Who has or is planning to get an electric car / EV Talk

[AlaskaMoose]

That’s fair. I get subsidised charging. They don’t get charged for the pollution that’s causing havoc on the planet.

The reality of it is that the only way for humans to not pollute is by no existing. The trail of pollution starts from the moment of conception and continues past ones' death. As you sit in front of your computer (this is one of a great number of examples one can think of, and not meant to insult you), take a look at every single objet in the room, including the computer. Every item in the room required materials to be gathered for use, labor to construct, then transporting to the stores and eventually your home. All the materials needed to build your home, the electricity at the electrical outlets, the outlets themselves, the wiring, house plumbing, potable water, boilers or furnaces, the air-conditioner, and on and on...all are there after leaving behind a trail of environments pollution. But the pollution does end there, since even flushing the toilet adds to the pollution. The primary difference between an EV and vehicle that has an internal combustion engine is that that later emits air pollutants. Nothing else. The vehicles are of similar designs, just that each uses a different type of energy for propulsion.

Every one of us wants to live as comfortable as possible. We prefer nice and warm water for shoers, a comfortable bed, nice clothing and footwear, makeup, "toys" of various kinds, good foods, wine, liquor, meds, drugs, good lighting at home, comfortable chairs to sit on, a large screen TV, a MacBook Pro (or two), as much treasures as possible (valuable things), cars, bicycles......pets and pet foods.

 

[Analog Kid]

All it means is that the saying, "there isn't such a thing as a free lunch" is true

You’re conflating “free” and “free for me”. Someone paid for lunch, sure, but it was essentially free to the person eating it.

The reality of it is that the only way for humans to not pollute is by no existing. The trail of pollution starts from the moment of conception and continues past ones' death. As you sit in front of your computer (this is one of a great number of examples one can think of, and not meant to insult you), take a look at every single objet in the room, including the computer. Every item in the room required materials to be gathered for use, labor to construct, then transporting to the stores and eventually your home. All the materials needed to build your home, the electricity at the electrical outlets, the outlets themselves, the wiring, house plumbing, potable water, boilers or furnaces, the air-conditioner, and on and on...all are there after leaving behind a trail of environments pollution. But the pollution does end there, since even flushing the toilet adds to the pollution. The primary difference between an EV and vehicle that has an internal combustion engine is that that later emits air pollutants. Nothing else. The vehicles are of similar designs, just that each uses a different type of energy for propulsion.

Every one of us wants to live as comfortable as possible. We prefer nice and warm water for shoers, a comfortable bed, nice clothing and footwear, makeup, "toys" of various kinds, good foods, wine, liquor, meds, drugs, good lighting at home, comfortable chairs to sit on, a large screen TV, a MacBook Pro (or two), as much treasures as possible (valuable things), cars, bicycles......pets and pet foods.

Were all those extra words and long form nihilism just there to bury the admission that “The primary difference between an EV and vehicle that has an internal combustion engine is that that later emits air pollutants.”?

I think that was precisely @Apple fanboy ’s point…

 

[AlaskaMoose]

You’re conflating “free” and “free for me”. Someone paid for lunch, sure, but it was essentially free to the person eating it.



Were all those extra words and long form nihilism just there to bury the admission that “The primary difference between an EV and vehicle that has an internal combustion engine is that that later emits air pollutants.”?

I think that was precisely @Apple fanboy ’s point…

This is what fanboy said (quoted below):

That’s fair. I get subsidised charging. They don’t get charged for the pollution that’s causing havoc on the planet.

My response relates not only to automobiles, regardless of kind, but to all the pollution we humans cause. Even you could not exist without polluting our planet.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

This is what fanboy said (quoted below):

My response relates not only to automobiles, regardless of kind, but to all the pollution we humans cause. Even you could not exist without polluting our planet.

I think it’s fair to say in some hotels those with EV’s get a better deal than those of us who don’t. That’s all AFB was suggesting.

 

[Apple fanboy]

So EV’s are only one part of the solution for a greener planet. The other solutions are probably a discussion for another thread.

