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Who has or is planning to get an electric car / EV Talk
- Thread starter PracticalMac
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I’m not hostile to the idea of EVs at all, we went and looked at a Prius when they first came out, although it was a hybrid, but I do want to have a clear pictur, and the reason I mentioned not a troll post, is because of the high likelihood that anyone who does not appear to be onboard with this technology could easily be accused of trolling. If EV batteries are recycled as a matter of routine, than that is a great necessary part of the big picture. I’ve heard grumblings that the manufacture of these batteries are not environmentally friendly, so a large, neutral view of the total picture is required.
I’m not saying it’s all green, but those views are often peddled from the oil companies. That’s the trouble with what we read. It’s so often incorrect and biased one way or the other.
I think they have moved on since the Prius came out and I’d encourage you to go try a few out for yourself. Lots of fun to drive. I really notice how noisy ICE cars are these days when I get in one.
Battery recycling is still in its infancy right now. There are so few batteries that would be ready to be recycled that it is barely feasible to establish a business on that. Battery packs are lasting for much longer than some people have expected with 100K-200K miles not uncommon. Some are being repurposed as house batteries and other uses. There are companies, Redwood is one example, that are working on processes to recycle the batteries and will do so once there are enough to be worthwhile.
There are two classes of pollutants that we usually worry about in terms of batteries. One is CO2 and the other is toxic byproducts of extraction and production. The CO2 one is not a major concern. It does take more CO2 to product an EV, mostly due to the battery, but most studies show that that excess is offset by the efficiency of EVs within about 12K miles of use. The toxic byproducts are more difficult to measure partially because the materials (Lithium, nickel, cobalt and others) are sourced from all over the world. Lithium sources are in Australia, China, Bolivia, Canada, and others. It is a common mineral and can often be extracted by hot water in salt deposits. It is not especially toxic compared to many other elements. (There is a photo that gets passed around a lot of an open pit mine claimed to be a toxic lithium mine. That photo is actually a gold mine in Australia.) Nickel and Cobalt are more toxic but they are also used in a lot of other manfacutring, including regular automobiles, not just EV batteries.
There is a lot of effort to change battery chemistries to reduce or eliminate the need for some of these elements like nickel and cobalt. The LPF batteries that are used in a lot of vehicles use no cobalt. There is also research into lithium alternatives like sodium, aluminum-sulphur, and others. Batteries are evolving pretty rapidly and except for the past year, prices have been coming down quickly.
While there are environmental concerns about the production of batteries for EVs, those concerns are not unique to EVs. ICEVs use many of the same materials that need to be mined and refined. Oil extraction and processing requires large amounts of water and electricity and releases large amounts of methane, crude oil, and other byproducts.
EVs being extremely efficient can offset their initial energy and CO2 costs and batteries are being developed specifically to reduce any toxic byproducts.
Not against the premise in the slightest. Makes sense if the car is environmentally managed, recycled, reused & sustainable. That said I love big bikes, the bark and the roar of the gas engine, as you press hard. It is what they say as you pass 150 MPH the room goes quiet. As you pass 180 MPH, slow motion...
Q-6
Q-6
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If you enjoy speed, electric wind every time. That instant acceleration and torque is so much fun.
Now the Ford F150 Lightning has come, such stale old jokes have entered the realm of the lunatic fringe.
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In reality the largest hurdle for EV's is the battery. At the present time there isn't a way to produce "green" batteries because such technology doesn't exist. Batteries aren't environmentally friendly at all, because they take a lot of resources and time to produce, cannot be made both more powerful and lighter (both at the same time), and recycling 100% is extremely difficult and expensive. Even transporting EV batteries by water (ships and air) is quite difficult because of the likelihood of onboard fires (read the news about fires and crews having to abandon ships). I am not against EV's, just pointing out that EV's aren't as environmentally safe as usually told.
Absolutely. The good news is the alternative, petrol (or gasoline as you guys call it) is much safer. Never catches fire at all! I can’t remember an oil tanker or oil rig ever catching fire.
Of course we know drilling for oil isn’t environmentally friendly and burning fossil fuels is also literally causing global warming. ICE cars are also heavy (especially the large SUV’s and trucks that are more popular now).
