little lever that locks it in "on" position. It snaps automatically when the tank is full.

There's really no comparison between fuelling an ICE car and charging an EV. The latter takes far longer and the availability of charge points is far worse.

Imagine queuing behind someone filling up his car, which is something I've done hundreds of times.

Now imagine queuing behind someone starting to charge his car. I personally just drive away, I don't have the time. I've seen people charging for hours.

It’s ok. You are asleep when 95% of your EV charging is done. Or in my case sat in the office working. You don’t even think about it. Couldn’t imagine having to go back to wasting time at petrol stations.