 

[edubfromktown]

Not yet... recently purchased a 6-spd manual transmission vehicle.

Assuming I continue living in an area with abundant charging, the next auto purchase will likely be electric.

 

[960design]

The near meltdown of the power grid in so many places across the country in the last few days is a stark reminder that our electric infrastructure is not ready for massive electric car adoption, as much as we might need it. In my area the electric company was begging customers to reduce usage voluntarily to avoid a blackout, and several areas in the US did have rolling blackouts and some full blackouts. Just imagine what it would be like if electric car adoption was higher. We desperately need to upgrade our electric infrastructure if widespread adoption is to be successful.

It costs 1 lightbulb running 10 hours ( old school, 100 watt ) to charge my car on a normal day. On a big drive it costs 5 lightbulbs running all day. While my car does have an impact on the grid, it is not nearly as big as media would have you believe.

I completely agree that infrastructure improvements are greatly needed around the world. We currently have the technology to make electricity cost less than a penny a kwh and future technology that may make it free. Blackouts are created by continually voting the same people in office. Pick someone new, either side, does not matter, just vote for someone different to start the change.

 

[960design]

I was going to get the electric cars,
but the you_tubes forbidden me to!

My only regret is not getting it sooner. Getting over you_tubes is tough though, I have been there, still fighting the fight.

 

[960design]

I’ve always seen an electric car and home solar as a package deal. Instead of getting a $50k EV, consider a $25-$30k EV and a ~$15-20k home solar setup. Or a fancier EV + home solar if you can afford it.

It’s not the right solution for everyone, but with some planning and commitment it’s a great option for many looking at EVs

I think every home in the US should be topped by Solar. This would be have a dramatic impact on grid performance, capacity and resilience during extreme events ( like bad weather, power station hacking or just an angry person with a gun ).

Gunfire on N.C. substations causes widespread power outages

A rural North Carolina county declared a state of emergency after an attack on two power substations that police say "wasn't random."

www.eenews.net

 

[960design]

I hope they extend it another ten years as we are nowhere near ready for so many EV’s on our roads as the infrastructure isn’t good enough, and neither is the technology. I couldn’t afford an EV to the standard I am used to with an ICE car either. I know most will probably have to lease as they’ll have no choice, but based on right now and what I’ve seen over the last 7 years, I’m not convinced.

We may get a hybrid in the meantime as I know from experience they are a really good introduction and there’s the failsafe on longer trips. We’ve had them as pool cars where I work for years and they’ve been reliable.

Tesla Model 3 will set you back $39,499 with 2023 EV tax credit.
When you through in the benefits of never needing to change the brakes, oil, transmission fluid, radiator fluid and 10x reduction in driving costs ( gas vs electricity ) the benefits just keep getting better.

 

[4sallypat]

Tesla Model 3 will set you back $39,499 with 2023 EV tax credit.
When you through in the benefits of never needing to change the brakes, oil, transmission fluid, radiator fluid and 10x reduction in driving costs ( gas vs electricity ) the benefits just keep getting better.

My $56K incoming '23 Mustang Mach E will cost net $39K after:

• $6K Model year transition private cash offer
• $7.5K Fed tax credit **
• $2K Ford Options cash incentive
• $2K State rebate
• $1K Ford rebate

Before tax, title, reg, etc...

** Thanks to the new IRS rule on NOT including the Destination & Delivery fee, I squeaked in under the $55K max price by a mere $25 !!!

And being delivered before March when the IRS rules on the battery mineral/sourcing has a waiver until then.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

Tesla Model 3 will set you back $39,499 with 2023 EV tax credit.
When you through in the benefits of never needing to change the brakes, oil, transmission fluid, radiator fluid and 10x reduction in driving costs ( gas vs electricity ) the benefits just keep getting better.

I highly doubt you can get a 2023 Tesla Model 3 for £39k in the UK. Add about £20k onto the prices Americans pay and it’s more realistic. That doesn’t save me any money at all, not that I’d buy a Tesla once I’m in the market for an EV. I’ll be buying Japanese or European before I consider a Tesla.

