Who has or is planning to get an electric car / EV Talk

[Tagbert]

Unfortunately nothing is usual about lithium mining and refinement. Nor about the fact that the grid might crash this winter. California here is demanding them but doing rolling power outages. I still feel that green energy isn’t actually green and is mostly from outside countries. Especially ones who don’t even care about anything but money.

The outages that happen in CA are generally because of wildfires or concern about sparks causing wildfires. Not about insufficient capacity.

Yes, CA does import some electricity… hydro-power from Washington state. The rest of CA’s green energy is generate in the state from Solar, Wind, hydro.

EV batteries are increasingly being built in the United States. Yes, many of the raw materials are imported. There is a lot of effort going into reducing or eliminating some of the problematic materials like cobalt. Lithium is produced in several countries like China, Bolivia, Australia. The US has a large supply of Lithium in the Salton Sea in CA and that will probably be used for EV batteries at some point.

 

[Apple fanboy]

The good news is Lithium can be recycled. Yes it’s not widely done so, but that will change.
Also many EV batteries can be repurposed for home storage for solar panels etc.

 

[Apple fanboy]

All depends on numerous conditions, including the engine's capacity of the vehicle. For example, I have a 2012 Corolla LE that consumes an average of 29 MPG (combined) and 34 MPG highway driving. The tank holds 13.5 US gallons of gasoline, so in ideal road conditions (no headwind, moderate highway speeds, not overloaded with cargo and passengers, etc.), the drive range on 13 gallons of fuel-non stop drive- equals 450 miles. Even if parked with an empty tank, the "reserve" fuel left in the tank would allow me to drive it over 34 miles to a gas station. When I was still working I drove it 50 miles to work/back per day, five times per week, so it was adding around 6 gallons of fuel every other week. I haven't driven this car more than 30 miles in the past two years since my last work retirement, but I do start the motor and let it run for 18 minutes twice per month during the summer, and every day during the winter when the temperatures are colder than -10 degrees F.

If I were to drive this car during the winter, it's mile range would be reduced at least by 20% compared to summer driving. As for the Mini I mentioned, the ICE version is slightly lighter, and in ideal road conditions (as mentioned above), has a much longer drive range (nearly twice) than the electric version. There is a sub-link for the electric mini in the page below (just scroll down the page to the sub-link):

2022 Mini Cooper Review, Pricing, and Specs

The 2022 Mini Cooper has an iconic style and a long list of appearance options that will please individualists, but it gets pricey when you pile on the extras.

www.caranddriver.com

If you were to drive your EV in the city alone, then the drive range would be greater than driving it on the highway, because of regenerative braking. As for avoiding fast battery-power drain with your EV (a few of these measures apply to ICE automobile driving, too):

10 Ways To Boost Your EV’s Range | MYEV.com

Here’s how to get maximum miles every time you hit the road

www.myev.com

I don’t really ever worry about range. It’s a non issue. I drive at the speed limit (which the car tells me!) and charge when I’m at work. I use AC if it’s hot. Not had to use Hester yet (although the heated seats use less juice). But when it gets cold there will be plenty of range to get me to work and back.

 

[AlaskaMoose]

The outages that happen in CA are generally because of wildfires or concern about sparks causing wildfires. Not about insufficient capacity.

Yes, CA does import some electricity… hydro-power from Washington state. The rest of CA’s green energy is generate in the state from Solar, Wind, hydro.

EV batteries are increasingly being built in the United States. Yes, many of the raw materials are imported. There is a lot of effort going into reducing or eliminating some of the problematic materials like cobalt. Lithium is produced in several countries like China, Bolivia, Australia. The US has a large supply of Lithium in the Salton Sea in CA and that will probably be used for EV batteries at some point.

Power generation in CA mostly depends on natural gas. CA also imports a lot of electricity.

California: electricity mix by source 2021 | Statista

Natural gas was the largest source of electricity generation in California in 2021, accounting for nearly half of the power generated in the U.S.

www.statista.com

In relation to Lithium-Ion batteries, other than lithium the materials used are very expensive, and at the present time there aren't better and more abundant materials for the construction of batteries. All the talks about denser and lighter batteries are being explored, so maybe in the future such batteries will exist (?).

