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AlaskaMoose

macrumors 68040
Apr 26, 2008
3,597
13,436
Alaska
Although with that being said, it still won't solve 'all' problems. E.g., my wife owns a 2022 4Runner; I own a 2020 Tundra. I suppose we could replace hers with an SUV; but I pull a trailer a few times a year for >300 miles or so, and use my truck all the time in the middle of nowhere where (I've already checked) there are no charging stations. Owning something like an F150 Lightning would require me to go WAY the heck out of my way to charge @ best; and @ worst is flat out unfeasible.
If you have to tow a heavy travel trailer the drive range of the F-150 Lightning will drop to perhaps 100 miles. There are some videos at "youtube" of the electric F-150 towing a trailer next to an ICE truck towing another identical trailer, and the F-150 reached 94 miles. Large travel trailers weight from 4,000 to 6,000 pounds.
 
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Anonymous Freak

macrumors 603
Dec 12, 2002
5,605
1,390
Cascadia
Just bought our fifth electric vehicle.
Rivian R1T at Cedar Crossing.jpeg
Replacing the Tesla we bought used last year to tide us over until this arrived. Humorously the Tesla has *increased* in value significantly, as has the old diesel F-250 this is also replacing. Which means our "out of pocket", after tax incentives, will only be about $10,000. (Add in the cost of the Tesla when we bought it last year, minus 18 months worth of use, and it's still less than $30k.)
 

Apple fanboy

macrumors Ivy Bridge
Feb 21, 2012
57,108
56,162
Behind the Lens, UK
Just bought our fifth electric vehicle. View attachment 2049026 Replacing the Tesla we bought used last year to tide us over until this arrived. Humorously the Tesla has *increased* in value significantly, as has the old diesel F-250 this is also replacing. Which means our "out of pocket", after tax incentives, will only be about $10,000. (Add in the cost of the Tesla when we bought it last year, minus 18 months worth of use, and it's still less than $30k.)
I like the colour. Enjoy.
 
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Kung

macrumors 6502
Feb 3, 2006
485
496
But if you only need to tow 2-3 times a year, I’d say you are better off hiring a truck on those few occasions and driving a smaller car the rest of the year.

I only tow a 'heavy' trailer 2-3x a year, but tow my 14' trailer tons of times a year, and use the bed quite often.
 

diamond.g

macrumors G4
Mar 20, 2007
11,478
2,701
OBX
- vehicle USB ports
- portable battery pack(s)
- solar USB charger
So literal middle of nowhere. Sometimes folks say that, but have access to 120v (or whatever the equivalent is outside the US) and could get some charge when not driving.
 
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Anonymous Freak

macrumors 603
Dec 12, 2002
5,605
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Cascadia
I only tow a 'heavy' trailer 2-3x a year, but tow my 14' trailer tons of times a year, and use the bed quite often.
Similar here. The Rivian should be fine for us. Yeah, we'll have to stop to recharge slightly more often than we would have stopped with our diesel truck, and for slightly longer; but not so much so as to be a nuisance.

Obviously, if I was towing a heavy load *regularly*, for long distances, it would be annoying. A longer-range EV pickup would be better suited for that (upcoming Silverado EV maybe? Shipments-starting-next-year longer range "Max Pack" Rivian?) But for our use case, where towing is always "recreation", and almost never in any kind of hurry, it's just fine.

The smaller trailers are a cargo trailer (the 8' bed of an old International Harvester pickup converted into a cargo trailer) and a small boat trailer (12'.) They're both short enough in height and light enough in weight that they won't be a big hit to rang.e

We used the bed in our old pickup often, but less than once a year did we use it sufficiently that the shorter bed of the Rivian will be a hassle. And we can either figure out another way (cargo trailer we already have, bungee down with the tailgate open, rent a bigger truck,) for those few times. (Our prior truck was an 8' bed F-250 Powerstroke 7.3. The Rivian has a 4.5' bed, but is meant to be used with the tailgate down, which provides a 7' flat surface, although then with no gate, so whatever's in has to be well tied down.)
 

AlaskaMoose

macrumors 68040
Apr 26, 2008
3,597
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Alaska
But if you only need to tow 2-3 times a year, I’d say you are better off hiring a truck on those few occasions and driving a smaller car the rest of the year.
All depends on what you tow with your truck, or by how much you load it. For example, even your EV will discharge the battery faster if you overload it, or if you drive steadily at a very high speed. The drive range of any vehicle, EV or ICE automobile, is reduced if you overload it, drive it very fast, if the tires aren't inflated properly, if you use the AC or heat, etc. In fact, if you don't precondition your EV while it is connected to an outlet before driving it, the driving range is reduced. But ICE automobiles still reach longer driving distances that EV's. This applies to two automobiles with similar aerodynamics and weights, one EV and the other and ICE automobile.

