Who has or is planning to get an electric car / EV Talk

[DaveN]

Well, this year my car turns 25 and my truck 24 years old. It looks like they will keep going so I’m not likely to get a new car soon but when I do it will likely be a PEHV. Yes there are those here say “What about when the grid crashes?” Easy, when the grid goes down for a significant time, I’ll be able to use my new vehicle to power my house. A few years ago, the people in Texas would have loved to do that. In fact, it would likely have saved a few lives. The bottom lines are that climate change is happening and there is a limited supply of Dino fuel. Both are undeniable.

 

[Apple fanboy]

Well, this year my car turns 25 and my truck 24 years old. It looks like they will keep going so I’m not likely to get a new car soon but when I do it will likely be a PEHV. Yes there are those here say “What about when the grid crashes?” Easy, when the grid goes down for a significant time, I’ll be able to use my new vehicle to power my house. A few years ago, the people in Texas would have loved to do that. In fact, it would likely have saved a few lives. The bottom lines are that climate change is happening and there is a limited supply of Dino fuel. Both are undeniable.

Not all EV’s can power your house etc. mine doesn’t but I think it’s cool. I expect it to be more common in the future.
Then I can drive to work, charge up for free and power the house when I get home! 😜

 

[AlaskaMoose]

It’s true batteries are heavy. But the way I look at it is I don’t need to carry 500 miles of range around each day when my commute is close to 35 miles each way to your home. Now if I had to go fill up at a petrol station I would never do it 150 miles at a time. But with an EV it charges whilst you sleep or in my case, work in the office. So it works much better than having to go find a petrol station. Especially as I live in the country and our local small independent one is very expensive.

Agree. Most of the people living in the metropolitan areas, or in the surrounding areas have more choices relating to drive range and which type of vehicle to buy. During the summer I drive long distances on fishing, camping trips, or just to take photos of wildlife and things like that. During these outings I drive a pickup truck that has a topper (camper shell) on the trucks bed. I usually take enough food and supplies to spend 3 days and two nights. During the night I sleep on a cot inside the topper. Sometimes I tow a trailer loaded with an utility vehicle (UTV), that I drive far from the roadside. On my fishing trips I have three 90-quart ice chests, food, etc. One ice chest is packed-full of ice that I later use to cover several of the Copper River salmon (king and coho).

I am giving one example or some of the things a great number of Alaska residents do during the summer. A lot of people believe that Americans are in love with large vehicles because fuel is cheap, but in reality trucks are much of utility vehicles one can use for the things I mentioned above, plus to tow a boat-loaded trailer to a sea port or lake, to haul lumber, top soil, a washer and dryer, or a refrigerator, or just to move your belongings to another apartment, etc.

I do understand that if one is living in a metropolitan area having a large truck could at times be inconvenient. But where I live people have trucks not because fuel is cheap, but because they are a necessity.

 

[danny_w]

Well I may be in the market sooner than I thought. My wife and I are retired with 2 cars: 2011 Camry w/130k miles and 2009 Miata w/70k miles. I was not planning on a new car for either of us for a few years yet but my wife’s Camry has some collision damage that she wants fixed but it will cost over half of what the car is worth so it doesn’t make sense. Unfortunately used car prices have come down and new car prices are up (if you can even find one). I can’t afford huge payments which is what I am looking at with high prices and high interest so what am I to do? Sink more money into a car than it is worth?

 

[Apple fanboy]

Agree. Most of the people living in the metropolitan areas, or in the surrounding areas have more choices relating to drive range and which type of vehicle to buy. During the summer I drive long distances on fishing, camping trips, or just to take photos of wildlife and things like that. During these outings I drive a pickup truck that has a topper (camper shell) on the trucks bed. I usually take enough food and supplies to spend 3 days and two nights. During the night I sleep on a cot inside the topper. Sometimes I tow a trailer loaded with an utility vehicle (UTV), that I drive far from the roadside. On my fishing trips I have three 90-quart ice chests, food, etc. One ice chest is packed-full of ice that I later use to cover several of the Copper River salmon (king and coho).

I am giving one example or some of the things a great number of Alaska residents do during the summer. A lot of people believe that Americans are in love with large vehicles because fuel is cheap, but in reality trucks are much of utility vehicles one can use for the things I mentioned above, plus to tow a boat-loaded trailer to a sea port or lake, to haul lumber, top soil, a washer and dryer, or a refrigerator, or just to move your belongings to another apartment, etc.