At the moment EV’s are not attractive in terms of cost and that is the only thing I am interested in at this point. I don’t have any car loans and don’t want to be paying £40k+ for a large EV when I’d rather be buying things I enjoy.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

I think every home in the US should be topped by Solar. This would be have a dramatic impact on grid performance, capacity and resilience during extreme events ( like bad weather, power station hacking or just an angry person with a gun ).

I live in a rural area with relatively expensive, relatively unreliable electricity. It is also a place where the dominant political orientation preaches skepticism towards renewable energy. Wind is their biggest enemy but municipal local politicians have continued to propose heavy restrictions on solar on the grounds of nuisance. You can have a yard full of rusting trucks that don't run, or a house clad in tattered Tyvek, but a solar panel is described as an unbearable eyesore to the community.

What I find odd about that is that the very Americans most loudly voicing a desire for less dependence on governments (foreign or domestic) are the same folks resisting the push for everyone to take individual control of at least a substantial portion of their own power generation needs. And this is all completely aside from the environmental arguments.

In a society that depends almost entirely on electricity for modern living, energy independence is one of the greatest 'freedoms' you can secure. At the end of the day distributed generation offers huge collective benefits to our national power grid, and, ultimately, to EV motoring. I can understand people citing up-front cost as a reason not to install their own solar or other renewables right now, but none of the other 'arguments' are convincing or even, frankly, honest.

 

[Apple fanboy]

I live in a rural area with relatively expensive, relatively unreliable electricity. It is also a place where the dominant political orientation preaches skepticism towards renewable energy. Wind is their biggest enemy but municipal local politicians have continued to propose heavy restrictions on solar on the grounds of nuisance. You can have a yard full of rusting trucks that don't run, or a house clad in tattered Tyvek, but a solar panel is described as an unbearable eyesore to the community.

What I find odd about that is that the very Americans most loudly voicing a desire for less dependence on governments (foreign or domestic) are the same folks resisting the push for everyone to take individual control of at least a substantial portion of their own power generation needs. And this is all completely aside from the environmental arguments.

In a society that depends almost entirely on electricity for modern living, energy independence is one of the greatest 'freedoms' you can secure. At the end of the day distributed generation offers huge collective benefits to our national power grid, and, ultimately, to EV motoring. I can understand people citing up-front cost as a reason not to install their own solar or other renewables right now, but none of the other 'arguments' are convincing or even, frankly, honest.

I’d install Solar tomorrow if I had the spare cash. But I’d need to upgrade my 60 year old roof first.
There’s a good thread on it here.

 

[AlaskaMoose]

So EV’s are only one part of the solution for a greener planet. The other solutions are probably a discussion for another thread.

Agree, in this case EV's do not emit fumes out of a tail pipe.

 

[Mega ST]

At least the stink is not where the car is. However even solar panels, batteries and battery ingredients must be made and mined and processed somehow affecting the environment.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

At least the stink is not where the car is. However even solar panels, batteries and battery ingredients must be made and mined and processed somehow affecting the environment.

Everything we do affects the environment, that is why it is called the environment. Even the Amish impact the environment.

 

[Mega ST]

So true. My point was that electric cars are only locally clean. Fumes still can happen elsewhere. If you look at some overpowered battery cars with several hundred horsepowers installed being macho driven the entire "electric equals green"-mantra feels questionable to me.

 

[Apple fanboy]

So true. My point was that electric cars are only locally clean. Fumes still can happen elsewhere. If you look at some overpowered battery cars with several hundred horsepowers installed being macho driven the entire "electric equals green"-mantra feels questionable to me.

True. That’s why I chose a lightweight EV built with a lot of recycled materials. If we just changed ICE vehicles to lighter weight smaller powered engines we would reduce the CO2 emissions massively. But every generation of vehicle adds lots of weight.

