The EU has done a better job with forcing standardization of charging and paying than the US. Do you know if the EU has demand charges for electricity?And even the source where you got that image from states that Europe is slightly larger
Look, it is not a measuring contest with prizes for me at all who is largest, but the US is verifiably not larger. Sure, there are differences in population density in places, but objectively you can also offset those against other challenges.
The point is that where there is a will, there is a way. And so far, so many join this thread with some far out edge cases or once in a blue moon scenarios. Mainly focussed on reasons why not opposed to looking at how it can work. It is going to happen, it is happening everywhere else, the choice is yours and your governments to vote for and demand the right kind of policies and support to help with the transition.
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Who has or is planning to get an electric car / EV Talk
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That can vary from memberstate to memberstate, and country to country. And even then it can also vary between network operators and thus regions. So I'm not so sure they have actually. And yes there are sometimes demand charges (in the UK more common for businesses) and there are standing charges, lots of charges. But also a postcode lottery; for example where I live it costs extra to upgrade to 3 Phase power in a domestic dwelling (about £16K) but it is free to maximise single phase supply. As we live in border territory the neighbouring area is free to get to 3Phase and it costs to change to a 100A supply.
As such I'd say that part is all over the place. However, there are generally decent policies around home energy certification, there were subsidies to install home chargers, you can get significant lower energy tarrifs when you have smart charging and metering. Planning contains rules around charging provision in new developments and refurbishments. Public charging access has a pretty decent distinction between destination charging and travel charging. No need to get apps for every network, just tap and go. Petrol/Gas station forecourts also provide electricity and more and more are converting. And well established 'old' networks like Tesla superchargers are rapidly opening up for all to use. And then ofcourse there is the charging plug standardisation itself; mainly CCS2 with a little bit CHADEMO. Anything new will ahve the same plug as anything else.
Applying policy is 'easy' and doesn't have to cost much either. I'm not a fan of big government, but this is one of those areas where an adult needs to stand up and just say this is what we are going to do and lead the way.
It is really useful and handy, charging everywhere. Our homecharger is fine, when friends/family arrive they simply use our tethered system as well. Yes, there is a little change in mind set but once used to it, the concept of everyday having a full 'tank', for 90%+ of the time not having to go anywhere to fill up is just wonderful.
The EU did a good job of forcing the change (CSS2) earlier. In the US travel charging networks are not that great mostly because it is hard to make your money back due to demand charges (Tesla SuC network is a loss leader compared to EA and the others).
Charging at home is the bee's knee's though not practical for the folks that don't have a garage (or detached home).
And even the source where you got that image from states that Europe is slightly larger
Look, it is not a measuring contest with prizes for me at all who is largest, but the US is verifiably not larger. Sure, there are differences in population density in places, but objectively you can also offset those against other challenges.
The point is that where there is a will, there is a way. And so far, so many join this thread with some far out edge cases or once in a blue moon scenarios. Mainly focussed on reasons why not opposed to looking at how it can work. It is going to happen, it is happening everywhere else, the choice is yours and your governments to vote for and demand the right kind of policies and support to help with the transition.
And there isn't that much support for such things. If the infrastructure is not there; if the vehicles aren't what people want; or if there are situations where different vehicles are chosen, then what's it to you? Not really different between macOS and Windows or Android vs iOS. You have preferences and other people have different preferences.
I really don't care about appeals to the future as the dates keep getting pushed back.
You cannot compare multiple smaller nations to one nation. It is much easier for small nations to implement technology, rather than implement it across the vast US.
I don't think you are grasping the vast land size of the US. Notice I didn't just quote the population or just the land size, it is a factor of both. The 3 largest States in the US alone account for most of the main area of Europe:
I lived in TX, if you really want to understand the size of the US, you should drive from eastern most TX to western most TX. I've done the drive from Port Arthur to El Paso which is 834 miles (1,342), this will give you an idea of how big the US is. In this drive you will probably spend 200 miles in cities, the rest is all empty/farmland. TX is MUCH smaller than our largest state Alaska (which is 2x the size of Texas).
My parents live in Florida on 25 acres of land. They only have DSL (1 MB download speeds). Their neighbors (5 of them) have properties much bigger than theirs. Not sure how many middle class people in Europe have land that size, but it would be WAY less than in the US. All of this, makes it difficult to implement technology. A good example is, in order to use their land to route anything (utilities, internet,...) it is a very long process where they have to pay my parents a LARGE sum of money. Where does this money come from?