You can also look at the driving ranges of two similarly constructed vehicles, the Electric Mini Cooper, versus its ICE counterpart. To extend the rage of the eMini, it would need a much larger battery, but this in turn would increase its curve weight even more. The most advance EV technology is found in FE automobiles, and the most advanced hybrid technology is found in F1 racing.

Keep in mind that I am not against the USE of EV's, although I am mostly interested in the type of hybrid technology used by Honda, and also in F1 race cars.
 
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diamond.g

macrumors G4
Mar 20, 2007
11,478
2,701
OBX
All depends on what you tow with your truck, or by how much you load it. For example, even your EV will discharge the battery faster if you overload it, or if you drive steadily at a very high speed. The drive range of any vehicle, EV or ICE automobile, is reduced if you overload it, drive it very fast, if the tires aren't inflated properly, if you use the AC or heat, etc. In fact, if you don't precondition your EV while it is connected to an outlet before driving it, the driving range is reduced. But ICE automobiles still reach longer driving distances that EV's. This applies to two automobiles with similar aerodynamics and weights, one EV and the other and ICE automobile.

You can also look at the driving ranges of two similarly constructed vehicles, the Electric Mini Cooper, versus its ICE counterpart. To extend the rage of the eMini, it would need a much larger battery, but this in turn would increase its curve weight even more. The most advance EV technology is found in FE automobiles, and the most advanced hybrid technology is found in F1 racing.

Keep in mind that I am not against the USE of EV's, although I am mostly interested in the type of hybrid technology used by Honda, and also in F1 race cars.
Is that all down to gas is a great means to store energy vs battery? Most ev's have like 2 or 3 gas gallon equivalent of energy locally stored. When put into that perspective I feel like ev's do pretty well.
 

AlaskaMoose

macrumors 68040
Apr 26, 2008
3,597
13,436
Alaska
Is that all down to gas is a great means to store energy vs battery? Most ev's have like 2 or 3 gas gallon equivalent of energy locally stored. When put into that perspective I feel like ev's do pretty well.
Ev's do quite well, specially because they don't produce emission that pollute the air like ICE vehicles. But with the present battery manufacturing technology there isn't a way to produce batteries that are extremely powerful, lightweight, and low cost. The example about the drive range I posted above relating to the "eMini Cooper and its ICE counterpart," the electric one has to have a battery powerful enough for a relatively short drive range. Otherwise this vehicle would be too heavy, and this in turn does not add any benefit to it. What automobile manufacturers can do is to use lighter materials for the chassis, body, and so on. This increases the total cost of the vehicle, but it allows for installing a denser or more powerful battery. Still, fuels allow for longer drive ranges, but the problem is that internal combustion engines emit fumes.

Now, hybrid vehicles offer longer drive ranges than both EV's and ICE automobiles as you can see in F1 racing.
 

Apple fanboy

macrumors Ivy Bridge
Feb 21, 2012
57,108
56,162
Behind the Lens, UK
Ev's do quite well, specially because they don't produce emission that pollute the air like ICE vehicles. But with the present battery manufacturing technology there isn't a way to produce batteries that are extremely powerful, lightweight, and low cost. The example about the drive range I posted above relating to the "eMini Cooper and its ICE counterpart," the electric one has to have a battery powerful enough for a relatively short drive range. Otherwise this vehicle would be too heavy, and this in turn does not add any benefit to it. What automobile manufacturers can do is to use lighter materials for the chassis, body, and so on. This increases the total cost of the vehicle, but it allows for installing a denser or more powerful battery. Still, fuels allow for longer drive ranges, but the problem is that internal combustion engines emit fumes.

Now, hybrid vehicles offer longer drive ranges than both EV's and ICE automobiles as you can see in F1 racing.
This is true but the range is slightly deceiving. With an ICE vehicle you buy petrol at intervals (weekly?) and drive until it’s all gone (well nearly!) and you fill up again. Let’s say your range is 350 miles.
With an EV that has a range of say 150-200 real world miles. You just drive it everyday and charge up the bit you have used overnight (or every other night). So it’s always got a tank full so to speak. It’s much more convenient.
The difference is if you have to drive further than your range. But I’d imagine that’s quite rare in the Mini example you quoted. They are not the sort of car people buy with long commutes.
I need to drive further than my range maybe 3-4 times a year. It’s not a big deal. If I was doing longer drives more often I’d have bought a different car.
But I think people need to get past the ICE vs EV range thing. You don’t use them the same way.
 