I’m sorry ybut you keep saying you’re not against EV’s, but everything you post is anti EV.
We get it. EV’s are not perfect. But keep using petrol or diesel cars is not the answer is it. Fortunately in my country at least they will no longer have new ICE cars in 2030. Looking forward to the improved air quality. Hopefully other countries will do the same. Then perhaps we can not see sea levels rise and millions of people displaced at quite an alarming rate.
Originally I wanted to go for the Toyota Mirai (Hydrogan hybrid), but at this moment there exist only 4 (yes, four) hydrogen tankstations in Belgium in combination with the price of €80.350 and the fact that i could still write off 50% of a gasoline car + fuel for the next 5 years made me go with a 2022 Mazda MX-5 (Miata) Skycruise Sport 2.0 RF.
Maybe in 5 years when I have to buy a zero emission car there will be more hydrogen tankstations in Europe:
At this moment:
----------------------
Belgium = 4 + 4 under construction
The Netherlands = 10 + 13 under construction
United Kingdom = 3
France = 3
Germany = 62
Austria = 2
Denmark = 5
Norway = 2
Sweden = 3
Rest of Europe = 0
So not a real alternative to 100% EV's at the moment.
Maybe in 5 years when I have to buy a zero emission car there will be more hydrogen tankstations in Europe:
At this moment:
----------------------
Belgium = 4 + 4 under construction
The Netherlands = 10 + 13 under construction
United Kingdom = 3
France = 3
Germany = 62
Austria = 2
Denmark = 5
Norway = 2
Sweden = 3
Rest of Europe = 0
So not a real alternative to 100% EV's at the moment.
Alternative methods for lithium harvesting are fairly expensive, and there are not enough batteries for recycling to close the loop.This is not renewable.
Are they all lithium mines? Pretty sure they are not.This is not renewable.
Better stick to oil to be sure though. Then we know we are safe (well apart from the Maldives of course, but if they are all underwater I’m sure that’s fine)
What about these guys?
And if batteries are so bad, why do you keep buying iPhones, iPads and the like?
It’s like we have two sets of standards.
What I'm saying is we should be trying to do better than this. Truly renewable rather than just another Earth destructive force.
I see hypocrisy because I know where electricity comes from. My biological father is an electrician. I just don't like that California is being told to turn up AC and not charge their cars. What could go wrong with premature decisions that are based on reliance with China who is using coal?
I'm not trying to fight people but I'm not pro oil. I'm pro not starving people and crashing economies over a source that has its own destruction. Musk is part of the problem too. I give zero exemption to hypocrisy.
This is Why Electric Cars will NOT be the Future!
It's easy to get the sense that electric vehicles are clearly the way of the future just by walking in the town. As a result of Tesla's rapid share price rise, Elon Musk momentarily became
www.engineerine.com
Electric cars are not the future: they cause tremendous pollution. You will never believe this innovation in the automotive world.
Electric cars are not the future: they cause tremendous pollution. You will never believe this innovation in the automotive world. Share I have to tell you that I think like Akio Toyoda, Toyota's number one. He explained that we should expect a major flop in the electric car industry. I hope you...
sybershel.com
So I’ve never had to queue more than 15 minutes for a charging station. Here in the UK they are everywhere. But of course I don’t need to use them very often.What I'm saying is we should be trying to do better than this. Truly renewable rather than just another Earth destructive force.
I see hypocrisy because I know where electricity comes from. My biological father is an electrician. I just don't like that California is being told to turn up AC and not charge their cars. What could go wrong with premature decisions that are based on reliance with China who is using coal?
I'm not trying to fight people but I'm not pro oil. I'm pro not starving people and crashing economies over a source that has its own destruction. Musk is part of the problem too. I give zero exemption to hypocrisy.
This is Why Electric Cars will NOT be the Future!
It's easy to get the sense that electric vehicles are clearly the way of the future just by walking in the town. As a result of Tesla's rapid share price rise, Elon Musk momentarily became
Electric cars are not the future: they cause tremendous pollution. You will never believe this innovation in the automotive world.