I do understand that if one is living in a metropolitan area having a large truck could at times be inconvenient. But where I live people have trucks not because fuel is cheap, but because they are a necessity.

As I’ve said before your user case is certainly not especially typical. But agree that EV’s are not for everybody at this stage. But I would say most people could make the change.

Tomorrow I’m off to London. Rather than pop to the petrol station I just plugged in whilst I watched a programme with Mrs AFB. Super convenient.

 

[AlaskaMoose]

Excuses excuses. Whilst the US as one country may have 330M people, the EU which is effectively very similar has 447M people and way more diverse government, cultures, ancient history and so on to deal with. And land mass of europe is actually bigger than the US

That is true, but both the US and Canada have vast regions that are aren't very populated, while the EU nations are in close proximity with each other. And yes, the only thing I see about the EU "diverse governments" is a conglomerate of governments "governing" a great number of cultures, while the US is comprised on numerous cultures under one government.

That said, regardless of nations around the world switching from ICE automobiles to EV's, all depends on the economic state of each nation. The most economical way to forge ahead is always chosen. But if any of you believe that electricity will be cheaper than the existing fuels used for transportation, you are dreaming. Once governments start losing the revenue accrued from taxing the sale of fuels, they will figure a way to "recoup" the loss of revenue by switching to another form of tax. Just read the news about the recent increases in the cost of electricity (Norway, the UK, and so on). The same will happen to the US, starting with CA.

The saying that, "there is not such thing as a free lunch," is always true.

 

[Apple fanboy]

Well I may be in the market sooner than I thought. My wife and I are retired with 2 cars: 2011 Camry w/130k miles and 2009 Miata w/70k miles. I was not planning on a new car for either of us for a few years yet but my wife’s Camry has some collision damage that she wants fixed but it will cost over half of what the car is worth so it doesn’t make sense. Unfortunately used car prices have come down and new car prices are up (if you can even find one). I can’t afford huge payments which is what I am looking at with high prices and high interest so what am I to do? Sink more money into a car than it is worth?

That question is a difficult one.

• With a new car you’ll lose money in depreciation.
• With an old car something always needs fixing.
• With a car in between you lose a bit of depreciation and a few things need fixing.

You can’t win.

 

[danny_w]

That question is a difficult one.

• With a new car you’ll lose money in depreciation.
• With an old car something always needs fixing.
• With a car in between you lose a bit of depreciation and a few things need fixing.

You can’t win.

Exactly but I don’t think my wife would be happy with anything but new. In the past I have always found that buying new was never an issue for the cars that I wanted; a good clean used model would actually cost more in the long run. That may not be the case now however considering what choices I may have to accept. I don’t feel that EVs are quite where I want yet but OTOH I want to do whatever I can for the environment and the future.

 

[DaveN]

Not all EV’s can power your house etc. mine doesn’t but I think it’s cool. I expect it to be more common in the future.
Then I can drive to work, charge up for free and power the house when I get home! 😜

When I was a teen, we lost power at our house for an hour short of two weeks. It was early spring so the temperature was in the 20s at night and 30s-40s °F during the day. Out in the country so no way to get well water. Obviously we survived. We kept the basement warm with a couple catalytic heaters so the pipes wouldn’t freeze. For meals we emptied out the fridge and freezer and cooked things on our camp stove. Slept in sleeping bags and heated the upstairs with our fireplace.

So how would I deal with it today? I inherited and live in the house I grew up in. Still has hydronic heat but more efficient. We had natural gas service when the electricity was out and it would likely be the same again. I already have a system in place. I have two 100 amp hour lithium batteries I use for my camper and a 2000 watt inverter. The furnace uses approximately 500 watts when running. Assuming the furnace is on half of the time, I have about ten hours furnace time with what I have. I do have 300 watts of portable solar panels for recharging so that helps. I do think about getting a small inverter generator to recharge the batteries and run the furnace and fridge during the day and then just use the batteries and inverter at night. A battery in an electric vehicle could be used in a similar way to power just the critical items during an outage. Yes, few evs have high watt outputs but many have enough to run a few necessary things.