 

[Tagbert]

For anyone living in a single-family house (i.e. you have access to charging) and if your travel patterns just take you to standard populated areas (i.e. you're not spending a month exploring Wyoming), you're getting zero benefit from the ICE engine. You're paying more in fueling costs, and you still have all the maintenance associated with ICE.

In the 2.5 years I've owned my Tesla, my maintenance costs have been $35. That was to replace my cabin air filters.

2.5 years is about how long I’m going between oil changes on the Volt right now. it tracks usages and gives you a gauge of oil life remaining. Not saying that this isn’t a maintenance expense, just putting it into perspective. A regular ICEV would need oil changes much more often.

 

[diamond.g]

2.5 years is about how long I’m going between oil changes on the Volt right now. it tracks usages and gives you a gauge of oil life remaining. Not saying that this isn’t a maintenance expense, just putting it into perspective. A regular ICEV would need oil changes much more often.

Yeah oil changes in the Volt are more common when the stupid coolant sensor glitches and prevents you from charging the main pack.... 🤬

 

[HDFan]

The outages that happen in CA are generally because of wildfires or concern about sparks causing wildfires. Not about insufficient capacity.

True, but in rare occasions when all of the Western Grid is stressed due to heat and imports are not possible there have been, and likely will be, rotating blackouts. That is a possibility during this current heatwave.

 

[Tagbert]

True, but in rare occasions when all of the Western Grid is stressed due to heat and imports are not possible there have been, and likely will be, rotating blackouts. That is a possibility during this current heatwave.

View attachment 2049991

similar to the blackouts in other regions, like TX. Large scale weather events can really eff things up in the short term.

 

[AlaskaMoose]

similar to the blackouts in other regions, like TX. Large scale weather events can really eff things up in the short term.

The blackouts will continue through future years because of heatwaves (unless the planet goes through a cooling phase). As the switch from ICE automobiles to EV's take place, the CA leaders better figure ways for producing more electrical power to keep with demand. CA is not going to do it with hydro, solar, and wind power generation alone. Even several nuclear power plants are being decommissioned:

California Declares Grid Emergency, Warning of Blackouts

California officials declared a statewide grid emergency to cope with surging demand for power amid a blistering heat wave, raising the prospect of rolling blackouts.

www.bloomberg.com

 

[HDFan]

The problem isn't just generation, it is also the power Grid.

The U.S. needs thousands of miles of new power lines to bring wind and solar power from prairies and deserts to cities in the transition away from fossil fuels.

The largest windfarm in the U.S. is delayed by problems in building the transmission lines:

How One Family Held a $3 Billion Clean-Power Megaproject Hostage

To squeeze coal and natural gas out of the U.S. energy supply, transmission lines are needed to connect renewable energy to cities. But it’s a complex and personal fight

www.bloomberg.com

 

[diamond.g]

The problem isn't just generation, it is also the power Grid.

The U.S. needs thousands of miles of new power lines to bring wind and solar power from prairies and deserts to cities in the transition away from fossil fuels.

The largest windfarm in the U.S. is delayed by problems in building the transmission lines:

How One Family Held a $3 Billion Clean-Power Megaproject Hostage

To squeeze coal and natural gas out of the U.S. energy supply, transmission lines are needed to connect renewable energy to cities. But it’s a complex and personal fight

www.bloomberg.com

Yeah NIMBY is a big deal in the states WRT stuff like this.

 

[compwiz1202]

Not until the 'fill up time' is addressed.

How does one address this?

Imagine that the new Ford F150 Lightning had a 20kw generator in the hood (instead of having a frunk). That's about 26hp and good for 100A of charging at 240V.

Imagine now that the little engine was multi-fuel and could run on propane or gasoline.

When does the ICE run? It can run on long trips, sporadically even. Leave the house at 100% charge, make your 600 mile trip with out ever stopping for a million hours to recharge, just charge on the go. Then charge overnight at your destination.