Electric cars are not the future: they cause tremendous pollution. You will never believe this innovation in the automotive world. Share I have to tell you that I think like Akio Toyoda, Toyota's number one. He explained that we should expect a major flop in the electric car industry. I hope you...
Most people charge at home, at night when electricity use is at a minimum.
As I’ve said a number of times, EV’s are not perfect. But they are better than the alternatives available as of today.
Electricity needs to be produced using wind, wave and solar go reduce our carbon emissions. Some countries are doing better at this than others.
But we all need to do our bit. That’s why I chose a lighter EV made from recycled materials. The battery will be repurposed or recycled when it comes to the end of its life (many years from now).
What are you going to do when they stop selling ICE vehicles?
I know that at least one of those supposed lithium mines is actually a gold mine in Australia. Some disinformation sources have been posting that to scare people into thinking that lithium production is more toxic than it really is. Very dishonest. I would not be surprised if the same is not true of those other photos of mines that you posted claiming they are lithium mines. There are too many people willing to lie in order to push an agenda. the oil industries, in particular, has been on the offensive with this kind of disinformation.This is not renewable.
Hanking to pour first gold from Marvel Loch
Hong Kong-listed Hanking Gold Mining is preparing to pour its first gold dore bar from its Southern Cross operations since it swooped on St Barbara's mothballed assets in January 2013.
thewest.com.au
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From my perspective it is a step in the right direction. Is it perfect? No. We as a species are pretty disruptive on our environment. But here in CA, a good chunk of our power comes from solar during the sunlight hours. I try to charge my EV during those times whenever possible, even if it is a bit more expensive than after 10pm at night. I am paid by my power company to avoid as much power usage as possible 4-9pm.
My local power utility allows me to select a 100% green source option for my house's power - it's a little bit more expensive but supposedly all the power that my house consumes will be 100% green. (Socal Edison). https://www.sce.com/residential/rates/standard-residential-rate-plan/green-rates - been on this since they offered it many years ago.
My previous cars were Civic Ex models and my first car was a Sunfire. All my cars were pretty small. That said, I lived a long way from work so I carpooled with 2-3-4 coworkers and burned 240,000 miles in about 6 years. I had to fill up the tiny little 12 gallon gas tank every other day. That can't have been good for the environment. I eventually moved next to my work when $ permitted and lived next to work for almost another 10 years (2 miles). That had a massive impact on time spent, money spent, and I'm sure all that fuel not being burned also had an impact.
Now my wife drives our EV to a college 53 miles away 3 days a week - and the stop and go traffic results in tremendous savings for us (brake regeneration). Also charging for "free" at the university is nice when she can find a spot.
I no longer drive and my work is remote (for now).
My perspective - there's always room for improvement but an EV is doing a lot better than a gas car burning 10 gallons of gas every 300-400 miles (my old Civics for example).
What I'm saying is we should be trying to do better than this. Truly renewable rather than just another Earth destructive force.
I see hypocrisy because I know where electricity comes from. My biological father is an electrician. I just don't like that California is being told to turn up AC and not charge their cars. What could go wrong with premature decisions that are based on reliance with China who is using coal?
I'm not trying to fight people but I'm not pro oil. I'm pro not starving people and crashing economies over a source that has its own destruction. Musk is part of the problem too. I give zero exemption to hypocrisy.
This is Why Electric Cars will NOT be the Future!
It's easy to get the sense that electric vehicles are clearly the way of the future just by walking in the town. As a result of Tesla's rapid share price rise, Elon Musk momentarily became
Electric cars are not the future: they cause tremendous pollution. You will never believe this innovation in the automotive world.
Electric cars are not the future: they cause tremendous pollution. You will never believe this innovation in the automotive world. Share I have to tell you that I think like Akio Toyoda, Toyota's number one. He explained that we should expect a major flop in the electric car industry. I hope you...
My wife's driving 3 days a week to university (110 miles M W F) and our grocery shopping on the weekend amounts to about 550kWhr a month according to the app our car uses. 60% is at home on a 110v 15amp line. 24% is at the university on a 20 amp 120v line, rest is free Volta charging at malls. 11% is supercharging. The gas equivalent is supposedly $282 and we're paying around $93 in electricity (university is "free" charging).