AlaskaMoose

macrumors 68040
Apr 26, 2008
3,597
13,436
Alaska
This is true but the range is slightly deceiving. With an ICE vehicle you buy petrol at intervals (weekly?) and drive until it’s all gone (well nearly!) and you fill up again. Let’s say your range is 350 miles.
With an EV that has a range of say 150-200 real world miles. You just drive it everyday and charge up the bit you have used overnight (or every other night). So it’s always got a tank full so to speak. It’s much more convenient.
The difference is if you have to drive further than your range. But I’d imagine that’s quite rare in the Mini example you quoted. They are not the sort of car people buy with long commutes.
I need to drive further than my range maybe 3-4 times a year. It’s not a big deal. If I was doing longer drives more often I’d have bought a different car.
But I think people need to get past the ICE vs EV range thing. You don’t use them the same way.
All depends on numerous conditions, including the engine's capacity of the vehicle. For example, I have a 2012 Corolla LE that consumes an average of 29 MPG (combined) and 34 MPG highway driving. The tank holds 13.5 US gallons of gasoline, so in ideal road conditions (no headwind, moderate highway speeds, not overloaded with cargo and passengers, etc.), the drive range on 13 gallons of fuel-non stop drive- equals 450 miles. Even if parked with an empty tank, the "reserve" fuel left in the tank would allow me to drive it over 34 miles to a gas station. When I was still working I drove it 50 miles to work/back per day, five times per week, so it was adding around 6 gallons of fuel every other week. I haven't driven this car more than 30 miles in the past two years since my last work retirement, but I do start the motor and let it run for 18 minutes twice per month during the summer, and every day during the winter when the temperatures are colder than -10 degrees F.

If I were to drive this car during the winter, it's mile range would be reduced at least by 20% compared to summer driving. As for the Mini I mentioned, the ICE version is slightly lighter, and in ideal road conditions (as mentioned above), has a much longer drive range (nearly twice) than the electric version. There is a sub-link for the electric mini in the page below (just scroll down the page to the sub-link):

If you were to drive your EV in the city alone, then the drive range would be greater than driving it on the highway, because of regenerative braking. As for avoiding fast battery-power drain with your EV (a few of these measures apply to ICE automobile driving, too):
 
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Septembersrain

Cancelled
Dec 14, 2013
4,347
5,451
Usually folks say more range and faster charging.

Unfortunately nothing is usual about lithium mining and refinement. Nor about the fact that the grid might crash this winter. California here is demanding them but doing rolling power outages. I still feel that green energy isn’t actually green and is mostly from outside countries. Especially ones who don’t even care about anything but money.
 

diamond.g

macrumors G4
Mar 20, 2007
11,478
2,701
OBX
Unfortunately nothing is usual about lithium mining and refinement. Nor about the fact that the grid might crash this winter. California here is demanding them but doing rolling power outages. I still feel that green energy isn’t actually green and is mostly from outside countries. Especially ones who don’t even care about anything but money.
I thought green energy was mainly (more quickly) renewable. So far we don't have a rechargeable energy storage solution with higher energy density than Lithium based batteries.

We could try hydrogen fuel cells, though you are going to have the some production issues since 90+% is made from methane. Splitting water requires a lot of energy and is fairly expensive.
 

cyb3rdud3

macrumors 601
Jun 22, 2014
4,144
2,832
UK
61853987-36C3-4C01-AE84-088D314B5BA2.jpeg

Longer range and faster charging. I drive for my family vacations, so an EV right now is a no for my family.
The range of as good as any model on the market is long than what my bladder has. Charging is done whilst you take that wc stop no problem.

I did a 4K Km trip across 8 countries in our Polestar EV. No problems at all using it for a family holiday 🤷‍♂️
 
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StaceyMJ86

macrumors demi-goddess
Sep 22, 2015
8,479
14,903
Washington, DC
The range of as good as any model on the market is long than what my bladder has. Charging is done whilst you take that wc stop no problem.

I did a 4K Km trip across 8 countries in our Polestar EV. No problems at all using it for a family holiday

Your range sound great. I’m definitely upgrading to a EV in 4 years. There should be more charging stations around by then and hopefully faster charging.
 

diamond.g

macrumors G4
Mar 20, 2007
11,478
2,701
OBX
Your range sound great. I’m definitely upgrading to a EV in 4 years. There should be more charging stations around by then and hopefully faster charging.
The charging station situation is going to get interesting, in the states, for sure. Demand charges makes standing up fast charging stations super unprofitable.
 
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