It should also solve the towing issue, which immediately kills EV range.

The RAV4 Prime is what I call the first generation of the above format.

Yes, if we could get it and could find somewhere close and fast enough to charge, we would want a hybrid. Would probably barely use gas for work, but could still not worry about charging stations on longer trips. Wish more apartment complexes would add chargers. At least it looks like Giant has added them to all the stores we've gone to.

 

[compwiz1202]

It would take me 10hrs 17mins to get to my work for 8am via public transport. By car it’s about 45 mins to travel 14 miles and about an hour to get home. It’ll be much better when the dual carriageway is finished in 5 years time as it should only take me 15-20mins then.



Uber is overrated in areas where it doesn’t operate or for those of us that couldn’t afford the £50 a day fares it would cost to get to work lol.

I do use it when I visit large cities though, so much easier.

Same we only use Lyft/Uber if we fly somewhere so we don't need a rental

 

[compwiz1202]

Y

The problem isn't just generation, it is also the power Grid.

The U.S. needs thousands of miles of new power lines to bring wind and solar power from prairies and deserts to cities in the transition away from fossil fuels.

The largest windfarm in the U.S. is delayed by problems in building the transmission lines:

How One Family Held a $3 Billion Clean-Power Megaproject Hostage

To squeeze coal and natural gas out of the U.S. energy supply, transmission lines are needed to connect renewable energy to cities. But it’s a complex and personal fight

www.bloomberg.com

Yea CA is already having issues so they ask people to not use power. I said this months ago they were doing it backwards. You need to go grid > stations > vehicles, not the other way

 

[Tagbert]

Y

Yea CA is already having issues so they ask people to not use power. I said this months ago they were doing it backwards. You need to go grid > stations > vehicles, not the other way

Those plans to stop registering ICEVs are for 13 years from now! That just sets a goal to push for the expansion of the power generation, grid upgrades, and charging stations. You can’t just do the other things, wait 13 years and then announce “no mo gas, everybody”. These things take planning. This is more than just some headlines.

[edit: “can’t” not “can”]

 

[Apple fanboy]

Those plans to stop registering ICEVs are for 13 years from now! That just sets a goal to push for the expansion of the power generation, grid upgrades, and charging stations. You can just do the other things, wait 13 years and then announce “no mo gas, everybody”. These things take planning. This is more than just some headlines.

8 more years here in the UK.

 

[xraydoc]

Yeah oil changes in the Volt are more common when the stupid coolant sensor glitches and prevents you from charging the main pack.... 🤬

Sold my Volt and my wife's Volt due to increasing mechanical issues. I bought a Tesla Model 3LR. Wife chose a Subaru CrossTrek.

 

[diamond.g]

Sold my Volt and my wife's Volt due to increasing mechanical issues. I bought a Tesla Model 3LR. Wife chose a Subaru CrossTrek.

Biding time for an electric truck for my wife.

 

[Huntn]

Are the chickens coming home to roost? This is not meant as a troll post, I’ve heard these things from sources who may completely be talking out their asses.

• Save gas, buy an electric car! (I accept this )
• In one case $30k to replace a battery. (unverified)
• Batteries right into the landfill? (unverified)
• More harm to the environment manufacturing batteries, than the benefit of relatively low emissions.
• Don’t charge your car as it will stress the electric grid on this hot day. (unverified)

 

[PatrickCocoa]

Are the chickens coming home to roost? This is not meant as a troll post, I’ve heard these things from sources who may completely be talking out their asses.

• Save gas, buy an electric car! (I accept this )
• In one case $30k to replace a battery. (unverified)
• Batteries right into the landfill? (unverified)
• More harm to the environment manufacturing batteries, than the benefit of relatively low emissions.
• Don’t charge your car as it will stress the electric grid on this hot day. (unverified)

I've owned electric cars for six years (since 2016). Regarding point 5, even on "this hot day" you can still recharge your car at night. This is because peak demand comes in the day, and the demand at night can be easily met even for charging electric cars.