Socal Edison discourages 4-9pm usage by making electricity 2x more expensive during those hours. I'm on the electric car rate plan so I pay a little less than most.
My opinion? Los Angeles could not go 100% electric because there just aren't enough places to charge. The complex we live in, it would cost $3600+ to put in a 50amp charger and the owner does not want to even pay half of it (we offered to pay half). Most of the people living closer to LA live in places that do not offer charging. The Tesla superchargers get pretty busy in the mornings and evenings - I've never had to wait more than 15 mins for a charge (50 miles from downtown LA) - it is rare to wait for me. IMO, we'd need tens of thousands of more chargers to account for the 14 million vehicles all converting to electric.
Number of registered automobiles in California 2018 | Statista
The statistic represents the number of registered automobiles in California in 2018.
www.statista.com
https://www.gov.ca.gov/2022/02/25/c...-surpassing-1-million-electric-vehicles-sold/
My wife and I sold both of our 2018 Civics for 1 used 2018 Tesla this year. EVs are out of the price range for a LOT of people.
Interesting: https://www.statista.com/statistics/818462/california-fueling-stations-by-type/ 8,000 gas stations in CA.
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I’m fortunate that I can charge at work. I have a fast charger at home. But if I couldn’t have a charger at home, I’d not feel comfortable buying an EV. I accept not everyone has that luxury, but personally I’d never buy a house without a garage and drive.My wife's driving 3 days a week to university (110 miles M W F) and our grocery shopping on the weekend amounts to about 550kWhr a month according to the app our car uses. 60% is at home on a 110v 15amp line. 24% is at the university on a 20 amp 120v line, rest is free Volta charging at malls. 11% is supercharging. The gas equivalent is supposedly $282 and we're paying around $93 in electricity (university is "free" charging).
Socal Edison discourages 4-9pm usage by making electricity 2x more expensive during those hours. I'm on the electric car rate plan so I pay a little less than most.
View attachment 2057908
My opinion? Los Angeles could not go 100% electric because there just aren't enough places to charge. The complex we live in, it would cost $3600+ to put in a 50amp charger and the owner does not want to even pay half of it (we offered to pay half). Most of the people living closer to LA live in places that do not offer charging. The Tesla superchargers get pretty busy in the mornings and evenings - I've never had to wait more than 15 mins for a charge (50 miles from downtown LA) - it is rare to wait for me. IMO, we'd need tens of thousands of more chargers to account for the 14 million vehicles all converting to electric.
Number of registered automobiles in California 2018 | Statista
The statistic represents the number of registered automobiles in California in 2018.
https://www.gov.ca.gov/2022/02/25/c...-surpassing-1-million-electric-vehicles-sold/
My wife and I sold both of our 2018 Civics for 1 used 2018 Tesla this year. EVs are out of the price range for a LOT of people.
Interesting: https://www.statista.com/statistics/818462/california-fueling-stations-by-type/ 8,000 gas stations in CA.
Yes there needs to be more charging stations. But I guess more petrol stations will make the switch as more people switch to EV’s.
I look forward to this. Though most gas stations where I live are super tiny and can barely support the 2 lanes of 4 fuel stations...
I like the idea of going out and doing my grocery shopping and hopefully get a quarter charge in an hour. The free Volta chargers currently - most are lucky to do 30 amps which almost makes them useless for anything under an hour and they're usually 1-2 for an entire lot so you are extremely lucky if you find an empty one.
Some BRAND NEW Volta chargers near the malls where we live are 50 amps (4-8 spots) and they're always packed. Free for now. Hope to see more of this. I can't imagine this stays free for long tho. The bright advertisement screens are very disruptive too, especially at night.
Yeah, after having a Tesla M3 since February, I'd only encourage an EV only if one has a Level 2 or higher at home. A lot of people I know commuting live in apartment complexes. If it weren't for the Supercharger stations all over CA - I could not get by with 110v charging at home.
We had a tiny little 8 spot Tesla Supercharger put in near where we live but it's always packed (at the edge of all superchargers). lol.