 

[AlaskaMoose]

When I was a teen, we lost power at our house for an hour short of two weeks. It was early spring so the temperature was in the 20s at night and 30s-40s °F during the day. Out in the country so no way to get well water. Obviously we survived. We kept the basement warm with a couple catalytic heaters so the pipes wouldn’t freeze. For meals we emptied out the fridge and freezer and cooked things on our camp stove. Slept in sleeping bags and heated the upstairs with our fireplace.

So how would I deal with it today? I inherited and live in the house I grew up in. Still has hydronic heat but more efficient. We had natural gas service when the electricity was out and it would likely be the same again. I already have a system in place. I have two 100 amp hour lithium batteries I use for my camper and a 2000 watt inverter. The furnace uses approximately 500 watts when running. Assuming the furnace is on half of the time, I have about ten hours furnace time with what I have. I do have 300 watts of portable solar panels for recharging so that helps. I do think about getting a small inverter generator to recharge the batteries and run the furnace and fridge during the day and then just use the batteries and inverter at night. A battery in an electric vehicle could be used in a similar way to power just the critical items during an outage. Yes, few evs have high watt outputs but many have enough to run a few necessary things.

I use a Honda 2000IU inverter generator for emergencies. However, since it gets extremely cold in the interior of Alaska, this generator has a heating element that warms the intake air. Otherwise the extremely cold air can damage the the engine. The generator has a 12 VDC output that is designed to charge batteries, but I can always connect a 115-AC charger to the generator's outlet to charge the batteries at a faster rate. I keep the total power load so it does not exceed 75 to 80% of its capacity.
-------------
On another subject, my wife and I drive three vehicles that have required minimum maintenance such as oil changes, windshield replacements, wiper/blades replacements, tires, and things like that:

a. 2001 Silverado truck: Nearly 217,000 miles already. Bought it used about 6-7 years ago for $5,000 when it had 184,000 miles. It has countless hours of idling, since I leave the engine running for hours at a time when taking photos of the Auroras during the cold winter.

b. 2010 RAV4 V6 (my wife's ride): 76,000 miles. Super reliable. Paid $27,000 (lightly used). Lots of idling too (it gets very cold over here)

c. 2012 Toyota Corolla LE: 60,000 miles. Super reliable, and quite economical. Paid $14,000 for it in 2013 (lightly used). Lots of idling too.

Use Mobil 1 oil filters and full-synthetic oil; replace them once per year.

 

[Schismz]

If you and your family are all 300lb plus the best vehicle for you is a bike. 😱

OMG I can't believe you said something so racist, insulting, and anti body-positive! I am outraged, triggered, and extremely upset by your micro-aggression and body shaming. I'm gonna chill for a min and get into a fetal position in my safe space. brb!

Hmmmm, I guess there are a ridiculous number of very fat people.

Source, one of our arbiters of truth!, CDC: 41.9% of the populace is obese.

Just realistically... I don't think the goal is to make EVs more suitable to, or affordable by, poor fat people. I think the goal is to decrease the mobility of poor people and force them to use public transit or just stay at home, and sit in their allocated areas.

Living in the NYC Metroplex, I'm around a crazy amount of people, but even with that I forget the sheer size and population of the US.

I am an EV AND ICE lover. I just love vehicles, all kinds. I think I could easily make the switch to EV and benefit. But right now, I'm not vehicle hunting. I will be looking for EVs going forward. But I can understand the hesitation for some areas in the US. People forget there are areas where we have bad weather, and right now EV Trucks/SUVs that are high enough to handle the weather are in small numbers or are too much money.

I grew up in NYC and I think its the only place I never kept a car. I got one briefly because it seemed like fun, but then discovered I'm busy 200% of the time, all those trips to houses in the country are usually preceded by flights on planes and rental cars anyway ... and then I'm left with a monthly bill for a space in a parking garage that costs more then rent in most cities, and I end up with a car covered in an assortment of dings and dents other people added to it, and why am I even bothering when I take taxis or just walk everywhere I need to go?

That question is a difficult one.

• With a new car you’ll lose money in depreciation.
• With an old car something always needs fixing.
• With a car in between you lose a bit of depreciation and a few things need fixing.

You can’t win.