The Mk1 Golf weighed 900 kilograms. The Mk8 Golf weighs 1400 kilograms.

It’s not rocket science is it? It gets even worse with those awful SUV’s and pickups that are popular in the US. If you carry extra weight you will use more fuel. That’s true if it’s electric or an ICE.

 

[Mega ST]

Just take your buddies for a shared ride and you double the use and halve the impact sort of whatever you drive.

 

[Apple fanboy]

Just take your buddies for a shared ride and you double the use and halve the impact sort of whatever you drive.

I know you are joking but like most car journeys 95% of mine are alone.

But then 90% of my journeys are to work and back.

 

[adrianlondon]

I know you are joking but like most car journeys 95% of mine are alone.

But then 90% of my journeys are to work and back.

Quit your job. Think of the environment! Why won't anyone think of the environment.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

So true. My point was that electric cars are only locally clean. Fumes still can happen elsewhere. If you look at some overpowered battery cars with several hundred horsepowers installed being macho driven the entire "electric equals green"-mantra feels questionable to me.

Not everyone drives them for green credentials, to be honest. For us, it really wasn't a consideration, we just liked the car. And to some there is no such thing as overpowered We replace our BMW M2C which had about 420Hp, our EV has about 476Hp. My Range Rover Supercharged has more, my BMW E30 has a lot less.

Heck, we even got rid of that silly green badge you get on the number plates in the UK and some other countries. I see no need to tell the world that our car is electric.

 

[danny_w]

Funny you mention the Mustang Mach E as "SUV".
IRS just published the rule on the MME as "CAR/SEDAN".
I'd qualify that the MME is actually a crossover (CUV) due to the unibody construction.

Thus it qualifies for the Fed tax credit only if the MSRP is under $55K.

Mine just happens to come in at $54,975.

A mere $25 and it squeezed thru to get the full $7500 tax credit for 2023 !
View attachment 2136273

Only the base MachE qualifies under this rule.

“MSRP is the retail price of the automobile suggested by the manufacturer, including options, accessories and trim but excluding destination fees. It isn't necessarily the price you pay.”

I am looking at new cars right now and the MachE is a contender as is the Ioniq 5 and several ICE vehicles as well.

EDIT: Sorry I just saw that you didn’t get any options so my bad.

 

[BigMcGuire]

My wife drives about $300-$350 a month in gasoline costs according to the Tesla app. This was the case back when we had gas cars as well. The electricity we use to power her car costs about $98 for a $200-$250/mo savings. When I travelled for work, that was almost 2x but I haven't travelled for work since Covid started (2021?).

Just thinking, out loud...

$350 * $4.30/gal now = 1505 gallons of gasoline a month. 18,060 gallons a year not counting vacation trips.

That's a lot of gasoline not being burned. Yes I realize modern cars are a lot cleaner burning than the past but just thought wise... Oil changes can't be all that friendly either although I think CA does a fairly good job of recycling used automotive oil.

State of California (especially where I am) all the power is mostly CNG and/or renewables. http://www.caiso.com/TodaysOutlook/Pages/supply.html - I pay for the 100% renewable plan on Socal Edison (power company).

That has to be a nice amount of crap not being put in the air.

But yeah, that's not why we went EV. We went EV to save $ on travel costs and because we got rid of 2 cars for 1, it was easier to splurge a little. Always wanted an EV. The 1505 gallons/mo of gasoline not going into the atmosphere every month is very much an afterthought.

My wife always drives on the chill mode and I drive fairly conservatively because it rewards us with much further range. When we first got the Tesla Model 3 LR AWD I really enjoyed the ~3.7 0-60 but now I take off slowly most of the time. lol. Traffic here in CA often rewards us with significant mileage savings on the battery.

Absolutely love seeing how I can use 10-15% of the engine's power to keep up with traffic. lol.

Driving conservatively makes a HUGE difference on tire wear on this car.

Edit: Just want to note that I'm a fan of cars. My friend has a collection of exotic cars and we go on road trips every few months. I am not anti-gasoline cars.