Here is a map of the continental US overlaid over Europe (not even accounting for our largest state Alaska, Hawaii, and our other territories)
One of my brother-in-laws has 100 acres in Vermont. That's not hard to do because the state is empty. My sister bought a piece of land there many years ago and she asked me to help clear it one time. It was overgrown with stuff. I did help but she didn't do anything with it for a year and it was overgrown a few years later. It was the typical mud roads to get to the place. No wonder she has a Subaru.
You can't argue with consumer choices though. You can yell and scream all you want and also predict the future. But, in the end, people make choices, and there are usually good reasons for those choices.
I know for a fact that the last 2 cars that I bought new were cheaper in the long run than buying used. My previous car was a 2001 Lincoln Towncar and after much searching the best that I could go on a used model was a 2000 model with 36k miles (you could not find a used Tc with less miles, people DRIVE those things) for the same price as I paid new ($36k). And my Miata was actually worth more after a few months than I paid for it and is still worth about 70% of its new price ($15.5k) after 13 years. It would seem to make sense that a clean used car is a better deal (and indeed it used to be before used cars got so expensive) but I have never seen that happen in the last 30 or so years.
Twice you’ve said you’re perfectly clear and I’m wrong. I didn’t change anything, I quoted you directly. I’m not trying to be intentionally obtuse here, so if you think what I’m saying is wrong then what you said is not clear or unambiguous to me. I linked my sources. Could you explain why you think your demographics and land mass estimates are are correct and mine are wrong? Not why it doesn’t matter but what exactly you meant and what I missed.
Agree, especially since Europe has lots of other effective transportation options
Singapore is a modern, densely populated country and they moved from third-world to first world in a few decades in the second-half of the 1900s. They generally score near the top in education surveys and GDP per capita rankings. But not in EVs. They conclude that EVs need to get their prices lower or the government needs to offer more incentives for EVs to become competitive.
www.asiaone.com
Why is EV uptake in Singapore still so slow? Let's look at the numbers to find out
Let's talk about EVs, again. While EVs are the future that every carmaker touts, it's plainly evident to anyone here in Singapore that EV uptake is still relatively slow. Based on the IEA's Global Electric Vehicle Outlook 2022 report, electrified car sales in 2021 have tripled in just three...
Singapore is a modern, densely populated country and they moved from third-world to first world in a few decades in the second-half of the 1900s. They generally score near the top in education surveys and GDP per capita rankings. But not in EVs. They conclude that EVs need to get their prices lower or the government needs to offer more incentives for EVs to become competitive.
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View attachment 2136957
Why is EV uptake in Singapore still so slow? Let's look at the numbers to find out
Let's talk about EVs, again. While EVs are the future that every carmaker touts, it's plainly evident to anyone here in Singapore that EV uptake is still relatively slow. Based on the IEA's Global Electric Vehicle Outlook 2022 report, electrified car sales in 2021 have tripled in just three...
It's not surprising considering a vehicle that may cost $25,000 here in the US costs $90,000 in Singapore. Cost of cars in Singapore is sky high.
LOL MA. Fear not Healey will see to it the state has enough electricity to go around. Right after she shuts down the natural gas lines.
We had a municipality when we lived there. We paid about 20% more but service was fantastic. East of 495 there are far more politics when it comes to the energy supplies.
I don't for the life of me understand why they didn't build a new reactor at Pilgrim.
Electricians are making a mint on upgrading the old 50 to 80 amp services to support in home charging stations.
Possibly in a year or two from now, but whatever I get for sure won't be a Tesla.
Drove to London. One quick 20 minute stop and charge. Now at my hotel. Chargers out front all free. This hotel will get my business again for sure.
And land mass of europe is actually bigger than the US
10.2 million sq km vs 9.8 million sq km, Europe is bigger. Only by 0.4 million sq kilometres, but still Europe is factually bigger. That is all I said, and that is factually correct. I am not convinced why it requires so many post against it, or what was so unclear in those few words I wrote.
What you changed is that in your comparison you called out Europe, but compared the land mass of the EU against the US. The EU is a political union which is not the same as Europe, Europe is larger than the EU and includes countries like the UK, Norway, Switzerland and so on.
I hope that helps to clear it up @Analog Kid
That’s pretty much what I assumed here, but you replied with strong disagreement:
What was confusing is that you started by using demographic information of the EU, then land area data for the continent of Europe and compared it to the US. It just got more confusing when I laid out the difference in boundaries you’re describing, but was told I’m still wrong.
Anyway, if you’re just providing random facts, that’s fine, but if you’re trying to form an argument or rebuttal to @JT2002TJ then you really need to use a self consistent set of data. A population density argument based on a population within one boundary and the land area of a different boundary is meaningless.