IDK, past paradigm was very simple: buy a new car every time odometer is about to hit 60K, trade it in, retain 2/3rds of value, buy another car, rinse and repeat. Highly sustainable, problem-free paradigm. In 2021 and 2022 that became: reboot all ICE vehicles with big engines that are going away for 2023, and buy 7-8 yr/unlimited mile warranties so maker of car is obligated to keep super-gluing it together and hoping EV tech will evolve in interim.

Also have a EV, but got it for cool toy factor, not a daily driver. I love tech. Give me the bigger, faster, more shiny, and take my money. I won't complain about Tesla's imaginary timelines 'cuz I already vented, but there's nothing that presently exists as a tangible, actual vehicle I want to buy - only prototypes, hype, spec sheets, and Real Soon Now. No Cybertruck, no Hummer SUV, no... I could go on. Well... whenever it happens, cool. But by then I'll have to jailbreak my car to kick the government out of it. Go figure.

When I was a teen, we lost power at our house for an hour short of two weeks. It was early spring so the temperature was in the 20s at night and 30s-40s °F during the day. Out in the country so no way to get well water. Obviously we survived. We kept the basement warm with a couple catalytic heaters so the pipes wouldn’t freeze. For meals we emptied out the fridge and freezer and cooked things on our camp stove. Slept in sleeping bags and heated the upstairs with our fireplace.

So how would I deal with it today? I inherited and live in the house I grew up in. Still has hydronic heat but more efficient. We had natural gas service when the electricity was out and it would likely be the same again. I already have a system in place. I have two 100 amp hour lithium batteries I use for my camper and a 2000 watt inverter. The furnace uses approximately 500 watts when running. Assuming the furnace is on half of the time, I have about ten hours furnace time with what I have. I do have 300 watts of portable solar panels for recharging so that helps. I do think about getting a small inverter generator to recharge the batteries and run the furnace and fridge during the day and then just use the batteries and inverter at night. A battery in an electric vehicle could be used in a similar way to power just the critical items during an outage. Yes, few evs have high watt outputs but many have enough to run a few necessary things.

I get it, I live it, it's all around me. I'd seriously consider buying a Generac and connecting it to a 500-1000 gallon propane tank and connect whatever workstations & hardware can't lose power to a UPS because the Generac will take 10-12 seconds to catch the house before it kicks in. For like $200 or something -- I forget what it cost, but it was very minimal -- can add full-house surge suppressor to system. Combined with Starlink, temporary rural apocalypse becomes an abstraction because absolutely nothing has changed in your world/house, and everything will keep going for 2-3 weeks before you need to refill propane. You do not need to run around connecting this to that, figuring out what to prioritize, or wasting your time with continuous "emergencies" when power goes out and its cold. Generac also has "extreme cold environment" pkg for another $200/$250. Very happy with all of it, It Just Works, even @ -20F which is coldest I've experienced so far.

Generac also has solar panel arrays, chargers for EVs, etc ... but, solar panels cannot supplant conventional fuel sources yet; only augment them & act in a supportive role to theoretically decrease overall cost. Unsure how geothermal plays out in the real world, but interested in learning.

I'll shut up, last few messages have wandered over to house surviving "the grid" going offline vs. EV topic

 

[DaveN]

I use a Honda 2000IU inverter generator for emergencies. However, since it gets extremely cold in the interior of Alaska, this generator has a heating element that warms the intake air. Otherwise the extremely cold air can damage the the engine. The generator has a 12 VDC output that is designed to charge batteries, but I can always connect a 115-AC charger to the generator's outlet to charge the batteries at a faster rate. I keep the total power load so it does not exceed 75 to 80% of its capacity.
-------------
On another subject, my wife and I drive three vehicles that have require minimum maintenance such as oil changes, windshield replacements, wiper/blades replacements, tires, and things like that:

a. 2001 Silverado truck: Nearly 217,000 miles already. Bought it used about 6-7 years ago for $5,000 when it had 184,000 miles. It has countless hours of idling, since I leave the engine running for hours at a time when taking photos of the Auroras during the cold winter.

b. 2010 RAVF4 V6 (my wife's ride): 76,000 miles. Super reliable. Paid $27,000 (lightly used). Lots of idling too (it gets very cold over here)

c. 2012 Toyota Corolla LE: 60,000 miles. Super reliable, and quite economical. Paid $14,000 for it in 2013 (lightly used). Lots of idling too.

Use Mobil 1 oil filters and full-synthetic oil; replace them once per year.