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Both gasoline and lithium-ion batteries can catch afire and burn. Gasoline needs, air, and a spark or flame (high heat) to catch afire, while EV batteries can ignite by high heat. Gasoline can also damage the environment and one's health if spilled, and so the electrolytes used in batteries. in addition, both produce hazardous fumes during a fire. The fumes produced by internal combustion engines as fuel burns also harms the environment, while EV's don't emit hazardous gasses like ICE automobiles do (a plus to EV's). Drilling for oil, natural gas, the ingredients used for batteries, and so on... harm the environment and affect the health of all the people involved in the process as well as those who use these products.
The idea of using any product other than gasoline, diesel, and some other fuels to reduce the amount of emissions from automobiles is a great idea, so I have no issues with EV's regardless. I am not opposed to EV's, but at the same time I don't ignore the fact that at the present time there ins't a battery that is "green." Their lack of emissions is a good thing, but there isn't a way to avoid environmental damage from building batteries, and combatting gasoline fires is quite easy compared to fighting lithium-ion battery fires.
The emissions from the boilers and furnaces used to heat our homes and buildings in a city, all harm the environment, and so does air travel. But see, we humans enjoy living comfortably and aren't going to stop traveling in aircraft that burn fuel and emit a great deal of hazardous gases, all around the world. That fact is that while aircraft emission calculations are done at a regional or national level, the international air travel and transportation emissions aren't added to the total emissions produced.
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For those who may not understand my saying that, "the battery is the largest hurdle to EV's": please understand that I am not opposed to reducing air pollution. EV use is a good idea since EV's don't emit fumes out a tailpipe like ICE automobiles do. However, the batteries being produced today can be quite hazardous. Please put aside your biases when reading the following article about batteries and what has to be done to avoid environmental damage in the near future. This has nothing to do with being against or pro EV, just about the difficulties created by the building and recycling of batteries, plus the solutions. And yes, the article can serve as an advertisement by the person representing a company, but the process of recycling a battery holds true and are widely known throughout the industry.
recyclinginside.com
Electric Vehicle Batteries Recycling: What are the challenges and solutions?
The Earth is facing a climate change crisis which is mostly caused by the release of carbon-dioxide (CO2) into the atmosphere.
recyclinginside.com
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I don't want to be reliant on gas myself but people still do not see the natural gas and coal, the loss of solar energy, the fields destroyed by panels we can't recycle, creatures murdered by blades that can sit useless until the blades go...My wife's driving 3 days a week to university (110 miles M W F) and our grocery shopping on the weekend amounts to about 550kWhr a month according to the app our car uses. 60% is at home on a 110v 15amp line. 24% is at the university on a 20 amp 120v line, rest is free Volta charging at malls. 11% is supercharging. The gas equivalent is supposedly $282 and we're paying around $93 in electricity (university is "free" charging).
Socal Edison discourages 4-9pm usage by making electricity 2x more expensive during those hours. I'm on the electric car rate plan so I pay a little less than most.
View attachment 2057908
My opinion? Los Angeles could not go 100% electric because there just aren't enough places to charge. The complex we live in, it would cost $3600+ to put in a 50amp charger and the owner does not want to even pay half of it (we offered to pay half). Most of the people living closer to LA live in places that do not offer charging. The Tesla superchargers get pretty busy in the mornings and evenings - I've never had to wait more than 15 mins for a charge (50 miles from downtown LA) - it is rare to wait for me. IMO, we'd need tens of thousands of more chargers to account for the 14 million vehicles all converting to electric.
Number of registered automobiles in California 2018 | Statista
The statistic represents the number of registered automobiles in California in 2018.
https://www.gov.ca.gov/2022/02/25/c...-surpassing-1-million-electric-vehicles-sold/
My wife and I sold both of our 2018 Civics for 1 used 2018 Tesla this year. EVs are out of the price range for a LOT of people.
Interesting: https://www.statista.com/statistics/818462/california-fueling-stations-by-type/ 8,000 gas stations in CA.
Also not recyclable...
I almost dislike coming here because if it works for them, the poor could live in the dark. My new stuff is good for the planet even though it's mostly produced by a country that routinely commits atrocities. Buy the accessories separately for the planet. Definitely saves someone, the bank accounts of big tech.
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