And national or continental population density statistics are rather meaningless in any event. Population density is lumpy, so what matters is what percent of people live in areas of a given density. By that metric, the US would seem to be more suitable to electric infrastructure:
https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SP.URB.TOTL.IN.ZS?locations=EU-US&view=chart
https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/EN.URB.MCTY.TL.ZS?locations=EU-US&view=chart
The government challenge though is that the US Senate is dominated by rural states and the US policy tends to insist that national providers service rural populations as well. Half of the US Senate represents states totaling less than 20% of the US population. Again, population in those states is lumpy, but it starts to give you an idea of the challenges in creating national government incentives.
There’s also a cultural dynamic— “roadtrips” are a grand US tradition, largely because there’s no other reliable long haul infrastructure short of aircraft. When people think of cars, they think of “the open road”. In reality though, 95% of trips are less than 30 miles:
https://afdc.energy.gov/data/10318
People often buy cars for a purpose they rarely use them for. SUVs have the same mismatched expectation. My hope is that regenerative braking makes electric SUVs suddenly a reasonable choice and people can at least have one of their absurd excesses with far less pollution.
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The idea is to discourage cars as public transportation is outstanding there. But both EVs and ICE cars both have the COE.
Not odd at all.By that definition, my full-size Range Rover is also a crossover
CUV are unibody cars on lifted suspensions.
SUV are separate cab chassis on frames.
Totally different designs.
My F150 Lightning EV truck is a cab on frame design; while the Mustang EV is a CUV (unibody).
Not such thing as free lunch, young man
The hotel does not provide you with "free" electricity. You pay for it with the service they provide you with. Every penny spent by the business is accounted for. The sum of money you pay on your way out includes the use of electricity and other expenses (towels, bedding materials, room service, and so on).
This is Alaska:You cannot compare multiple smaller nations to one nation. It is much easier for small nations to implement technology, rather than implement it across the vast US.
I don't think you are grasping the vast land size of the US. Notice I didn't just quote the population or just the land size, it is a factor of both. The 3 largest States in the US alone account for most of the main area of Europe:
I lived in TX, if you really want to understand the size of the US, you should drive from eastern most TX to western most TX. I've done the drive from Port Arthur to El Paso which is 834 miles (1,342), this will give you an idea of how big the US is. In this drive you will probably spend 200 miles in cities, the rest is all empty/farmland. TX is MUCH smaller than our largest state Alaska (which is 2x the size of Texas).
My parents live in Florida on 25 acres of land. They only have DSL (1 MB download speeds). Their neighbors (5 of them) have properties much bigger than theirs. Not sure how many middle class people in Europe have land that size, but it would be WAY less than in the US. All of this, makes it difficult to implement technology. A good example is, in order to use their land to route anything (utilities, internet,...) it is a very long process where they have to pay my parents a LARGE sum of money. Where does this money come from?
Here is a map of the continental US overlaid over Europe (not even accounting for our largest state Alaska, Hawaii, and our other territories)
How Big is Alaska?
Alaska is bigger than most people realize! To find out how big, simply select your state from the drop down menu, and we’ll show you.www.alaska.org
Canada is quite large, too. Driving from Seattle to Alaska, through Canada, is somewhere near 2,300 miles. Alaska measures 665,384 Sq. miles.
Now, those who want to know the US state-population versus landmass:
How Big is Alaska Compared to the US? Alaska Size Comparisons
How big is Alaska really? We all know it's the largest state in the U.S. but what does that mean. Here's a size comparison to other well-known places.
www.royalalaskanmovers.com
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Still, it was at least subsidized by the non-EV driving guests.Not such thing as free lunch, young man
The hotel does not provide you with "free" electricity. You pay for it with the service they provide you with. Every penny spent by the business is accounted for. The sum of money you pay on your way out includes the use of electricity and other expenses (towels, bedding materials, room service, and so on).
I know, I know. But the boss pays for my accommodation. The hotel charge is the same as the one I usually use that doesn’t have EV chargers. So they have list my business now.Not such thing as free lunch, young man
The hotel does not provide you with "free" electricity. You pay for it with the service they provide you with. Every penny spent by the business is accounted for. The sum of money you pay on your way out includes the use of electricity and other expenses (towels, bedding materials, room service, and so on).
That’s fair. I get subsidised charging. They don’t get charged for the pollution that’s causing havoc on the planet.
Yes unless you are in a big city here, mass transit is a joke. And lately they are making it worse. We need more buses and routes, not less
All it means is that the saying, "there isn't such a thing as a free lunch" is true