I was looking at the Honda and some others around 2000 watts like yours as the sweet spot for my use. I wouldn't get it for just the house but for camping too. For the Honda, I'd modify it to run on propane too but their are kits for that so not a big deal. That way I can use the propane bottles at the front of my trailer and not have to worry about gas going stale. Oh yeah, I have a 120VAC to 12VDC charger that I would use for the batteries too. Much faster than trying to charge using the DC on the generator and I can set the charge parameters to match my batteries.

As for vehicles, I used to joke that my vehicles are old enough to drive. Now I joke that they are old enough to drink and drive. I inherited the car from my aunt so two owners. The truck I bought new so one owner. They keep working just fine so I keep using them. I had a problem with the truck this fall. Injection pump was beginning to fail. At that age you can't get new replacement parts but I had it rebuilt and am good for another 20+ years.

 

[DaveN]

OMG I can't believe you said something so racist, insulting, and anti body-positive! I am outraged, triggered, and extremely upset by your micro-aggression and body shaming. I'm gonna chill for a min and get into a fetal position in my safe space. brb!

Hmmmm, I guess there are a ridiculous number of very fat people.

Source, one of our arbiters of truth!, CDC: 41.9% of the populace is obese.

Just realistically... I don't think the goal is to make EVs more suitable to, or affordable by, poor fat people. I think the goal is to decrease the mobility of poor people and force them to use public transit or just stay at home, and sit in their allocated areas.


I grew up in NYC and I think its the only place I never kept a car. I got one briefly because it seemed like fun, but then discovered I'm busy 200% of the time, all those trips to houses in the country are usually preceded by flights on planes and rental cars anyway ... and then I'm left with a monthly bill for a space in a parking garage that costs more then rent in most cities, and I end up with a car covered in an assortment of dings and dents other people added to it, and why am I even bothering when I take taxis or just walk everywhere I need to go?



IDK, past paradigm was very simple: buy a new car every time odometer is about to hit 60K, trade it in, retain 2/3rds of value, buy another car, rinse and repeat. Highly sustainable, problem-free paradigm. In 2021 and 2022 that became: reboot all ICE vehicles with big engines that are going away for 2023, and buy 7-8 yr/unlimited mile warranties so maker of car is obligated to keep super-gluing it together and hoping EV tech will evolve in interim.

Also have a EV, but got it for cool toy factor, not a daily driver. I love tech. Give me the bigger, faster, more shiny, and take my money. I won't complain about Tesla's imaginary timelines 'cuz I already vented, but there's nothing that presently exists as a tangible, actual vehicle I want to buy - only prototypes, hype, spec sheets, and Real Soon Now. No Cybertruck, no Hummer SUV, no... I could go on. Well... whenever it happens, cool. But by then I'll have to jailbreak my car to kick the government out of it. Go figure.


I get it, I live it, it's all around me. I'd seriously consider buying a Generac and connecting it to a 500-1000 gallon propane tank and connect whatever workstations & hardware can't lose power to a UPS because the Generac will take 10-12 seconds to catch the house before it kicks in. For like $200 or something -- I forget what it cost, but it was very minimal -- can add full-house surge suppressor to system. Combined with Starlink, temporary rural apocalypse becomes an abstraction because absolutely nothing has changed in your world/house, and everything will keep going for 2-3 weeks before you need to refill propane. You do not need to run around connecting this to that, figuring out what to prioritize, or wasting your time with continuous "emergencies" when power goes out and its cold. Generac also has "extreme cold environment" pkg for another $200/$250. Very happy with all of it, It Just Works, even @ -20F which is coldest I've experienced so far.

Generac also has solar panel arrays, chargers for EVs, etc ... but, solar panels cannot supplant conventional fuel sources yet; only augment them & act in a supportive role to theoretically decrease overall cost. Unsure how geothermal plays out in the real world, but interested in learning.

I'll shut up, last few messages have wandered over to house surviving "the grid" going offline vs. EV topic

Yeah, I need to get back on topic too.

 

[Analog Kid]

land mass of europe is actually bigger than the US

Are you sure about that?

Geography of the European Union - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Geography of the United States - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The US seems to have 75% as many people spread over twice as much land.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

Are you sure about that?

Geography of the European Union - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Geography of the United States - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The US seems to have 75% as many people spread over twice as much land.

You are not comparing what I said So yes, I am very sure about what I said.