Of course, this pretty much requires that you own a house and have wired it for charging an electric car. There are several life situations that are not conducive to owning an electric car, if you fall into one of these then: don't buy an electric car.

I'm baffled by what will happen in the future when people are allowed to buy only electric cars, as many (most?) people have life situations that are not conducive to the electric car life. But that's not what you asked, and is discussed (or more accurately, monologued) in other places in this thread.

Regarding point 2, I've never had to replace the battery in any of my electric cars.

Have a nice day, enjoy your life!

 

[xraydoc]

Biding time for an electric truck for my wife.

Chevy Equinox EV looks to be a very interesting vehicle.

 

[FNH15]

Would love to buy an EV, but there aren’t any fun-to-drive RWD sport sedan / coupe EVs yet which fit my criteria:

• Excellent built quality (so the Tesla Model 3 is out)
• Not ugly (so no BMW i4)
• Reasonably priced (as much as I love the Lucid Air, I can’t afford a $200K EV. Yet

Don’t see the point in getting a hybrid when EVs are the future. Also proper RWD hybrids are far and few between, and the ones that do exist aren’t worth the trade-off factoring in depreciation and a limited lifespan.

I’ll keep driving my 2009 335i until then. Can’t wait for Alfa / Mazda / Mercedes etc. to launch their sport sedans!

 

[HDFan]

With numerous posts praising Tesla here I am a bit confused about the enthusiasm based upon all of the reports of customer support, quality, and repair issues - ignoring any feelings about Musk. The latest came just 8 days ago:

Disgruntled Tesla Owners Go on Hunger Strike Over Car Faults

The protesters called on Tesla boss Elon Musk to pay attention to the multiple car faults they had reported.

www.newsweek.com

 

[Apple fanboy]

Are the chickens coming home to roost? This is not meant as a troll post, I’ve heard these things from sources who may completely be talking out their asses.

• Save gas, buy an electric car! (I accept this )
• In one case $30k to replace a battery. (unverified)
• Batteries right into the landfill? (unverified)
• More harm to the environment manufacturing batteries, than the benefit of relatively low emissions.
• Don’t charge your car as it will stress the electric grid on this hot day. (unverified)

So to answer your points

• Saving gas or petrol as we call it is definitely a plus. Running costs are significantly lower and in some cases free. Don’t forget also that maintenance costs are significantly lower. No oil to replace. No spark plugs to replace. Brake discs last much longer. Service intervals are every two years etc.
• In one case? Mmmm. Yes the battery is expensive. But realistically they come with a long warranty (8 years on mine) and the number that need replacing is extremely rare. It would be like saying I’m not buying a house because I heard this one guy had subsidence and it cost a lot to repair.
• Batteries can be recycled. But many get reused or repurposed for storing electricity for solar panels at domestic properties for example. As they become more popular the recycling will become more widespread.
• Not going to tell you that the components to make an EV (many of which are the same as an ICE car) are all good. But this view is very popular amongst certain petrol producing companies with lots of influence in your country. But independent studies show that after two years of ownership the average EV has paid for its carbon footprint from its build and is now greener due to the lack of planet killing emissions. Of course some EV’s are better than others. My EV was produced using recycled materials in a factory that uses renewable energy.
• Another common misconception. The vast majority of EV charging occurs at night whilst you are sleeping and the grid is relatively quiet. In the UK at least the chargers you install are smart chargers. So the electricity company can influence when your car is charged. This the grid is not taxed.

Now I know you say it’s not a troll post, but look at your points and apply them to another technology. For example Air Conditioning. They could nearly all be applied to that. Are you advocating people shouldn’t buy AC units as well?
EV’s are not perfect. But they are better than the available alternatives at this point. I’m glad I’ve made the change. I’m yet to find an EV owner who isn’t.

 

[diamond.g]

Chevy Equinox EV looks to be a very interesting vehicle.

We have "reservations" in for the Silverado EV and Cyber Truck. May even put one down for the RAM EV (she likes the RAM 3500 we are borrowing).