 

[Analog Kid]

You are not comparing what I said So yes, I am very sure about what I said.

I suppose if you literally meant the mass of the land, I’d have to find another source on soil density, but if by landmass you mean the area of the landmass then the US has twice the area as the EU.

If you’re mixing EU demographics, with land area stats for greater Europe, then you really should clarify that and explain how you’re prorating Russia’s contributions to your argument. Part of Russia accounts for about 40% of Europe.

Compared to all of Europe, the US is about half the population spread over about the same land.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

Exactly but I don’t think my wife would be happy with anything but new. In the past I have always found that buying new was never an issue for the cars that I wanted; a good clean used model would actually cost more in the long run. That may not be the case now however considering what choices I may have to accept. I don’t feel that EVs are quite where I want yet but OTOH I want to do whatever I can for the environment and the future.

Explain to your wife how much a brand new car depreciates once you sign the log book. I know in the last 2 years prices have been unusual with people making money on cars, but usually it’s the opposite. I’d never buy a brand new car personally as I’d rather someone else take the hit. I’ll buy it with a few thousand on the clock and £5k+ cheaper. I think in reality the newest car I’ve bought was 2 years old with 6k on the clock and that car had depreciated £15k from its original purchase price.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

Are you sure about that?

Geography of the European Union - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Geography of the United States - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The US seems to have 75% as many people spread over twice as much land.

I tend to compare Europe rather than the European Union, especially in regards to population. The EU doesn’t include the UK anymore, but we are still European and fall under the same climate initiatives in regards to the deadlines for EV introduction. When you look at the population of Europe (746.6M) and the population of the USA (331.9M), there’s more than double the people in closer proximity.

 

[Apple fanboy]

Explain to your wife how much a brand new car depreciates once you sign the log book. I know in the last 2 years prices have been unusual with people making money on cars, but usually it’s the opposite. I’d never buy a brand new car personally as I’d rather someone else take the hit. I’ll buy it with a few thousand on the clock and £5k+ cheaper. I think in reality the newest car I’ve bought was 2 years old with 6k on the clock and that car had depreciated £15k from its original purchase price.

That’s what I do to.

 

[Matt2012]

Explain to your wife how much a brand new car depreciates once you sign the log book. I know in the last 2 years prices have been unusual with people making money on cars, but usually it’s the opposite. I’d never buy a brand new car personally as I’d rather someone else take the hit. I’ll buy it with a few thousand on the clock and £5k+ cheaper. I think in reality the newest car I’ve bought was 2 years old with 6k on the clock and that car had depreciated £15k from its original purchase price.

The last year has been weird. I sold my 2 year old Tesla Model 3 back to Tesla earlier this year for £47k (it was £51k new) for a new Model 3 (that was £60k new). Just 8 months later, the 'new' Tesla seems to be worth only £39k so that is a huge drop in a short space of time.
Buying a new-ish second hand car has alway been my prefered method too but as a company car in the UK, you need to buy brand new to gets lots of the perks for tax breaks etc.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

The last year has been weird. I sold my 2 year old Tesla Model 3 back to Tesla earlier this year for £47k (it was £51k new) for a new Model 3 (that was £60k new). Just 8 months later, the 'new' Tesla seems to be worth only £39k so that is a huge drop in a short space of time.
Buying a new-ish second hand car has alway been my prefered method too but as a company car in the UK, you need to buy brand new to gets lots of the perks for tax breaks etc.

Oh company cars are different I agree. My wife is ordering a company car this year at some point through Sinclair and it has to be new on their scheme. I think many people would be surprised to see the stats for new cars on the roads in Britain in regards to just how many are private leased or company cars. I think it’s over 70%. Personally I think once 2030 has arrived, the amount of people who own new EV’s will be very small. I’ve read quite a few articles that suggest leasing will become the norm in order for people to be able to afford the transition. Of course there will be cheap, small, low range EV’s around the £5k-£15k mark several years old by then too.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

I suppose if you literally meant the mass of the land, I’d have to find another source on soil density, but if by landmass you mean the area of the landmass then the US has twice the area as the EU.

If you’re mixing EU demographics, with land area stats for greater Europe, then you really should clarify that and explain how you’re prorating Russia’s contributions to your argument. Part of Russia accounts for about 40% of Europe.

Compared to all of Europe, the US is about half the population spread over about the same land.

I'm sorry, but I was perfectly clear in what I said. You changed what I said and started comparing different measurement. That is not my mistake. What I stated what unambiguous and correct.

 

[cyb3rdud3]

The last year has been weird. I sold my 2 year old Tesla Model 3 back to Tesla earlier this year for £47k (it was £51k new) for a new Model 3 (that was £60k new). Just 8 months later, the 'new' Tesla seems to be worth only £39k so that is a huge drop in a short space of time.
Buying a new-ish second hand car has alway been my prefered method too but as a company car in the UK, you need to buy brand new to gets lots of the perks for tax breaks etc.

I don't think there is a once size fits all. I mean if nobody was buying new cars then nobody would be buying second hand cars. The markets are being distorted as well with the latest craze in the UK of the salary sacrifice scheme. The next pending financial scandal.

Me personally I just like to buy our cars outright; sometimes that is brand new, sometimes it is nearly new, sometimes it is a few years old, sometimes it is many decades old

For EV the cars we liked simply aren't smart second hand buys as for a little bit more you can get it brand new. I much prefer that. But we are all different.

 

[JT2002TJ]

Excuses excuses. Whilst the US as one country may have 330M people, the EU which is effectively very similar has 447M people and way more diverse government, cultures, ancient history and so on to deal with. And land mass of europe is actually bigger than the US

You cannot compare multiple smaller nations to one nation. It is much easier for small nations to implement technology, rather than implement it across the vast US.

I don't think you are grasping the vast land size of the US. Notice I didn't just quote the population or just the land size, it is a factor of both. The 3 largest States in the US alone account for most of the main area of Europe:

I lived in TX, if you really want to understand the size of the US, you should drive from eastern most TX to western most TX. I've done the drive from Port Arthur to El Paso which is 834 miles (1,342), this will give you an idea of how big the US is. In this drive you will probably spend 200 miles in cities, the rest is all empty/farmland. TX is MUCH smaller than our largest state Alaska (which is 2x the size of Texas).

My parents live in Florida on 25 acres of land. They only have DSL (1 MB download speeds). Their neighbors (5 of them) have properties much bigger than theirs. Not sure how many middle class people in Europe have land that size, but it would be WAY less than in the US. All of this, makes it difficult to implement technology. A good example is, in order to use their land to route anything (utilities, internet,...) it is a very long process where they have to pay my parents a LARGE sum of money. Where does this money come from?

Here is a map of the continental US overlaid over Europe (not even accounting for our largest state Alaska, Hawaii, and our other territories)

 

[cyb3rdud3]

You cannot compare multiple smaller nations to one nation. It is much easier for small nations to implement technology, rather than implement it across the vast US.

I don't think you are grasping the vast land size of the US. Notice I didn't just quote the population or just the land size, it is a factor of both. The 3 largest States in the US alone account for most of the main area of Europe:

I lived in TX, if you really want to understand the size of the US, you should drive from eastern most TX to western most TX. I've done the drive from Port Arthur to El Paso which is 834 miles (1,342), this will give you an idea of how big the US is. In this drive you will probably spend 200 miles in cities, the rest is all empty/farmland. TX is MUCH smaller than our largest state Alaska (which is 2x the size of Texas).

My parents live in Florida on 25 acres of land. They only have DSL (1 MB download speeds). Their neighbors (5 of them) have properties much bigger than theirs. Not sure how many middle class people in Europe have land that size, but it would be WAY less than in the US. All of this, makes it difficult to implement technology. A good example is, in order to use their land to route anything (utilities, internet,...) it is a very long process where they have to pay my parents a LARGE sum of money. Where does this money come from?

Here is a map of the continental US overlaid over Europe (not even accounting for our largest state Alaska, Hawaii, and our other territories)

And even the source where you got that image from states that Europe is slightly larger

Look, it is not a measuring contest with prizes for me at all who is largest, but the US is verifiably not larger. Sure, there are differences in population density in places, but objectively you can also offset those against other challenges.

The point is that where there is a will, there is a way. And so far, so many join this thread with some far out edge cases or once in a blue moon scenarios. Mainly focussed on reasons why not opposed to looking at how it can work. It is going to happen, it is happening everywhere else, the choice is yours and your governments to vote for and demand the right kind of policies and support to help with the transition.